Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ARDE developed UBGL being a loose fit explains OFB manufacturing Arsenal UBGL. It is compatible with both insas and AKM.
Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Indian Army has released GSQR for Modernizing the AK 47 with:

-Rubberized Pistol Foregip
-Polymer rail system
-Piccatiny scope mount
-Extendible Butt stock with integrated cheekrest
-Polymer transparent magazine
-Fibre reinforced postol grip
-Reflex sight with integrated kill flash
-Sling swivel attachment
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Western enthusiasts in the US have done that.

Here is one such guy

Modernization of the AK - a newbies story

No reason why we cannot get it done in-house or even with the aid of expert consultants, unless the license rules are restrictive?

The Russians will do it of course.. and charge a bomb for it
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Any one have any idea as to how long a firearm lasts in service.

Firearms such as

1) Bren LMG.
2) 7.62 SLR.
3) AK 47.
4) INSAS.
5) TAVOR.
6) STEN
7) Tripod.mounted beltfed MMG FNMAG?
8 ) Negav 7:62.

Keeping in view the number of rounds fired and the general abuse it has to endure in the hands of the men.

Also

What is the time period after which it needs to have a thorough overhaul. At the depot or the factory level.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ Just check the channel of Brandon Harrera aka the AK Guy on YouTube. He is a knowledgeable AK builder who makes all kinds of 'meme guns', i.e. AKs requested by his fan base on social media like the .50 cal AK and explains the entire process with prototypes. The attention to detail in quality AKs is astounding, probably that's why hardly any country that did not receive AK ToT from Soviet Union can make quality AKs till date.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Pratyush wrote:Any one have any idea as to how long a firearm lasts in service.
Standard life is 15 years, barrel wears out in 5-10K rounds. Chrome lined barrels are typically not adopted by military till recently and is more of a Civilian market thing.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Will do, Thakur sa'ab. Thanks.

Had seen some (very, very few) others. But they were all end-users who got their custom made AKs designed and built by others or videos by reps of companies like Arsenal Arms.

Edit PS - just typed his name in you tube and I see stuff like AK-50.... the Kalashnibren! Oh dear God :D
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I have watched Brandon Herrera and am a subscriber of forgotten weapons and Military Arms channel as well. Yet this was something that I could not find on those channels.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

One of my fave videos on the Forgotten Weapons channel is Ian explaining how the persistent British swallowed their ego and hired the services of H&K to redesign and improve the quality of the disasterous L-85 A1 assault rifle.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ Gun Jesus is a Goldmine of information and fairly neutral and apolitical. Would love to see him breakdown Insas and other OFB made weapons. So far he has covered only Inshapore 2A and Vickers Berthier LMG made in India on his channels.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I haven't seen the Ishapore 2a video. But I have seen the SMLE MK1 video India pattern adopted for production in 1900s. As well as the . 410 riot control weapon derived from the rifle.

His channel is on my must watch gun channels list.
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Has he covered the OFB made Browning Hi-Standard?
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

I don't think so.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Image

WRT Indian weapons in foreign channels, they can't really buy Indian guns there, can they? It is impossible to buy them as a civilian. Any chances of guns manufactured by Indian PSUs getting featured on such platforms is just pure fantasy. Private manufacturers like SSS Defence can do it, but I don't think they are going to do so anytime soon.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Plenty of obscure fire arms end up in armament museums in USA, UK and Russia, mostly donated by forces or manufacturers while decommissioning. There was an image of Insas in some Russian armament museum. Ian McCollum reviews a lot of these firearms at museums.

OFB has it's own tiny museum, HK has it's red room full of all kinds of prototypes. Kalashnikov has it's own museum and Royal Armories UK have their own museum which feature guns from all over the world.

When Ishapore 2A and 2A1 were decommissioned, they were sold off to dealers in other countries as police in India already had surplus Ishapore 2A.

Insas would probably be picked up by police forces willing to replace Ishapore 2A on the cheap.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by brvarsh »

Thakur_B wrote: When Ishapore 2A and 2A1 were decommissioned, they were sold off to dealers in other countries as police in India already had surplus Ishapore 2A.

