Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

[Thakur_B]

Shivalik multi mode grenades have started reaching field in numbers. Pic is from August.

[Raghunathgb]

Shivalik multi mode grenades have started reaching field in numbers. Pic is from August.

A short but very useful video explaining features in shivalik multi mode grenades.

[Thakur_B]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/09/04/breaking-iwi-introduce-the-arad

IWI introduces ARAD rifle. Just in time for IA carbine RFP.

Just a few months back IWI had launched Ar-15 pattern piston operated rifle ARAD. Within a few months they have launched another product, Carmel.
https://iwi.net/carmel/
IWI is churning out small arms designs like the Russians.

[Thakur_B]

Looks ike SSS defence is trying to create a short stroke 7.62x39 mm rifle. Here's the image of the prototype.

[Thakur_B]

CISF SNiper training school. OFB 7.62x51 sniper rifles galore.

[Thakur_B]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 494956.cms

OFB is getting a lot of interest for Bhabha BPJ developed along with BARC, mostly from CAPF and police. This is slightly lighter at 9.5 KG than the SMPP Jackets (10 Kg) being ordered by the army against GSQR 1438.

The bureau of Indian STandards, BIS has used GSAQR 1438 to formuate the IS Code: 17051:2018 which shall be used henceforth for certification of BPJ. As per the IS code, the jackets would have to weigh 9.68 Kgs or lighter for a medium sized jacket. IIT delhi is currently working on a DRDO funded project to bring the weight down for a medium sized jacket to 7.5 Kg.

[Gyan]

I think OFB assembles MK3 Carl Gustaf from imported components at the rate of 700 per annum

[ramana]

Thakur, I noticed in US a new line of 9mm revolverscare being made.

[Thakur_B]

Thakur, I noticed in US a new line of 9mm revolverscare being made.

Yes SiG P320 family has been adopted as M17 (full size) and M18 (compact).

The pistols had an issue with going off when dropped a certain way. SiG has rectified the defects as well.

[Manish_P]

?

Didn't know Sig USA made revolvers. I thought S&W, Ruger were the ones still making them

[Manish_P]

Not connected to the Military forces as such (unless he is ex-Mil), but i am glad to see such videos coming out from our country

May his tribe increase

PS: loved the typically 'desi' flavor (using paver blocks).. plus the scenery is awesome as well.

(apologies if posted earlier)

[Thakur_B]

?

Didn't know Sig USA made revolvers. I thought S&W, Ruger were the ones still making them

Yes, they do make pistols. SiG P226 being a rather stellar example, which lost out to Beretta for the previous handgun competition of US military ad was overshadowed by Glock in civilian market.

SiG P320 is a further evolution of P226 and the pistol is entirely modular. Swap barrels, slide and recoil spring and one can easily switch between compact and full sized pistols. The family uses a common chassis for most models so even calibers can be swapped should the user require so. The trigger and firing group is modular and drop in, so it becomes easier for armourers to carry out repairs.

Truly this was the most that could be achieved with plateaued small arms design with Cz 75 and Block 17 being the last game changers.

[Thakur_B]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... le-pistol/

The Ar-18 lives on. Japanese SDF to replace Howa Type-89 (Ar-18 derivative) with new Howa 5.56 rifle which is a modernised derivative of Type 89. The rifle beat Hk416 and Scar-L for the contract.

Ar-18 is the original dark horse of military rifles which was considered to be a vastly inferior product to Ar-15, but is now the mother of every second shiny new rifle. Notable derivatives of Ar-18 or the rifles which heavily borrowed from it are
HK G36
Cz Bren 805 family
MSBS
Arx-160 family
Scar Family
Steyr Aug/f88
SA80/L85
Sig Mcx
Magpul Masada - Remington / Bushmaster ACR
Daewoo K2
And many more. The genius of Eugene Stoner to produce not one but two iconic rifles.

[ramana]

Didn't Stoner produce a whole range of weapons based on the 5.56mm cartridge?

After Browning he is a great gunsmith.

[Thakur_B]

Didn't Stoner produce a whole range of weapons based on the 5.56mm cartridge?

After Browning he is a great gunsmith.

The third iconic design of Eugene Stoner was the Stoner 63. The gun was built like Lego kits. Apart from rifle and carbine variants, it could be converted into Bren like top fed lmg, belt fed lmg, tripod mounted machine gun, a solenoid fired automated machine gun like the NSVT and light enough to be carried by special forces. It was the go to choice of US special forces in Vietnam war. The rifle though great in concept didn't leave a mark much beyond that.

