Indian ASAT Test

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nam
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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby nam » 27 Mar 2019 19:56

In all the ho-ha.. I missed out that the "meat" of PDV i.e. the kill vehicle and sensor was used in a real life test!

If PDV can knock off satellite at 300KM, it is ready to knock off few other things at those range. Just need big enough fire at it's back.. :D

So a compact booster should take it to 200KM..

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 19:58

Zynda wrote:Not sure if Baba's Chinese Sat reasoning is true or not, but I shudder thinking of the response from UPA would have been if they were made cognizant of such activities. I bet Armed forces & DRDO would be begging for go ahead to test ASAT missile but GoI (UPA) would be reinforcing the shackles on their wrists further while printing out more & more dossiers. Finally, a Govt which can take tough decisions necessary to address national security concerns & send the required message to concerned parties.



The congis and a lot of MEA baboo(n)s have been in mortal fear of the cheeni since 1962, and continued bending over to them in the intervening decades, seeing as to how their dept and favored son had willfully led us into a disaster, so unthinkingly and soullessly and without a clue as to the then existing ground realities.

This was cleverly covered up in hundreds of leftist cabal led, so called "intellectual" foreign policy seminars held in five star hotels where loony papers were presented to justify some idiotic panchsheel policy/treaty which the cheeni had promptly thrown into the garbage even before the ink had fully dried.

The Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, known as the Panchsheel Treaty: Non-interference in others internal affairs and respect for each other's territorial unity integrity and sovereignty (from Sanskrit, panch: five, sheel: virtues), are a set of principles to govern relations between states.

Which of these effing "sheels" has china ever followed?? but it fully expected us to follow and the idiotic MEA mandrins faithfully did follow for decades until this Modi govt came along?? and then there were vehement protests in the MEA that followed before they were forced to abandon the policy with a gun virtually held to their empty baboo(n) heads??

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Kakarat » 27 Mar 2019 19:58

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1110905775952678912
Clearest shot of India’s anti-satellite weapon lifting off — launch platform clearly visible in this picture.

Image

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby nam » 27 Mar 2019 19:59

So actual PDV is 3 staged as well?

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Mar 2019 20:01

300km . Phew! I was worried for a moment there. Pakistan's satellite is at 36000 km, and maintains radio silence. Eat THAT, yindoos!

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby williams » 27 Mar 2019 20:02

Deans wrote:My just published book on India fighting a 2 front war in 2022, (see my separate thread on this) coincidentally has India using a ASAT to kill
a Chinese satellite.

Published on Kindle. The paperback is now available. It is currently showing as available on Amazon.com and will take a couple of days on
Amazon.in Kindle link will also show in a search couple of days. Here are the links:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1091617422?re ... _397514860 (link to paperback)
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07Q29P3M1 (kindle)

I've kept it free on kindle unlimited for a limited period.

Part of the proceeds will go the Army battle casualties fund. Please review on Amazon and spread the word.


Deans Ji, It is strange, I was reading the 3rd chapter of your book yesterday when the PM's announcement came. For a minute I thought, I dozed off and it is just a dream :D

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby srin » 27 Mar 2019 20:05

Btw, the timing is exquisite.

Because there is a closed door Conference on Disarmament happening in Geneva right now :D , discussing a treaty to ban ASAT weapons called PAROS - Prevention of Arms Race in Outer Space (this treaty was mentioned in the MEA FAQ as being discussed since 1982)
https://futurism.com/25-governments-prevent-space-arms-race
Representatives from 25 countries around the world are currently meeting in Geneva, Switzerland to formulate international laws to prevent space-based conflict.

But the meetings, which will continue through March 28, hit a roadblock when the U.S. representative accused China and Russia of undermining the entire process by developing anti-satellite weaponry, according to France 24 — a bad omen for the militarization of space.

http://en.rfi.fr/economy/20190325-space-arms-treaty-should-consider-threat-posed-debris-says-eu
The so-called Big Three appear to want to “weaponise” space on their own terms and, with huge strides in technology made since the Outer Space Treaty (OST) was signed in 1967, the final frontier is up for grabs.


Well, they need to make it Big Four now. We just barged into a few meetings over there which didn't previously include us.

