Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

^^^ looks similar to the flash hider of the H&K 53

Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

SSS Defence beats Israeli firm, will be first from India to upgrade Army’s AK-47s.

Indian small arms firm SSS Defence has defeated Israeli firm Fab Defense, also known as Zahal, to bag a contract to upgrade a limited number of Kalashnikov rifles (Provision for more chai, biskut and samosa in the future for corrupt army officers and bureaucrats) with a unit of the Indian Special Forces, ThePrint has learnt.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the Bengaluru-based SSS emerged as the lowest bidder for the tender for upgrading 24 AK-47 rifles in service with a particular unit.

“This is the first time when an Indian company, with its own indigenous design and product, will upgrade a rifle for the Indian Army,” a source said.

Till now, Fab Defense had a monopoly in the Indian market over the upgrade of AK-47s in service with the Army. Different units of the Army have been upgrading their Kalashnikovs to suit modern warfare and Fab Defense has managed to upgrade a few thousand rifles over the last decade.

Sources also pointed out that until now, all the materials needed for upgrades were imported, and the SSS contract could actually open up room for more such deals with a focus on indigenous products.

What the upgrade will bring
The sources said the upgrade would entail a new foldable butt stock for the rifle, a new dust cover that will allow mounting of sights, and changes to the fore end, which will allow mounting of a bipod or a knife when needed, besides hand guard and vertical grip.

Sources said SSS has also offered to upgrade the rifle with a flash hider at no extra cost, since it was not part of the requirements issued by the particular unit of the Army.

Interestingly, while all upgrades by Fab Defense involved parts made of polymer, SSS Defence is offering aerospace alloys, sources said.

As reported by ThePrint, the company is also eyeing a possible contract from the Army for the upgrade of the legendary Dragunov sniper rifle, commonly known in the armed forces as DSR.

The Northern Command has come out with a Request for Proposal for the upgrade of 90 pieces of the nearly three-decade-old rifle, but overall, the Army is estimated to have anywhere between 6,000-7,000 pieces of the DSR.

_____

Moderator note (Karan M) : Your post was reported. Kindly do *not* accuse the Indian Armed Forces of corruption on any general topic without proof. It is not acceptable.
AkshaySG
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by AkshaySG »

Vips wrote: Bengaluru-based SSS emerged as the lowest bidder for the tender for upgrading 24 AK-47 rifles in service with a particular unit.

.
24 rifles ... Seriously ??

How much time , energy ,effort was spent in this bidding ,evaluating and contracting process and all for what 2 dozen rifles being upgraded .
How do we not have a standardized upgrade facility/package for AK-47/INSAS upgrades yet ,

Do we also send out tenders each time a Maruti Gypsy needs a oil change ?
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

In the immortal words of Shree Humphrey Appleby - "That would involve placing considerable patronage in the hands of junior members of the service" :((

I am sorry.. I couldn't resist
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

AkshaySG wrote:
Vips wrote: Bengaluru-based SSS emerged as the lowest bidder for the tender for upgrading 24 AK-47 rifles in service with a particular unit.

.
24 rifles ... Seriously ??

How much time , energy ,effort was spent in this bidding ,evaluating and contracting process and all for what 2 dozen rifles being upgraded .
How do we not have a standardized upgrade facility/package for AK-47/INSAS upgrades yet ,

Do we also send out tenders each time a Maruti Gypsy needs a oil change ?
Now which unit will have a measly 24 AKs?

Which unit is so small?

DDM.....
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

ks_sachin wrote:
AkshaySG wrote:
24 rifles ... Seriously ??

How much time , energy ,effort was spent in this bidding ,evaluating and contracting process and all for what 2 dozen rifles being upgraded .
How do we not have a standardized upgrade facility/package for AK-47/INSAS upgrades yet ,

Do we also send out tenders each time a Maruti Gypsy needs a oil change ?
Now which unit will have a measly 24 AKs?

Which unit is so small?

DDM.....
I correct my self it is a very small order.....
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

India is acquiring 716 GPMGs from the United States under FMS for 400 crores. To be used by the special forces.

