Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

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Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Nikhil T » 15 Aug 2019 09:11

Mod Note: Last Page of Previous Thread on this Topic ----> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6410&start=320

==============================

Creating a thread to discuss PM Modi’s big announcement.

From his Twitter:
Our forces are India's pride.

To further sharpen coordination between the forces, I want to announce a major decision from the Red Fort:

India will have a Chief of Defence Staff- CDS.

This is going to make the forces even more effective: PM @narendramodi

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Rakesh » 15 Aug 2019 09:17

I just saw that on someone's twitter feed. Very Good.

He is making all his chess moves. Impressive.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby vivek_ahuja » 15 Aug 2019 09:18

:shock:

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Karthik S » 15 Aug 2019 09:21

:)

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Kashi » 15 Aug 2019 09:23

Another tick on the check list.

Slowly but steadily we move ahead.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby VikramA » 15 Aug 2019 09:48

can someone better informed tell me the significance of this in practical terms not in theory. and how this will work without Joint or unified theater commands.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Ankit Desai » 15 Aug 2019 10:11

Happy 73rd Independence Day !!!!

Image

-Ankit

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Ankit Desai » 15 Aug 2019 10:12

And worthy enough to bring out Vivek.

vivek_ahuja wrote: :shock:


-Ankit

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Rakesh » 15 Aug 2019 10:40

VikramA wrote:can someone better informed tell me the significance of this in practical terms not in theory. and how this will work without Joint or unified theater commands.

It will be challenging to appreciate the full essence of the practical terms without a strong foundation in the theory. I would strongly suggest you go through this thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6410

Also read up on this (about theatre commands). A very old article, but the theory is there.

Re-Organisation of Indian Defence Setup
https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/tod ... ation.html

Chief of Defence Staff is the first step Sir. Joint Theatre Commands will come soon.

The Prime Minister is a visionary. Very impressed by his moves.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby g.sarkar » 15 Aug 2019 10:41

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/pm-a ... 190815.htm
PM announces creation of Chief of Defence Staff
August 15, 2019 09:24 IST
A high-level committee set up to examine the gaps in the country's security system in the wake of the Kargil War in 1999 had called for appointment of a Chief of Defence Staff as a single-point military adviser to the defence minister.
In a major decision, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday announced creation of a Chief of Defence Staff as head of the tri- services.
Modi made the key announcement in his address to the nation from the ramparts of the Red Fort on the occasion of 73rd Independence Day.
The prime minister said the CDS will ensure synergy among the three services and provide effective leadership to them.
"Our government has decided to have a Chief of Defence Staff- CDS," Modi said.
......
Gautam

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby sum » 15 Aug 2019 13:49

Have always maintained since days of yore that having NaMo as PM is as good as any uber BRF jingo being PM.

All practical wishlists will be ticked off for sure

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby dinesha » 15 Aug 2019 14:34

Modi gives India CDS, its biggest defence reform — what it means & how it’ll work
https://theprint.in/defence/modi-gives- ... rk/277325/

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Sonugn » 15 Aug 2019 14:38

https://theprint.in/defence/modi-gives-india-cds-its-biggest-defence-reform-what-it-means-how-itll-work/277325/
It is not yet clear whether the new CDS will be a five-star officer, or a four-star officer who is first among equals since the service chiefs are four-star officers.

It is also not clear whether the CDS will be at par with or above the Cabinet Secretary, the senior-most civil servant in the country. Sources said in all likelihood, the two posts would be at par.

The CDS will act as the sole adviser to the government on all the three services. While exact modalities are yet to be firmed up or made public, sources said all procurement matters will come under the CDS, as will budgetary allocation for the three services.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby wig » 15 Aug 2019 15:02

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/arm ... 86769.html

Army chief Bipin Rawat may be first chief of defence staff
Speculation is that the current army chief Bipin Rawat could be named to the post

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby RKumar » 15 Aug 2019 15:25

^ That makes complete sense. Very good step by GoI and MoD!

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby ramana » 15 Aug 2019 23:05

Sonugn wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/modi-gives-india-cds-its-biggest-defence-reform-what-it-means-how-itll-work/277325/
It is not yet clear whether the new CDS will be a five-star officer, or a four-star officer who is first among equals since the service chiefs are four-star officers.

It is also not clear whether the CDS will be at par with or above the Cabinet Secretary, the senior-most civil servant in the country. Sources said in all likelihood, the two posts would be at par.