[ramana]

Someone please post the full text.

Last minute changes to Shivalik Grenade confuse

[Manish_P]

^

A last-minute change in standards for making the latest multimodal hand grenades that are set to replace the World War II era M36 grenades used by the Indian Army has raised questions. The new grenades will be made by Ordnance Factory Khamaria (OFK) and a private sector entity from Nagpur.

Nagpur’s Economic Explosives Limited (EEL) has emerged as the sole qualifying private company to bid for the hand grenade contract. Request for Proposal (RFP), the document inviting bids, has been issued to EEL as the sole qualifier. The key parameter in a hand grenades’ functioning is the timing of explosion. A specific timing has to be fixed for the grenade to blow up after its pin is pulled. For the multimodal grenades, it has to be not before 3.5 seconds and not later than 4.5 seconds.

After the RFP was issued, an amendment was made allowing leeway for 10% of the production batch. No 5% of the grenades can have a timing between 3.5 and 4.75 seconds and another 5% can have timing between 3.5 and 5 seconds. This happened around August this year following a meeting to discuss the project in the ministry of defence, said a source. The initial delay is needed to ensure the grenade does not blow up in soldier’s hand but it should also not give the enemy enough time to throw it back. A leeway for 10% of the production batch comes as a surprise, said sources involved in the development of the weapon.

Both EEL and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) officials denied asking for any relaxation. Both sides said they had already achieved over 99% accuracy in maintaining the 3.5 to 4.5 seconds bandwidth during trials so there was no question of them asking for easing the norms. Representatives of EEL management showed TOI a trial report that read the grenade made by the company had achieved more than 99% accuracy. A company official accepted there was a subsequent change in requirements.

OFB officials maintained no change in requirement has been intimated to them. This is because OFB will not be getting an order through RFP. An indent will be placed directly by the army to them. OFK will stick to the 3.5 to 4.5 timing, said an OFB official. “Had the concession been allowed earlier, OFB would have been able to start making grenades in 2012 itself as it was already developed but perfect timings could not be achieved. The project started in 2005 and it took over a decade for the OFB to achieve the timing. Now relaxation for even 10% of the batch is no longer needed,” said an OFB official. EEL came into the picture in 2015, even as OFB was working on the project much earlier, the source said.

OFB has fired a couple of thousand rounds during the trials after which the product was cleared. Even after clearing the timings test, questions were raised about the ring on the grenade by which it is fixed to hold it by the finger. A clarification was needed on the material used for making the ring. There was another query related to rust seen on a joint. With all questions answered, OFB is now waiting for the army to issue production order. For the private sector, RFP process will continue.

[Karan M]

Finally. OFB meets the QA/QC standards required. And so does the pvt vendor. Can't express how momentous this event is.

[Thakur_B]

I don't get it. The images of Shivalik being used in field have been floating around. Did we use pre production standard grenades in field or a similar looking imported product is being used?

[Thakur_B]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 147568.cms

Punj Loyd has sold it's stake in IWI jv which has been picked up by Adani group.

[ramana]

Basically the specification was 4 +/- 0.5 secs. Derived from 3.5 to 4.5 secs

Both suppliers say they achieved 99% of the lot i.e. 1 % rejection.

However the report says 5% of lot are allowed to be 3.5 to 4.75 secs and another 5% of lot 3.5 to 5 secs.

These two lots imply a shift in nominal of 125 to 250 milli-secs from 4.0 secs. i.e 4.125 to 4.25 secs

This implies the delay is longer than the spec.

So how can this be true?

Most likely the lot sizes are very large.
the 99% compliance is for small lot production at the suppliers.

As for relaxing the timer band its being relaxed on the right hand side or allows more delay.
But it has to function at safe distance of 3.5 secs.
The Army wants the grenade and there is less likely someone will pick up and throw it back especially when the lower end is kept at 3.5 secs.

I think this a good decision as it allows 10% of the lot to be accepted and improves the yield.

However both suppilers should work on tightening the production process to bring the time inot specification.


My hunch is the explosive train in the tube has variation in the compacting force. Loose powder will burn slowly.

From Sivakasi knowledge.

[ramana]

Thakur saab, What is the timer spec for M36 grenade?
That will give us more insight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_bomb

Ok the timer initially was 7 secs delay and led to the Germans throwing it back or escaping the blast.
The timer was then reduced to 4 secs nominal.

At first the grenade was fitted with a seven-second fuse but in the Battle of France in 1940 this delay proved to be too long, giving defenders time to escape the explosion, or even to throw the grenade back and therefore the fuse was reduced to four seconds.

