Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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jamwal
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Shoddy article with good details.

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 824133114/

In a first, CAPF to get BIS marked level-5 bullet resistance jackets by next month


Image
The Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) in India, for the first time, will be equipped with Bureau of Indian Standard (BIS) marked level-5 bullet resistance jackets by September end, a move by the Central government in line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi's vision of 'Aatmanirbhar Bharat'.
The CAPF personnel deployed on combat duty, in security cover of VIPs and other key vulnerable locations like Maoist-hit areas and Jammu and Kashmir are provided bullet resistance jackets for their safety.
The bullet resistance jackets currently being used by the CAPF so far are approval for combat use by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ), a research, development and evaluation agency of the U.S. Department of Justice.
By September 23-24, as per the current schedule, the Home Ministry sources said that "A new set of around 4,000 bullet resistance jackets will be provided to the CAPF with the first-time certification from the BIS, a national standard body of India established under the BIS Act 2016 for the harmonious development of the activities of standardization, marking and quality certification of goods".
Presently, level-4 category bullet resistance jackets are being used by the seven CAPFs that include Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Border Security Force (BSF), Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), Sashstra Seema Bal (SSB), Assam Rifles (AR) and National Security Guard (NSG).
ITBP and the SSB will be first among all the CAPFs to get this new set of upgraded bullet resistance jackets having BIS certification.
"A set of 4,000 Level-5 BIS hallmark BR (bullet resistance) jackets will be provided to the ITBP and the SSB for the first time by September 23-24 this year," an official privy to the procurement deals in the CAPF told ANI.
The cost of each level-5 jacket is estimated at around Rs 40,000 to Rs 45,000 for each piece.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 73504?s=20 ---> Kalashnikov Corporation says that it shipped a batch of AK-15 assault rifles to India for special units of Indian states.

https://twitter.com/PosteriorCrevi1/sta ... 36484?s=20 ---> Its for state police SWAT units.

Source of Image Below ---> http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ak_15.htm

Image
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/14 ... 65537?s=20 --->

Highly Symbolic: The Army has received it's first lot of private sector produced ammunition under the #MakeInIndia initiative.

DRDO designed, Solar Group manufactured multi mode grenades handed over in presence of @rajnathsingh, Army Chief and Secretary DRDO.

Image
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Igorr »

Rakesh wrote:Source of Image Below ---> http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ak_15.htm
According to the magazine shape it's an AK-12 (for 5.45x39mm) on the picture above. And here is an AK-15 indeed:

Image
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Thanks for the correction Igorr
jamwal
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Image

INSAS LMG with CRPF.

BTW, what was the role of an INSAS LMG in a section or platoon with riflemen carrying INSAS rifles? Its magazines had only 20 or sometimes 30 rounds. Was it enough to provide good suppressing power?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Its Barrel is much longer, so the range of 5.56*45 was 700 mts in the Insas LMG compared to ordinary Insas where without scope the accuracy of the 5.56*45 was 400m.

It was meant to provide suppressive fire to the Squad with same Ammo.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Some Brit think tank of ex Afghan vets recently claimed in a conference that they came across lists which showed that the Talibs (thus the pakis) got nearly 50000 US small arms from the withdrawal mess (probably a bribe). And hundreds of thousands of rounds...

We really need to up the pace of our procurement.

Wish we were self sufficient in manufacturing our own... sticking with and improving with iterations :(
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Not 50,000, more like 6,00,000. Spanking new M4, M16, M249, Milkors, Carl Gustav's and much more. Heaps and heaps of modern small arms, with optics.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

:( I did think I heard that number and couldn't believe my ears... I thought it must have been the rounds.

Anyway a fire storm headed our way. We must re-organise the internal prioritization (small arms, ammo, BPJs, ...) accordingly for the immediate short term..
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Some reports are suggesting that 70K AKM order is by IAF.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »


AKV 521 is the latest in AK family.
jamwal
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Thakur_B wrote:Some reports are suggesting that 70K AKM order is by IAF.
70K assault rifles for Navy can make some sense if they are raising a marine division or two. What will Air Force do with so many rifles?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Repeated/deleted
Last edited by YashG on 28 Aug 2021 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Thakur_B wrote:Not 50,000, more like 6,00,000. Spanking new M4, M16, M249, Milkors, Carl Gustav's and much more. Heaps and heaps of modern small arms, with optics.
Even at the height of afghan army, their numbers ranged bw 1lakh to 3 lakh, closer to 1 than 3. Also not all umits would have recvd american arms- some would have had AKs

So 6 lakh guns number cant be true, why would it stock so much reserve.

Many of these guns would end up in black arms market - so terrorist groups attacking india can have access to these but the guns will also go to extremists fighting in baloch, xinjiang and frontier pakistan, even volatile russian regions. While pakistan sponsored terrorists always had access to guns thru pakis - bt nw these elements fighting elsewhere too will have access.

Its a small headache for us but much larger one to pakistan itself and china , even russia.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by AkshaySG »

So going by these numbers IAF seems to have a requirement of 1.5 lakh new assault rifles, Almost a quarter of Army's reqt of 6.5 lkh rifles which seems very high.

Even taking in beefed up security at all airbases/installations and for all Garud Forces I don't see how they came up with the 1.5 lkh number.

Has there been any major expansions in the size of IAF security forces?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

After reviewing Pathankot after action report and fall of Kabul, which could lead to terrorist attacks on airbases, looks like IAF want all its personnel to be armed with AK level rifles.
So first tranche 70k AK 103. Next wait for AK203 production.
Garuds got 4k Sig Sauer.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I have been watching the development of the new generation of 6.8 ammunition at massa land. I find that one of the companies has come up with a revolutionary approach to regarding the manufacturing of ammunition. With polymer hybrid case. That ammunition is as light as 5.56 nato and yet has the performance of a larger round.

