Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »


Looks like AK308 has also been equipped with ambi selector like more recent AKMs.

With optics becoming increasingly affordable for long range engagement and for the sake of commonality with SiG716, AK308 should have been the choice of IA.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Personally I am in favor of a single family of weapons. Let the calibre be different. So that training of troops can be common for all calibers.

Right now we have one set of troops equipped with INSAS, another with AK family and yet another set with sig 716. None of them have common location for charging handle. Or mag release, or safety lever.

In heat and stress if the battlefield it will create problems, if due to some reasons weapons have to be changed.

In an ideal scenario what I would have wanted was to have the following set of weapons.

If we are going with SIG.

1) 716 for NATO 7.62.
2) A 7.62 USSR intermediate based on 716 from SIG it self. With the magazine well adapted to AK family magazine. But with 716 magazine release. Pay for its development, if this weapon doesn't exist.


Same way, if the IA had decided to have a lot of AK series rifles. Then even the 7.62 NATO calibre should have been from the AK family.

That way if the Jawan has to be handed a different calibre weapon in the field. Then he doesn't have to worry about where the controls are in the stress for the battlefield.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

AKV 521 can ve fitted with stanag magwell for 5.56x45. This is what Kalashnikov claims.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Image

NSG has adopted Tonbo Binods. Army also wants to test them.
jaysimha
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jaysimha »

Explained: Why Indian Army’s indigenous ‘Multi-Mode Hand Grenades’ is a shining example of 21st-century defence arsenal
August 25, 2021

Image

https://newsonair.com/2021/08/25/explai ... e-arsenal/
The advanced grenade has dual-mode – defensive and offensive. In the offensive mode, the grenade doesn’t have a fragment sleeve and is used for low-intensity attacks as it offers stunning effects. The mode is used when the soldier targets the attack within five meters from the point of burst.

In defensive mode, the grenade is assembled with its fragmenting sleeve. This mode of the grenade is used when the soldier is in the shelter and the enemy is in the open area. Its lethal radius has a capacity to target eight meters from the point of burst.

Salient features of the grenade

1) To ensure high reliability, the grenade comes with twin delay tubes.

2) The new advanced Multi-mode grenade has a minimum 0.5 second arming delay for the safety of soldiers.

3) For a deep penetration attack, the grenade has 3,800 unique fragmentation patterns.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/india- ... dnm-qzdop6

Apparently the second tranche of 72000 Sig 716 was never ordered. It hasn't even been negotiated yet.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

WTF,

It's not rocket science. If the original contract had the option of repeated purchase. Then what is the need to negotiate with SIG. Just tell them that we wish to execute our options for additional weapons.

Options are a standard part of weapons procurement contracts.

Is MOD is so stupid that they didn't include options for additional weapons in the original contract?
RKumar

Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by RKumar »

Welcome to have a dependency upon imported gear ... ready to pay an arm and leg :((
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://werywin.com/

This UP based firm has tied up with LMT to manufacture their 7.62x51, 7.62x39, 5 56x45 and .300 blackout. They have also tied up with a couple of Israeli firms for pistols and smg.
mody
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by mody »

Some YouTube channels are reporting that the ARDE developed 5.56x45 carbine and belt fed LMG are ready. Will not be manufactured by OFB and proposals have been invited from interested public and private companies for the ToT and manufacturing. SSS defence, Kalyani, BEL along with a host of other companies are mentioned as being interested.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Is there any space in the Indian army infantry holdings for both of these weapons?

5.56 is in its way out.

7.62 belt fed is being met by Negav.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://mobile.twitter.com/MaverickBhar ... 2392938500

IA has placed ₹100 Cr order to Tonbo imaging for helmet / weapon mounted sights.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

^ Good to hear. Hope it is a smooth process end-to-end. And that there will be many more orders to our local firms.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

https://theprint.in/defence/army-taps-b ... ad/734911/

Ironically, Indian Army first discovered Tonbo products in joint exercises with NATO member countries.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

:) I had seen photos of those exercises.. some in these forums itself.

I hope not.. I think Tonbo had approached the IA / MoD earlier but maybe their capabilities got the deserved attention post the export sales.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

Image

Gujarat ATS. What is the gun on right?
morem
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by morem »

Sig 556
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

Asmi machine pistol.
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Seems to be a mish mash of JVPC, Uzi and Mac 10, h&k MP7
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Thanks for the link. Read it with interest. I was impressed with the multi calibre assault rifle available in 7.62 USSR, 5.56 NATO and 6.8.

I have been asking for something like this for the last 6 or 7 years.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:
Thanks for the link. Read it with interest. I was impressed with the multi calibre assault rifle available in 7.62 USSR, 5.56 NATO and 6.8.

I have been asking for something like this for the last 6 or 7 years.
It’s got some design issues but more importantly the multi caliber ship has sailed. There is a reason multi caliber rifles are not fielded in anger. Dhobi ka Kuta etc etc…
VinodTK
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by VinodTK »



DAC Clears AK-203 Deal
Pratyush
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Sachin, you correct about the issues caused by the multi calibre weapon. But my thought process was in terms of having a weapons family. Like the AR or SCAR.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:Sachin, you correct about the issues caused by the multi calibre weapon. But my thought process was in terms of having a weapons family. Like the AR or SCAR.
I agree with you whole heartedly. Just look at SSS defence small arms as an example
Mort Walker
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

It's shameful India has to purchase over $700 million of nearly 683,000 AK-203 rifles. That scale of manufacturing needs to be done in India as it will generate huge employment.
Manish_P
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

The reforms of the OFBs is a step in the right direction.