The CDS will act as the sole adviser to the government on all the three services. While exact modalities are yet to be firmed up or made public, sources said all procurement matters will come under the CDS, as will budgetary allocation for the three services.



Coupta's paper is muddying the waters by dragging in non issues of warrant of precedence and pomp and glory.
CDS will be the top most military officers chosen by merit. not the rotation nonsense which gave us mediocre chiefs promoted for non coup proclivity.
He will present a unified military option to the PM.
No more three different options of belling the cat.

And this forum debate since 2001 has been looked at.


To really understand the matter you need to look at the status of the Viceroy and the Commander-in-Chief before Independence.
They were on par and since it was a occupation colony the C-i-C was higher as shown by the Curzon vs Kitchener fight.
After Independence, Nehru (no ji) systematically demoted the military by reducing numbers, status and other actions as he feared a coup. This fear was fed by the ICS/IAS bureaucrats who used this to assert their dominance citing civil-military oversight in democracies.
Repeatedly India faced issues where the three services did not coordinate or were fighting their own separate wars or turf battles since 1947 even in matters of procurement. The COSC workaround did not work as the incumbent would still serve as the service chief and not the overall military chief.
Time and again this came out and KS garu made a big recommendation to have a CDS appointed. this got inot GOM and review process and bureaucrats and certain service chiefs stalled it for last 20 years.

NaMo saw this repeatedly in the last five years and took effective firm decision within 70 days of the elecion results. This is as significant as J&K Integration. Its civil-military integration finally.

If Gen Rawat is the first CDS I think its a good choice for he has shown the intellectual heft needed for this job with his re-organization plan.
In my view FM Carippa, FM Manekshaw, Gen Sunderji and now Gen Rawat stand out.

Gen Paddy would have stood out but for the bad civilian leadership who buckled under US pressure and called of Parakram. But Gen paddy is always dear to our heart.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby srin » 15 Aug 2019 23:24

Been reading Twitter on the CDS since morning, and have been quite unpleasantly surprised and disturbed to see quite extreme anti-Rawat views (I don't want to directly link it - but google for #AccidentalCOAS).

WTF is going on ? Is it motivated by the recent reforms ? Or is it something else ? Not used to seeing such adverse views on our COAS.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby fanne » 15 Aug 2019 23:37

After Independence, Nehru (no ji) systematically demoted the military by reducing numbers, status and other actions as he feared a coup. This fear was fed by the ICS/IAS bureaucrats who used this to assert their dominance citing civil-military oversight in democracies.


I disagree with the above. I will not be surprised that one day we will find out - Nehru was British agent, and he not ICS/IAS feared a coup, lest his actions were caught and he was kicked out. Evidences (many circumstantial) are many, few are as follows
1. He was foisted on the nation despite not winning the Congress election (Patel won it, but Mahatma foisted him), perhaps British had some kind of leverage (even as simple as appealing to his sense of patriotism) on the Mahatma. If you read freedom at midnight, British imposed leaders like this in TSP as well
2. Nehru worked in favor of British pov, wanted to give JK to TSP (NA went, thanks to the English). Hyderabad, Current JK etc are with us due to Patel
3. He appointed his relative as CinC, Kaul lost us 1962 (he feared the army, not the ICS/IAS
....It will be a 100 page essay, suffice to say, he was the original pappu (notwithstanding books like Discovery of India, if secular media had its way and internet was not invented, Arundhati Roy would have been the greatest Indian writer/philosopher, million times better than Kalidas, Tulsidas, Valmiki, Arbindo, Jagatguru etc combined). nehru is an intellectual in the same sense. He came from a very privileged background (his father was cong chief, perhaps the original collaborator), his clothes would go to Switzerland for dry cleaning (as India did not have that facility). That bugger in spite of being a lawyer never fought a case (rumor is he gave away Chandrashekhar azad). Never won anything. Who knows who wrote discovery of India - full of factual errors - Mahabharata happened before Ramayna and was just a war between two tribal cousin, my a$$). Patel was from a very humble background, got his law degree (topped his class) and won many cases.

In Modi 2.0 we are gaining freedom 2.0. Freedom 1.0 was from physical English, Freedom 2.0 hopefully is from conceptual English.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby gpurewal » 16 Aug 2019 00:43

Will there be a mandatory term limit for the CDS? If there is, will be as short as 2 years like the COAS or as long as 3 years like the CNS, and CAS?

