Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

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Atmavik
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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Atmavik » 30 Oct 2019 10:15

Gyan wrote:Sig 7.62x51 is a very accurate rifle. I wonder if Army will use it as DMR also? By equipping it with a scope.

Sig & HK have improved metallurgy of rifles to the extent that standard rifle can be used as LMG & DMR also.

It would be interesting to see if Army equips these rifles with bipods, scopes & other accessories to make more versatile use of this weapon

Also I wonder, if we getting or obtaining better ammunition tech from SIG for manufacturing rounds for this rifle?



yes we are getting the scopes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpHevm-JVg

looks like we are standardizing on sig for frontline soldiers and AK 203 for Army RR, para military, navy and airforce. but isnt 72k order of Sig too small for all infantry?

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby darshhan » 30 Oct 2019 12:02

Atmavik wrote:
Gyan wrote:Sig 7.62x51 is a very accurate rifle. I wonder if Army will use it as DMR also? By equipping it with a scope.

Sig & HK have improved metallurgy of rifles to the extent that standard rifle can be used as LMG & DMR also.

It would be interesting to see if Army equips these rifles with bipods, scopes & other accessories to make more versatile use of this weapon

Also I wonder, if we getting or obtaining better ammunition tech from SIG for manufacturing rounds for this rifle?



yes we are getting the scopes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpHevm-JVg

looks like we are standardizing on sig for frontline soldiers and AK 203 for Army RR, para military, navy and airforce. but isnt 72k order of Sig too small for all infantry?


There is a provision for follow on order for these rifles. i.e if the Army is satisfied with Sig's performance.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 31 Oct 2019 04:08

IIRC, the para military forces not involved on duties on the border will be equipped with Excalibur and new 7.62 MM assault rifle developed by OFB/IRF.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby souravB » 02 Nov 2019 02:35

Sig Sauer NGSW entries with caliber 6.8x51

MG 6.8 & .338 NM SLMAG


SLX-Spear


Interesting to note a mounted optic with LRF.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 02 Nov 2019 11:21

"Sig 7.62x51 is a very accurate rifle. I wonder if Army will use it as DMR also? By equipping it with a scope.
"

The DMR version of the SIG 716 is already in the service with the NSG

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2019 04:48

ramana wrote:In other words modernize the ammo manufacturing plant with OFB.

Thakur_B and or Gyan,
Where is the 40mm rifle grenade made?
Is it imported?

One more thing is the BPJ and kevlar helmets will be made available to the front line troops of all types: Army, RR, BSF, and CAPF



OFB makes the 40mm grenade in three different models.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 26 Nov 2019 08:38

Sandeep Unnithan reports that ARDE is working on new long stroke 6.8x43 mm rifle, which is consistent with what Saurav Jha had earlier reported about renewed interest in 6.8 mm ammo. This may be linked to the long stroke carbine in works and might be a further development of the same.
Image

This is interesting to note because US Army is also planning to procure 1,00,000 of new 6.8x43 mm rifles for limited fielding before taking a decision on standardising on the new round. The trials are expexted to start soon with all the bidders bringing in their own improved cartidge design. Interestingly, SiG has made advancement in cartridge design for the 6.8 ammo, using steel and brass instead of just brass, allowing up to 50% more pressure than regular cartirdge design.
----------------
https://indiandefenceindustries.in/indi ... -sfweapons

HK416 and baretts likely coming in for the AFSOD.
--------------------------
Image

After seemingly acquiring a small number of SCAR-H and SCAR-L, another new weapon type has been displayed by NSG, i.e., the SiG MPX (9x19 parabellum). Attach a silencer on this baby with subsonic ammunition and this SMG goes hollywood quiet, and that is no exagerration. It might be possible that NSG is trying out replacements for Sig-550 series and HK MP5 series of weapons with limited adoption, before making a big jump.

--------------------------
Image
The IAF seems to have an interest in drum magazines suited for Tavor. As tactical as it sounds, drum magazines on bullpups are a very bad idea. Had they not mentioned Tavor, one might have gotten the impression that they were hunting for drum magazines for their Fn-Minimis, which have a famously unreliable magazine feed mechanism. It might be possible that like US marines, they might be exploring using a regular rifle as a replacement for Minimi, replacing them with Hk-416.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Nov 2019 08:13

Image
Image

Indian Army’s Infantry School and College of Military Engineering were the cynosure of all eyes at Def-Connect 2019 where the former showcased its prototype of 5.56 caliber rifle and the latter its full body bullet proof suit. Innovation in the forces eventually getting recognised.


https://www.aviation-defence-universe.c ... mods-idex/

Back from the dead. Insas bullpup configuration as a prototype by IA.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Nov 2019 08:39

Image

Shivalik multi mode grenade in the flesh against the current grenade model in use. It is being produced by the Solar group.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Nov 2019 14:18

Infantry equipment update:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SJha1618/sta ... 0606490624

Wildcraft India has been selected by MoD to make Rucksacks for IA.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 30 Nov 2019 21:51

Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image

Indian Army’s Infantry School and College of Military Engineering were the cynosure of all eyes at Def-Connect 2019 where the former showcased its prototype of 5.56 caliber rifle and the latter its full body bullet proof suit. Innovation in the forces eventually getting recognised.


https://www.aviation-defence-universe.c ... mods-idex/

Back from the dead. Insas bullpup configuration as a prototype by IA.


Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2019 22:02

Thakur_B wrote:Infantry equipment update:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SJha1618/sta ... 0606490624

Wildcraft India has been selected by MoD to make Rucksacks for IA.


As a long time customer, I am darn happy! Their quality rocks.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2019 22:05

Vips wrote:Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.


So, how do you know the underlying design is faulty and what the Armed forces are doing is wrong? Do you have cent per cent information to confirm either of the above? Meaningless rants add little to the discussion. Improve your post quality.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Dec 2019 07:00

Vips wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image



https://www.aviation-defence-universe.c ... mods-idex/

Back from the dead. Insas bullpup configuration as a prototype by IA.


Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.


Vips ji, the prototype is by IA infantry school. Insas bullpup was rejected donkey years back by IA.
Image

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 01 Dec 2019 11:00

Thakur_B wrote:
Shivalik multi mode grenade in the flesh against the current grenade model in use. It is being produced by the Solar group.


These will eventually replace all the grenades in our inventory correct ?

Thakur ji, do you image of the US multi-mode grenade concept. I saw it some time back (on a twitter post) but cant find it now. They were cylinder shaped and stackable as in 3 could be attached to one other.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 01 Dec 2019 19:16

Thakur_B wrote:
Vips wrote:
Nice Babudom is showing they are doing something and justifying their salaries by churning out prototypes/versions/upgradations/improvements of what is basically a failed rifle. How many designs of the Insas are floating around and are being worked on? Are our Armed forces going to accept any of it when they have rejected the original design based rifle? If the underlying design is faulty then why waste tax payers money to do this time pass? Why cant they start on a clean sheet design and develop a new rifle?
What will ultimately happen is to justify the investment in development/subsequent manufacturing in such weapons, it will be forced on our armed/paramilitary/police forces even if they are not satisfied with it.


Vips ji, the prototype is by IA infantry school. Insas bullpup was rejected donkey years back by IA.
Image


Thank You sirji. The point i was trying to make was that it is a futile exercise to build something on (INSAS rifle) which has had so many issues, was junked by our forces and is being replaced.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 01 Dec 2019 21:08

Manish_P wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:
Shivalik multi mode grenade in the flesh against the current grenade model in use. It is being produced by the Solar group.


These will eventually replace all the grenades in our inventory correct ?

Thakur ji, do you image of the US multi-mode grenade concept. I saw it some time back (on a twitter post) but cant find it now. They were cylinder shaped and stackable as in 3 could be attached to one other.


There's a Norwegian company making those and it is used by some US SF teams.

Image

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 02 Dec 2019 10:13

^ Yes. Those look like it.

It was just a point of interest.

Thanks.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Dec 2019 17:21

http://epaper.mailtoday.in/c/46428002

Sandeep Unnithan reports that SPG is buying small number of JVPC. This would be a big stamp of approval from a premiere organisation.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Bala Vignesh » 03 Dec 2019 16:31

Thakur_B wrote:http://epaper.mailtoday.in/c/46428002

Sandeep Unnithan reports that SPG is buying small number of JVPC. This would be a big stamp of approval from a premiere organisation.

Amazing news if true!! Would help boost the image of the weapon over all!!

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 03 Dec 2019 16:44

The earlier CRPF order of 10,000 is also mentioned.

Foreign arms dealers haven't infiltrated CAPF's and Home Ministry, so these services can place orders based on what meets their requirements.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Bala Vignesh » 03 Dec 2019 16:48

Wouldn't this make more sense for the CISF's Airport security group too? Wonder if they have evaluated it and if so what their observations were?

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 03 Dec 2019 18:09

tsarkar wrote:The earlier CRPF order of 10,000 is also mentioned.


JVPC is scoring big time with police forces. They don't need full powered cartridge, just sufficient to defeat body armour in worst case scenario, and lugging around a full sized rifle makes no sense.

I expect JVPC orders to exceed 1 lac in coming years.

Foreign arms dealers haven't infiltrated CAPF's and Home Ministry, so these services can place orders based on what meets their requirements.


CAPF have been quicker to Dump INSAS. All you see them sporting are Arsenal AKMs. ITBP has ordered Ghatak and then there are some token orders for trichy AKM as well.

