Indian ASAT Test

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 390
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby DrRatnadip » 27 Mar 2019 16:10

:D https://twitter.com/bababanaras/status/ ... 30817?s=19
bababanaras posted this mysterious tweet yday.. I wonder if it was related to todays ASAT test.. Anyways it's a proud day for all rakshaks..

Patni
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 10:32
Location: Researching sub-humans to our west!

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Patni » 27 Mar 2019 16:25

Manish_P wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:And just how complex was this you ask?
Answer by Anand Ranganathan:

Our ASAT missile spotted that satellite and DESTROYED it. Successfully.



Noob question - Was it the missile which did the spotting (tracking) or ground based sensors or a combination of both ?


Not an expert but will try and explain as i see it. Please appreciate the loop time from sensor detection to relative speed difference and distance to be covered and working out corrective thruster venting will be in nanoseconds! No missile borne radar & infrared sensors that will have a range beyond 80 to 100 km that also in narrow cone angle of +/- 30 degrees in front. The thing is you have to think of your KKV as a mini satellite that is being sent up to 300KM orbit by space rocket! The timing of launch and first and second stage performance will bring, the till then inert KKV, to within few kilometres to target satellite. I assume it will be lot easier if we think of it as a head on shot in a sense that missile has a velocity of about 3 km/sec ( with ~3 min rocket burn time) with relative speed difference between KKV and target satellite of 10 km/sec . Please note that target is moving at 7.7km/second and missile can only achieve max 3km/second velocity. The second stage will impart up to 3 km /second speed to KKV and bring it up to 300 KM and once there the KKV will fire its own thruster, once its close enough and make needed vectoring to ram into the target satellite.
Edited to correct interception mode.
Last edited by Patni on 28 Mar 2019 10:51, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66606
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 16:28

baba's reach run deep into every domain it seems.

I saw a comment by a JEE aspirant seeking his blessings :rotfl:

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5100
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby jamwal » 27 Mar 2019 16:35

Saraswat crediting NSA Doval in particular during Times Now interview. :D

Noice.

TKiran
BRFite
Posts: 923
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 00:22

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby TKiran » 27 Mar 2019 16:35

@swamy39 Subramaniam Swamy is saying that we shot down satellite which was being used by Pakistan for its air-defence. That's the reason why friendly fire downed JF-17 bundars.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6601
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby habal » 27 Mar 2019 16:38

TKiran wrote:@swamy39 Subramaniam Swamy is saying that we shot down satellite which was being used by Pakistan for its air-defence. That's the reason why friendly fire downed JF-17 bundars.


bandar was day-before-yesterday, satellite shootdown was today.

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 1068
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby sudhan » 27 Mar 2019 16:39

Satellites for Paki air defence? Not sure SSwamy is the authority to refer to for hi-tech military issues..

Patni
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 10:32
Location: Researching sub-humans to our west!

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Patni » 27 Mar 2019 16:44

As per FAQ posted by Ministry Of External Affairs GoI:
II. Which satellite was used?

The satellite used was an Indian satellite


The link is https://www.mea.gov.in/press-releases.h ... March_2019

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1837
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Manish_P » 27 Mar 2019 16:47

Patni wrote:Not an expert but will try and explain as i see it....


Thanks. I had questions about the sensors in the KKV. I tried but could not find any open source information as such. Hoping this thread will reveal nuggets in due course..

Patni wrote:...working out corrective thruster venting will be in nanoseconds!...


Mind boggling the amazing performance & precision required of the sub systems. I now wonder about the anti-ASAT tech which will need to be built into satellites. Perhaps with autonomous early detection and evasion systems.

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1634
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Sid » 27 Mar 2019 16:52

habal wrote:
TKiran wrote:@swamy39 Subramaniam Swamy is saying that we shot down satellite which was being used by Pakistan for its air-defence. That's the reason why friendly fire downed JF-17 bundars.


bandar was day-before-yesterday, satellite shootdown was today.


It’s declared today... which may not mean that it actually happened today. Can anyone look into NOTAM issued indicating this test?

We are yet to see any country cry out debris created in orbit.

rgosain
BRFite
Posts: 412
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby rgosain » 27 Mar 2019 16:54

Where is natsec jeff and all the other open source analysts who are funded by the PRC to do the work that was once the NPA ayatollahs; calling.
By doing this whilst Xi is touring the EU trying to drum up legitimacy for the OBOR/BRI project, this mission makes it clear that the PRC navy will have its satellite connectivity over the IOR disrupted, and with it the overarching C3I archietecture that is required for the prc to make the BRI a reality.

Klaus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2169
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 12:28
Location: Cicero Avenue

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Klaus » 27 Mar 2019 17:01

Sid wrote:
It’s declared today... which may not mean that it actually happened today. Can anyone look into NOTAM issued indicating this test?