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Rakesh » 16 Aug 2019 00:45

I would assume they will still have to follow the 62 age or 3 year term, depending on which comes first.

Added Later: I could be wrong in my above statement.

General Rawat will turn 62 on 16 March 2020. So perhaps it could be someone else, otherwise he will have a short tenure.

Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa will turn 62 (next month) on 07 Sept 2019.

Admiral Karambir Singh will turn 62 on 03 November 2021.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Rakesh » 16 Aug 2019 00:54

Deleting my own post.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby gpurewal » 16 Aug 2019 01:02

Another question; will the CDS be a five-star rank? If it is, the chances of seeing an Admiral of the Fleet greatly increases.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Aug 2019 19:17

A Chief of Defence Staff will not address the armed forces’ problems-Abhijit Iyer-Mitra

The announcement of the post of a Chief of Defence Staff (CDS), made by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in his Independence Day speech on August 15, is curious. Curious not just because it comes so late, but also because the government thinks it can solve deep human problems in the military through what is at best a bureaucratic ‘reform’ based on a 20-year-old recommendation. It may find that all it does is like joint service command, add another layer of military and civilian bureaucracy with zero actual improvements in anything, be it operational, strategic or logistical.

The root of the problem is two-fold. The first is the human capacity deficit across the board in the military. This manifests itself in several ways starting with a deeply problematic understanding of budgets or economics and progressing worryingly onto a lack of standardisation of equipment.



The second problem, which derives from the first, is the heavily army-centric approach of the Indian military as a whole, ignoring the fact that it is air forces and navies that win modern wars. Worse still, while armies themselves have moved towards a less manpower-intensive paradigm, the Indian Army continues to invest heavily in manpower, as for example the ill-fated mountain strike divisions.

The question is how does a CDS solve any of this — the answer sadly is that in 1999 when the Kargil committee report came out it did not solve problems and even less so now. If anything the Kargil committee was a classic case of a superficial enquiry that came up with outdated solutions without understanding what the problem was and gave answers that were obsolete then and are even more so now.

For example, most of the casualties were brave army men forced into attacking uphill, while being badly equipped and with inadequate direct fire. We still have stories of how large howitzers had to be hauled uphill to provide such direct fire. All of this could obviously have been avoided if they had adequate and accurate air support.

The problem then (as is now) was that precision munitions were too expensive to expend on targets such as 5-10 man ad hoc bunkers and we were fine expending human lives to compensate. To this day we have not solved the problem of mass producing cheap precision munitions.

Complicating this was poor leadership and atrocious supply chains because of a heavily-outdated logistics chain, too many different types of ammunition and equipment to bring about economies of scale and general disinterest in logistics despite Erwin Rommel’s dictum “the quartermaster wins the battle even before it has begun”. How a CDS would have solved this problem then is a mystery and now even more so.

For example, to this day our soldiers lack proper body armour, proper helmets, proper rifles, etc. Yet the Indian Army is more interested in howitzers and tanks, when the French Army, for example, is able to control an area twice the size of India in North Africa with just trucks, jeeps and helicopter and a mere 3,000 troops.

The navy continues with white elephants such as aircraft carriers, despite the fact the MiG 29s on the INS Vikramaditya suffer from serious problems and the fact that the submarine wing, the air wing and surface wing cannot properly communicate with each other seamlessly.

Meanwhile, the air force is on its own trip, its future plans dependent on no less than four different types where even the US Air Force and Navy will be rationalising to just two types of fighters. Moreover three of the four IAF types will be heavy, ruinously expensive twin-engine aircraft with limited weapons, engine and systems commonality.

All of this is because of the human capacity deficit, because each individual service neither understands modern industrial supply chains or economics of scale, but more importantly because their respective leaderships refuse to rationalise and streamline their services. Some of this is because their interactions with modern campaigns being fought by industrialised powers is acutely limited. Their conversations with foreign colleagues are formalised, or as in the case of joint exercises, such as the Red Flag and Malabar, severely stunted for ‘operational security’ reasons with limited learning that doesn’t get institutionalised or dispersed within the relevant branch.

