Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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nachiket
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

40k is the total requirement. So only 24k will be left after this order. But maybe if they are building it in India other forces like BSF, CRPF and ITBP can be convinced to procure some too.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

nachiket wrote:40k is the total requirement. So only 24k will be left after this order. But maybe if they are building it in India other forces like BSF, CRPF and ITBP can be convinced to procure some too.
57k is the overall requirement, 40k will be the scope of MII LMG tender. 17K Negev have already been imported.
Rs_singh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rs_singh »

<POOF>

Admin Note: Practice better bladder control, son! Admins are not here for your cleanup. If you are underage, please post accompanied by a parent
Last edited by hnair on 23 Oct 2020 21:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Oafish posts and sinful language
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://www.thestatesman.com/cities/kol ... 32486.html
ECWCS samples were developed in 2017 in collaboration with IIT Delhi and submitted to Army for trials along with Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP). In December 2018, samples were shown to the Master General of Ordnance (MGO) and permission for trials was sought. MGO directed to submit samples against future Request for Information (RFI). Till date, no RFIs were floated
An RFP for 50000 ECWCS was floated by MGO in June 2020 for past suppliers and user-approved vendors, leaving no options for OFB to participate. We are, however, ready with our samples with modifications suggested by the user (Army) who will carry out field trials. Additionally, samples of OEF items such as boot crampon, rucksack 70 ltr light-weight and sleeping bags are under evaluation
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ Yes Ramana. Posted in this thread too.

-----

AKM upgrade kit by SSS defence.

Image
jaysimha
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jaysimha »

OFB to soon offer its indigenous anti-material sniper rifle to Army for trials
The large calibre AMR, named ‘Vidwanshak’ is a 100 per cent indigenous weapon by OFB, launched during the ‘Atmanirbhar Week’.

SOUMYADIP MULLICK | Kolkata | November 11, 2020
Image
https://www.thestatesman.com/cities/kol ... 34744.html
Aditya_V
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Well late but never, the CBM during UPA times where we gave up on Vidvanshak and giving BSF had 9mm Baretta 'a letting Pakis dominate, these kind of weapons were very useful during operation Parakram and giving a bloody nose to Pakis.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Ashokk »

kit wrote:https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... 2000-plus/

This weapon could be very useful in Punjab..!!! ,,shoot down all those paki drones !!
Navy orders Israeli anti-drone sights
NEW DELHI: The Navy has ordered a limited number of Israeli 'Smash-2000 Plus' computerized fire control and electro-optic sight systems that can be mounted on guns and rifles to tackle the threat from small hostile drones in both day and night conditions.
The deliveries of the anti-drone Smash-2000 sights, which integrate target acquisition and tracking algorithms with image-processing software, will take place early next year.
“Such sights, with each costing less than Rs 10 lakh, can be mounted on rifles to track and shoot down small and fast-moving incoming drones with very high kill probability at ranges up to 120 meters. The project will be executed by an Indian firm in collaboration with Israeli original equipment manufacturer Smart Shooter,” said a source on Tuesday.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

120 meters is too short a range to be practically viable. Good technology though. Maybe future iterations will be better. Sort of a fire control system for small arms.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Aditya_V wrote:Well late but never, the CBM during UPA times where we gave up on Vidvanshak and giving BSF had 9mm Baretta 'a letting Pakis dominate, these kind of weapons were very useful during operation Parakram and giving a bloody nose to Pakis.
9 mm Berettas came because H&K refused to sell MP5 to BSF claiming they would be used to shoot immigrants. Their loss.

OFB had quickly reverse engineered MP5 as anamika but there after MP5 sales to Indian CAPF resumed.
sarabpal.s
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by sarabpal.s »

Thakur_B wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Well late but never, the CBM during UPA times where we gave up on Vidvanshak and giving BSF had 9mm Baretta 'a letting Pakis dominate, these kind of weapons were very useful during operation Parakram and giving a bloody nose to Pakis.
9 mm Berettas came because H&K refused to sell MP5 to BSF claiming they would be used to shoot immigrants. Their loss.

