Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby chiru » 15 Oct 2019 19:37

sajaym wrote:If we use the same technology and use all the data accumulated during the LCA program -- right from its design, manufacturing and flight testing. Is it possible to build a working prototype of the AMCA in virtual reality so that Test pilots and maintainence staff can experience the jet even before the physical prototype is built?

This tech is in use since early 2000's LCA mk.1 was designed similarly and be rest assured AMCA is following the same development cycle.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Indranil » 15 Oct 2019 20:06

This has been the case with IJT, HTT40 and LUH development as well.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sanjayc » 15 Oct 2019 20:16

JayS wrote:I hope you have considered a possibility that it was actually The Print which was hunting for articles with specific narratives and was asking people who could give them what they want to right articles..? I think this article and the one on shitting on MWF was part of co-ordinated efforts run by The Print itself.


That was 100 percent the case. Editors always push a narrative and hunt for writers who can churn out drivel that can fit that particular narrative. Coupta is a parrot of the American embassy.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby JayS » 15 Oct 2019 22:20

sajaym wrote:I
Is it possible to build a working prototype of the AMCA in virtual reality so that Test pilots and maintainence staff can experience the jet even before the physical prototype is built?


Do browse the later pages of LCA official brochure (should be easy to find on google), all these things are done for LCA and later used for other projects as pointed out by IR. Full digital model called DMU, Virtual reality cockpit simulator, virtual interactive training module for MRO staff, virtual reality assembly simulator, and of coarse flight simulator and so on...

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nam » 15 Oct 2019 23:23

The effort that goes in applying RAM coating on F35.

This is ofcourse TFTA, however HAL needs to set up a similar painting process, to churn out production jets with consistent 5G coating.


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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nam » 16 Oct 2019 01:41

Looks like there are two designs for AMCA in terms of frontal shaping.

Check these two models shown in Defexpo 2018.

Stealth design, with underneath shaped like F22 (v shaped)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DajmZYDXkAE_55T?format=jpg&name=large

For reference F22 with full glory!
https://www.acc.af.mil/portals/92/AE/F-22%20Demo/F-22%20Blue%20Angels%202.jpg?ver=2019-08-01-161641-060

Non-stealth, with underneath being flat.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DajmZXyWAAEehtz?format=jpg&name=large

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Indranil » 16 Oct 2019 03:18

There are literally 100s of configs that they have studied. Like they should.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Avinandan » 16 Oct 2019 23:59

nam wrote:Looks like there are two designs for AMCA in terms of frontal shaping

Many thanks for pointing that out !. I wonder which one was shown to Rajnath Singh recently, perhaps that version is the finalized design.

Image

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Avinandan » 17 Oct 2019 00:11

Avinandan wrote:1. Any idea on what is the percentage benefit of converting to all moving tailfins ?
2.How difficult is it to achieve an all moving tail fin. Could this one of the low hanging fruits achieved for AMCA ?

3. Can the belly be fattened enough to keep 2 stacks of 4 weapons in the bay ?

4. Why not have a bigger nose cone to accommodate a bigger radar (in future) plus extra hardware for F35ish EOTS which adds more flexibility without compromising the stealth mode (in comparison of using an extra external hardpoint for the targetting pod) ?

5. What about air brakes ? All managed via Ailerons and Elevators ? -- similar progression from Su 30 MKI to Su 35 ?

6. Conformal hard points to minimise RCS and drag in non stealth mode ?

7. What happened to Black Widow like wings ? It had some merit to it, that is why the early designs had this wing structure.


8. AMCA don't have the trade mark air intake auxiliary flaps now ( tried and tested in Jaguar and Tejas), not needed anymore ?

@Gurus, kindly answer plz

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nam » 17 Oct 2019 00:19

Why not have a bigger nose cone to accommodate a bigger radar (in future)


Well, if radars move towards GaN for TR modules, then the radar antenna size will actually become smaller(or can be kept the same). Even if more power is been transmitted.