So the timing specification is from M 36 mechanical fuse.

In US the M 67 grenade uses the M213 pyrotechnic delay fuze....
Its fuze delays detonation between 4 and 5 seconds after the spoon is released.

So the Shivalik timing is within what's achieved by US too.

[Vips]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/adani-buys-unit-in-gwalior-to-enter-small-arms-business/articleshow/73147568.cms

Punj Loyd has sold it's stake in IWI jv which has been picked up by Adani group.

This is good news. Punj Lloyd have not done anything worthwhile in the last 10-15 years. This business is for someone with really deep pockets.

As of now the meaningful and serious Pvt Sector players are : L&T, Bharat Forge, TATAS, Mahindra and Adani. I just hope that Reliance Group (Mukesh Ambani) starts a really aggressive foray into the Aerospace and Defense sector. Things will change dramatically and fast.

[Thakur_B]

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ons/538523

The issue of held up purchase of Caracal 816 carbine and Negev LMG under fast track induction to be discussed in DAC meeting on 17th.

[Thakur_B]

Thakur saab, What is the timer spec for M36 grenade?
That will give us more insight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_bomb

Ok the timer initially was 7 secs delay and led to the Germans throwing it back or escaping the blast.
The timer was then reduced to 4 secs nominal.

At first the grenade was fitted with a seven-second fuse but in the Battle of France in 1940 this delay proved to be too long, giving defenders time to escape the explosion, or even to throw the grenade back and therefore the fuse was reduced to four seconds.

So the timing specification is from M 36 mechanical fuse.

In US the M 67 grenade uses the M213 pyrotechnic delay fuze....
Its fuze delays detonation between 4 and 5 seconds after the spoon is released.

So the Shivalik timing is within what's achieved by US too.

The original 7 second delay was meant for both hand and rifle launched grenades. Later on, the M36, more commonly referred to as Mills Bomb Grenade came in two variants, 4 second fuse for hand launch and 7 second fuse for rifle launch. The brits were proven right about the possibility of grenade being thrown back under 7 seconds and they were proven right by none other than Lachhiman Gurung of Gurkha Rifles, who successfully threw back two live Type 10 grenades with a fuse time of 7-8 seconds tossed at his position. He, however was unlucky with the third one, but managed to survive.

Shivalik saga reflects poorly on the procurement process. The damn thing was ready in 2011 and now once everything is settled to the requirements of user, they fall back to the standards which would have permitted it's induction possible a decade back. What is the MoD and Army expecting now, nominal cost cutting due to relaxed QC standards on timer fuses after waiting for a decade ? Ack thoo.

[Thakur_B]

Looks ike SSS defence is trying to create a short stroke 7.62x39 mm rifle. Here's the image of the prototype.

Do lookout for SSS in Defexpo 20.

[Thakur_B]

CRPF has started to receive Excalibur Mk1 which they had ordered.

[Thakur_B]

Looks ike SSS defence is trying to create a short stroke 7.62x39 mm rifle. Here's the image of the prototype.

Do lookout for SSS in Defexpo 20.

More products incoming from SSS defence.

[Thakur_B]

Few years back IA was on the hunt for new 9 mm pistols for PARA SF. IWI Jericho pistols (modernised Cz-75) have been spotted here and there for the past few years in the pictures that leak on to the social media, but never in the official releases.



This time on Army day PARA SF were equipped with side arms as standard equipment, which wasn't seen earlier. Looks like a large batch of IWI Jericho has finally been procured for SF.

[Thakur_B]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/202 ... chine-gun/

US SOCOM has dipped its toe by purchasing SiG Saur's MMG in .338 Norma Magnum (not to be confused with .338 Lapua Magnum)

This new cartridge promises to offer the range of .50 BMG in an MMG package lighter than M240B (Latest iteration of Fn Mag in US service).

SiG is offering hybrid case ammunition (mix of steel and Brass case) which utilises existing ammo manufacturing plants compared to competition which has opted for caseless or cased telescopic or polymer cased ammo. SiGs technology promises 20-25% more energy compared to conventional ammunition. The hybrid case developed by SiG can be loaded with stronger propellant without causing case rupture or extraction issues.

[Thakur_B]

The OFB/ARDE carbine has been revealed. Would most certainly be visible during Defexpo 2020.

[Thakur_B]

Bottom right, new variant of TAR with new furniture and full length picatinny rails.

Edit: a poster in background in other images indicates this may be a a new variant for CI, the barrel and gas tube appear to be short like krinkov.