It is also because of the fact that importance comes from the ‘breadth and scope of ones responsibilities’ as ‘Sir’ Humphrey Appleby put it. How else can one describe repeated rejection of the Indian Air Force’s tender for aerial refuellers on cost grounds, or the fact that no company was interested in bidding for the Indian Army’s infantry combat vehicle (ICV) which has now had to be junked several times? The latter competition elicit sneering and guffaws, with vendors laughing in private that ‘the army seems so clueless that if they read in a magazine that an ICV could fly they’d want jet engines put on it’.

Let us be clear, the problems of each service are too deep and the solutions are required at the foreign interaction, educational, and industrial level — not at the top, but at the bottom. This is not a macro problem, it is a severe micro problem, and all a CDS does is add another floor to a flat whose foundations are crumbling.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india ... 1.html/amp

Read quite a few posts/articles arguing for the CDS and this is a good article highlighting some shortfalls that also need to be addressed.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Manish_Sharma » 16 Aug 2019 20:07

srin wrote:Been reading Twitter on the CDS since morning, and have been quite unpleasantly surprised and disturbed to see quite extreme anti-Rawat views (I don't want to directly link it - but google for #AccidentalCOAS).

WTF is going on ? Is it motivated by the recent reforms ? Or is it something else ? Not used to seeing such adverse views on our COAS.

Under PMship of ManMushak jj singh created lineage of congi pliant chiefs, but NDA broke it by promoting General Shri Bipin Rawat over two Seniors, so Antonia crusading mafia controlled media is feeling Bhoot Jolokia up their nether ends

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby vinod » 16 Aug 2019 20:36

I see this as something CDS has to address. One of the first things for CDS is to drive the modernization of the military faster with sustainable and higher local content.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Aug 2019 22:42

Some thoughts on CDS Position with little bit of knowledge

Key tasks
1. Leveraging emerging tech and leverage a joint R&D dept which partners with or assimilates DRDO
a. AI applications: Supply chain
b. Combat tech
c. holistic view of key techs: Engine, Radar, drone

2. Rationalization of resources:
a. acquisition
b. existing resources
c. future planning

3. Provide a full military picture to GOI

But it might be good to have a future CDSs from officers/generals who have done rotation/spent sometime across services. there might be already some similar group, I remember A&N was under integrated command or something of that sort.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby dinesha » 17 Aug 2019 00:19

Nitin A. Gokhale inside man or the fly on the wall in the Modi government reveals the million dollars question:-

CDS to Bring Doctrinal Coherence in the Indian Military
August 16, 2019; By: Nitin A. Gokhale Print Email
Prime Minister Narendra Modi took everyone—or let me say at least the strategic community—by surprise by announcing the appointment of a Chief of Defence Staff from the ramparts of the Red Fort on 15 August.

“Our forces are India’s pride. To further sharpen coordination between the forces, I want to announce a major decision from the Red Fort. India will have a Chief of Defence Staff (CDS). This is going to make the forces even more effective,” the Prime Minister said in his Independence Day speech, ushering in one of the most significant defence reforms in the past two decades.

The need for creating the post of CDS was first clearly articulated by the Kargil Review Committee (KRC) in 1999, although the demand for a single point military adviser has existed since 1971. The Group of Ministers (GoM) appointed in the wake of the KRC report recommended several measures to improve synergy and coordination among the three armed forces. The biggest recommendation was to create the post of CDS. However, traditional bickering amongst military leaders, resistance from the civil bureaucracy and lack of political will combined to delay the appointment of CDS so far.

On Thursday however, Modi, politically stronger than any other Prime Minister since 1984, bit the bullet, taking the first step in what is likely to be a long road towards truly integrating India’s armed forces.

So what is the likely road map of this journey? And what would constitute the job profile of India’s first CDS? Details are still hazy but from whatever little information one could gather from multiple sources, it is clearly going to be a calibrated approach to achieve full inter-services jointness and integration of the three services with the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in coming years.

First up, it needs to be noted that India’s first CDS will be a four-star officer, equal in rank to the three service chiefs but a notch higher in status. He will most likely also have functional parity with the defence secretary although the top civil servant in the MoD will continue to be below the CDS and the three service chiefs in the Warrant of Precedence. This arrangement will probably disappoint many military veterans but in its wisdom, the government has decided to be cautious and not go the whole hog in giving a 5-star rank to the CDS—at least for the moment.