We just have a middle ungli to the entire world.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Dilbu » 27 Mar 2019 20:05

UlanBatori wrote:300km . Phew! I was worried for a moment there. Pakistan's satellite is at 36000 km, and maintains radio silence. Eat THAT, yindoos!

What else do you expect from such a small and lean SDRE mijjile, hainji?

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:07

releasing the very clear images of the launch which rus and cheen never really do is also a clear message to analyze all they want about this system.

its like opening the kimono and showing the "size of goods" down there by a young gorilla.

the older chimps had better watch out.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Karan M » 27 Mar 2019 20:07

Ok, so we werent invited to the meetings and just gate crashed the event.

Oh wait, no, its all politics. It can't be for national goals.

Great find Srin. You have found the missing link.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby srin » 27 Mar 2019 20:08

One question: does this mean we have a credible midcourse intercept capability ?

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Karan M » 27 Mar 2019 20:08

Deans, do you have any stock market tips by any chance. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby srin » 27 Mar 2019 20:12

chetak wrote:The Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, known as the Panchsheel Treaty: Non-interference in others internal affairs and respect for each other's territorial unity integrity and sovereignty (from Sanskrit, panch: five, sheel: virtues), are a set of principles to govern relations between states.

Which of these effing "sheels" has china ever followed?? but it fully expected us to follow and the idiotic MEA mandrins faithfully did follow for decades until this Modi govt came along?? and then there were vehement protests in the MEA that followed before they were forced to abandon the policy with a gun virtually held to their empty baboo(n) heads??


I like Panchsheel and I believe in it being followed by our neighbours. I just don't see why we have to practice it.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 20:12

peoples who have to understand have understood very clearly.

It really does not matter to any of the others except the pakis.

we have just asserted our sovereign right to let our satellites roam where we desire to let them roam.


Mission Shakti: After India’s A-SAT missile test, China hopes nations will uphold ‘peace and tranquility’ in space

Mar 27, 2019

Beijing: China on Wednesday reacted guardedly to India's anti-satellite missile test and expressed hope that all countries will uphold peace and tranquility in the outer space.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday announced that India successfully test-fired an anti-satellite missile by shooting down a live satellite, describing it as a rare achievement that puts the country in an exclusive club of space super powers. The test makes India the fourth country in the world after the US, Russia and China to acquire the strategic capability to shoot down enemy satellites.

Mission Shakti: After India’s A-SAT missile test, China hopes nations will uphold ‘peace and tranquility’ in space

The Chinese Foreign Ministry, in a written response to a question from PTI on India successfully test-firing an anti-satellite missile, said, "We have noticed reports and hope that each country will uphold peace and tranquillity in outer space."

China conducted such a test in January 2007 when its anti-satellite missile destroyed a defunct weather satellite.

Prime Minister Modi said in New Delhi that the action was not directed against any country and the satellite was a pre-determined target orbiting at an altitude of 300 km. He said India did not breach any international laws or treaties by testing the the anti-satellite missile.

Mission Shakti, which was led by the Defence Research and Development Organisation, was aimed at strengthening India's overall security, Modi said in his address that comes a fortnight before the start of the general election.

In New Delhi, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said in a statement that India has no intention of entering into an arms race in outer space. "We have always maintained that space must be used only for peaceful purposes. We are against the weaponisation of Outer Space and support international efforts to reinforce the safety and security of space based assets," the MEA said.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:15

talking about disarmament seems like a industry in the west. it sustains a lot of purses, "experts", Phd students, talk shops, "congressional hearings" and funding streams for sure. .... while the west, china and russia sell the biggest quantity of arms worldwide .... :lol: first light a fire, and then discuss fire extinguisher technology and why others must not use fire.

its not even clear who the 25 govts are in this PAROS conference

http://www.disarmament.ch/events/group- ... d-session/

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:25

microsat-R or microsat-TD was the likely target. other twitters also claim that based on the -R's running out of fuel orbital decay recently

https://thewire.in/space/mission-shakti ... -asat-test

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Karthik S » 27 Mar 2019 20:28

Gurus, should India now work on developing air launched ASAT missile just like US F-15 launched one? Having that capability will give us higher mobility in taking out satellites than ground launched missiles.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:30

https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/reveale ... ptor-test/

karthik, by virtue of size and only 40,000 feet type launch altitude, the AL-ASAT are not adequate .... its a dead end and nobody is chasing it. mobile ground TELARs and in future SLBMs will be it.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby brar_w » 27 Mar 2019 20:30

Karthik S wrote:Gurus, should India now work on developing air launched ASAT missile just like US F-15 launched one? Having that capability will give us higher mobility in taking out satellites than ground launched missiles.


