Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Atmavik » 30 Oct 2019 10:15

Gyan wrote:Sig 7.62x51 is a very accurate rifle. I wonder if Army will use it as DMR also? By equipping it with a scope.

Sig & HK have improved metallurgy of rifles to the extent that standard rifle can be used as LMG & DMR also.

It would be interesting to see if Army equips these rifles with bipods, scopes & other accessories to make more versatile use of this weapon

Also I wonder, if we getting or obtaining better ammunition tech from SIG for manufacturing rounds for this rifle?



yes we are getting the scopes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpHevm-JVg

looks like we are standardizing on sig for frontline soldiers and AK 203 for Army RR, para military, navy and airforce. but isnt 72k order of Sig too small for all infantry?

darshhan
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby darshhan » 30 Oct 2019 12:02

Atmavik wrote:
Gyan wrote:Sig 7.62x51 is a very accurate rifle. I wonder if Army will use it as DMR also? By equipping it with a scope.

Sig & HK have improved metallurgy of rifles to the extent that standard rifle can be used as LMG & DMR also.

It would be interesting to see if Army equips these rifles with bipods, scopes & other accessories to make more versatile use of this weapon

Also I wonder, if we getting or obtaining better ammunition tech from SIG for manufacturing rounds for this rifle?



yes we are getting the scopes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpHevm-JVg

looks like we are standardizing on sig for frontline soldiers and AK 203 for Army RR, para military, navy and airforce. but isnt 72k order of Sig too small for all infantry?


There is a provision for follow on order for these rifles. i.e if the Army is satisfied with Sig's performance.

Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 31 Oct 2019 04:08

IIRC, the para military forces not involved on duties on the border will be equipped with Excalibur and new 7.62 MM assault rifle developed by OFB/IRF.

souravB
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby souravB » 02 Nov 2019 02:35

Sig Sauer NGSW entries with caliber 6.8x51

MG 6.8 & .338 NM SLMAG


SLX-Spear


Interesting to note a mounted optic with LRF.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 02 Nov 2019 11:21

"Sig 7.62x51 is a very accurate rifle. I wonder if Army will use it as DMR also? By equipping it with a scope.
"

The DMR version of the SIG 716 is already in the service with the NSG

ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2019 04:48

ramana wrote:In other words modernize the ammo manufacturing plant with OFB.

Thakur_B and or Gyan,
Where is the 40mm rifle grenade made?
Is it imported?

One more thing is the BPJ and kevlar helmets will be made available to the front line troops of all types: Army, RR, BSF, and CAPF



OFB makes the 40mm grenade in three different models.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 26 Nov 2019 08:38

Sandeep Unnithan reports that ARDE is working on new long stroke 6.8x43 mm rifle, which is consistent with what Saurav Jha had earlier reported about renewed interest in 6.8 mm ammo. This may be linked to the long stroke carbine in works and might be a further development of the same.
Image

This is interesting to note because US Army is also planning to procure 1,00,000 of new 6.8x43 mm rifles for limited fielding before taking a decision on standardising on the new round. The trials are expexted to start soon with all the bidders bringing in their own improved cartidge design. Interestingly, SiG has made advancement in cartridge design for the 6.8 ammo, using steel and brass instead of just brass, allowing up to 50% more pressure than regular cartirdge design.
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https://indiandefenceindustries.in/indi ... -sfweapons

HK416 and baretts likely coming in for the AFSOD.
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Image

After seemingly acquiring a small number of SCAR-H and SCAR-L, another new weapon type has been displayed by NSG, i.e., the SiG MPX (9x19 parabellum). Attach a silencer on this baby with subsonic ammunition and this SMG goes hollywood quiet, and that is no exagerration. It might be possible that NSG is trying out replacements for Sig-550 series and HK MP5 series of weapons with limited adoption, before making a big jump.

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Image
The IAF seems to have an interest in drum magazines suited for Tavor. As tactical as it sounds, drum magazines on bullpups are a very bad idea. Had they not mentioned Tavor, one might have gotten the impression that they were hunting for drum magazines for their Fn-Minimis, which have a famously unreliable magazine feed mechanism. It might be possible that like US marines, they might be exploring using a regular rifle as a replacement for Minimi, replacing them with Hk-416.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Nov 2019 08:13

Image
Image

Indian Army’s Infantry School and College of Military Engineering were the cynosure of all eyes at Def-Connect 2019 where the former showcased its prototype of 5.56 caliber rifle and the latter its full body bullet proof suit. Innovation in the forces eventually getting recognised.


https://www.aviation-defence-universe.c ... mods-idex/

Back from the dead. Insas bullpup configuration as a prototype by IA.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Nov 2019 08:39

Image

Shivalik multi mode grenade in the flesh against the current grenade model in use. It is being produced by the Solar group.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Nov 2019 14:18

Infantry equipment update:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SJha1618/sta ... 0606490624

Wildcraft India has been selected by MoD to make Rucksacks for IA.

Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 30 Nov 2019 21:51

Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image

Indian Army’s Infantry School and College of Military Engineering were the cynosure of all eyes at Def-Connect 2019 where the former showcased its prototype of 5.56 caliber rifle and the latter its full body bullet proof suit. Innovation in the forces eventually getting recognised.


https://www.aviation-defence-universe.c ... mods-idex/

Back from the dead. Insas bullpup configuration as a prototype by IA.


Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.

Karan M
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2019 22:02

Thakur_B wrote:Infantry equipment update:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SJha1618/sta ... 0606490624

Wildcraft India has been selected by MoD to make Rucksacks for IA.


As a long time customer, I am darn happy! Their quality rocks.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2019 22:05

Vips wrote:Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.


So, how do you know the underlying design is faulty and what the Armed forces are doing is wrong? Do you have cent per cent information to confirm either of the above? Meaningless rants add little to the discussion. Improve your post quality.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Dec 2019 07:00

Vips wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image



https://www.aviation-defence-universe.c ... mods-idex/

Back from the dead. Insas bullpup configuration as a prototype by IA.


Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.


Vips ji, the prototype is by IA infantry school. Insas bullpup was rejected donkey years back by IA.
Image

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 01 Dec 2019 11:00

Thakur_B wrote:
Shivalik multi mode grenade in the flesh against the current grenade model in use. It is being produced by the Solar group.


These will eventually replace all the grenades in our inventory correct ?

Thakur ji, do you image of the US multi-mode grenade concept. I saw it some time back (on a twitter post) but cant find it now. They were cylinder shaped and stackable as in 3 could be attached to one other.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 01 Dec 2019 19:16

Thakur_B wrote:
Vips wrote:
Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.


Vips ji, the prototype is by IA infantry school. Insas bullpup was rejected donkey years back by IA.
Image


Thank You sirji. The point i was trying to make was that it is a futile exercise to build something on (INSAS rifle) which has had so many issues, was junked by our forces and is being replaced.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Dec 2019 21:08

Manish_P wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:
Shivalik multi mode grenade in the flesh against the current grenade model in use. It is being produced by the Solar group.


These will eventually replace all the grenades in our inventory correct ?

Thakur ji, do you image of the US multi-mode grenade concept. I saw it some time back (on a twitter post) but cant find it now. They were cylinder shaped and stackable as in 3 could be attached to one other.


There's a Norwegian company making those and it is used by some US SF teams.

Image

Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 02 Dec 2019 10:13

^ Yes. Those look like it.

It was just a point of interest.

Thanks.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Dec 2019 17:21

http://epaper.mailtoday.in/c/46428002

Sandeep Unnithan reports that SPG is buying small number of JVPC. This would be a big stamp of approval from a premiere organisation.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Bala Vignesh » 03 Dec 2019 16:31

Thakur_B wrote:http://epaper.mailtoday.in/c/46428002

Sandeep Unnithan reports that SPG is buying small number of JVPC. This would be a big stamp of approval from a premiere organisation.

Amazing news if true!! Would help boost the image of the weapon over all!!

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 03 Dec 2019 16:44

The earlier CRPF order of 10,000 is also mentioned.

Foreign arms dealers haven't infiltrated CAPF's and Home Ministry, so these services can place orders based on what meets their requirements.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Bala Vignesh » 03 Dec 2019 16:48

Wouldn't this make more sense for the CISF's Airport security group too? Wonder if they have evaluated it and if so what their observations were?

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 03 Dec 2019 18:09

tsarkar wrote:The earlier CRPF order of 10,000 is also mentioned.


JVPC is scoring big time with police forces. They don't need full powered cartridge, just sufficient to defeat body armour in worst case scenario, and lugging around a full sized rifle makes no sense.

I expect JVPC orders to exceed 1 lac in coming years.

Foreign arms dealers haven't infiltrated CAPF's and Home Ministry, so these services can place orders based on what meets their requirements.


CAPF have been quicker to Dump INSAS. All you see them sporting are Arsenal AKMs. ITBP has ordered Ghatak and then there are some token orders for trichy AKM as well.

Bala Vignesh wrote:Wouldn't this make more sense for the CISF's Airport security group too? Wonder if they have evaluated it and if so what their observations were?


CISF have ordered unknown numbers of JVPC.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby darshhan » 03 Dec 2019 19:48

Thakur_B wrote:
tsarkar wrote:The earlier CRPF order of 10,000 is also mentioned.


JVPC is scoring big time with police forces. They don't need full powered cartridge, just sufficient to defeat body armour in worst case scenario, and lugging around a full sized rifle makes no sense.

I expect JVPC orders to exceed 1 lac in coming years.

Foreign arms dealers haven't infiltrated CAPF's and Home Ministry, so these services can place orders based on what meets their requirements.


CAPF have been quicker to Dump INSAS. All you see them sporting are Arsenal AKMs. ITBP has ordered Ghatak and then there are some token orders for trichy AKM as well.

Bala Vignesh wrote:Wouldn't this make more sense for the CISF's Airport security group too? Wonder if they have evaluated it and if so what their observations were?


CISF have ordered unknown numbers of JVPC.


This is actually interesting. From what I have seen CAPf's including CRPF are outfitted better than Indian Army including weapons. Proves that IA's procurement system is a mess and grip of dalal mafia is very strong.

However BSF did mess one deal. Beretta carbine deal. Only God knows why the hell BSF needed a 9mm carbine. That too in such substantial quantities.


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