If this ammunition could be adapted for use by Indian army's existing 7:62 weapons it will provide a huge advantage to the Indian infantry with lighter weight and high lethality ammunition.

Thakur had posted the you tube link with 7:62 NATO ammo in this format. In this very thread.


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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

In the end it will be a throwup between TVCM and SiG. TVCM is too revolutionary. SiG is incremental update. SiG also has a strong rifle contender with SiG MCX spear.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

AkshaySG wrote:
So going by these numbers IAF seems to have a requirement of 1.5 lakh new assault rifles, Almost a quarter of Army's reqt of 6.5 lkh rifles which seems very high.

Even taking in beefed up security at all airbases/installations and for all Garud Forces I don't see how they came up with the 1.5 lkh number.

Has there been any major expansions in the size of IAF security forces?
Garuds are already equipped and this requirement 1.5 lakh rifles for just the base security seems a bit high for Air Force.
Is IAF considering creating its own Airborne formation like this one in China?

Image
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

jamwal wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Some reports are suggesting that 70K AKM order is by IAF.
70K assault rifles for Navy can make some sense if they are raising a marine division or two. What will Air Force do with so many rifles?
To be viewed in the context of a recent RFP... ? Thinking long term.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Which one?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

LPD. Landing forces may not be IA, they could be IN Marine Forces in the future ?
jamwal
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

This one is Air Force, it is mentioned in 3-4 posts here including mine.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

my bad, thanks for the correction.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

jamwal wrote: Garuds are already equipped and this requirement 1.5 lakh rifles for just the base security seems a bit high for Air Force.
Is IAF considering creating its own Airborne formation like this one in China?
Well its not just base security, there is the AFP and then the FAC teams too. But even then the quantity looks far too large for them. Wonder what drove them to this number?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Are they going to dual wield the AKs?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Or perhaps they are planning to issue these to everyone.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:Or perhaps they are planning to issue these to everyone.
Pilots will use the AKs in a BVR engagement!!!!
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

As a part of the survival gear. Or as a self defence weapon in case of base attack.

Otherwise, I have no clue as to why the IAF will seek so many assault rifles.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Garuds are already fairly well armed with Tavors and other Israeli small arms which are mostly 5.56 mm. Total strength of IAF is not even 1.4 lakh. So even 70k 7.62m m AKs number is too large and only explanation I can think of is what is posted earlier. I think I've seen MARCOS with these rifles in the past. I tried searching for number of INSAS purchased by the IAF and didn't find anything.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

jamwal wrote:Garuds are already fairly well armed with Tavors and other Israeli small arms which are mostly 5.56 mm. Total strength of IAF is not even 1.4 lakh. So even 70k 7.62m m AKs number is too large and only explanation I can think of is what is posted earlier. I think I've seen MARCOS with these rifles in the past. I tried searching for number of INSAS purchased by the IAF and didn't find anything.
Hmmm is it possible that some of these Assualt rifles will make it Afgan Taliban opposition who will start taking Kunduz, Mazer I Sharif etc.. that would be nice
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Aditya ji, things don't work that way.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

I know
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Maria »

jamwal wrote:Shoddy article with good details.

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 824133114/

In a first, CAPF to get BIS marked level-5 bullet resistance jackets by next month


Image
The Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) in India, for the first time, will be equipped with Bureau of Indian Standard (BIS) marked level-5 bullet resistance jackets by September end, a move by the Central government in line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi's vision of 'Aatmanirbhar Bharat'.
The CAPF personnel deployed on combat duty, in security cover of VIPs and other key vulnerable locations like Maoist-hit areas and Jammu and Kashmir are provided bullet resistance jackets for their safety.
The bullet resistance jackets currently being used by the CAPF so far are approval for combat use by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ), a research, development and evaluation agency of the U.S. Department of Justice.
By September 23-24, as per the current schedule, the Home Ministry sources said that "A new set of around 4,000 bullet resistance jackets will be provided to the CAPF with the first-time certification from the BIS, a national standard body of India established under the BIS Act 2016 for the harmonious development of the activities of standardization, marking and quality certification of goods".
Presently, level-4 category bullet resistance jackets are being used by the seven CAPFs that include Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Border Security Force (BSF), Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), Sashstra Seema Bal (SSB), Assam Rifles (AR) and National Security Guard (NSG).
ITBP and the SSB will be first among all the CAPFs to get this new set of upgraded bullet resistance jackets having BIS certification.
"A set of 4,000 Level-5 BIS hallmark BR (bullet resistance) jackets will be provided to the ITBP and the SSB for the first time by September 23-24 this year," an official privy to the procurement deals in the CAPF told ANI.
The cost of each level-5 jacket is estimated at around Rs 40,000 to Rs 45,000 for each piece.
What happens if a pocketed grenade or magazine takes an enemy round for these BFJs?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ nothing will happen. Grenades don't go kaboom on impact.

Btw the above article states that the vests are BIS level 5. BIS Level 6 is equivalent to NIJ level IV, so I guess these must be NIJ level III+ vests.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://www.jns.org/after-a-mere-decade ... vor-rifle/

Israel may be retiring tavors after just a decade of use. The article says it may be replaced by M4 but most likely it will be m4 derivatives like IWI Arad.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by VinodTK »



Indian Army's Enhanced Night Vision Goggle & Image Intensifiers & Thermal sights for Sig Sauer 716
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