[Thakur_B]

Sniper rifle 336 by OFB.
https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/ ... dards.html
The hitavada newspaper says it is sniper rifle 336. It could be a typo and it may be 338 for lapua Magnum 338 round. The magwell indicates large caliber round.

[Thakur_B]

28November 2019 www.geopolitics.in

INTERVIEW
‘BHABHA KAVACH GIVES THE SOLDIER MULTI-SHOT CAPABILITY’
With the defence and police forces of the nation facing increasing threats from terrorists and hostile bullets at the border, Indian PSUs have come up with innovative solutions and better body-armour products than many of their Western counterparts. The onus now lies upon the union and state governments to prepare the order books for keeping the production lines running. COLONEL ASHWANI KUMAR (RETD.) (Deputy General Manager- Marketing and Armouring), Head Armouring Business, Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited, examines the latest indigenous technologies in manufacturing best quality bulletproof jackets in this interview with AMARTYA SINHA

What are the products on offer for Indian defence forces?
Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited is a leading PSU which specialises in making strategic materials. Other than the traditional strategic materials, we were told by the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Home Affairs to develop bulletproof jackets for armed forces and paramilitary personnel in 2017. From that point, we took on that as a challenge and now we are manufacturing 17 such products for central armed police forces. Among them, our prime products are ‘Bhabha Kavach’ which happens to be one of the lightest bulletproof jackets in its class in the world. No one else has been able to make it other than MDNL. We have got the technology from Bhabha Atomic Research Centre in Mumbai and the product has been made based on that. Other than bulletproof jackets, we also do armour of helicopters. Armouring of troop-carrying vehicles is also done by MDNL. Other personnel and group production equipment are also made for the central armed police forces as well as defence forces. Since we are already a material making company, we could produce a very lightweight material for all these products. So, each and every product of MDNL is quite unique in that way.

As far as bulletproof jackets are concerned, there is a growing consensus among our strategic policymakers that the Indian armed forces should opt for Kevlar vests with modular design. What is your take on this?

Kevlar is an old design. We have many new technologies which are far superior than that. We have the high-molecular weight polyethylene with the carbon nanotube. The weight has been reduced drastically by using this new formula. With 360-degree protection of the human body, whereas a normal jacket weighs around 11 kg, our indigenous jacket is just of 9.5 kg. So, we have successfully reduced 1.5 kg weight and that would matter a lot for a soldier deployed in the battlefield. The infantryman’s fatigue level will decrease. Moreover, unlike other body armours, the Bhabha Kavach gives the soldier multi-shot capability because of its modular design.

Can such body armour resist 7.62mm rifle and machinegun bullets?
That’s a very good question which you have asked. Well, not just 7.62mm bullets, the Bhabha Kavach can even resist APM (armour-piercing) rounds and grenade splinters. It is a Level-4 product. So, you can well imagine how strong and durable the thing is.

What about other ancillary pieces of body armour like helmets, knee-pads, elbow-pads and groin-pads? What is MDNL doing to develop such products indigenously?

We are already working on new generation Kevlar as well as steel helmets. Knee pads are already in production. The technology already exists for making the other products which you have mentioned. It is the prerogative of the government whether such products are required to be acquired for our armed forces. Weight issues play an important role in the battlefield.

Are these products deployed with the armed forces? How has been the journey so far? How do you see the emerging domestic and international markets?

We started our journey in 2017. We have done a combined marketing worth around `40 crores till now. As far as the market dynamics are concerned, there is tremendous scope in India but the quality of products has always been a challenge. The testing procedure is very long. But MDNL has developed the requisite technologies with the best of backup resources. We are masters in technology development and fabrication. But 40 to 50 percent of the raw materials still have to be imported. Polyethylene fibre is still not produced in India. We are looking for collaborations with global partners who can give us the technology for producing polyethylene fibre in India. It requires a huge investment ranging between `500 crores to `1000 crores. We are hopeful that the union government will give us the necessary budgetary support.

What are some of your ongoing R&D projects?

We are currently working on high nitrogen steel. Other than this, we are also developing products for preventing back injuries of soldiers by using specialised silicon kind of rubber. We are also working on lightweight armours by using a blend of metal and ceramics. These new generation armours can be installed on aerial assets like helicopters which will prove to be a boon for our armed forces in the near future.

How accommodative is MDNL towards Indian SMEs for manufacturing the current range of products?

We have a very productive ecosystem which is very much welcoming towards SMEs. They are already a part of our entire production cycle. Most of our projects’ backend are handled by SMEs.