To begin with, the CDS is to be entrusted with full charge of the recently created three tri-services agencies—for space, cyber and special operations. The Andaman and Nicobar Command, headquartered at Port Blair will also be under the CDS while there will be no change in the status of the Strategic Forces Command (SFC), the functional arm of the country’s Nuclear Command Authority (NCA). Any future tri-service organisation, let’s say an Indian Ocean Region (IOR) Command, can also become the direct responsibility of the CDS.

All available inputs suggest that the main tasks assigned to the CDS will include integrating training infrastructure and courses spread across the three services, prioritisation of inter-service allocation of resources and avoiding duplication in acquisition and procurement in consultation with the service headquarters. Going forward, the CDS will plan and execute tri-service exercises—both small and large—over the next two-three years to evolve true jointness across the military.

In a way, CDS will replace the current Chiefs of Staff Committee (CoSC), a compromise arrangement where service chiefs become chairman by rotation. The CISC (Chief of Integrated Defence Staff to the CoSC), a three-star officer, currently heading the HQ Integrated Defence Staff (IDS), created after the GoM report in 2001, will become the Vice Chief of Defence Staff. The IDS organisation—and its expanded scope and numbers–will therefore automatically come under the CDS as his secretariat.


Eventually, HQ IDS may have to be integrated with the MoD, instead of remaining outside its functional structure, necessitating changes in allocation of business rules. The CDS will thus report to the Raksha Mantri (defence minister) and the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS). Some current practices will however remain unchanged. The defence secretary will be directly responsible to the Parliament for the functioning of the MoD and will be in-charge of budget and its disbursement in the ministry.

The Prime Minister’s announcement may appear to have been made out of the blue, but it now transpires that the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO), the National Security Council Secretariat (NSCS), the MoD have been working in tandem to not just create the post of CDS but also evolve a defence strategy for the country. In fact, the national defence strategy (which looks at the country’s internal, external and non-traditional security threats in a comprehensive manner) has been derived from the National Security Strategy (NSS) that has been finalised in the past six months by the NSCS. The CDS is now expected to write a joint military doctrine flowing out of the national defence strategy and the Raksha Mantri’s periodic operational directive issued to the Indian military. There is also a clear understanding at the highest decision-making level that in the Indian context there is no need or scope to create joint or theatre commands given that the country also has complex internal security challenges to deal with.
The CDS is expected to work with all the three service headquarters and the civilian bureaucracy to bring doctrinal coherence in the Indian military’s future roadmap. There is however no plan to give any operational role to the CDS in the near future. That will remain the primary responsibility of the respective service chief. Overall, this move is aimed not only at improving inter-services synergy but also to create a balance in the civil-military relations. While keeping the primacy of civilian control over the military, the creation of the post CDS should be seen as the first step towards bringing the pendulum of civil-military relations to the middle instead of heavily leaning towards the civilian segment of the nation-state.

Nitin A. Gokhale


https://bharatshakti.in/cds-to-bring-do ... -military/

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby ManuJ » 17 Aug 2019 00:23

CDS is a good start, but has to be followed up with integration of the MOD and the forces' HQs, with the CDS in charge.
The integrated HQ needs to be manned by personnel from the forces and not by general-purpose bureaucrats.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby JayS » 17 Aug 2019 15:58

I read Nitin Gokhale's article. Given we know he has quite good credibility on such matters, if we take what the article says at face value, it seems that GOI is only taking a step in right direction, rather than going all the way through. My Idea was that CDS will have the ultimate responsibility for any Operational matters and would be a single point contact for the CCS or the PM in the event of War. But the Article says CDS won't have any operational role. Basically, CDS will be an Admin kind of post mostly working on Tri-Service co-ordination. But then it also mentions, CDS will have Tri-service Commands, Space and Cyber Warfare under him. I am confused.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby ramana » 18 Aug 2019 01:34

Let it settle down
All will be well.
interesting civil service decided to raise objections and using intemperate language.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2019 12:29

What must not get diluted is the direct access to the PM by the 3 service chiefs. Mrs.G regularly met with her chiefs on various matters without the filter of MOD babus.It worked splendidly in '71 and they should not have another hurdle, the CDS apart from the Def. Sec. should they wish to discuss matters with the PM.

