Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

A look into joint Finn-Swede small arms replacement programs.
https://corporalfrisk.com/2021/11/06/ai ... nt-target/
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: The AK74 had limitations.
Nyet. Rifle is fine.

Although, SiG550 and Fn-FNC are the best AK 'inspired' rifles out there.
Thakur_B the AK74M with the polymer replacement of wood etc still does not have decent options for optics etc. Or am I mistaken?
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

That is where an upgrade to the base rifles for optics and other attachments should have done the trick.

Still the AK 74 family has an optics mounting rail system. It's not picatany. It's on the left has side of the dust cover. Similar to how the sight of SVD is mounted.

This sight system is compatible with the sights of the RPG 7 as well. It was used by red army during the Afghan war. As an improvised solution. Because it was slightly offset. .
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thanks Pratyush.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Thakur_B wrote:

Russian Zenitco AKM upgrade kit also known as the AK Alpha build. This is used by Russian special forces over the last decade or so. The kit is held in place on trunnion with friction fit and the dust cover is hinged on to lower hande guard.

It is far lighter and less bulky than FAB upgrade kits we have been using. Russia has millions of Ak74 lying around in storage that they have been modernising with kits like these. Now compare Mk1C or R2 with this.
ks_sachin wrote:
Thakur_B the AK74M with the polymer replacement of wood etc still does not have decent options for optics etc. Or am I mistaken?
Pratyush wrote:That is where an upgrade to the base rifles for optics and other attachments should have done the trick.

Still the AK 74 family has an optics mounting rail system. It's not picatany. It's on the left has side of the dust cover. Similar to how the sight of SVD is mounted.
Zenitco kits from Russia are known to be absolutely best AKM upgrade options.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Atal pistol by Astr Defence.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... 8189/lite/

CBC - SSS Defence JV to become functional by year end.
MKU has been winning contracts in Brazil for supply of Vests and NVDs.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Thakur_B wrote:

The AK 12 is just a makeup job on the AK74M. The rails on handguard are kinda wonky and have considerable flex, making it unsuitable for mounting optics.

The word on the street is that the new magazines lack the durability of older AKM magazines.

The handguard has been designed as such to fit the older UBGL.

In short AK74 with zenitco kit, which is used by Russian SF is better than AK 12.

AK 203 being essentially similar to Ak12 barring a few downgrades, the writing on the wall is a bit ominous .
I watched it just now. The title is click Bait. The conclusion is that the gun is not as good as it could have been. That is mostly because of the length of the front hand guard.

The second issue is the gas block along with non removable piston coupled with corrosive ammunition.

The third issue is the selector lever and the fact that it can be moved more than intended. This IMO is a QC issue.

IMO, the gun can be fixed relatively easily provided the manufacturing company will listen to the troops feedback.

IMO again, they did not need to build the AK 12. The AK74 with update kit, that you had linked above would have been sufficient.

I guess it was built to preserve the industrial capacity.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... ad-weapon/
Army chooses Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon
News about the US army competition for the new intermediate calibre squad weapon.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

SiG's choice of ammunition and a conventional layout of the rifle sealed the deal for them. Added advantage is that the MCX series was designed from the ground up to be compatible with AR lowers. That is good engineering and business ingenuity.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

So when are we changing over to 6.8 Thakur ji?
6.8 INSAS ID!!
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

ks_sachin wrote:So when are we changing over to 6.8 Thakur ji?
6.8 INSAS ID!!
:rotfl:

Thankfully I was not having my morning tea.

:rotfl:
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:So when are we changing over to 6.8 Thakur ji?
6.8 INSAS ID!!
:rotfl:

Thankfully I was not having my morning tea.

:rotfl:
Sirji come to Bangalore and have filter coffee. Then you will really feel guilty if you make a mess...
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Sure, next time I am in Bangalore.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ks_sachin wrote:So when are we changing over to 6.8 Thakur ji?
6.8 INSAS ID!!
Just ike SiG MCX upper is compatible with AR15 lowers, SiG MCX Spear upper should be compatible with AR10 lowers.

So, anytime IA brass will get the idea to change SiG716i calibre.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »



It seems that there is a campaign about the AK12.
Kakarat
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/151 ... 1SwcWju9ng
First consignments of #MadeInIndia upgrade kits for the Indian Army's AK-47 rifles have been delivered to Para Special Forces units.
Image

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... Ym-fBmIguw
BREAKING: UPGRADE Kits for AK rifles used by Indian Army's Special Forces from
@sssdefence shipped today.
Image
Image
mody
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by mody »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/pa ... 8aae8ce947

SSS defense upgrade for the AK series rifles.
Wonder why the same kind of upgrade cannot be used for the Trichy TAR and do away with the AK-203 buy from Russia. The upgraded gun will be on par or better than the basic AK-203 that we are to get from the Russians.
Anujan
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »

^^^
The upgrade contract size is for 47 rifles so far.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Anujan wrote:^^^
The upgrade contract size is for 47 rifles so far.
Must be a very select group to get this largess!!!!!
Anujan
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »

Sorry misremembered the number. It is 24. From last year.

https://theprint.in/defence/bengalurus- ... 7s/759716/
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the Bengaluru-based SSS emerged as the lowest bidder for the tender for upgrading 24 AK-47 rifles in service with a particular unit.
Its a teeny weeny order, hardly merits a news article.

But I hope this is a new beginning, and just like how we are (probably) turning a corner in Arty (with a combination of danda, and import cancellation), I hope we build a domestic small arms industry.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

The earlier version of SSS Defence AKM SOPMOD had rails up to gas block and used flip up sights.