But my question is why not just use the Negav 7.62 machine guns for the role. Which is already available in large numbers for the Indian armed forces.
Karan M
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

AkshaySG wrote:
Vips wrote: Bengaluru-based SSS emerged as the lowest bidder for the tender for upgrading 24 AK-47 rifles in service with a particular unit.

.
24 rifles ... Seriously ??

How much time , energy ,effort was spent in this bidding ,evaluating and contracting process and all for what 2 dozen rifles being upgraded .
How do we not have a standardized upgrade facility/package for AK-47/INSAS upgrades yet ,

Do we also send out tenders each time a Maruti Gypsy needs a oil change ?
This is a breakthrough deal for SSS Defense for the Indian Special Forces. Stands to reason if they do well, more deals can be struck.
Karan M
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

Pratyush wrote:India is acquiring 716 GPMGs from the United States under FMS for 400 crores. To be used by the special forces.

But my question is why not just use the Negav 7.62 machine guns for the role. Which is already available in large numbers for the Indian armed forces.
SF worldwide have freedom to tailor their eqpt profiles per mission requirements. So we won't know until they release their data.
Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Pratyush wrote:India is acquiring 716 GPMGs from the United States under FMS for 400 crores. To be used by the special forces.

But my question is why not just use the Negav 7.62 machine guns for the role. Which is already available in large numbers for the Indian armed forces.
What is the difference between a General Purpose Machine Gun and LMG other then the first being a belt fed Gun?

The contract for manufacture assembly of 40,000 Negev in India has still not been finalized. The supply of 16,000 Negev LMG directly from Israel is supposed to be completed by this year end.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Traditionally GPMGs were of heavier caliber, mostly belt-fed with adaptability for mounted use on vehicles and aircrafts as compared to the lesser powerful (smaller caliber, lighter weight) LMGs used by the infantry. Also a higher rate of fire was more desirable in GPMGs as they had to engage fast moving targets. Some modern LMGs have flexibility of magazine feed as well, helping flexible inter-operability within the fire team/squad, on the field during Ops.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

What the Americans call GPMGs are just FNMAGs under the designation M 240.

That is my biggest problem with this deal.

Unless they are buying the MG 338.
AkshaySG
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by AkshaySG »

Karan M wrote:
This is a breakthrough deal for SSS Defense for the Indian Special Forces. Stands to reason if they do well, more deals can be struck.
I don't disagree but even with a breakthrough order there must be a sensible amount involved to maximize efficiency.

I could maybe understand if SSS Defense came to IA and asked them for a token order to prove their credentials but if it was an actual L1 bidder kind of situation then that's pretty inefficient.
Karan M
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

The GOI process mandates this for all deals. It does not matter if it is 1 unit or 24 units or 2400 units. They have to go through it. In rare cases, citing emergency powers the services can directly strike a deal with a single vendor (AON authority is the service itself) or regular process provided they have DRDO/other stakeholders on board .
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

The 24 rifles are for proofing the process. It's a joke to ask Israel to do those minor upgrades.
KaranM sadly there is trust deficit when minor programs prefer imports even after govt policy is announced.
ParGha
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ParGha »

Karan M wrote:
Pratyush wrote:India is acquiring 716 GPMGs from the United States under FMS for 400 crores. To be used by the special forces. But my question is why not just use the Negav 7.62 machine guns for the role. Which is already available in large numbers for the Indian armed forces.
SF worldwide have freedom to tailor their eqpt profiles per mission requirements. So we won't know until they release their data.
Rs 400 crore ~= $53MM USD, which implies ~$79,000 per GPMG.
The US Army pays ~$6,600 for a M240 GPMG.
Either the numbers are misreported, or something else is very wrong here.
Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

ramana wrote:The 24 rifles are for proofing the process. It's a joke to ask Israel to do those minor upgrades.
KaranM sadly there is trust deficit when minor programs prefer imports even after govt policy is announced.
What’s the point of having a negative import list if these small updates need to be made abroad . I can understand the trust deficit with OFB/dpsu but even with private industry? This is the puzzling part
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Can't just be gpmg only. Looks like the deal for small arms, nvd and parachutes combined that was in making for AFSOD.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://mobile.twitter.com/rahulsinghx/ ... 5216043010

Indian Navy has selected PLR-IWI Masada pistol for Marcos.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://theprint.in/defence/navy-gives- ... ls/760703/

Confirmed by Snehesh Alex Philip. The order is for 500 pistols for Marcos.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 98850.html

SSS Defence's small arms test range is coming up soon.