Example if each GaN TR module can transmit, say 3 times(actually it does more) the power of GaAs TR module. Then theoretically, existing GaAs should be 1/3 the size when done with GaN.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sajaym » 17 Oct 2019 13:57

I would suggest a virtual reality cockpit for future variants of the AMCA. Here are some benefits of a virtual cockpit:

1. The main interactions of a pilot with his aircraft are through his helmet and his gloves. So if we can virtually project a cockpit environment to the pilot through his helmet (helmet displays/externally mounted steerable cameras) and gloves (force feedback), it'll just be a natural extension of his current cockpit experience.
2. By enabling 360 degree viewing using externally mounted steerable cameras, a virtual cockpit can eliminate the need for a glass canopy. Instead we can have a metal canopy, thereby providing better safety to pilot against bullets and missile fragmentation. It will also help in better aerodynamics. It might also eliminate pilot disorientation since the pilot cannot look out and misjudge his bearings.
2. Having a virtual cockpit can cut down the manufacturing time required for an aircraft by eliminating the need for putting up the wiring and fitments for the cockpit instruments.
3. A virtual cockpit can save weight and space on an aircraft (due to above).
4. A virtual cockpit can be customised for individual pilot quirks (eg left-handed pilot).
5. Having a virtual cockpit will help quick mission change of an aircraft from Pilot mode to Drone mode. So same aircraft can fly as manned or unmanned (fully autonomous), and same pilot can fly the same aircraft as active pilot or drone pilot... for consecutive missions!
6. Simulator training can be simplified - instead of having complex room-sized flight simulators, all you need will be a movement tracking chair which the pilot will use with his own helmet and gloves for full mission simulation!

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby prahaar » 17 Oct 2019 14:55

Sajaym, current visual capture for omnidirectional capture is not sufficient to REPLACE human vision. There are many scenarios where it can certainly help. IMO, mixed reality is more suitable than than virtual reality. I am referring to the "sensing" aspect, which includes situational awareness of the battlefield (outside the aircraft) as well as within (internal equipment/displays/etc.)

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nam » 19 Oct 2019 04:07

F35 is truly a video game. I am pretty sure, IAF will ask for such lazy flying in AMCA.


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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby venkat_r » 19 Oct 2019 05:10

Wow ! That is amazing! Leaps ahead of competition

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby raghuk » 19 Oct 2019 06:59

nam wrote:F35 is truly a video game. I am pretty sure, IAF will ask for such lazy flying in AMCA.


ACAH with auto trim is pretty common even in airliners. I frankly don't find the control system that advanced and even the LCA can be flown that way. With respect to the weapons and engagement sequence shown in the video, I feel if the requirements are defined clearly then even that is doable. This would have been impressive 10 years ago but today its within the ability of most manufacturers.
Cheers!

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby JTull » 19 Oct 2019 17:14

We're playing catch-up on many fronts. Americans haven't remained static. Such usability improvements will come as IAF pilots are involved with the development process. Tejas is already a pilot's delight.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Philip » 19 Oct 2019 23:32

Thanks to thieving China has started fielding its first
5th-gen fighter.The AMCA is a paper plane which hopefully will arrive in IAF service by 2035, 15 years from now! By then 6th-gen birds will be in the sky. India has no choice but to acquire an interim 5th-gen fighter if we are to remain equal at least in quality to a PLAAF that already numerically outnumbers the IAF which is fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Arun.prabhu » 20 Oct 2019 00:02

Philip,
Beg your pardon, but that is so much BS. LO warplanes are made to fight offensive war. Their effectiveness attacking ground targets is proven. In an air battle with BVR missiles being as bad as they are at long ranges, LO warplanes armed with AAMs in bays to preserve stealth... all bets are off.

Instead of trying to meet the Chinese on equal ground, we should be investing in things that render their LO warplanes useless. Combining multiple sensors to paint a picture, cheap air defence drones with one or two heat seekers to use as area denial - so that we can shape the ingress and egress vectors to our advantage and create killing zones- radars that use a wide band to defeat LO designs, long range weapons to take out the basing infrastructure of LO warplanes...

I know you follow the news and We have invested in a lot of these. I would really like DRDO or the IA or IAF to work on armed drones such as I proposed...

With these measures in place, here’s Just one scenario... we sense the LO craft coming in, let them Deep into our territory and then bring up AD umbrella behind them so that they can’t egress. How do you think those planes will fare deep in our territory scrambling against our air Defense umbrella? How long before they run out of fuel?

A multi hundred million dollar plane isn’t a magic wand. It doesn’t negate all principles of warfare; principles that have stood the test of time from back when we were stone axe wielding cavemen to today. It doesn’t negate the physical limits of fuel capacity, range, weaponry, etc. and it doesn’t negate training, doctrine, bloodymindedness...