OFB had quickly reverse engineered MP5 as anamika but there after MP5 sales to Indian CAPF resumed.
What use do this 9mm had on border where intruder stand far in most cases. 9mm is should be for sidearm in BSF. This import is done thru some political blessings no one want to touch.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Thakur_B wrote: OFB had quickly reverse engineered MP5 as anamika but there after MP5 sales to Indian CAPF resumed.
:D That's the right way to deal with these holier-than-thou turds. Hopefully we will do one better and march towards self-reliance soon.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Image
Image
The Indian Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC) has completed final user trials with the Indian Army, says the
@DRDO_India. The weapon had earlier been rejected. Statement from the DRDO:
What is this drama of yet more tests after rejection?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ Rejection is a strong word. JVPC had a slightly higher failure rate in earlier tests. Army wanted failure rate less thab 3 per 2000 IIRC. Will have to check though.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

Indian Army to get `Made in India’ carbines designed by DRDO
The 5.56×30 mm Protective Carbine, which has been designed by the Defence, Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) cleared the final phase of user trials earlier this week. According to the Ministry of Defence (MoD), during the trials all the GSQR parameters were met with, thus, clearing the way for the Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC) to be inducted into the services. The trials were carried out under extreme temperatures in both summer and high altitudes during winter, and also met with all the performance criteria of reliability and accuracy. It also passed the quality trials which were conducted by the DGQA.

More about JVPC
According to the information shared by the Ministry of Defence, the PVPC is a Gas Operated Semi Bull-pup automatic weapon. It comes with more than 700 rpm rate of fire.
The range of the carbine is more than 100 m, weighing about 3.0 kg.
It has features high reliability, low recoil, retractable Butt, ergonomic design, single hand firing capability, and multiple Picatinny rails etc.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

With JVPC near induction, time to make a modular pistol chambered in 5.56x30 like SiG P320. Could have an option for 9mm as well. This will provide sufficient user base to bring ammunition cost down.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by mody »

The DRDO JVPC uses 5.56x30 mm rounds, whereas Caracal 816 is chambered for 5.56x45 NATO rounds. Which is the round that the Army wants for its carbines?
Will the JVPC only be used by central paramilitary and state police forces or is it also being pitched for IA's requirement?
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ JVPC will be for Tank crew, helicopter pilots and some guard / sentry duties at best. I don't think IA will order more than 10K (very optimistic number).

Bright future with CAPFs and Police departments though.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Who will be mass producing JVPC? The real challenge now is consistently high production quality for the carbine and the ammunition. And thats not easy.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Yagnasri »

Cyrano wrote:Who will be mass producing JVPC?
That is THE question. INSAS failure mainly due to "quality" of OFB.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:^^ JVPC will be for Tank crew, helicopter pilots and some guard / sentry duties at best. I don't think IA will order more than 10K (very optimistic number).

Bright future with CAPFs and Police departments though.
I hope they don"t order more than that if any.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

If the MoD ordered a paid trial run of 100 pieces each to 3 companies to be delivered in 3-4 months, anonymised them (like a random trial) and send for 3 months of field usage/trials done in parallel by different units, and based on the results, awarded the rest of the order to the best performing company, would that be a good approach?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Bharat Forge is the sub vendor for more than 50% of components already for jvpc.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Check out this tweet quoting Jane's: apparently carbines from Beretta, Galil, Colt etc failed the Army's tests, which the JVPC passed recently!!

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 1571406849
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ Those tests were dodgy. In those tests, a carbine was rejected because rail optic mount got lose while the carbine functioned properly.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Arjun has been rejected for far less :-)

Now that JVPC has cleared tests where others failed (even if they failed only marginally), one hopes that orders will follow
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Prem ji, the test parameters would obviously have been different. JVPC is a personal defence weapon and more apt as sterling replacement in form and function in sub machine gun role. IA was evaluating carbines in close quarters battle effectiveness and for mechanised infantry.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Prem Kumar wrote:Arjun has been rejected for far less :-)

Now that JVPC has cleared tests where others failed (even if they failed only marginally), one hopes that orders will follow
There should be no room for JVPC in IA!!
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Not for soldiers on border type places for sure. But it can be used in CQB in urban areas and as someone mentioned above with pilots and tank crews.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ks_sachin wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Arjun has been rejected for far less :-)

Now that JVPC has cleared tests where others failed (even if they failed only marginally), one hopes that orders will follow
There should be no room for JVPC in IA!!
MP7, MP5, Uzi etc. could be replaced by JVPC. There is a requirement of decent numbers of sub machine guns. Not to mention Military Police, Defence security corps, CISF, police forces, BSF, CRPF, RPF etc. Overall production number of 1 or 2 lacs can be easily justified.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Cut out of Shivalik grenade.