Bala Vignesh wrote:Wouldn't this make more sense for the CISF's Airport security group too? Wonder if they have evaluated it and if so what their observations were?


CISF have ordered unknown numbers of JVPC.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby darshhan » 03 Dec 2019 19:48

Thakur_B wrote:
tsarkar wrote:The earlier CRPF order of 10,000 is also mentioned.


JVPC is scoring big time with police forces. They don't need full powered cartridge, just sufficient to defeat body armour in worst case scenario, and lugging around a full sized rifle makes no sense.

I expect JVPC orders to exceed 1 lac in coming years.

Foreign arms dealers haven't infiltrated CAPF's and Home Ministry, so these services can place orders based on what meets their requirements.


CAPF have been quicker to Dump INSAS. All you see them sporting are Arsenal AKMs. ITBP has ordered Ghatak and then there are some token orders for trichy AKM as well.

Bala Vignesh wrote:Wouldn't this make more sense for the CISF's Airport security group too? Wonder if they have evaluated it and if so what their observations were?


CISF have ordered unknown numbers of JVPC.


This is actually interesting. From what I have seen CAPf's including CRPF are outfitted better than Indian Army including weapons. Proves that IA's procurement system is a mess and grip of dalal mafia is very strong.

However BSF did mess one deal. Beretta carbine deal. Only God knows why the hell BSF needed a 9mm carbine. That too in such substantial quantities.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Dec 2019 20:28

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 211084805/

First batch of 10000 SiG 716 delivered to Northern Command.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 12 Dec 2019 16:35

^^^^
From Dailyexcelsior.com:After Spike ATGMs, Army deploys 10,000 SiG assault rifles in J&K
AMMU, Dec 11: The anti-terror operations in Jammu and Kashmir especially the Valley and the Line of Control (LoC) have got a major boost with induction of 10,000 newly acquired American made SiG Sauer assault rifles, which have been purchased on fast track basis, amid reports that security forces planned to intensify operations during winter when the militants will come down to plains.
Official sources told the Excelsior that India has received first consignment of 10,000 SiG 716 assault rifles manufactured by United States major arms manufacturing company SiG Sauer and all of them have been sent to the Udhampur-based Northern Command Headquarters under whose jurisdiction entire Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir barring three border districts of Jammu, Samba and Kathua, falls.
India had signed an agreement with the American company for supply of 72,400 new assault rifles for the Indian troops to give them major advantage during anti-militancy operations in hinterland of the Union Territory as well as Line of Control (LoC) with Pakistan in Rajouri, Poonch, Baramulla and Kupwara districts.
The SiG Sauer SiG 716 7.62×51 mm assault rifles will replace the Indian made 5.56x45mm Insas rifles, sources said.
The American company, according to sources, has delivered first consignment of 10,000 sophisticated rifles to India out of a total of 72,400 rifles for which the contract has been given to them. The rifles will be manufactured in the United States and supplied within a year as the contract has been made on fast track requirement.
“Out of a total of 72,400 rifles, the Indian Army is scheduled to get the lion’s share of 66,000 while the Indian Air Force (IAF) will get 4000 and the Indian Navy 2000,” sources said, adding that bulk of weapons will go to the Northern Command based on their requirement as it was fighting Pakistan-sponsored militancy in the Kashmir valley and infiltration attempts by Pakistan-based militants on the Line of Control.
Sources said apart from 10,000 American made rifles, the Indian Army has also started getting supplies of ammunition for its sniper rifles as more than 21 lakh rounds have been ordered from the vendors.
The Indian Army will also receive major boost with induction of more than seven lakh AK-203 rifles which will be produced in the joint venture between India and Russia.
In view of continued ceasefire violations by Pakistan army, the Indian Army will also shortly deploy recently acquired Spike Anti-Tank Guided Missiles along the LoC with Pakistan in Jammu and Kashmir.
The Spike missiles can be used in the bunker buster mode.
The Indian Army has received 240 Spike Anti-Tank Guided Missiles and their 12 launchers from Israel on fast track mode to meet emergency requirements especially along the LoC with Pakistan in Jammu and Kashmir where ceasefire violations, infiltration attempts etc have increased following Balakote air raids by India on February 24 and scrapping of special Constitutional provisions of Jammu and Kashmir and its bifurcation into two Union Territories of J&K and Ladakh on August 5 this year.
The missiles which are supposed to be mainly used for anti-tank operations can also be quite helpful for destroying hardened shelters or bunkers in which the militants might be hiding.
Indian Army had recently targeted camps and launch pads of the militants along the Line of Control about a month ago in which number of militants and Pakistan army personnel were killed.
Faced with increased presence of militants including hardcore cadre of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) and Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) militant outfits at launching pads close to the LoC with full backing of Pakistan army in twin border districts of Rajouri and Poonch in Jammu region and Baramulla and Kupwara in Kashmir, the Indian troops have been taking series of measures to thwart intrusions.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Dec 2019 16:33