One can see that the PMO wishes for greater cohesiveness between the 3 services, acting in unison as one seamless entity , providing the political leadership with a variety of fast- track options in any crisis. This will require the reforms and creation of theatre commands debated on BRF 2 decades ago! The CDS will give the govt. a point man to execute its military operation decisions and commands to the forces, who will like Gen.Ike in WW2 give the command for our equiv. of D-Day like ops. whatever. For the moment a 4* officer is fine.Avoiding another level of babudom with all its negativity must be avoided and we must not get too top-heavy with top brass like the famed Mexican Army! We can leave that to the Pakis.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby LakshmanPST » 23 Aug 2019 22:24

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/chief-of- ... e-for-post

National Security Advisor (NSA) Ajit Doval will head a high-power panel set up by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to implement the decision of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) to create the post of Chief of Defence Staff and also to frame the terms of reference for this post, reports Hindustan Times.

According to the report, the Implementation committee will submit its report in the next six weeks. Apart from the NSA, other members of the panel will be the Cabinet Secretary, the defence secretary and the secretary, expenditure and Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC)

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Rakesh » 23 Aug 2019 22:35

^^^ from the above article...

With the present COSC chairman, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa retiring on 30 September, Indian Army Chief General Bipin Rawat will reportedly be the frontrunner for the post of the CDS as he is set to become the COSC chairman.

As per the recommendations of the CCS, the retirement age for the CDS will be 64 years.

If the CDS is going to be appointed pre Sept 30, 2019...then I doubt it will be General Bipin Rawat. Post Sept 30, 2019...then definitely General Rawat will be the front runner.

Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa will turn 62 on 07 Sept 2019 and if the retirement age for the CDS is 64 years of age, then he has time. With a Sept 30th retirement date, I am surprised as to why the new Air Chief has not been announced yet. :)

Usually it is three months before retirement of the current Chief, that a new Chief is announced.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Vidur » 23 Aug 2019 23:42

ManuJ wrote:CDS is a good start, but has to be followed up with integration of the MOD and the forces' HQs, with the CDS in charge.
The integrated HQ needs to be manned by personnel from the forces and not by general-purpose bureaucrats.


And here lies the crux. I would recommend all serious followers of defence to read up on Warrant of Precedence and Akshay Kapoor's blog.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby ManuJ » 24 Aug 2019 04:44

LakshmanPST wrote:Apart from the NSA, other members of the panel will be the Cabinet Secretary, the defence secretary and the secretary, expenditure and Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC)

Ah, equal==equal with 3 IAS officers to balance the 3 members of the COSC.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby tandav » 24 Aug 2019 12:25

I think when anyone joins the defence forces as a cadet they should be exposed to all branches for first 2-3 years. After understanding their talents deputation to a specialized area such as land infantry, tank armor, marines, artillery, special ops, airborne, mountain/forest fighting core, cyber/communications, submarine, aircraft carrier, destroyers, fighter jets, reconnaissance, helicopter assets. I think as of date inductions of manpower happens in 3 separate services, from now on induction should happen in a single service and deputation to specialized area should be as per internal assessment/certifications

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby LakshmanPST » 25 Aug 2019 10:12

tandav wrote:I think when anyone joins the defence forces as a cadet they should be exposed to all branches for first 2-3 years. After understanding their talents deputation to a specialized area such as land infantry, tank armor, marines, artillery, special ops, airborne, mountain/forest fighting core, cyber/communications, submarine, aircraft carrier, destroyers, fighter jets, reconnaissance, helicopter assets. I think as of date inductions of manpower happens in 3 separate services, from now on induction should happen in a single service and deputation to specialized area should be as per internal assessment/certifications


This will actually increase the training expenditure. And it is not required as well. Because it is the higher level officers that should have exposure in all areas and not everyone makes it to higher levels
Also, it is the lower level that will be fighting the actual battles on the ground. So, they need to be masters in their specific area.
So, I think it should be the other way around. Lower level officers should be made specialists in their area of expertise early in their careers. They should know in and out of everything in that specific area. But they should be provided integrated training with others along with Specific training. As their rank increases, they should be progressively exposed to specific technical expertise in other areas. That way, there will be better synergy at higher levels in Joint Commands.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby Atmavik » 26 Aug 2019 08:39

RS tv discussion on CDS. looks like sri ABV almost announced a CDS but stopped at the last min to get political consensus and Kangress was not on board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI_E0zo ... q06vtdaD7s

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby wig » 31 Aug 2019 08:23

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... 25487.html
Idea of carving theatre commands is flawed
extracts