Next should be very strict manufacturing processes and QC levels. With performance accountability and sales linked pay rises / promotions etc. Like the private sector.

Then we will see measurable changes quickly. Or shutdown &sell-off if they are incapable of changes (like MTNL in mumbai)
Maria
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Maria »

A pooch - do people like Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Bansod from Infantry School, Mhow, are given the push to create new weaponry by the higher ranks or was this completely an independent endeavour by him, whereby he spent his own funds to get the ASMI made? Couldn't find too much on the origins and the thoughts behind this weapon.

Thanks again.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
https://mobile.twitter.com/EVITAR_SYSTE ... 1633542147

Trichy Assault Rifle upgrade package by Evitar.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

jamwal wrote:Image

Gujarat ATS. What is the gun on right?
SiG 556 SWAT / Commando made by SiG Sauer USA. Internals of SiG 550 with ergonomics of M16. This was a limited production run and considered pretty rare. One of the last designs where SiG Sauer USA took IP from San Swiss Arms Switzerland for US market.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Thakur_B wrote:Image
https://mobile.twitter.com/EVITAR_SYSTE ... 1633542147

Trichy Assault Rifle upgrade package by Evitar.
That stock looks so sad, picked directly from the INSAS by the looks of it!! Surely they can come up with more slick looking stocks.
Vicky
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vicky »

Interesting snippet from DRDO TechFocus released today
Following future developments have been planned in ARDE in small arms:
6.8 X 43 mm family of weapons
•Case-telescopic weapon system
•Green bullets
•Laser ignition ammunition ammunition of small arms
https://www.drdo.gov.in/sites/default/f ... t_2021.pdf

Has the Army made up it's mind about 6.8 mm rounds? US hasn't yet.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Image
https://mobile.twitter.com/EVITAR_SYSTE ... 1633542147

Trichy Assault Rifle upgrade package by Evitar.
That stock looks so sad, picked directly from the INSAS by the looks of it!! Surely they can come up with more slick looking stocks.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jaywankhadej ... 5184150528

Already available and supplied to Delhi Police.
Bala Vignesh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Now could some one please explain to me why are we going for AK203 when we have the same capability in a desi product??
Picklu
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Picklu »

Bala Vignesh wrote:Now could some one please explain to me why are we going for AK203 when we have the same capability in a desi product??
The same reason as most of our weapons import. Hafta.
Vivek K
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

Mort Walker wrote:It's shameful India has to purchase over $700 million of nearly 683,000 AK-203 rifles. That scale of manufacturing needs to be done in India as it will generate huge employment.
A crying shame! When will we learn?
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

EXPLAINED: The Trigger For India's Switch To AK-203 From INSAS Rifle And How It Targets Atmanirbhar Boost
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HOW DOES THE AK-203 COMPARE WITH THE INSAS RIFLE?
The AK-203 is lighter, shorter and deadlier than the INSAS rifle.

Even without the magazine and the bayonet, the INSAS rifle weighs 4.15kg while the AK-203’s empty weight is 3.8kg. The length of the INSAS rifle is 960mm without the bayonet while the AK-203 has a length of 705mm with the stock folded.

Against the 5.56×45mm bullets used by INSAS, the AK-203 uses 7.62x39mm bullets, which makes it more lethal. INSAS has an effective range of 400m while AK-403 is said to have a sighting range of 800m. The AK-203 magazine carries 30 bullets against the 20 round capacity of the INSAS rifle.

Reports say that while the INSAS can fire single shots and in three-round bursts, the AK-203 rifle can be used in automatic and semi-automatic mode. Also, while the INSAS rifle has a better fire rate of 650 bullets per minute, the AK-203 with its 600 bullets per minute rate is, however, seen as providing greater accuracy.
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Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Half the article is bull droppings. Insas had it's problems but Ak 203 is hardly modern itself. When considering the whole family of weapons AK 200 series is optimised for production of different variants with 80% commonality of parts.

Still doesn't explain why Army changed the calibre requirements 2 times from 5.56x45 to 7.62x51 and then 7.62x39.

The time it took to finalise AK deal could have easily been utilised to pick INSAS replacement through open tender, both for rifles and carbines.

What is it like, 15 years since Army started it's hunt? Where is the Army's attempt at NGSW like program? What happens when PLA goes ahead with its plan to equip it's infantry from no BPJ to level III/IV bpj? Do we ditch 7.62x39?

Why not 7.62x51 AK308? So many ad-hoc decisions with no justified reasons.
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Thakur_B wrote:Half the article is bull droppings. Insas had it's problems but Ak 203 is hardly modern itself. When considering the whole family of weapons AK 200 series is optimised for production of different variants with 80% commonality of parts.

Still doesn't explain why Army changed the calibre requirements 2 times from 5.56x45 to 7.62x51 and then 7.62x39.

The time it took to finalise AK deal could have easily been utilised to pick INSAS replacement through open tender, both for rifles and carbines.

What is it like, 15 years since Army started it's hunt? Where is the Army's attempt at NGSW like program? What happens when PLA goes ahead with its plan to equip it's infantry from no BPJ to level III/IV bpj? Do we ditch 7.62x39?

Why not 7.62x51 AK308? So many ad-hoc decisions with no justified reasons.
Exactly, this is clearly a lifafa article with fudged up intentions, as seen by comparing 2 different metrics or under different conditions.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

The pronged flash hider on ARDE OFB CQB carbine looks interesting.

ARDE has called out expression of interest for private sector for carbines, most likely CQB carbine and Asmi machine pistol.
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