When LO planes have won a war against a peer adversary, I’m eat crow, but until then, I’m firmly of the opinion that they are costly white elephants and anyone who places too much faith in them is a fool.

Philip wrote:Thanks to thieving China has started fielding its first
5th-gen fighter.The AMCA is a paper plane which hopefully will arrive in IAF service by 2035, 15 years from now! By then 6th-gen birds will be in the sky. India has no choice but to acquire an interim 5th-gen fighter if we are to remain equal at least in quality to a PLAAF that already numerically outnumbers the IAF which is fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby kit » 20 Oct 2019 00:36

Arun.prabhu wrote:Philip,
Beg your pardon, but that is so much BS. LO warplanes are made to fight offensive war. Their effectiveness attacking ground targets is proven. In an air battle with BVR missiles being as bad as they are at long ranges, LO warplanes armed with AAMs in bays to preserve stealth... all bets are off.

Instead of trying to meet the Chinese on equal ground, we should be investing in things that render their LO warplanes useless. Combining multiple sensors to paint a picture, cheap air defence drones with one or two heat seekers to use as area denial - so that we can shape the ingress and egress vectors to our advantage and create killing zones- radars that use a wide band to defeat LO designs, long range weapons to take out the basing infrastructure of LO warplanes...

I know you follow the news and We have invested in a lot of these. I would really like DRDO or the IA or IAF to work on armed drones such as I proposed...

With these measures in place, here’s Just one scenario... we sense the LO craft coming in, let them Deep into our territory and then bring up AD umbrella behind them so that they can’t egress. How do you think those planes will fare deep in our territory scrambling against our air Defense umbrella? How long before they run out of fuel?

A multi hundred million dollar plane isn’t a magic wand. It doesn’t negate all principles of warfare; principles that have stood the test of time from back when we were stone axe wielding cavemen to today. It doesn’t negate the physical limits of fuel capacity, range, weaponry, etc. and it doesn’t negate training, doctrine, bloodymindedness...

When LO planes have won a war against a peer adversary, I’m eat crow, but until then, I’m firmly of the opinion that they are costly white elephants and anyone who places too much faith in them is a fool.

Philip wrote:Thanks to thieving China has started fielding its first
5th-gen fighter.The AMCA is a paper plane which hopefully will arrive in IAF service by 2035, 15 years from now! By then 6th-gen birds will be in the sky. India has no choice but to acquire an interim 5th-gen fighter if we are to remain equal at least in quality to a PLAAF that already numerically outnumbers the IAF which is fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK.


Not quite , get that 5th gen fighter program to take off and simultaneously have a "6th gen " stealth UCAV as its wingman, that will function as a long arm and extend the sensor reach , i think its quite doable for India. Manned stealth fighters may well be on the way out.

By the way i would urge fellow BRFites to watch the progress of the Korean KF X program and the various iterations being proposed, the successive ones progressively adding on capabilities and LO capability.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Manish_Sharma » 20 Oct 2019 00:51

Philip wrote:
Thanks to thieving China has started fielding its first
5th-gen fighter.The AMCA is a paper plane which hopefully will arrive in IAF service by 2035, 15 years from now! By then 6th-gen birds will be in the sky...

Did you ever say such things when USA in 90s was field THREE 5th generation aircrafts b2, f 117 & f 22 and pathetic russians were begging PM Narsimha Rao to fund 3.5 generation Su 27?

When USA was working on 5.5 generation F 35 and pathetically Putin was struggling with 4th generation Su 35, did you criticize?

PAK FA isn't advanced enough for IAF, IAF WANTS TRUE 5TH GENERATION FIGHTER NOT PSUEDO 5TH GENERATION THAT PAK FA IS.
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 20 Oct 2019 02:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby prasannasimha » 20 Oct 2019 00:53

To add to it IAF have clearly told they can track the so called Chines Stealth aircraft

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Karan M » 20 Oct 2019 00:56

The IAF feels that the 4.5 Gen Rafale is >> than the 5th Gen PAK-FA at least now, given how it pushed for the former and dropped the latter.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby darshhan » 20 Oct 2019 01:17

Arun.prabhu wrote:Philip,
Beg your pardon, but that is so much BS. LO warplanes are made to fight offensive war. Their effectiveness attacking ground targets is proven. In an air battle with BVR missiles being as bad as they are at long ranges, LO warplanes armed with AAMs in bays to preserve stealth... all bets are off.

