Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Piyal.g
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Piyal.g »

I think the good thing about F-insas is that everything is manufactured indigenously.

The battle management system can be added to it later.

If every single soldier in the infantry is equipped with all the stuff shown in the presentation it will be a big step forward for our armed forces.

If we keep nato aside, Russian and Chinese forces have just started inducting optics and new rifles. Ak-12's feedback is not good. So now Ak 203 looks better in comparison.

Now if the army decides on the carbine and lmg front and starts induction as soon as possible it will add to the Indian army's lethality by a huge margin.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

IF indigenous is that is your bar then we are in trouble mate?

I much have the infantry equipped with the best even if imported.

And the AK203 is a bad choice for regular infantry. Please read some of the earlier posts on the effectiveness of various calibres.

Also as Thakur_B pointed out this is old wine in new bottle. Please read the details he has posted. Which means that we have wanted 6 to 7 years for a piece of kit that provides nothing.

Also the uniform is not in the camo pattern that the AHQ has approved I think. Talk about half baked.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

As far as current standards go, if provided to every infantry man, the standard would be superior to what is currently deployed by SF and Ghatak troops as a whole (small unit level purchases be exempted).

The uniform pattern is new camo, vest displayed is in old camo pattern but that is easily fixable.

The vest is lighter by a good 5-6 KG. However, vests with better ergonomics are available.

Mono NVG is better than no NVG.

New bags, boots, uniforms, vests, helmets, rifle, sight, nvg combined would easily cost 3-5 lac rupees. This is not a cheap upgrade.
Piyal.g
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Piyal.g »

ks_sachin wrote:IF indigenous is that is your bar then we are in trouble mate?

I much have the infantry equipped with the best even if imported.

And the AK203 is a bad choice for regular infantry. Please read some of the earlier posts on the effectiveness of various calibres.
With every passing day, military hardware is getting costlier.

You can't keep up with the developed countries if you keep on buying imported maal.

Russia, China and even Turkey keep on supporting their local stuff, now they have developed an ecosystem that in long-term and difficult situations has given amazing results.

You can't always get the best in the world if you follow the indigenous route but it is best for the economy and in long term for the country.

Regarding the calibre, every army is moving towards a bigger calibre due to multiple reasons: use of better armour protection everywhere, BPJ & BPH, and distances you may have to engage will also be greater due to the use of optics(for 7.62*51). In keeping up with this trend Army has chosen these two calibres. New calibre if introduced will involve huge costs and lots of planning from manufacturing to transport to firing. So better use the old trusted calibre.

Let's see what calibre they choose for the carbine. I pray it to be 7.62*39 or the army will have a cocktail of calibre.
Kakkaji
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

Indo-Russian AK-203 Rifles production in India gets delayed
Indigenous production of the much awaited AK-203 assault rifle under the joint venture between India and Russia is expected to be delayed further due to unresolved issues between the two sides.

Sources confirmed to Financial Express Online that “There is a delay in the indigenous manufacturing of the AK-203 as there are issues related to Transfer of Technology (ToT) from Russia which has to be addressed first.”

“Secondly, due to the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine, there has been a delay in the process of firming up the supply chain. Also there is lack of clarity on the supply chain,” said the source quoted above.

Adding, “Incidentally, there is no clarity on who will be making the barrel of the assault rifle.”

The Indian Army will be the first recipient of the AK-203 outside Russia. Currently, it is under limited use by the Russian Special Forces.

Initially, it will include Russian components. There also in batches of 20,000-40,000, the percentage of indigenous content would be increased gradually from 5% to 100% with a plan to produce all AK-203 after the first 1.2L with 100 percent indigenisation.
Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

^^^ The Ukraine war has started the beginning of the end to Russian Arms import. The is the best blessing our desi MIC could have got.

Hoping for large orders now
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

A large order of what, sir?

I hope not the AK203..

You want the army saddled with 7.62X39 when even the Russians have moved on from that!!
Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

ks_sachin wrote:A large order of what, sir?

I hope not the AK203..

You want the army saddled with 7.62X39 when even the Russians have moved on from that!!
hoping for ATAGS
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

ATAGS will come but I thought we were talking small arms.

We have not bought Arty from the Russians for a long time.
Piyal.g
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Piyal.g »

So ultimately major procurement for the #IndiaArmy PARA SF going to happen. Wish list -
715 Mk 48 LMGs
1050 FN SCAR H
1400 FN SCAR L/HK-416
110 .50 Cal Browning HMG
400 HM-NVS
600 combat free-fall parachutes
100 Barret M107 A1 sniper rifles https://t.co/TQRVGwJZLH

Does anyone have any idea what happened to this order, our Para SF seems to be still using Tavor and m4?
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Now that the entire Parachute regt is being converted to SF these weapons you mentioned are for special roles.