The ASAT triad club :rotfl:

Singha, it is not a dead end but largely redundant if you have a land or sea based capability. The ASM-135 demonstrated a 500+ km altitude AL-ASAT capability back in the 80's using 70's tech. The point is that there is little use for spending money to duplicate capability in this regard if it already exists on land or sea.
Last edited by brar_w on 27 Mar 2019 20:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Karan M » 27 Mar 2019 20:32

I want a MIRV test within the next week. I can dream, can't I. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:33

seems it was not a tail chase intercept but a head on.
this is also what Dileep saar was saying

Image

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2/2
The suggestion is intercept at ~5:40 UT at an altitude of 283 km.
Track and Area Warning + launch site fit well, as you can see. Microsat-r was moving northwards towards Abdul Kalam island.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:34

Image

ramana
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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby ramana » 27 Mar 2019 20:38

Cain Marko wrote:Seriously? If India can shoot down missiles why is a satellite any more difficult? Why now is the big question? Feint to China?



Its much more difficult. Satellites in LEo travel a over 7km/sec. ABM tests on Missiles so far are IRBM i.e. 4km/sec.

Next space has lot of debris and to target own satellite in that cluttered space shows capability.
Third the sat is moving at high speed, the earth is rotating in the meantime.
The ASAT has to take all this into account and hit the moving pellet.
This combination of Agni Booster+ Second Stage+ PDV Mk2 KV can be he basis for a ICBM class missile defense system.
Note the PDV KV had IIR seeker.

nam, PDV is two staged. It has a solid fueled Prithvi class booster

Also interesting is the repeated statement that UPA did not give permission even to proceed let alone test flight.
NaMo got elected in May 2014 and now we have flawless demonstration of ASAT capability in under 5 years.
Speaks volumes of the competence in all areas in DRDO. So far all credit used to go to ISRO.

So the gap is not there but in constantly changing requirements.
The Services should introspect if they are killing innovation by repeated goal post changes on critical defence projects.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby ramana » 27 Mar 2019 20:40

TKiran wrote:Gurus, this is a question from absolute layman about space and technology...

Isn't it better to develop Laser technology to burn the satellite, than using a KKV? Please pardon me for such a silly question..



Atmosphere distorts light beams. And you need a lot of power to focus on the satellite.

BTW you are famous in India for disrupting threads with layman/silly questions.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Bart S » 27 Mar 2019 20:45

nam wrote:So this is display of our SM2/3 version? 3 stage BMD interceptor.



If the rocket can go 200-300KM up in the sky, our Phase 2 BMD is been built.


Not only go up that distance but acchieve kinetic kill with pinpoint precision.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby srin » 27 Mar 2019 20:47

Singha wrote:microsat-R or microsat-TD was the likely target. other twitters also claim that based on the -R's running out of fuel orbital decay recently

https://thewire.in/space/mission-shakti ... -asat-test


Okay ... why is there still tracking showing it ? https://www.n2yo.com/?s=43947

Possibly that it is not live tracking but computed. Or it isn't Microsat-R. We just launched it 2 months ago.

Need to understand better.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 20:51

pretty much conformed from pic the 1st and 2nd stages (red) are filament wound composites not metal ?

now this guy needs burnol on his a$$


@brianweeden
1h1 hour ago
/14 Even the current discussions going on within the UN and CD (this week!) on PAROS are focused on preventing placement of weapons IN space, not ground-based ASAT weapons: http://www.disarmament.ch/events/group- ... ace-paros/


brianweeden

@brianweeden
1h1 hour ago
/15 The major treaty on the table, the PPWT pushed by Russia and China, would not ban ground-based ASATs or tests, as pointed out by @raji143 and @ponder68: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2575/1

brianweeden
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/18 So unfortunately the prospects for States to take any action on this are slim, but a ban on future kinetic ASAT testing would still be good (but not as good as 15 years ago) :((

brianweeden
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/19 But there is another interesting angle, and that's the role of the commercial sector. Lots of smallsat companies are launching on PSLVs, which is a big source of revenue for India: :shock:

brianweeden

Verified account

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1h1 hour ago
/20 More tests like this risk creating #spacedebris that could impact commercial business models for space, plus many of these #newspace companies feel strongly about social responsibility.

brianweeden
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/21 So I wonder if any commercial space companies are willing to take a stand on this and boycott the PSLV to send a message to India? Corporate social responsibility anyone? /fin :rotfl: :mrgreen: :twisted:

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby DrRatnadip » 27 Mar 2019 20:54

ramana wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Seriously? If India can shoot down missiles why is a satellite any more difficult? Why now is the big question? Feint to China?