No NOTAM needs to be issued for a test like this. Might have been necessary if we used the IAF's services to carry out the test, like the Americans did. I think the PLA in Sindh is now sh#^ting bricks at the thought that they may be completely blind to any hostilities & comms. CPEC just slid further into the abyss. :mrgreen:

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66606
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 17:03



video of the US asat test in 2008 - glimpses of the vast abm/asat infra they had even a decade ago... now its in much higher gear

all the while talking of non-weaponisation, piss and democrazy

Patni
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 10:32
Location: Researching sub-humans to our west!

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Patni » 27 Mar 2019 17:04

Manish_P wrote:
Patni wrote:Not an expert but will try and explain as i see it....


Thanks. I had questions about the sensors in the KKV. I tried but could not find any open source information as such. Hoping this thread will reveal nuggets in due course..

Patni wrote:...working out corrective thruster venting will be in nanoseconds!...


Mind boggling the amazing performance & precision required of the sub systems. I now wonder about the anti-ASAT tech which will need to be built into satellites. Perhaps with autonomous early detection and evasion systems.


No such Anti-ASAT possible! imagine the trust required to move a 1000Kg satellite that is already going at 7.7 Km per second speed its like 1 tonne body going at Mach 22. You can slow it down or speed it up only marginally using thrusters we are talking about few tens of meters per second variations here over 20 to 30 seconds. That is called orbital corrections and are done at periodic interval till availability of gas in thruster tanks. Please note it takes total only 3 min from start to finish for ASAT! No one can have that short a decision to execution cycle for ground based operation and no satellite can have autonomous manoeuvring based on self detection of threat!

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6601
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby habal » 27 Mar 2019 17:05

Sid wrote:It’s declared today... which may not mean that it actually happened today.


refer to manu pubby tweet
https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/11 ... 94944?s=19

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17952
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Karan M » 27 Mar 2019 17:08

Patni wrote:
Manish_P wrote:
Noob question - Was it the missile which did the spotting (tracking) or ground based sensors or a combination of both ?


Not an expert but will try and explain as i see it. Please appreciate the loop time from sensor detection to relative speed difference and distance to be covered and working out corrective thruster venting will be in nanoseconds! No missile borne radar & infrared sensors that will have a range beyond 80 to 100 km that also in narrow cone angle of +/- 30 degrees in front. The thing is you have to think of your KKV as a mini satellite that is being sent up to 300KM orbit by space rocket! The timing of launch and first and second stage performance will bring, the till then inert KKV, to within few kilometres to target satellite. I assume it will be lot easier if we think of it as a tail chase shot in a sense that it will reduce relative speed difference between KKV and target satellite. Please note that target is moving at 7.7km/second and missile can only achieve max 3km/second velocity. What is not stated is that the second stage will impart needed up to 7 km /second speed to KKV and bring it up to 300 KM and once there the KKV will fire its own thruster, once its close enough and make needed vectoring to catch up and ram into the target satellite.


Great post by Patni.
Let me add the remaining missing links.
You will have long range radars, which detect and classify the target. Plus in the future (depending on resources), space borne sensors as well, which feed data back to the ground. The radar information & other sensor data goes to the ground control center, which analyzes the data and parses it based on additional signal processing, data processing for key identification variables. Once the target is selected, it assignes the relevant battery based on availability and suitability. The battery in turn receives the target information, the interception calculations and runs its own parallel algorithms to fine tune them for its interceptors. Then it launches the interceptor, which is datalinked to & receives corrective information from the ground based radars via special datalinks in the missile and with the battery. It monitors its own progress via its onboard navigation suite which will be a combination of inertial navigation and satellite fixes. When it reaches the right height, the 2nd stage is launched, which by itself is the KKV or the KKV sits on the 2nd stage. The KKV then scans for the target, acquires it and goes for it, using its onboard seeker to home for the specific/vulnerable spot programmed into its brain, and the course corrections are done by divert thrusters placed around the KKV. And all this happens in 3 minutes, with as Patni said, a precision of +/- 0.5 microseconds.

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6308
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Dilbu » 27 Mar 2019 17:11

Anti ASAT is possible only for top secret kufr satellites like Riceeater-1 which will wear a lungi in space. Whenever chini ASAT comes near, it will remove the lungi and put it over the ASAT blinding it and will do lungidance in space, now wearing only a striped patta-patti underwear. (Time to go before adminullah bans me)

Barath
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 39
Joined: 11 Feb 2019 19:06

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Barath » 27 Mar 2019 17:13

Why is the foreign ministry putting out FAQs?

Shouldn't this be Defence Ministry (security) putting it out ? Or PMO ? (The Department of Space is under PM's office)

Is the foreign ministry involvement part of a bigger diplomatic push/outreach ? Is it a pointer that any foreign pushback envisaged ?