India needs to be seen as one theatre, much like the entire US landmass which is three times larger than India and organised under one single theatre called United States Northern Command. For Russia and China, which are six and three times our size, the key enablers for theatre commands are their size and extra-regional expeditionary national interests. Russia has four regional commands, but with an independent air and space command. Clearly, the air defence of the country hasn't been divided. The Chinese theatre commands are still evolving and while some benefits may accrue, so would new vulnerabilities.

and
The IAF's current force levels are at 30 fighter squadrons, three airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), six flight refueller aircraft (FRA), 10 C-17s, radars and surface-to-air missiles (SAM)s. On being divided, each theatre would at best have 10-12 fighter squadrons, two FRA sand one AWACS. Such a division would render the Air Force weak in every theatre. The fielding of 10 squadrons against Pakistan’s 22 in the western theatre and 10 against China’s 25 would be a sure recipe for disaster as the Air Force would not be able to provide the requisite air defence and support to the ground forces. Only central orchestration with a multiplexed use of air assets across the entire battle space of our country/theatres can get us victory. The concept of centrality in the use of air power needs to be understood by those propagating the idea of theatre commands.

concludes
Ours is a small-sized country, with smaller lines of communication, making relocation of forces feasible, adjoining theatres would bear operational influence on each other, robbing them of operational independence. In this perspective and owing to lesser numbers in the Air Force, the idea of carving theatres is fundamentally flawed. Our size, indivisibility of the Air Force, limited conventional and sub-conventional wars and disposition of our enemies compel us to be structured and viewed as one theatre, a complete whole employing one strategy against enemies in collusion or support.

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Re: Modi announces Chief of Defence Staff

Postby wig » 31 Aug 2019 08:29

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... 24244.html

making the cds effective
earlier attempts to have a CDS
Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was to announce the CDS on November 30, 1984. Gen AS Vaidya was to be made the CDS, but unfortunately, Indira Gandhi was assassinated before the announcement could be made. The second occasion was when Prime Minister AB Vajpayee resolved to announce the CDS the next day. His Principal Secretary received a call from the Air Chief that the CDS was not acceptable to him. The Principal Secretary spoke to the PM, who shelved the announcement.

The third occasion was Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee telling a tri-service audience at HQ IDS on September 8, 2005, that the government had decided the previous week whom to appoint CDS, but there was no political consensus, adding that many things get approved without political consensus. Significantly, the Chairman COSC and Naval Chief, the Army Chief and the Officiating Air Chief unanimously told Mukherjee that not only was the CDS necessary, he must also be given full operational powers over the military in order to make him effective. The fourth occasion was Defence Minister Parrikar stating in December 2015 that the CDS could be a reality soon.

issues of the CDS
Media reports a few years back, quoting government sources, had said the CDS chosen need not be senior to the service chiefs. There is also the precedence of recalling a retired General to raise the Army’s 1 Corps.

further
Military integration must include total reorganisation of the MoD, which will likely be fiercely opposed by the bureaucracy. The basis of raising HQ IDS was for it to be part of the MoD. But Defence Minister George Fernandes was resisted in doing so, which was also one reason for implicating Fernandes in the ‘Coffingate’ and making him step down. Mohan Guruswamy, Chairman and Founder, Centre for Policy Alternatives, has recommended to the PM that the CDS must be the principal military adviser to the government and the government’s sole point of communication with military, three service chiefs should report to the CDS, the Defence Secretary should be Secretary to COSC chaired by CDS, and the CDS should be of MoS rank.


and
Military integration must include total reorganisation of the MoD, which will likely be fiercely opposed by the bureaucracy. The basis of raising HQ IDS was for it to be part of the MoD. But Defence Minister George Fernandes was resisted in doing so, which was also one reason for implicating Fernandes in the ‘Coffingate’ and making him step down. Mohan Guruswamy, Chairman and Founder, Centre for Policy Alternatives, has recommended to the PM that the CDS must be the principal military adviser to the government and the government’s sole point of communication with military, three service chiefs should report to the CDS, the Defence Secretary should be Secretary to COSC chaired by CDS, and the CDS should be of MoS rank. These sound recommendations, in addition to MoD-HQ IDS merger, merit focus by the Implementation Committee but will unlikely come through without the personal intervention of the PM.

The NSA heads both the DPC and the SPG, holds Cabinet minister rank but is not answerable to Parliament. Will the CDS have direct access to the PM or through NSA? Logically, CDS must be permanent member of CCS and also have direct access to Prime Minister.


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