Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

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Kartik
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Kartik »

Salient points from the interview with Dr Girish Deodhare by Anantha Krishnan

AMCA updates

- PDRs are all completed, including the aircraft level PDR which happened in Dec 2020.
- So the complete design is frozen.
- Detailed design activities have begun, including realization of various LRUs.
- Lot of commonality of LRUs with Tejas Mk2 and that helps since we have to only upgrade the LRUs for the AMCA additional surfaces.
- Actuator design has started. So it's moving very well.
- The IAF has frozen all it's PSQRs (Requirements) after discussion with ADA for over a year and that program has moved very well and we are on track for getting that aircraft ready for rollout by 2024.
- It has a different kind of a wing and that wing design is also progressing well. It's being done at HAL.

- NAL plays a big role in all ADA programs. NAL does the wind tunnel testing. In addition all the structural design activities are done at NAL. They assist ADA in many of the activities including aerodynamics.
- AMCA is a national program and many laboratories including NAL are working on stealth technologies and they've progressed very well.
- Have a very good idea into what is the type of stealth or materials that will be incorporated into AMCA.
- AMCA full scale model is being built, for measuring the stealth characteristics, by a Hyderabad based company
- That model is in a very advanced stage of construction and should come very shortly.
- Also DSI intakes are confirmed and will be incorporated in AMCA.
- DSI technology will feature on all future programs as it helps in stealth and also has other benefits. DSI was one technology to be mastered. Now that's done.
- So Tejas Mk2 will have canards, AMCA will have DSI and probably the TEDBF will have both.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by JTull »

Bharadwaj
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Bharadwaj »

^^^^^
The model in Dr.Ghosh's hands looks to be the config going forward. It's hopefully time for the GOI to spend serious money on this project.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by JTull »

@Indranil, do you think angled radome and chin from AMCA could make into TEDBF? PDR for AMCA is complete but it's still being worked on for TEDBF. If the DSI is same then wouldn't it make sense to reuse some other aspects too?
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by nam »

Image
nam
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by nam »

The nose looks like Su34. I feel we wil see a Su34 style radar as well, with wide scan angle.

Side arrays as well. But don't know if it will radar or EW sensor.

Wonder where will the IRST go.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by kit »

Wondering what kind of thermal emission suppression is just for the jet exhaust ., isnt that one of the criteria for true 5th gen fighter ?

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/ques ... -signature

Image
Northrop is a fan of directing exhaust out over the top of their fuselage designs. Here's the B-2; you can see the heat plumes of the exhaust trail, but the source of actual combustion is well within the engine housing, and with the aircraft at any altitude the exhaust vent itself would be totally obscured

Image
The F-22 Raptor uses a similar theory of tucking the engines way back behind exhaust ducts, but these ducts can move to vector thrust or open to allow afterburners, so for greatest effect the ducts are placed to the rear instead of over the top of the fuselage as Northrop's designs tend to
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by brar_w »

kit wrote:Wondering what kind of thermal emission suppression is just for the jet exhaust ., isnt that one of the criteria for true 5th gen fighter ?

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/ques ... -signature
Yes modern 5th gen engines solutions have put measures aimed at signature suppression within the engine/propulsion system itself. On top of this nozzles and materials also help with suppressing the signature. Propulsion is an important part of what makes most of these 5GFA work.
Like the F119, the F135 has a stealthy augmentor where traditional spray bars and flameholders are replaced by thick curved vanes coated with ceramic radar-absorbent materials (RAM). Afterburner fuel injectors are integrated into these vanes, which block line-of-sight of the turbines, contributing to aft-sector stealth. The axisymmetric nozzle consists of fifteen partially overlapping flaps that create a sawtooth pattern at the trailing edge. This creates shed vortices and reduces the infrared signature of the exhaust plume. The effectiveness is reportedly comparable to that of the F119's wedge nozzles, while being substantially more cost effective and lower maintenance LINK (with citation)
Image

Image

Jay and I discussed it years ago. Not sure if that discussion is still up on the forum somewhere but at the time, I had provided an image of the system described above.

Rather than look at the B-2 (a bomber and a very old design), Northrop's approach is best captured by the F-23 which differed from the YF-23 it flew. This graphic captures the F-23 design based on subsequent patents filed by Northrop.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/the-drive-stag ... 1_1920.jpg
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by sajaym »

nam wrote:Wonder where will the IRST go.
Maybe they are going to do it the F-35 & J-20 way?

Image

Image
Kartik
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Kartik »

A look at the possible retractable refueling probe on the AMCA can be found in this video on the VR facilities at ADA by Anantha Krishna.

Video link

Go to the 3:02 minute mark to see the simulation.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Bharadwaj »

Model being prepared but the info display bellow shows the final config.

Image


https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Bharadwaj »

There is a full stealth mode model too .... No snaps yet from Vayu of that one.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Avinandan »

sooraj wrote:...
What is that ungainly hump between the tail fins :?:
kit
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by kit »

Bharadwaj wrote:There is a full stealth mode model too .... No snaps yet from Vayu of that one.

Indeed that would be a quite doable one., just like the KFX program !!

Though looking at the exhaust and thermal signature management., this might be worked upon in later models ?!
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by kvraghav »

Avinandan wrote:What is that ungainly hump between the tail fins :?:
This might be the hook to also deploy this model upside down
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Bharadwaj »

kit wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:There is a full stealth mode model too .... No snaps yet from Vayu of that one.
Indeed that would be a quite doable one., just like the KFX program !!