Instead of trying to meet the Chinese on equal ground, we should be investing in things that render their LO warplanes useless. Combining multiple sensors to paint a picture, cheap air defence drones with one or two heat seekers to use as area denial - so that we can shape the ingress and egress vectors to our advantage and create killing zones- radars that use a wide band to defeat LO designs, long range weapons to take out the basing infrastructure of LO warplanes...

I know you follow the news and We have invested in a lot of these. I would really like DRDO or the IA or IAF to work on armed drones such as I proposed...

With these measures in place, here’s Just one scenario... we sense the LO craft coming in, let them Deep into our territory and then bring up AD umbrella behind them so that they can’t egress. How do you think those planes will fare deep in our territory scrambling against our air Defense umbrella? How long before they run out of fuel?

A multi hundred million dollar plane isn’t a magic wand. It doesn’t negate all principles of warfare; principles that have stood the test of time from back when we were stone axe wielding cavemen to today. It doesn’t negate the physical limits of fuel capacity, range, weaponry, etc. and it doesn’t negate training, doctrine, bloodymindedness...

When LO planes have won a war against a peer adversary, I’m eat crow, but until then, I’m firmly of the opinion that they are costly white elephants and anyone who places too much faith in them is a fool


He will not understand the contents of your post. Don't even bother trying to make him understand.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Jay » 20 Oct 2019 04:12

Philip wrote:if we are to remain equal at least in quality to a PLAAF that already numerically outnumbers the IAF which is fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK.


The exact reason why we should be building our own stuff and stop fantasizing about GUBO'ing other countries for unobtanium so that we stop dhoti shiver whenever hans sneeze in our direction.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby brar_w » 20 Oct 2019 04:58

kit wrote:Manned stealth fighters may well be on the way out.


The actual data would lead one to a totally different conclusion. Here's a chart I've compiled based on Data obtained from open source and Jane's annual forecast from their most recent briefing..

Image

Not quite , get that 5th gen fighter program to take off and simultaneously have a "6th gen " stealth UCAV as its wingman...


I'm not sure what a 6th generation stealth UCAV means. What are Gen 1 through 5 UCAV's? What special capability does the 6th gen. UCAV have compared to stuff that has been flying around for nearly two decades?

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Arun.prabhu » 20 Oct 2019 07:09

Not quite what? I did not argue that we shouldn't have a 5th gen warplane program. I argued that we needed a asymmetric approach to counter theirs. As to stealth UCAV, unless the UCAV can keep up what 5th gen warplane, is as maneuverable and communications between the two can be masked from listeners and hidden from interceptors, how exactly would it be useful? Or are you assuming this 6th gen UCAV will be able to spot and engage targets on its own, avoid radars and detection by other means, engage in dog fights, etc?

I do agree that we need a iterative approach. The USAF is arguing for that now, after spending the wealth of their empire on the F35 and ending up with a costly, plane that is going to suck in any war. (I can't wait for Brar_W to tell me how the F35 is not a white elephant. LOL) They want planes off COTS and established technologies that can be developed in as little as five years with multiple new models of warplanes, each of which would build on the predecessors technologies and all of which would be ordered in small quantities (small for USAF, that is)

kit wrote:Not quite , get that 5th gen fighter program to take off and simultaneously have a "6th gen " stealth UCAV as its wingman, that will function as a long arm and extend the sensor reach , i think its quite doable for India. Manned stealth fighters may well be on the way out.

By the way i would urge fellow BRFites to watch the progress of the Korean KF X program and the various iterations being proposed, the successive ones progressively adding on capabilities and LO capability.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Arun.prabhu » 20 Oct 2019 07:13

darshhan wrote:He will not understand the contents of your post. Don't even bother trying to make him understand.


I agree with a lot of his stuff about buying Russian weapon systems over much more costly western ones while we incubate, develop and build our own. I do not see the point of exhausting limited budgets buying foreign export "monkey models" and then paying to have them upgraded to battle worthy standard.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Kashi » 20 Oct 2019 08:57

Philip wrote:IAF which is fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK.


So you mean despite 270 odd Su 30MKIs, 60-odd Mig 29s, IAF is "fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK"??