Image

--------

The AK203 deal seems to be headed Ka226 way.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Thakur_B wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Well late but never, the CBM during UPA times where we gave up on Vidvanshak and giving BSF had 9mm Baretta 'a letting Pakis dominate, these kind of weapons were very useful during operation Parakram and giving a bloody nose to Pakis.
9 mm Berettas came because H&K refused to sell MP5 to BSF claiming they would be used to shoot immigrants. Their loss.

OFB had quickly reverse engineered MP5 as anamika but there after MP5 sales to Indian CAPF resumed.
an arms company with morals :mrgreen:

very interesting

wonder who put them up to it
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

India's Russian Deals To Build Assault Rifles and Light Utility Helicopters in Jeopardy
Industry officials said the collaborative Indo-Russian Private Limited (IRPL) to supply India’s military 750,000 Kalashnikov Ak-203 rifles and India-Russia Helicopters (IRHL) established to deliver 200 Kamov Ka-226T ‘Hoodlum’ LUHs to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Army Aviation Corps (AAC) stand jeopardised for broadly analogous reasons.

Both the rifles and the LUHs are badly-needed to fill operational voids, presently being managed either through emergency imports, or via creative jugaad or innovation, at a time when all three services, especially the Indian Army, faces enduring challenges in a volatile neighbourhood. The requirement for LUHs is even more dire, as they are badly-needed to replace the IAF’s and the AACs obsolete and accident-prone licence-built Chetak (Aerospatiale Alouette III) and Cheetah (Aerospatiale SA-315B) helicopters dating back to the mid-1960s.


“The responsibility for these continuing setbacks lies equally with the services for their flawed planning and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for its rigid and byzantine procedures that few can comprehend and even fewer implement” admitted a former defence ministry official. Instead of following a practical and realistic approach to military capability development, the services and the MoD are forever engaged in a tussle that obviates its attainment he added, declining to be identified as he was fearful of repercussions, despite having retired.


The Ak-203 saga began after the Army’s wholly impractical multi-calibre assault rifle tender was eventually terminated in 2015 after five fruitless years of trials and evaluations following a flawed qualitative requirement (QR) formulated by the Infantry Directorate for the weapon system. The proposed rifles were intended to replace the indigenously developed Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56x45mm assault rifles that entered IA service in the mid-1990s, but were seriously flawed and ultimately declared ‘operationally’ inadequate by the force in 2010.

After the disastrous multi-calibre procurement was rescinded the Army, yet again amazingly re-ignited deliberations over which calibre rifle – 5.56mm or 7.62mm – it operationally required. Its ponderings were interspersed with attempts to source an assault rifle from the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), however, failed. But four years later, in March 2019, just ahead of the general elections a few weeks later, Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated an OFB facility at Korwa near Amethi to licence build 750,000 Russian Kalashnikov Ak-203 7.62x39mm assault rifles with collapsible stocks.


The JV to implement the project followed an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) that was signed soon after in which the OFB had a 50.5% stake in IRPL, the Kalashnikov Group 42% and Russia’s state-owned arms export agency Rosonboronexport, the remaining 7.5%.

The intent was for IRPL to import some 100,000 AK-203’s for around $ 1,100 (Rs 81,000) apiece to meet the army’s urgent operational needs, followed by the licensed production of the remaining 650,000-odd units. Almost immediately, un-reconcilable price differences and technology transfer issues emerged, which industry sources said could not be resolved even during defence minister Rajnath Singh’s recent Moscow visit in September. This, in turn, led to the MoD instituting a ‘Costing Committee’ in September to try and resolve the ‘unreasonable and unacceptable’ rifle contract price reportedly being demanded by Russia. For now, it’s not clear whether this committee’s report has been submitted to the MoD, and if so, what has been the outcome. But the reality is that the Ak-203 deal remains unsigned and the bulk of the IA continues to operate the inefficient INSAS rifles while frontline units employed on counter-insurgency operations (COIN) are dependent on imported weapons.

