Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Ishapore did. R2 has also been labelled Ishapore Assault Rifle.
Tanaji
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Tanaji »

Anyone know what the SPG uses as their weapon is close proximity to the PM? At Lata didis funeral today, Modiji was accompanied by SPG carrying some sort of a bull pup design weapon…
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Indian 7.62 X 51mm Assault Rifle Vs Sig 716i | Why the american gun was the choice?

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by rajkumar »

Tanaji wrote:Anyone know what the SPG uses as their weapon is close proximity to the PM? At Lata didis funeral today, Modiji was accompanied by SPG carrying some sort of a bull pup design weapon…
SPG has been using PS90 for some time. It's a 5.7mm x28. Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90
Tanaji
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Tanaji »

Thanks rajkumarji, that is the weapon that I saw
Rakesh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... COABWA6xIg ---> Lokesh Machines Limited to supply 10 units of 9x19mm Machine Pistol 'ASMI' to ARDE for trials.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Look at this. My goodness. Can gurus advise how there is little to no recoil? Click on the link below for video.

https://twitter.com/FeWoessner/status/1 ... pQ6cH-hKxg ---> This automatic rifle has almost no recoil. Kalashnikov SR-1 from Russia.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by m_saini »

Rakesh wrote:Look at this. My goodness. Can gurus advise how there is little to no recoil? Click on the link below for video.
Not a guru, Rakesh-ji, but did find this:
SR1, the “Kalashnikov” competition rifle
The Kalashnikov SR1 is a semi-automatic gas operated rifle with recoil-mitigating balanced action. This means that rifle features two gas pistons, entering single gas block above the barrel from opposite directions. The rear gas piston is attached to the bolt carrier group. The forward gas piston (which moves opposite to the rear one) is attached to a sliding counterweight, located above the bolt carrier group. Both counter-recoiling masses are synchronized by a pair of rotating gears, so after each discharge rearward and forward movement of the bolt group is balanced by a counter-moving mass attached to the forward gas piston, effectively canceling impulses generated by heavy reciprocating parts. As a result, rifle generates less felt recoil and is much easier to hold on target in rapid fire.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Great find m_saini! thank you so much. greatly appreciated.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

There is a reason it has not been adopted by the Russians as a military rifle.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Some gun company in the US did it for an LMG. A modular multi caliber LMG (somewhat along the lines of the Stoner). I had posted the video earlier in this thread.

Search for the Surefire MCX on YouTube
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Well Surefire has the same basic design as Singaporean Ultimax LMG which is a continuous recoil design.

Then there is AK107 and A545 / AEK971 balanced recoil guns. And then there's the crazy chain and pulley moving barrel hyperburst AN 94.

Except the Ultimax all are impractical for Military service due to complexity. AEK 971 and AN 94 were ordered in small quantity for small scale adoption.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Thakur_B wrote:...

Except the Ultimax all are impractical for Military service due to complexity....
Precisely put.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... U0pl5D1M9Q ---> DRDO's Pune facility ARDE has started to set up the manufacturing section for the 9x19mm Machine Pistol. ARDE and the Infantry School designed and developed this weapon utilizing their respective areas of expertise in a record time of 4 months.

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... U0pl5D1M9Q ---> Machine pistols are primarily self-loading versions of pistols which are either fully automatic or can also fire bursts of bullets. The Asmi machine pistol fires the in-service 9 mm ammunition and has an upper receiver made from aircraft-grade aluminum and lower receiver from carbon fiber.

Image
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Surprisingly modern design with Mlok slots. Goes on to prove IA and ARDE don't need OFB factories for amall arms devlopment.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »



Russian Zenitco AKM upgrade kit also known as the AK Alpha build. This is used by Russian special forces over the last decade or so. The kit is held in place on trunnion with friction fit and the dust cover is hinged on to lower hande guard.