That's a surprising assessment coming from you...

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Arun.prabhu » 20 Oct 2019 10:08

He is right in the sense that we are losing the edge but it isn’t due to PLAAF 5th gen warplanes. In olden day’s, PLAAF had a shit ton of crappy mig 21 and earlier copies with horrible armament and training. Our smaller better armed Air Force could use our quality to offset their quantity. But now they are building near peer planes in large numbers, their pilots get more hours in the air compared to what they used to get and our quality lead has come down while the quantity disparity grows worse. If not for the Himalayas, we’d be at a disadvantage today in an air war. With the Himalayas, we still have the advantage . A decade from now, if we don’t do something about our numbers, then we won’t be able to dominate the Indian Ocean AO from the air and give PLAAF the finger in the north at once. The huge 10000 sortie IAF exercise a few years back was to simulate a war where we routed the enemy Air Force up north and then swung south to crush them in the ocean. If the current state of affairs wrt number and quality differences persist or grow worse either way, it’ll be longer before the IAF can swing south and that’ll give the Chinese reason to think they can delay in the north while they force a decision in the Indian Ocean and destroy our navy and thus dominate Indian Ocean. Far fetched but it is the only realistic play book they have right now, despite their pretensions of dozen or more carrier fleets in The future.

Kashi wrote:
Philip wrote:IAF which is fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK.


So you mean despite 270 odd Su 30MKIs, 60-odd Mig 29s, IAF is "fast losing its superior combat ratio with PAK"??

That's a surprising assessment coming from you...

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby venkat_r » 20 Oct 2019 10:23

brar_w wrote:
kit wrote:Manned stealth fighters may well be on the way out.


The actual data would lead one to a totally different conclusion. Here's a chart I've compiled based on Data obtained from open source and Jane's annual forecast from their most recent briefing..

Image


Nice chart compiled, Stealth is a force multiplier, that is one stealth fighter can accomplish what multiple non stealth fighters can do, so that is a scary number looking at China’s J 20 numbers and it would be foolish to scurry around at a time if China gifts few of them to Pakistan. Of course there are couple of if there that J20 is effective and has some decent stealth and those will land in the hands of Pak. Even if they do not land in Pak and China pulls of high hundreds numbers, it is something that needs to be handled.

AMCA would be good if ready in time and also gets procured in numbers along with a good Texas MK3 or some such equivalent at that time. Also this puts the MMRCA selection in perspective on what criteria we should evaluate it on.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby brar_w » 20 Oct 2019 12:14

The J-20 is a bit tricky because a lot hinges on an indigenous engine. I doubt that they can (or will) incresae annual production to above 50 until they have a proven and reliable domestic engine. If they get there by say 2023-2025 then you are looking at between 1500-2000 aircraft by 2045..If not then lower.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby vishvak » 20 Oct 2019 14:50

I think people have overlooked what Chinese have decided prolly ie to produce in numbers, like in WW2, during peacetime by hook or crook as an intermediate necessary step for 'better' - ie anything that starts working - to be declared as revolutionary invention by Chinese after jam and butter or what's the correct phrase.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Vips » 29 Oct 2019 03:56

Defence ministry to seek Cabinet nod for prototype of desi stealth jet.

With the IAF now fully backing the indigenous development of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), it’s all systems go for the desi stealth jet. The defence establishment plans to seek the Cabinet Committee on Security’s approval for the detailed design and prototype development of the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) by early next year.

The twin-engine AMCA will basically combine advanced stealth, supercruise (the capability to achieve supersonic cruise speeds without the use of afterburners), super-manoeuverability, data fusion and multi-sensor integration with AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars.

Development of a FGFA is an extremely complex and costly affair, with the American F/A-22 Raptors and F-35 Lightning-II Joint Strike Fighters being the only fully-operational ones around the globe at present. “Both the Chinese J-20 and the Russian Sukhoi PAK-FA do not have the requisite super-cruise and stealth capabilities,” said a senior IAF officer.(The Russian Lemon was not only not stealthy, but was also not capable of super cruising. so basically Russians cheated us and took our $300 Million offering us TOT of something which they fully knew they were not capable of developing at all)

Image

DRDO, in turn, rejects widespread concern the developmental saga of the “swing-role” AMCA may go the same way as the long-delayed Tejas light combat aircraft. “The design work on AMCA began in 2009. By 2014-2015, the fighter’s configuration, in tune with IAF requirements, had been worked out. But the problem was that there was no engine,” said a scientist.

