Chandrayan-2 Mission

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Gautam_2
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gautam_2 » 03 Dec 2019 11:36

desi found lander and informed nasa which promptly took credit, didn't even mention him. just need white man's approval.

naruto
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby naruto » 03 Dec 2019 14:33

^^^, their website does credit him.

arshyam
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby arshyam » 03 Dec 2019 17:02

Gautam_2 wrote:desi found lander and informed nasa which promptly took credit, didn't even mention him. just need white man's approval.

They did credit him. What's with the unnecessary butthurt?


lakshmanM
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby lakshmanM » 03 Dec 2019 18:23

ISRO ignored him, NASA replied. Shouldn't people be more worried about that?

Zynda
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Zynda » 03 Dec 2019 19:41

I could not see any references to him contacting ISRO for them to ignore him. It seems like since he used LRO images to track lander, he thought it was better to contact NASA and they could take it further from there.

Speculation Alert: It is possible ISRO would have spotted the exact location of crashed lander. There were some comments here on BRF by a couple of knowledgeable members about ISRO not being comfortable with releasing images as it would give out some details about sensitive issues like our surveillance imagery capabilities.

somdev
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby somdev » 03 Dec 2019 21:05

NASA/Shanmuga image shows an impact site and a debris field. So Vikram lander had a hard landing and disintegrated upon impact!

Image

Vivek K
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Vivek K » 03 Dec 2019 21:25

Was there no protection around the rover that was housed inside the lander? Was ISRO trying to communicate with the Rover to try to wake it up? Can the orbiter talk directly to the Rover without the lander?

ArjunPandit
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Dec 2019 21:30

lakshmanM wrote:ISRO ignored him, NASA replied. Shouldn't people be more worried about that?

although he did the right thing. but couldnt he publish his findings independently....we also have to factor in that US organizations have much larger budgets and much bigger size....most importantly they are more open and confident about themselves..in india there's always a fear...many times while dealing with some economics time series about India v/s US i have got response from FRB, BLS folks.. and no response from GoI sites contact us and some universities...i wont say chalta hai ..but may be a fear ..why/what is the person tryng to do...
BTW..remember i was saying on this thread that we can identify using the images..and people mentioned that resolution would be low for any meaningful analysis...a good learning for me at least

JayS
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby JayS » 03 Dec 2019 23:28

Zynda wrote:I could not see any references to him contacting ISRO for them to ignore him. It seems like since he used LRO images to track lander, he thought it was better to contact NASA and they could take it further from there.

Speculation Alert: It is possible ISRO would have spotted the exact location of crashed lander. There were some comments here on BRF by a couple of knowledgeable members about ISRO not being comfortable with releasing images as it would give out some details about sensitive issues like our surveillance imagery capabilities.

That sounds like a lot of BS. The images can easily be downgraded to hide real capability. That's a trivial job.


NASA releasing high-quality imagery for crowd-sourced search on them for something of interest is nothing new. I remember to have seen a documentary about the mission they sent to collect asteroid dust. They released very high-resolution images of the dust catching gel slices, so people could locate tiny dust particles in them.

Also, I don't understand, why should that guy have contacted ISRO on it first and not NASA..? Its NASA data he was working on and NASA was the authority to cross verify and confirm. He didn't get there in single attempt, so there was no point in going gaga over it unless NASA has cross-verified. What would ISRO do in this loop..?

Has ISRO released the trajectory data, whatever they had, which could have helped the searchers narrow down...?? I have not seen any mention of it. So asking.

Indranil
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Indranil » 04 Dec 2019 01:17

Gautam_2 wrote:desi found lander and informed nasa which promptly took credit, didn't even mention him. just need white man's approval.

This is hardly the case. NASA gave him full credit for the discovery. Then they described what they did to identify the rest of the debris.

Amber G.
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Amber G. » 04 Dec 2019 07:28

Gautam_2 wrote:desi found lander and informed nasa which promptly took credit, didn't even mention him. just need white man's approval.