The Tavor is a fine weapon and for their kind of ops 5.56 NATO is well suited.

All the weapons you have mentioned apart from the HK416 are specialist weapons and will probably be distributed across the various bn's.

We are talking 15 SF battalions and at 600 men per bn that is 9000.
Kakkaji
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

AK-203 rifles from Amethi by end of the year, say Russian officials
The small arms factory at Amethi is likely to start operations to produce AK-203 assault rifles by the end of the year, senior officials from Kalashnikov have said. The Indo Russian Rifles, a joint venture between Advanced Weapons and Equipment India (erstwhile OFB) and Russian Rosoboronexport will achieve full-scale manufacturing capacity in three years.

After facing multiple challenges like payment related issues due to western sanctions and a complicated technology transfer agreement, the joint venture is back on track and equipment to make the rifles will be sent in two stages, officials said.

Officials said that they envisage no impediments in taking the project ahead and all necessary equipment is ready to be shipped out to India shortly.

"A team of Russian engineers have visited the factory and have already trained personnel to manufacture the rifles in India. As the equipment arrives, we will assist in setting up the production units," a Kalashnikov official said. Minor hiccups in the project, like a batch of faulty ammunition produced by erstwhile Ordnance Factory Board that let to failure of some weapon systems, have been rectified and a reliable ammunition manufacturer has been identified.

The Russian company has also proposed several upgrades to the rifles to include options such as an adjustable stock and sights but they have not been included in the package yet and could come as an add on later, officials said.

The Korwa Rifle Factory in Amethi is being upgraded with a modern production line where the latest version of the Kalashnikov rifles will be manufactured. A small arms range has also been set up at the factory where the acceptance trials can also be conducted by the armed forces before taking delivery.
Piyal.g
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Piyal.g »

Kakkaji wrote:AK-203 rifles from Amethi by end of the year say Russian officials
The Russian company has also proposed several upgrades to the rifles to include options such as an adjustable stock and sights but they have not been included in the package yet and could come as an add-on later, officials said.
It looked very odd that the ak-203 in the jawan's hand had no butt stock, seems the guns from Russia came with adjustable stocks and MOD just doesn't want to show them to us. Then it will give false hope to all defense jingoes :lol: :lol:
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Unless I am mistaken that AK203 furniture is not what we r getting.

However if things have changed there is no reason to hide it. Nothing too exciting about picatinny rails and foldable butt.

If BRF gets excited by such things then not much difference between and PakDef!!!
sohamn
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by sohamn »

ks_sachin wrote:Unless I am mistaken that AK203 furniture is not what we r getting.

However if things have changed there is no reason to hide it. Nothing too exciting about picatinny rails and foldable butt.

If BRF gets excited by such things then not much difference between and PakDef!!!

You don't realize how important adjustable butt stocks are unless all you want to do is fire from the hip. people come in all shapes and sizes and a fixed butt stock is a disadvantage for certain soldiers when it comes to aiming. In a modern army adjustable butt stock and picatinny rails are a must have when the run of the mill terrorists are popping up with telescopic sights left by unkil in talibs hand.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Thakur_B wrote:https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/ ... er-rifles/

4800 sniper rifles AON granted.

Nice but who is going to develop a precision rifle for such low numbers?
It is these sincere low orders that destroy faith in the system.
The previous order for 5700 odd rifles did not get any traction.
Yet the new order is for even fewer numbers.
Why can't IA get together with IAF, IN, NSG, and CAPF and come up with a large order?
Say 12000 rifles?
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

Mount to fit ARDE ubgl on to SiG 716
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

ramana wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/ ... er-rifles/

4800 sniper rifles AON granted.

Nice but who is going to develop a precision rifle for such low numbers?
It is these sincere low orders that destroy faith in the system.
The previous order for 5700 odd rifles did not get any traction.
Yet the new order is for even fewer numbers.
Why can't IA get together with IAF, IN, NSG, and CAPF and come up with a large order?
Say 12000 rifles?
The requirements before last order for rifles in .50 BMG and .338 Lapua combined were for 17000 plus rifles. 6000 combined quantity was ordered.