NaMo got elected in May 2014 and now we have flawless demonstration of ASAT capability in under 5 years.
Speaks volumes of the competence in all areas in DRDO. So far all credit used to go to ISRO.

So the gap is not there but in constantly changing requirements.
The Services should introspect if they are killing innovation by repeated goal post changes on critical defence projects.


Exactly my thoughts sir.. I can only imagine how much progress we will be doing Modi sir's next term.. I even feel that after 2014 our forces have become more receptive of Indian goods.. sabotaging of Indian products seem to be reduced now..

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 20:55

twitter


NASA graphic of the space-objects field (including satellites & debris totalling 740,000. The halo signifies the LEO objects. Among these was an Indian satellite travelling at 29,000 kmph.

Our ASAT missile spotted that satellite and DESTROYED it. Successfully.

Let that sink in.



Image

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Vips » 27 Mar 2019 20:59

nam wrote:So this is display of our SM2/3 version? 3 stage BMD interceptor.

If the rocket can go 200-300KM up in the sky, our Phase 2 BMD is been built.


Avinash Chander has said that this test is an extension of the DRDO’s long-range ballistic missile programme of the extra-atmospheric interception.

What is sure to be next - The long awaited Endo-Exo ABM test :twisted:
It would be fantastic if we demonstrate the interception of a missile each in endo and exo range simultaneously.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 21:04

Image

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 21:08

Fits with the NOTAM


twitter


The most likely target of India's #ASAT test was Microsat-r (2019-006A). Analysis shows the test must have happened near 5:40 UT when the sat was moving northwards towards Abdul Kalam:

Image

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Kakarat » 27 Mar 2019 21:08


Zynda
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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Zynda » 27 Mar 2019 21:13

I guess Microsat-R was launched specifically for this purpose? May be in reality, the sat never had any useful on-board payload. Cause I think it was placed in orbit just recently (Jan 24, 2019)....kinda surprising that such a young sat was chosen as the target.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 21:25

Zynda wrote:I guess Microsat-R was launched specifically for this purpose? May be in reality, the sat never had any useful on-board payload. Cause I think it was placed in orbit just recently (Jan 24, 2019)....kinda surprising that such a young sat was chosen as the target.



twitter


this is MICROSAT-R


Image

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Karan M » 27 Mar 2019 21:27

Zynda, what you are suggesting requires an incredible amount of forethought, careful planning & quick execution. Can brown people do all this? I have my doubts. I am an avid NYT reader, and according to them, brown folks can barely think for themselves. *Chirp chirp*. Could it be this Microsat-R also captured telemetry which it beamed back to earth? No, perish the thought, it was Indian. And NYT knows Indians are an inferior race, who can't do such things.

Chetak, the caption should be, this was Microsat-R.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby sudhan » 27 Mar 2019 21:30

NewsX had this pic, not sure from where they sourced it..

Image

1. Shows ~6 mins to intercept from launch...
2. IIR on the seeker, like in PDV
3. Most probably the swordfish radar was in use for detection, classification of target as hostile took abt 30 secs, wonder how it is done

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby disha » 27 Mar 2019 21:35

^Wrong picture. Where is the second stage to separate from?

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2019 21:36

perhaps there is a SQL database back end with all known satellite and debris orbits in mathematical format, and a engine which can be queried with certain parameters like time, position x,y,z to match ...... generates macthing time data from sql db base data and that gives classification.

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Re: Indian ASAT test

Postby disha » 27 Mar 2019 21:37

chetak wrote:
this is MICROSAT-R


The microsat-R in the photograph is one of those small rectangular shiny box strapped down on the lower "shelf" of the payload adapter. The top large one is a different satellite.


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