Actually Shanmuga Subramanian got pretty nice credit.. *many* *many* were looking for before/after images.. if you see my older posts it clearly shows the magnitude of the task - (it is like finding 1 rupee coin size thing from a a distance a plane/drone flying 1000 meters above the ground in a large 1kmx1km size land littered with rocks in not the ideal lighting. As said before, we had to wait as people were examining millions of before/after images.

One good thing about LRO (LROC) are all the images are available to public (and ISRO) so everyone can help. That is really a nice thing about this project from Nasa.

CY2's's orbit is closer so it has/will have much higher resolution pictures and since now we know the location it will be easy to confirm.

Amber G.
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Amber G. » 04 Dec 2019 07:32

lakshmanM wrote:ISRO ignored him, NASA replied. Shouldn't people be more worried about that?

Sorry but this is kind of silly - "ISRO ignored" part .. NASA's LRO's pictures are in public domain so everyone can look.. more eyes there are easier to see/compare those millions of pictures to see a pixel size difference. (BTW *many* were looking and are happy that someone eventually found it).

Amber G.
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Amber G. » 04 Dec 2019 07:47

Vivek K wrote:Was there no protection around the rover that was housed inside the lander? Was ISRO trying to communicate with the Rover to try to wake it up? Can the orbiter talk directly to the Rover without the lander?

No practical "protection" would have likely helped since the impact velocity was *very* high. (See my earlier posts in September time frame - the velocity of impact is about 75 m/s (260 Km/Hr).) ISRO (and other radio telescopes around the world) were looking any transmission fo lander/rover. ISRO was trying to "wakeup" lander. Orbiter does *not* remain in contact with rover/lander all the time - Earth based radio-telescopes do. Rover can "talk" primary with lander only. Orbiter, of course goes in and out in the communication range of the lander/rover.

Amber G.
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Amber G. » 04 Dec 2019 08:47

ArjunPandit wrote:
lakshmanM wrote:ISRO ignored him, NASA replied. Shouldn't people be more worried about that?

although he did the right thing. but couldnt he publish his findings independently....we also have to factor in that US organizations have much larger budgets and much bigger size....most importantly they are more open and confident about themselves..in india there's always a fear...many times while dealing with some economics time series about India v/s US i have got response from FRB, BLS folks.. and no response from GoI sites contact us and some universities...i wont say chalta hai ..but may be a fear ..why/what is the person tryng to do...
BTW..remember i was saying on this thread that we can identify using the images..and people mentioned that resolution would be low for any meaningful analysis...a good learning for me at least

Few comments:
1 - This was by a joint effort - NASA's LRO/LROC's images are in public domain and thousands of people use it -- many were looking for Vikram. There were *many* reports/joint-efforts - people finding something "intersting" and other better experts looking it, verifying and confirming it.. slow process. These images were from October 15 flyby , and as I posted then it was likely to take months to go through all the millions of the images .
2 - It is quite *hard* to "identify" using images - very hard, difference is literally pixels - you can't really resolve it to see anything other than seeing a dot which was not there before.
3 - See <this> to see before/after images. Gives some idea why not everyone was able to see it right away.

Now perhaps one can see CY2's high resolution camera to see more details since we know the actual location now.

disha
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby disha » 04 Dec 2019 12:19

lakshmanM wrote:ISRO ignored him, NASA replied. Shouldn't people be more worried about that?


Wrong speculation. Nothing of the above sort should be speculated.

Others have already pointed out, but to reiterate:

1. NASA publishes its moon data. Just like ISRO publishes its Mars photos.
2. Shanmugam was keenly interested and worked hard and reported his findings to NASA to x-verify (since it is NASA data to begin with)
3. NASA confirmed and released the right image with appropriate tags (debris/impact points etc)
4. NASA gave Shanumgan credit

ISRO can now look at that area with its C-2 Orbiter and refine Vikram's hard landing further.

somdev
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby somdev » 04 Dec 2019 12:54


Manish_P
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Manish_P » 04 Dec 2019 15:04

Now?

They have said that earlier clearly

Link - https://www.isro.gov.in/updates-archivals

They didn't share the images (of the lander?). Has NASA?

Gerard
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Re: Chandrayan-2 Mission

Postby Gerard » 05 Dec 2019 07:48

Image
Image



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