Vivek Krishnan their CEO has long griped about lack of testing facilities due to which they have to do a lot of testing overseas.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Image

Old vs New Tavor 21 variants. An unknown number of Tavors of new variant (flat top) were procured by Para SF in 2020 after cancellation of Caracal deal.
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Same 9mm caliber?
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

ramana wrote:Same 9mm caliber?
Ramana Tavor is 5.56 NATO.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Image

Asmi, JVPC and the new prototype ARDE CQB carbine which has got a massive face lift along with bolt catch release.

I personally dig the new furniture and flat dark earth and black two tone colour.

Also they should have adopted Mlok handguard pattern like SiG716, but baby steps are welcome as well.

Edit: No bolt catch release on this one.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Looking at the ARDE CQB carbine. It appears that the hand guard is attached to the gun with 2 pins. One at the fore end and the other just before the mag well.

So removal of the hand guard and fitting Mlok should be easy.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Image

Sights manufactured by Indian company S4E in use by Marcos.
ashishvikas
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ashishvikas »

IAF to get two more satellites; India-Russia joint venture to make AK 203 rifles okayed

https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/ ... yed-341946
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Thakur_B wrote:Looks like IA is xperimenting with a new multi cam pattern camouflage and new combat uniform pattern.
C1 getup - existing camouflage and dress pattern.
C2 getup - existing camouflage and new dress pattern.
C3 getup - new camouflage and existing dress pattern.
C4 getup - new camouflage and new dress pattern.
Image
Image
https://theprint.in/defence/army-decide ... 22/774685/

New camouflage pattern adopted. Will be showcased in 2022 republic day parade.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:Image
Thakur_B which weapon is this
morem
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by morem »

It is an Uzi
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ks_sachin wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Image
Thakur_B which weapon is this
Uzi Pro. Made in India by PLR - IWI.
Yagnasri
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Yagnasri »

IIRC this kind of digital dress thing was adopted by the US few years back and then they discorded it as it was found to be ineffective and needed modifications etc. Hope our people learned from that experiance.

Wiki chacha gyan.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal ... ge_Pattern
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

The UCP pattern was good, the colours were all wrong. Who would have thought grey stood out in desert environment of Iraq and Afghanistan.
vivek_ahuja
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Here's a dumb question: does the Indian army provide new uniforms to its troops/officers free of charge when these changes are made? Or do the soldiers pay for it out of pocket? In the western armies, I believe the combat uniforms are considered equipment and provided to the soldiers free of charge. It is what allows these rapid changes in uniform designs because the taxpayer is paying for it. I seem to recall this not being the case back in India in the old days. Might be different now, though.

Reason I ask is because the various branches of the IA/IAF/IN have gone after independent combat fatigues. Even within IA units, there is no consistency in combat fatigues or equipment.

In recent years, this has improved with the C1/C2 fatigues in the pictures above. Even then, we see all sorts of exceptions within regular army units in J&K. The official fatigues consistently deployed among the troops only show up on exercises with foreign armies where one must look photogenic for national reasons.

Adding yet another change without standardization is just going to make combat fatigues a free-for-all among units. The whole look is very rag-tag unless the army deploys it at large scale in a short period of time. Across a million-man army, there is little chance of efficiency in that process.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

IA looks like a ragtag militia nowadays. Take any recent image of RR and you will see a different combination of BPJ, jacket, shirt, pants, boots, small arm, weapon sight, helmet and back pack. Much of the apparel is purchased by soldiers as the OFB produced clothing and boots are horrible.
Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

couple of youtube channels are reporting that the IA is changing its sniper training course and has selected the Sako TRG sniper rifle. i cant find this news anywhere else.

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/india- ... les-r3bd3r
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Sako TRG along with victrix scorpio were inducted couple of years back.
Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

Thakur_B wrote:Sako TRG along with victrix scorpio were inducted couple of years back.
for SF ?
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

TRG for SF Victrix for others, the overall requirements were around 17000, but only 6000 were procured.
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