It is far lighter and less bulky than FAB upgrade kits we have been using. Russia has millions of Ak74 lying around in storage that they have been modernising with kits like these. Now compare Mk1C or R2 with this.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/india- ... ers-r74qv1

MKU introduces Ballistic helmet for Sikh troops.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Looks quite like the old Zulu war British army headgear doesn't it.. :)
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

More like the helmets of Sikh soldiers from medieval era.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by stephen »

Thakur_B wrote:More like the helmets of Sikh soldiers from medieval era.
Add goggles and a mandible protector and we will have Darth Vader.
On a serious note, it will be very conspicuous.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Looks like UK bobby helmet :)
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

stephen wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:More like the helmets of Sikh soldiers from medieval era.
Add goggles and a mandible protector and we will have Darth Vader.
On a serious note, it will be very conspicuous.

We will only know about it when we see a warrior wearing the helmet. WRT, the men being conspicuous. It will depend on the kind of camo being used.

The Israeli combat headgear offers some clues.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Israeli ... 1&dpr=2.81
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Thakur_B wrote: https://newsable.asianetnews.com/india- ... ers-r74qv1

MKU introduces Ballistic helmet for Sikh troops.
Indian Army’s Sikh soldiers to get ‘Veer’ helmet from the house of MKU; Check features
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... 4950/lite/
15 Feb 2022
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by khatvaanga »

vivek_ahuja wrote:Here's a dumb question: does the Indian army provide new uniforms to its troops/officers free of charge when these changes are made? Or do the soldiers pay for it out of pocket? In the western armies, I believe the combat uniforms are considered equipment and provided to the soldiers free of charge. It is what allows these rapid changes in uniform designs because the taxpayer is paying for it. I seem to recall this not being the case back in India in the old days. Might be different now, though.

vivek ji, op for this thread but just wanted to say i loved both fenix and chimera. been searching for cerbeus.....

apologies to admins for this post.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by k prasad »

khatvaanga wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:Here's a dumb question: does the Indian army provide new uniforms to its troops/officers free of charge when these changes are made? Or do the soldiers pay for it out of pocket? In the western armies, I believe the combat uniforms are considered equipment and provided to the soldiers free of charge. It is what allows these rapid changes in uniform designs because the taxpayer is paying for it. I seem to recall this not being the case back in India in the old days. Might be different now, though.

vivek ji, op for this thread but just wanted to say i loved both fenix and chimera. been searching for cerbeus.....

apologies to admins for this post.
vivekji, there was an interview with Gen Syed Ata Hasnain where he answered this very question... It happens on a rolling basis as the current uniforms wear out, so for a while, units will have different uniforms even within the unit itself.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://mobile.twitter.com/IndiaMunitio ... 7948002304

Munitions India Ltd. (Former OFB) has bagged a large export order valuing ₹500 Cr. It is rumoured to be from a NATO country for 5.56x45 ammunition.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Thakur_B wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/IndiaMunitio ... 7948002304

Munitions India Ltd. (Former OFB) has bagged a large export order valuing ₹500 Cr. It is rumoured to be from a NATO country for 5.56x45 ammunition.
This is a very good news. Not because we got an export order of $75 Mn. (That also is good , this order is roughly 25% of Philippines order, so even that is big). But more importantly, this will boost the *morale* of new former OFB units that became DPSUs who always felt that they will always have to depend on GoI orders only. NOT TRUE anymore - this is a big win. I hope other new DPSUs take inspiration and export as well. Also I hope MIL will send over the best quality possible.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by mody »

Munitions India also seem to have received an order for L40 gun ammunition or parts from Europe. The order for 5.56x45 is said to twice the quantity that IA buys per annum. Last year, OFB had supplied the same to ammo in large quantity some customer in the US also.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Thakur_B, I get the feeling that Ishapore AR 2.0 is quite a good compromise in the long run.