Insas would probably be picked up by police forces willing to replace Ishapore 2A on the cheap.
I thought State police have already moved away from 303s. Home guards still use them as a "dikhawa gun" but I am surprised if any state police still uses them.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

I remember seeing UP policemen in hinterlands armed with 303 4-5 years back. Now they seem to have been replaced by INSAS or Amogh.
Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Per a Defence channel on YT, the pending issues on AK203 has been resolved and Russia has relented on TOT and no royalty for production in India.

IIRC, Russia was expecting $200 per gun as royalty earlier and if they have agreed to waive that it is a real surprise. Remains to be seen if the royalty waive off is just for India's own requirement of 750,000 rifles or also on those that would be produced for exports.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Big if true. Will open the market for export to US civilian market if Russia does not get royalty.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Thakur ji, won't the Russians try and put a condition of no-export to US, in lieu of no royalty?
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Russians want to sell to US civilian market, but they can't. Russian factory made AKs command a premium pricing in US civilian market, whether from Molot, Izhmash or Tula.

Anyhow, Russian deal for AKs is for export markets also.

Let's hope that the deal is for entire AK 200 family, which includes AK308 too.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The modern AK family has some real gems. Including one set with balanced recoil. I would like to have those guns as a part of the special forces arsenal at the minimum.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

The balanced recoil AK is for competition shooters. Russians tried the hyperbursrt AN 94, but the rifle was a complicated design with moving barrel and pulleys, so it was given up.

They again made an attempt with balanced recoil AEK 971 design successor the A545 which went heads up against Ak12. The plan was to induct both in limited numbers before mass adoption but AK12 prevailed because of similarities with Ak74.

AK308 is different from regular AK200 family. The base frame is from RPK, but features design improvement from AK12 family, which includes fixed gas tube, si that the hand guard is not required to be taken off for cleaning. A gas plug is provided in the front to clean the gas tube. So the two pieces hand guard can be ditched for a more modern milled aluminium hand guard like the Sig716.

The downside of the Ak308 is the handguard and hinged dustcover which may prove to be dodgy in long run.

The AKV 521 family is the truly modern AK. Only thing missing is bolt catch release.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
OFT M3 (also referred to as TriCa)

Features a milled receiver.

Image
Jugaad anti drone rig.
jamwal
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

If it works, it works.
Is it INSAS or Excalibur?
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

+1

Need to also equip our border police forces with this (till they get proper kit). They are often first responders, when locals call them..

Such situations are fast becoming the new normal..
Manish_P wrote:A question... Can the Police forces in sensitive border areas along Jammu, Kashmir, Punjab also be provided with anti-drone weapons (long range anti-material rifles, LMGs)/Tech (Anti-drone systems and teams)?

Often they are the first responders. If locals spot the drones they are more likely to call the police than the military folks.

Suspected drones spotted at 4 locations in Jammu and Kashmir's Samba
Security forces on Monday (August 2) spotted four drones in Jammu and Kashmir's Samba district. The objects were noticed in the intervening nights of Sunday and Monday.

Police sources said the four flying objects were spotted in the Baniyari, Ghagwal, Nad and Ramgadh areas of Samba district. According to reports, the drones were spotted hovering over military establishments in these areas. "Police personnel did not fire at these as they were out of range, but the army was immediately alerted", sources said.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

jamwal wrote:If it works, it works.
Is it INSAS or Excalibur?
Insas. Excalibur does not have a carry handle.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by sanjayc »

India-Russia defence deal gets go-ahead: AK-203 assault rifles to be made in India
New Delhi: On the eve of India's Independence Day, there's been a major breakthrough, not just for the Army but also the central police forces in the country.

After over a year of negotiation, India and Russia have agreed to the terms for the manufacture of the AK-203 assault rifle in a VIP Lok Sabha constituency in Uttar Pradesh.

The announcement had been made over a year ago, but the negotiations were prolonged. The manufacture of the AK-203 in India is another triumph for indigenous production.

Over 6 lakh Kalashnikov assault rifles will be made here, now that the differences between Russia and India have been sorted out. Now, the weapons will be manufactured by a firm called Indo-Russian Private Ltd.