The Russians were also reportedly demanding a royalty of $200 per Ak-203 rifle produced by the JV, making it an astronomical licence fee of $130 million for 650,000 units, in addition to the cost of erecting the plant, the bulk of which would be borne by OFB. The JV is expected to annually produce 70,000 Ak-203’s, initially from knocked-down kits and later by localising components and sub-assemblies to indigenise production to further the governments Atmanirbhar Bharat initiative.

But contractual problems did not end here.

The OFB is believed to have costed each licence-built Ak-203 rifle initially at around Rs 86,000, amortised over time to average around Rs 80,000 per unit. Embarrassingly, in comparison the import of a repeat import order for 72,400 assault rifles from the US-based Sig Sauer in early 2019 and late 2020, to meet the IA’s urgent operational needs, was considerably cheaper.

Official sources revealed that Sig Sauer’s SIG716 rifle priced at $990 (Rs 72,782) each in 2018 had emerged as L1 or lowest bidder in response to the IA’s tender, besting rivals Israel Weapon Industries and Abu Dhabi’s Caracal International that quoted $1600 and $2000 for their ACE-1 and CAR 817 assault rifles respectively. This was between Rs 13,218 and Rs 7,218 cheaper than that projected by the OFB for each Ak-203 that was really a derivative of the original Ak-47 dating back to 1947.

The obvious price differential which, when extrapolated over 650,000 rifles led to concern and raised eyebrows amongst cautious MoD officials, fearful of adverse publicity if they signed off on the inequitable rifle deal, despite government eagerness to do so to further atmanirbharta..[/b]
:
:
:
The way things are going IA might go in for additional emergency purchase of Sig Sauer’s SIG716 rifle(IA has ordered 154K+ Sig's if they get an additional 150K that will meet the requirement of troops facing China.
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

I would suggest get two more tranches of Sig Sauer and make Trichy assault rifle for rest of the troops and CAPF.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Bring back the Fn-Fal with picatinny rails, lighter furniture and shortened barrel.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

It's been 5 years since Mk1C was turned down. Army still has its head in a gutter regarding it's small arms plan. No 7.62x51 or 7.62x39 or Carbine RFP till date. OFB, PLR, SSS have product offerings in all three calibers.

OFB: AR2 in 7.62x51, Ghatak/TAR in 7.62x39, new carbine with ARDE in 5.56x45.

SSS defence: RECR family in 7.62x51, 7.62x39 and 5.56x45

Adani/PLR: ACE52 and Tavor 7 in 7.62x51, ACE32 in 7.62x39, Tavor/X95 family, ARAD and Carmel in 5.56x45.

Apart from that MKU has a JV with Thales for F90 Ccb an AuG Steyr derivative.

That is 14 products for 3 calibers. All made locally, half local designs. Really frustrating.

Edit: Add Ace 21, SLR 1A1, Insas Excalibur and Mk1c that is choice of 17 locally made rifles.
Last edited by Thakur_B on 20 Dec 2020 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
nandakumar
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by nandakumar »

VinodTK
The news link you have quoted extracts from, I have a query. The news report talks of an Inter-governmental agreement. Does it mean an agreement without a price element built into it? If so, what is the value of an agreement without an agreement on the price?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:Bring back the Fn-Fal with picatinny rails, lighter furniture and shortened barrel.
Sirji,

Thank you.

It can be done.

But we have a lack of imagination....

I am read your next post. What a bloody debacle....
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

nandakumar wrote:VinodTK
The news link you have quoted extracts from, I have a query. The news report talks of an Inter-governmental agreement. Does it mean an agreement without a price element built into it? If so, what is the value of an agreement without an agreement on the price?
-Infinity for you regress.

Looks like Russians don't want the deal.
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