Sig Sauer is good for its chosen role.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Wokay just some searching around in Khanland weapon sites threw this up
This 5.56x45mm ammunition is newly manufactured to M193 specifications, boxer primed brass cases produced by Indian military ordnance factories. This ammunition was manufactured on brand new French made equipment and loaded with Belgium made PB Clermont gun powder. 55 grain FMJ projectile is loaded into a high quality reloadable 70/30 brass case with a boxer primer. Comes in steel 50 caliber ammo can packed in 20 round boxes.
This is from PSA
https://palmettostatearmory.com/indian- ... gr800.html

I sincerely hope OFB V2.0 is not doing a "Lawhore to Krachi via Dubai" and importing critical items and finishing them in a brand new factory with expensive French tooling.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

mody wrote:Munitions India also seem to have received an order for L40 gun ammunition or parts from Europe. The order for 5.56x45 is said to twice the quantity that IA buys per annum. Last year, OFB had supplied the same to ammo in large quantity some customer in the US also.
not twice, thrice!! :)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 783406.cms
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by AkshaySG »

Since even OFB firms are exporting in big numbers I'm guessing all issues of ammo availability/reserves for army that came out a few years ago are now resolved.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ramana wrote:Thakur_B, I get the feeling that Ishapore AR 2.0 is quite a good compromise in the long run.

Sig Sauer is good for its chosen role.
As much as I support IDDM weapons, IAR / R2 is a crude-ish weapon lacking finesse. It needs to be brought up to another MII alternate, IWI-PLR Ace 52N which takes same magazines as SiG716.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:
ramana wrote:Thakur_B, I get the feeling that Ishapore AR 2.0 is quite a good compromise in the long run.

Sig Sauer is good for its chosen role.
As much as I support IDDM weapons, IAR / R2 is a crude-ish weapon lacking finesse. It needs to be brought up to another MII alternate, IWI-PLR Ace 52N which takes same magazines as SiG716.
The OFB small arms development is not fit for purpose. Let us not have rose tinted glasses re any small arms by OFB.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ partly agree. OFB has put out half decent designs that can be said to be half finished.

IAR / R2
Mk1C / Excalibur.
Amogh.

Compare that to P72 platform by SSS defence, which is currently mostly vapourware, but the intent is far more serious and better thought out.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:^^ partly agree. OFB has put out half decent designs that can be said to be half finished.

IAR / R2
Mk1C / Excalibur.
Amogh.

Compare that to P72 platform by SSS defence, which is currently mostly vapourware, but the intent is far more serious and better thought out.
Even conceptually SSS P72 seems good. OFB after 30 to 40 years of small arms development still cannot come up with something more than half finished.

If SSS' sniper rifles are anything to go by they should be able to come up with a competent weapon.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

A private investor along with government should be ready to fund SSS, so wit that capital they can make a strategic equity infusion into the OFBs, upgrade the facilities and workforce and outsource them production. R&D can be continued by SSS.

R&D often requires higher salaried people, something OFB's compensation structure cant support. So SSS can take up those tasks - production can still be carried by OFBs. QA & Process Experts can also come from SSS. Equity ownership will be key for SSS to do this.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Prasad »

Why would they do that when they can put that money into their own facilities?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Prasad wrote:Why would they do that when they can put that money into their own facilities?
Because GoI with some private participation will give them money to own some equity in OFB DPSU exactly to do this. To be sure SSS neither has the ability to raise that money in short term or get overseas orders like MIL got (75mn USD). They can open themselves to those large bets with one stroke. Whatever stake they could own in a DPSU, will triple in value with their participation. This equity stake could be worth 100s of crores in 5 year horizon. If they are able to do this - based on their equity position they could
1. Raise more and buy more equity in the OFBs they helped turn around
OR
2. Use that money to build their own production plants

So if they want to do 2 today - this plan is just an accelerated way to do 2 but also own a huge value chunk
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Prasad »

All that prospect is only if these companies can enable the DPSU to produce worthwhile products on par with what private companies can. How would a small company get that to happen? That is a solid risk.
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