Indian Army gets new American assault rifles in Kashmir Valley to combat terror activities. According to Indian Army sources, Army has started inducting 1st batch of 10,000 Sig Sauer assault rifles for counter terrorist operations in J&K.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/news/indian-army-gets-new-american-assault-rifles-in-kashmir-valley-to-combat-terror-activities/videoshow/72466941.cms


twitter

Indian Army gets new American assault rifles for counter-terrorism operations in #JammuAndKashmir.

Dec 10




Image

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Dec 2019 17:15

I dont think Sig 716 are for counter terror- Ak-203 are for that, these are for the LOC where the longer engagement ranges of the Nato 7.62*51 round are more useful.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 19 Dec 2019 07:23

Image

Carl Gustav Mk4 spotted during Indo Russian exercise. OFB had started manufacturing Mk3 a few years back, superseding mk2 production. Mk4 have been imported in small quantities.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 19 Dec 2019 07:54

Sandeep Unnithan reports
Image

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 19 Dec 2019 08:11

Thakur_B wrote:
Carl Gustav Mk4 spotted during Indo Russian exercise. OFB had started manufacturing Mk3 a few years back, superseding mk2 production. Mk4 have been imported in small quantities.


Oh nice. Lighter and better. Very nice indeed.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 19 Dec 2019 08:55

M4 is in service for a long time. Its one of those weapons IA loves.
Image

The airburst shells is phenomenal and useful against enemies hidden in foliage & rocks. This was used to a great effect in Sierra Leone Operation Kukhri.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 19 Dec 2019 09:05

tsarkar wrote:M4 is in service for a long time. Its one of those weapons IA loves.
Image

The airburst shells is phenomenal and useful against enemies hidden in foliage & rocks. This was used to a great effect in Sierra Leone Operation Kukhri.


Mk4 variant is fairly new and was introduced in 2014. Indian forces were using mk2 back then.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 19 Dec 2019 09:13

Yes, by long time I meant 3+ years. Older versions used in Sierra Leone. India is the largest user of Carl Gustaf. Also extensively used by IN as a part of small arms onboard ships. Useful in countering swarm attacks.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 19 Dec 2019 09:29

Has the Guided Round been developed yet?

Saab had claimed to develop it with LOAL combined with dual motor soft launch.

Would be quite useful capability

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 20 Dec 2019 08:19

An informative video on history of modern Body armour.

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby hnair » 20 Dec 2019 10:11

tsarkar wrote:
The airburst shells is phenomenal and useful against enemies hidden in foliage & rocks. This was used to a great effect in Sierra Leone Operation Kukhri.


How does the airburst fuzing work? Is it via feed from laser-rangefinding like the original OICW concept?

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 20 Dec 2019 19:18

hnair wrote:How does the airburst fuzing work?

On older models airburst is via timer set before loading the round. The top of the round has markings and one twists it to the desired time before loading. Since speed is known, the timer decides the range at which the round will explode

The second mode is HE FRAG where the round penetrates a wall and then explodes the balls. Super effective in Kashmir.

OFB makes the round in India for a long time

https://ofb.gov.in/product/products/pro ... -ffv-441-b

It is assembled with a dual purpose fuze. On bursting of the projectile, the steel balls 850 (Nos) act as splinters.


"Splinters" is gross understatement and/or very poor english

hnair wrote:Is it via feed from laser-rangefinding like the original OICW concept?


On the newer M4 model, as you described

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/the- ... r-smarter/

The 84 mm HE 441D (High Explosive) can be set for impact or air burst detonation for combating troops in the open, behind cover, or in trenches as well as unarmored vehicles and similar types of targets. On this new HE- grenade with the fuze is set automatically by the advanced sight when the gunner aims at the target and uses the laser for range finding or puts the range data manually into the sight. The grenade will then get a computed ballistic flight with time setting for detonation effect at right range and at right height. The new grenade has a much more effective warhead than the old one.


https://saabgroup.com/media/stories/lon ... ound-hero/

“The M4 can be fitted with an intelligent sight that can communicate with the rounds to increase the probability of hit,” Arvidsson says. “The sight looks at factors like the temperature of the propellant to carry out more accurate ballistic calculations. The gunner can choose whether a round should airburst, explode on impact, or penetrate a wall.”

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 20 Dec 2019 20:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbbwDSM6f4Y

The first and second round are the airburst. The timer setting is also shown

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Re: Small Armaments & Infantry Equipment - News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 21 Dec 2019 05:58



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