Consequently, the decision has now been taken to go in for two squadrons of AMCA Mark-I with the “available” General Electric-414 afterburning turbofan engine in the 98 Kilonewton thrust class.

“The next five to six squadrons of AMCA Mark-II will have a more powerful 110 Kilonewton engine, which will be developed indigenously with foreign collaboration parallelly. The supercruise of Mark-I will be slightly limited due to the older engine but it will be upgraded in Mark-II,” said a source.

After the Rs 400 crore design sanction for AMCA in December 2018, it will now take “another seven to eight months” for the nod for the prototype development phase at a cost of around Rs 7,000-8,000 crore, which will be required over a decade, said sources.

As per existing plans, the 25-tonne AMCA’s “roll-out from the hangar to the runway” will take place by 2024-2025, with the first test-flight a year after that. “By 2029, the clearance to begin production of AMCA Mark-I should come. Mark-II production, in turn, should begin by 2035,” said the source.

DRDO says the advanced technologies to make AMCA a stealth fighter range from “serpentine air-intake” and an internal weapon bay (internal carriage of smart weapons) to radar absorbing materials and conformal antennae. “Most of the designing for stealth shaping of AMCA has already been done,” he said.

The plan is to produce the single-engine Tejas in greater numbers, with the IAF already committed to acquiring 123 of them. Another 200 Tejas Mark-II, with more powerful engines and advanced avionics, will be inducted at a later stage.

“The first test-flight of Tejas Mark-II or the MWF (medium weight fighter) should take place by 2023. The specialised AMCA, which will cost double the Tejas Mark-II, will be inducted in smaller numbers ... stealth aircraft are expensive,” said the source.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Shankk » 29 Oct 2019 05:04

-----Personal Attack edited out. User warned ----
Last edited by nachiket on 29 Oct 2019 06:09, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Warned user for Personal attack

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby fanne » 29 Oct 2019 06:01

My criticism of AMCA is around the engine -110 kn engine which no other country makes ( and we do not have the wherewithal to make one in the first attempt- even if we could from risk angle it is not the right strategy). Either we descope and plan around a lesser powerful engine(f414) from a known house or scale up with a larger power engine with known engine house. If we develop engine ourselves great else there is a backup plan.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nachiket » 29 Oct 2019 06:05

fanne wrote:My criticism of AMCA is around the engine -110 kn engine which no other country makes ( and we do not have the wherewithal to make one in the first attempt- even if we could from risk angle it is not the right strategy). Either we descope and plan around a lesser powerful engine(f414) from a known house or scale up with a larger power engine with known engine house. If we develop engine ourselves great else there is a backup plan.

Isn't that exactly what they are doing as per the report posted by Vips? The first 2 squadrons are supposed to have the F414 with 98Kn max thrust - the same engine to be used on the Tejas MkII.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby SaiK » 29 Oct 2019 09:43

^^the above red portion in vips post is really alarming!

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Cybaru » 29 Oct 2019 09:53

It says requisite super cruise and stealth. IAF probably has far superior metrics. IMO PAKFA is improved Su-30 and not much more. Nothing revolutionary, just evolutionary for them.. It probably takes a lot of money to bring a well developed weapon system to battle field. Look at the amount of work that we have done on the MKI and continue to do so. Everything we have done has always paid off. We are continuing to invest in LCA Mk1, Mk1A, Mk2 and now AMCA mk1 and Mk2 from get go. Each platform will add bigly to the next one.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby kit » 29 Oct 2019 09:54

SaiK wrote:^^the above red portion in vips post is really alarming!



Boss.. that details has been known to all concerned for quite a while now, more than a few years now I think. So the traction for MCA AMCA etc .. It was a breach of trust and some babu idiocy as well. But lesson learnt.

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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby venkat_r » 29 Oct 2019 09:55

If India can get the GE 414 engines made locally in India, then that would be a good feat in itself, not sure if GEbwould agree to produce around 200 + 50 for AMCA engines if that is lucrative enough for a local manufacturer of engines with a possibility of producing more.

Meanwhile GTRE can come up a version of Kauveri with Seneca or RR.


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