Normally in sensitive cases, the diplomatic outreach happens before the event(unless by doing so, it acts as a trigger to counteract, or to trigger a counter-push to pressure and prevent the event)

Given the lack of warning about the prime minister's speech before; I would assume that pre-outreach wasn't a big thing.

Perspectives ? Are we over-thinking it ?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19317
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 17:15

sudhan wrote:Satellites for Paki air defence? Not sure SSwamy is the authority to refer to for hi-tech military issues..


says who??

or would you have him comment only on culinary issues??

BTW, aren't you commenting??

aren't we all??

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19317
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 17:17

Barath wrote:Why is the foreign ministry putting out FAQs?

Shouldn't this be Defence Ministry (security) putting it out ? Or PMO ? (The Department of Space is under PM's office)

Is the foreign ministry involvement part of a bigger diplomatic push/outreach ? Is it a pointer that any foreign pushback envisaged ?

Normally in sensitive cases, the diplomatic outreach happens before the event(unless by doing so, it acts as a trigger to counteract, or to trigger a counter-push to pressure and prevent the event)

Given the lack of warning about the prime minister's speech before; I would assume that pre-outreach wasn't a big thing.

Perspectives ? Are we over-thinking it ?


India is still treating this issue as a terrorist thing, different from a military issue.

Hence the MEA.

Barath
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 39
Joined: 11 Feb 2019 19:06

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Barath » 27 Mar 2019 17:25

chetak wrote:
India is still treating this issue as a terrorist thing, different from a military issue.

Hence the MEA.


It doesn't make sense to.

While Pakistan has launched remote sensing satellites on Chinese rockets, the justification for satellites tends to be a far cry from the local terror sensing information or terror push.

And it badly undercuts the MEA own message about the test if it was meant to be a message to Pakistan...

As a military thing., it might make more sense than a terror thing.

rgosain
BRFite
Posts: 412
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby rgosain » 27 Mar 2019 17:30

See it as the fall out from the PRC support of terrorism and the states that promote them, as well as the NSG issue.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2350
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby nam » 27 Mar 2019 17:32

So this is display of our SM2/3 version? 3 stage BMD interceptor.



If the rocket can go 200-300KM up in the sky, our Phase 2 BMD is been built.
Last edited by nam on 27 Mar 2019 17:37, edited 2 times in total.

Patni
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 10:32
Location: Researching sub-humans to our west!

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Patni » 27 Mar 2019 17:33

It is to International audience that GoI is sending information thats why on MEA site! Indians are informed by PM himself and will have follow up briefing by relevant department of GoI. As is most all our DDM are puppets who take its cue from their sugar daddys in being Anti-Indian, so why not answer through MEA!

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1718
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Vips » 27 Mar 2019 18:01

Agni to Mission Shakti, a long-desired capability tested.

Data Points to be noted:

Avinash Chander, former DRDO chief who was instrumental in building the organisation’s missile capabilities said: “This is an extension of the DRDO’s long-range ballistic missile programme of the extra-atmospheric interception. While we had been working on this technology for long, the current programme was initiated some time recently.” (Modi gave the go ahead in 2014)

Scientists with DRDO said the project had not got the final sanction under the previous UPA government

"The work on A-SAT missile had not begun under UPA government. Our scientists had the desire and the capability to develop anti-satellite missile since long, but they were not given clearance from the erstwhile Indian government, Jaitley said. All the work under this project has been done after 2014 after PM Modi gave permission, he further added."

Just note the willful damage done to India's Strategic interests by Congress.

Klaus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2169
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 12:28
Location: Cicero Avenue

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Klaus » 27 Mar 2019 18:04

Just wondering aloud if the IN will be involved in any future ASAT ops as it opens up a whole range of possibilities to counteract PRC's C3I & space infra over the open ocean. Any of the new DDG's or upcoming SSBN's can accommodate BMD's in their silos? I see the next step as a user-trial which has to be one of the three services.

Shivaji
BRFite
Posts: 104
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 09:39

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Shivaji » 27 Mar 2019 18:06

Ofcourse preparation must have been going on since months, possible reason of ASAT test timing in election time given by Baba:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bababanaras/ ... 9770076161

After #BalakotStrike Chinese satellites were tracking our military bases. Specially 2 were focusing on us only. All information shared with Pakistan. So we had to postpone our operations.A strong message is given to China by #MissionShakti
We ll not tolerate ds type of adventure.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5610
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Dileep » 27 Mar 2019 18:07

It is unlikely be a 'tail chase' mode. Reaching 7km/sec in 3 minutes is doubtful.