What is your long-term vision? How do you see India emerging as a global manufacturing hub of such products in the distant future?
You see, in 2010 India was producing very low-technology level products in the domain of body armour. We have invested a lot and we have been able to come up to the current standards within a timespan of just three years. If we keep on working at such breakneck speeds, India will be able to cater to the needs of not just South East Asia and the Latin America, but also African countries, Far East Asia and Middle-Eastern nations in the next 5-6 years. We are on course towards mastering all three areas of armour: steel, ceramic and polyethylene. The future is very bright and the potential enormous.

Bhabha BPJ might be a Level-IV jacket and is lighter than contemporary jackets being issued by any major force currently. The SMPP orders will be done by this year, army will go for the next round, for remaining balance requirements.

With our economy of scale, we may wreck the world market. PLA as of now does not issue body armour as standard to its troops. We on the other hand are racing ahead. Very heartening.

[Thakur_B]

However, the million-rupee question that rises in one’s mind is: Why is the government opting for the AK-203 rifle at a time when the OFB has already developed a similar automatic assault rifle capable of firing higher calibre rounds (7.62 x 51mm). The new, indigenously-developed automatic assault rifle that can fire the 7.62 x 51mm ammunition has passed all trials in allweather conditions and is finally on the verge of operational readiness, as confirmed by Vivek C Verma, Secretary, Indian Ordnance Factory Board. “The much awaited 7.62 x 51mm automatic assault weapon is finally ready to be mass produced if the Indian Army opts for it. The breakthrough reportedly came earlier this year after a project management team constituted by the Ministry of Defence, Government of India re-evaluated and re-assessed the weapon through repeated trials in all weather conditions after some recent setbacks,” he said.

Boosting soldier lethality
Geopolitics magazine article, Nov 19.

The status of OFB 7.62x51 AR-2. Take it fwiw and a large helping of salt.

[Vips]

India police decommission historic British-era rifles.

Police in northern India on Sunday (Jan 26) bid goodbye to the historic British-era bolt-action rifles after using them for one last salute during the annual Republic Day parade.

The Lee-Enfield .303 rifle was the main firearm of British colonial military forces and, despite being designated "obsolete" around 25 years ago, it has been the main weapon used by police in Uttar Pradesh state over seven decades.

The rifle - used by the British during the two World Wars - fires one shot at a time, after which the barrel needs to be reloaded by pulling the bolt.

"They have been in use since independence (from the British in 1947) and now they'll be replaced by INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) and SLRs (Self-Loading Rifles)," said police superintendent Amit Verma.

As many as 45,000 of the rifles were being used by the state police, Verma said, and the model was a favourite among constables due to accuracy and sturdiness.

"This (.303) rifle is a fantastic weapon and has served us brilliantly in various operations in the past," police additional director general Bijaya Kumar Maurya told AFP. "But it being a bolt action weapon with low magazine capacity, it was time for a change. Its production has also discontinued so there was all the more need for an upgrade."

Maurya said the new automatic rifles would "add to the confidence of our officers" and would result in improved policing. "The criminals will naturally face the heat when they'll face officers armed with automatic weapons."

The rifles will be returned to a gun factory in Ishapore in West Bengal state where they will be converted into anti-riot guns, spokesman Saurabh Singh told AFP. (70 years hence there will be a similar phasing out ceremeony for these anti-riot guns )

Saroj Kumar Mishra, a constable with the Uttar Pradesh police since 1982, said he would miss the heavy-duty rifle."The weapon is as smooth as butter even after 20 rounds of back-to-back firing," he was quoted as saying by the Hindustan Times newspaper. "This feature is perhaps the most important one which we often miss in the modern day weapons."

[ramana]

Good idea to refurbish these 45K rifles for anti-riot use.
Basically to fire rubber bullets.

Also the .303. round is/will be phased out.

The British refurbished some of these SMLE rifles with 7.62mm barrels and made sniper rifles out of them.
But don't know the value.

[ramana]

US gun stores used to sell old SMLE rifles a decade ago.

[Thakur_B]

Brazilian Arms maker Taurus to get into a JV with Jindal group.
https://www.reuters.com/article/taurus- ... SE6N27M00X

^^ Taurus group makes some decent value for money pistols. Their G3 pistol is getting rave reviews in US small arms civilian market in it's budget range, being available for $250 compared to $500 for more well known brands.

[Thakur_B]

For the first time we are getting a small arms ecosystem in india.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/12 ... 1970847745

Sniper rifles simulation package by Xarpie labs. The simulation hardware is mounted on SSS defence sniper rifle.