Pretty sure this is just first tranche of indigenous sniper requirements.
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Thakur_B wrote:Image

Mount to fit ARDE ubgl onto SiG 716
This is great. Now not constrained by ammo.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

More procurement coming up.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Image

Here is a quiz. How many Dogra officers in the picture?
MeshaVishwas
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Entertaining video on the AK-203, a "review" of sorts

I hope that the Army plays on the front foot and gives few pieces of this AK 203 to the industry and give them carte blanche permission to fiddle with it and improve it, maybe suppressors, maybe slings, optics, different capacity mags and others so that we do not have to go back to the Rooskies for them in the future.
This will mean the wpn stays current over time.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Lokesh Machines limited and AWEIL (ofb) are left standing for production rights of Asmi. Kalyani didn't qualify.
Bala Vignesh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Was speaking to a couple of CISF jawans in DEL and BLR airports about the new kit they have recieved, JVPC.
Both the individuals i spoke to were very happy with the ergonomics of the weapon as compared to the MP5. Unfortunately I could not get more information on how relaible the weapon was while firing, for obvious reasons. But overall what i could gather is that they were happy with the build quality and the ergonomics.
Vips
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Contenders for the upcoming 4.25 Lakh Carbine order:
SSS Defence - M72 Carbine
Kalyani Gropup and Thales Australia- F90
Kalyani Group and DRDO's ARDE-Close quarter carbine -
Adani Defence and PLR Systems - Galil Carbine
Caracal and MKU Ltd - CAR 816
Taurus and Jindal Group - T4 Carbine
CZ Bren and Counter Measures Technologies Pvt Ltd (CMTPL) - CZ Bren 2
Advanced Weapons and Equipment's Ltd - INSAS 1C based carbine :roll:
YashG
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

"Kalyani Gropup and Thales Australia- F90
Adani Defence and PLR Systems - Galil Carbine
Caracal and MKU Ltd - CAR 816
Taurus and Jindal Group - T4 Carbine
CZ Bren and Counter Measures Technologies Pvt Ltd (CMTPL) - CZ Bren 2"

this looks like screwdrivergiri list.
isubodh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by isubodh »

YashG wrote:"Kalyani Gropup and Thales Australia- F90
Adani Defence and PLR Systems - Galil Carbine
Caracal and MKU Ltd - CAR 816
Taurus and Jindal Group - T4 Carbine
CZ Bren and Counter Measures Technologies Pvt Ltd (CMTPL) - CZ Bren 2"

this looks like screwdrivergiri list.
What part they can't produce in India and will prefer to import.
Also the contract payment will be in USD/EUR or INR.
Can private player become part of supply chains ?
Amit_G
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Amit_G »

Vips wrote:Contenders for the upcoming 4.25 Lakh Carbine order:
SSS Defence - M72 Carbine
Kalyani Gropup and Thales Australia- F90
Kalyani Group and DRDO's ARDE-Close quarter carbine -
Adani Defence and PLR Systems - Galil Carbine
Caracal and MKU Ltd - CAR 816
Taurus and Jindal Group - T4 Carbine
CZ Bren and Counter Measures Technologies Pvt Ltd (CMTPL) - CZ Bren 2
Advanced Weapons and Equipment's Ltd - INSAS 1C based carbine :roll:
Why cant we look at SSS Defence products and improve upon them if necessary. That will give a lot of push to a local manufacturer. This AK203 deal has been going on for many years now and still we have unsettled issues about ToT. If Russians dont want it, let this go to an Indian player. Let them run this factory in Amethi.
ramana
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

AK 203 is baksheesh to bear.
They asked for it.
However, his cubs are not playing ball.
YashG
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

if SSS gets the contract, it will be great for SSS and it will emerge as a great domestic supplier for small arms, it could also lead to it becoming an export success.

But the MoD babus are not designed to see a small player bloom. And some palms will have to be greased to get this through. I assume it will take personal intervention from RM or PMO to allow a small firm get the contract purely on basis of merit. If someone like tasl would take up a small equity in SSS, it will allow them to get this order. Larger firms will have the lobby operations and heft in place to secure such orders.

But if firms like SSS can bloom, it will lead to a great MIC.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

IAF new combat uniform camouflage.
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Looks nice.

The marching could improve though!
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Image
Image

From grainy images it looks like an anti drone gun. The butt has marking of Bharat Electronics Limited.
Thakur_B
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Godrej aerospace has partnered with a French firm to produce and market Chimera anti drone system in India.
YashG
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Thakur_B wrote: Godrej aerospace has partnered with a French firm to produce and market Chimera anti drone system in India.
screwdrivergiri
ks_sachin
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

No YasgG.

Get your facts right.

Nuts and dolts are also involved.
YashG
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

^^^
:lol:
Bala Vignesh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

ks_sachin wrote:No YasgG.

Get your facts right.

Nuts and dolts are also involved.
These are the posts that makes me wish we had a like button or react button like whatsapp, FB, etc.
SRajesh
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Post by SRajesh »

Is it true of what’s being reported on India Today ticker tape: India to start production of AK203 by end of the year!!
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