I miss Arun S and his rocket calculator.

neeraj
BRFite
Posts: 295
Joined: 12 Jun 2001 11:31
Location: UK

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby neeraj » 27 Mar 2019 18:16

^^^
Isnt Arun S in BRF under a different handle

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 1068
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby sudhan » 27 Mar 2019 18:35

chetak wrote:
sudhan wrote:Satellites for Paki air defence? Not sure SSwamy is the authority to refer to for hi-tech military issues..


says who??

or would you have him comment only on culinary issues??

BTW, aren't you commenting??

aren't we all??


:)

A person of his stature can comment on whatever he likes, saar.. provided he has put some time in to learn some things related it.. I would not pick up fight with him on legal matters, he is an expert there..

but..

Tremendous achievement by Namo Govt. It has thrown Pakistan electronic guidance of their jet fighter into blindness. Even Pak airforce jets flying over Pak territory can be shot down by blinded Pak radars. Congratulation to Namo’s l


Aren't we in BRF complaining loudly that we have Journos with absolutely no technical knowledge commenting on hi-tech defence projects.. why is this any different?

Anyway, my last on this.. don't want to derail a thread celebrating an excellent achievement..

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1783
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Kakarat » 27 Mar 2019 18:46

https://twitter.com/Hemant_TNIE/status/ ... 5635346432
#Exclusive First photos of anti satellite missile test fired from Abdul Kalam Island off #Odisha coast today. The #missile shot down a low orbit live satellite making #India a space superpower.


Image
Image

Snehashis
BRFite
Posts: 188
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Snehashis » 27 Mar 2019 18:48

First stage from Agni-IV ?

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 1068
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby sudhan » 27 Mar 2019 18:55

Awesome.. looks like a A5 motor to me..

And the kill vehicle of the PDV riding on top of it.. Neat!

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1614
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby sudeepj » 27 Mar 2019 19:03

First stage is composite.. From k4.

VikramA
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 82
Joined: 29 Aug 2018 15:41

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby VikramA » 27 Mar 2019 19:09

Remarkably all is quiet on international front. No reaction from anyone. Even the rabid neighbor is quiet

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19317
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 19:16

Truthseeker wrote:Remarkably all is quiet on international front. No reaction from anyone. Even the rabid neighbor is quiet


no reaction from any international peoples for any of India's new tech demonstrators etc. They all know that we are not from rabid desert tribe background.

onlee troubled souls are peoples from mandarin and urdu speaking countries.

of course, some mentally unstable peoples from england and the us leftist/naxal cabals will wake up soon enough.

Zynda
BRFite
Posts: 1648
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Zynda » 27 Mar 2019 19:20

Not sure if Baba's Chinese Sat reasoning is true or not, but I shudder thinking of the response from UPA would have been if they were made cognizant of such activities. I bet Armed forces & DRDO would be begging for go ahead to test ASAT missile but GoI (UPA) would be reinforcing the shackles on their wrists further while printing out more & more dossiers. Finally, a Govt which can take tough decisions necessary to address national security concerns & send the required message to concerned parties.

ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 403
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby ricky_v » 27 Mar 2019 19:24

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/pakistan-urges-no-militarization-of-space-after-india-downs-satellite/articleshow/68598867.cms
Space is the common heritage of mankind and every nation has the responsibility to avoid actions which can lead to the militarization of this arena," Pakistan's foreign ministry said in a statement.

"We hope that countries which have in the past strongly condemned demonstration of similar capabilities by others will be prepared to work towards developing international instruments to prevent military threats relating to outer space," it said, without mentioning India by name. "Boasting of such capabilities is reminiscent of Don Quixote's tilting against windmills," it said, in a reference to the delusional hero of the 17th-century Spanish novel by Miguel de Cervantes.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66606
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 19:37

is that the 1st and 2nd stage of K4 in the red part. a bulging "sealed interstage ring" kinda thing is visible when magnifying the image.

if its 3 stage weapon, then it will have a lot more slant range and ceiling than 300km task today. maybe to MEO orbits ... just saying...lot of juicy targets inhabit MEO orbits ... if we knock out the MEO tier of the navigation constellation of any system, I think the higher GSO tiers no longer really work they might be relays of some sort

just saying...

Image

Deans
BRFite
Posts: 841
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Deans » 27 Mar 2019 19:42

My just published book on India fighting a 2 front war in 2022, (see my separate thread on this) coincidentally has India using a ASAT to kill
a Chinese satellite.

Published on Kindle. The paperback is now available. It is currently showing as available on Amazon.com and will take a couple of days on
Amazon.in Kindle link will also show in a search couple of days. Here are the links:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1091617422?re ... _397514860 (link to paperback)
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07Q29P3M1 (kindle)

I've kept it free on kindle unlimited for a limited period.

Part of the proceeds will go the Army battle casualties fund. Please review on Amazon and spread the word.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alhaz, Google [Bot], rahulm, Saral, sgopal, ssaravanan, VickyAvinash, VipinM and 81 guests