There will be a TOT, or transfer of technology, and importantly, no royalty for weapons made. Under the just worked out agreement, the cost of the rifle will come down, and for now, the quantity. The total cost is going to be about Rs 5,125 crore.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... dia/798717
Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

The order quantum for AK 203 for Indian Army has come down from 750,000 rifles to 600,000. So does this mean extra orders for the Sig 716?
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

India already got 144000 + Sig Sauers.

Thakur, Have you hear actual trial firings feedback for the AK 203?
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

How much will the establishment of the plant itself cost?

As the cost of the individual rifle is working out to be Rs 85,4517/- if not counting the plant and labour. If both are included in the quoted price. It is represented good value.

The report from January is talking about a royalty fee of Rs 6000/- per rifle. With a cost of production of the rifle ,@ 70000/-rs.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 254749.cms
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

Kalyani small arms were making up to 50% of components of JVPC. Now it seems they are listing JVPC as a complete product.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://mobile.twitter.com/alpha_defens ... 6859824129

Ashbury Defence Group India has a tie up with Colt and are offering their products in India.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by nits »

Gagan wrote:Cornershot.
There is a 9mm pistol that is the actual firearm
Sir in such setting where RD happens in pretty much open space or crowded area - how useful / relevant is Corner shot gun...
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by sajaym »

nits wrote: Sir in such setting where RD happens in pretty much open space or crowded area - how useful / relevant is Corner shot gun...
Cornershot, even with a pistol is very relevant due to the below scenarios:

1. The first & most common tactic of terrorists is to attack their target with an indiscriminate & heavy volume of fire & lobbing of grenades. The firing & explosion causes the defenders to take cover & then the defenders have two options: a) wait for the attackers firing to reduce/stop and then come out of cover & fire back b) come out of cover during attackers firing to fire back and run the risk of self getting hit. So here Cornershot allows the defenders to fire back from cover and challenge / neutralize the attackers. Don't be mistaken by the fact that it is a pistol...in a fire fight any bullet (of any caliber) going in the direction of the attacker is sure to put them on the defensive. Caliber is not important, response is.

2. After the initial firing, the next most common tactic of the terrorists is to run to a hard point (behind a wall or in a corridor or up a flight of stairs or a room). From this point the terrorists then rain down selective fire on any pursuing defenders and as the pursuers are exposed to the attackers field of fire while approaching the attacker, there can be many unwanted casualities. So here Cornershot allows the defenders to continue firing at the holed up attackers while staying out of the attackers field of fire.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://theprint.in/defence/india-inks- ... lf/718827/

70000 AK 200 series rifle to be purchased off the shelf.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Thakur_B wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/india-inks- ... lf/718827/

70000 AK 200 series rifle to be purchased off the shelf.
So that is the price to pay for TOT-> our Babudom is clear in its priorities- they will not allow private Manufacturers to do this but will keep buying from foreign Private manufacturers.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Delhi police has cornershot since 4-5 years, i think
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Srutayus »

our Babudom is clear in its priorities-
Along with the normal sloth that is associated with the bureaucracy, no babu is going to move quickly on any contract let alone one involving a domestic private company with the immaturity and rank opportunism displayed by the press and opposition in the Rafale deal. This is also why they stick to the rules at the detriment of defense preparedness, for instance in Project 75. No one is going to take initiative to hasten anything.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jaysimha »

Ministry of Defence
First batch of Multi-Mode Hand Grenades handed over to Indian Army in the presence of Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh in Nagpur

Raksha Mantri terms it a shining example of public-private partnership to achieve self-reliance in defence manufacturing
Posted On: 24 AUG 2021 3:25PM by PIB Delhi
Key highlights:

☻ Grenade manufactured by Economic Explosives Limited Co following Transfer of Technology from a DRDO lab
☻ MMHG works in both offensive & defensive modes with high accuracy and reliability
☻ Raksha Mantri calls it an important milestone in defence manufacturing and a big step towards ‘AatmaNirbhar Bharat’
☻ Defence exports in last two years cross Rs 17,000 crore

Image
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePa ... ID=1748523
https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/defence-min ... 36363.html
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