It may seem unnecessary, but to c clamp the gun, the forward hand has to be as far as possible. With AKM, the original iron sights being so low, c clamping the gun will obscure the iron sights.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »



Another video on the AK 12.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Anujan wrote:Sorry misremembered the number. It is 24. From last year.
Slow day in the news room.
Plus 24 Indian SF is like enough for all manner of mischief!!!
Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

@Thakur_B can SSS make a full rifle now that they no longer have the partnership with LMT
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Atmavik wrote:@Thakur_B can SSS make a full rifle now that they no longer have the partnership with LMT
Do they have the tooling?
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

They have been an automobile components manufacturer for a long time and also a vendor to OFB for various small arms components. Unless they are going for stamped construction of firearms, they don't require any specialised tooling which they wouldn't already posess except barrel forging equipment.
Last edited by Thakur_B on 24 Apr 2022 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/202 ... -pakistan/

The POF BTW 20 is progressing. Good sensible thinking modernising the G3.
Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

6 Types of Gun from SSS Defense for Indian Army

sajaym
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by sajaym »

With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle Order
https://thewire.in/security/with-snags- ... ifle-order
With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle OrderThe supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.62x51 mm rifles had been abandoned following several "operational glitches" which had surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir.
Absolutely moronic state of affairs.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

sajaym wrote:With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle Order
https://thewire.in/security/with-snags- ... ifle-order
With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle OrderThe supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.62x51 mm rifles had been abandoned following several "operational glitches" which had surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir.
Absolutely moronic state of affairs.
joke....
Anujan
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »

sajaym wrote:With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle Order
https://thewire.in/security/with-snags- ... ifle-order
With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle OrderThe supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.62x51 mm rifles had been abandoned following several "operational glitches" which had surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir.
Absolutely moronic state of affairs.
Why? We didnt do summer trials, winter trials, monsoon trials, trails in rajasthan, ladhakh etc because these rifles were made by gora sahibs?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

I know it's the Print (so standard disclaimers apply).

The article says the problem was due to jamming caused by defective locally produced ammunition causing barrel bulges. (Imported ammunition having been expended by our troops - without any issues? )

Deja vu anyone ?

Then it goes on to say that a major issue was the absence of optics as these were not ordered along with the rifles.

How would that be a problem with the rifle itself?
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Manish_P wrote:I know it's the Print (so standard disclaimers apply).

The article says the problem was due to jamming caused by defective locally produced ammunition causing barrel bulges. (Imported ammunition having been expended by our troops - without any issues? )

Snip.....
This makes no bloody sense. The 7.62 NATO round is produced for MMG by the OFB. Those machine guns must be firing millions of rounds per year without any issues with locally procured rounds. We have not seen similar reported malfunctions with those MMG.

But Sig has issues shooting such rounds. I find it difficult to believe.

The issue could be with the firearm itself. Where the individual components lacked the required strength needed to handle the forces generated by the shooting of the gun.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by srin »

sajaym wrote:With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle Order
https://thewire.in/security/with-snags- ... ifle-order
With 'Snags' Reported, Defence Ministry Decides Against Repeating US Assault Rifle OrderThe supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.62x51 mm rifles had been abandoned following several "operational glitches" which had surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir.
Absolutely moronic state of affairs.
Quoting from the article ...
The local ammunition also generated a higher recoil or kickback in the rifles compared to that produced by Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 variants or the indigenously developed Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56×45 mm assault rifles that Indian Army troops had employed for decades.
I'm incredibly surprised to know that full power round produces more recoil than an intermediate round. Who would have thunk it ? :lol:

Though it is only the local rounds, mind you. If we import the rounds also, the recoil will disappear. So, let's import a few dozen million rounds, so the sunk cost of the rifles will be salvaged.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

This is a text book case of DDMities.

The issue is guns themselves. Not with locally procured ammunition. If the Indian army required NATO 7.62. it will be met by an Indian designed and produced weapon.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

This article is written by Rahul Bedi. He used to write for Jane's. I think people at BRF don't have a high opinion of him.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

srin wrote:..

Though it is only the local rounds, mind you. If we import the rounds also, the recoil will disappear. So, let's import a few dozen million rounds, so the sunk cost of the rifles will be salvaged.
Well maybe we can export the 7.62 NATO to the US and then import it back from there, with 'Imported' etched on it.. :)

After all we do ship 5.56 to America - Under fire to improve, OFB ships 11 million bullets to US market
The Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has despatched 11 million rounds of 5.56x45mm (M193) caliber bullets to the US on Thursday. It’s the same caliber of ammunition used in the 5.56 Insas assault rifles, which the Indian Army is phasing out. The bullets supplied to the US are of NATO specification, making it slightly different from that used is the country, said sources.
sajaym
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by sajaym »

Manish_P wrote: under-fire-to-improve-ofb-ships-11-million-bullets-to-us-market
I totally agree with you, we should ship 10 million rounds of our locally made 7.62mm rounds, along with 10 pieces of the SIG rifles to the SIG factory and ask them to iron out the problems if they want the follow on order.

... instead here's what will happen. The import sharks will sniff the below opportunities and move in for the kill:
1. The dalals for Caracal & IWI will start pushing their products for 'emergency purchase'.
2. Some shady taliban guy will try to sell us millions of rounds old nato 7.62mm which the yanks dumped in Afghanistan.
3. Foreign vendors will line up to try sell us high priced optical sights.
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