Though looking at the exhaust and thermal signature management., this might be worked upon in later models ?!
https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu

The AMCA stealth mode is just without the pylons, attachments etc. They probably are not targeting all round rcs control. The front on shaping looks excellent and both ground and air radars will have a tough time locking on. The stealth config is present in the info tab.

Image
sooraj
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by sooraj »

The AMCA simulator

Image
Image
Image
Bharadwaj
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Bharadwaj »

Can someone please get snaps of the stealth mode amca model and info tablet near the tedbf display? :cry: I would go to the show myself except for some co morbidities increasing my risk factors to covid exposure.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Kartik »

Posted by Indranil on Twitter.

Image
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by krishGo »

SidSoma
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by SidSoma »



1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.
Sid
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Sid »

SidSoma wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPiHVCc9UI[/youtube]

1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.
What does optionally manned means? Fully autonomous/ ground controlled/ auto-pilot?

I am really surprised with new concepts which are floated in aero-India, truly impressive.
SRajesh
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by SRajesh »

Sid wrote:
SidSoma wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPiHVCc9UI[/youtube]

1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.
What does optionally manned means? Fully autonomous/ ground controlled/ auto-pilot?

I am really surprised with new concepts which are floated in aero-India, truly impressive.

Noob :?:
What does this mean
AI/ground controlled for ????
safely land the bird in case the pilot is incapacitated or for ???? mission-control
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Avinandan »

I guess it would work both as a UCAV or a mannged Fighter.
Drawing some inspirations from Stealth movie :)
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by nits »

One thing which Jingos will agree is the Quality of Display and models have tremendously improved; someone out there is doing a great job in showcasing our capabilities and PR
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by brar_w »

Rsatchi wrote:
Sid wrote:
What does optionally manned means? Fully autonomous/ ground controlled/ auto-pilot?

I am really surprised with new concepts which are floated in aero-India, truly impressive.

Noob :?:
What does this mean
AI/ground controlled for ????
safely land the bird in case the pilot is incapacitated or for ???? mission-control


There isn't a 5th gen OEM on the planet that hasn't claimed that they have an optionally manned variant as a future possibility. Lockheed had those claims on the F-22/F-35 going back late 90's if not even earlier. In fact a few books on the ATF speak of this being considered in the early 90's itself. In reality however, given how UAV/UCAV's are designed and manufactured and their intended role an optionally manned fighter has little to no utility carries nearly 100% of the cost of the manned fighter and provides little in the form of operational benefit like a larger or more optimized aircraft would. So it has always remained a fantasy. Very similar with two-seaters as well.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by rajsunder »

SidSoma wrote:

1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.
DDM at its best. There were so many questions one could have asked the director, but we have DDM to thank for making a mess out of the interview.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Bharadwaj »

Chief hopeful AMCA will be green lighted this financial itself.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/135 ... 89/photo/1

Image
Indranil
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Indranil »

Kartik wrote:Posted by Indranil on Twitter.

Image
Can carry 4 SAAWs and 2 AAMs internally. OR 2 larger glide bombs (hitherto unseen) and 2 AAMs.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by sankum »

My estimates.

AMCA internal weapons Payload is of 1500 kg
2*500kg pgm + 2"250 kg BVR AAM.

Empty equipped weight 12000kg
Internal fuel 6500kg
Internal weapon payload 1500kg
Clean takeoff weight 20000kg
External Payload 5000kg
MTOW 25000kg

From internal bay image in video it seems either 2" 125 kg SAAW or 250kg class glide bombs in place of 500kg pgm.
It dosen't seem to be a 500kg glide bomb. I may be wrong.
Last edited by sankum on 07 Feb 2021 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
Aditya_V
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Aditya_V »

Any idea why no provision for 2 CCM like other stealth aircraft in the internal side bays like F22
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Pratyush »

The internal weapons payload seems to have been reduced. The figure published in the past was for 2800kgs.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Prem Kumar »

sankum wrote:AMCA internal weapons Payload is of 1500 kg
2*500kg pgm + 2"250 kg BVR AAM.
If this is true, its comparable to the Raptor's main bay, which can accommodate 2*500 Kg bombs + 2 BVR missiles. In a pure A2A mode, it can carry 6 BVRAAMs. Not sure if AMCA will have that config.

The Raptor also has 2 internal side bays for carrying 2 CCMs that the AMCA doesn't. One of the drawbacks of a "medium" fighter with stealth (internal bay) requirements
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by sankum »

^^^^^
It is my estimate from the dimensions of internal weapons. The total 1500kg internal payload is from information in public domain.

It has four internal weapon station and carry only 4 BVR AAM . In no way it can match F22 in carrying 6 AAM.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by ArjunPandit »

Guys i know it is idrw but still it is a news worth
https://idrw.org/iaf-commits-for-126-am ... iaf-chief/
Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria, has said that official node from the Government of
India for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fighter jet program is likely to come this financial
year and the air force has committed to procure 126 jets in two variants as agreed upon between DRDO/ADA
and IAF. Girish Deodhare, Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has confirmed that the first
rollout of AMCA Prototype will happen in 2024 and the first flight is expected in 2025-26.
AMCA Mk1 will be powered by an American GE F-414IN engine generating 98kN Thrust class each. IAF will
procure the first two squadrons (36 jets) in Mk1 configuration and Mk2 will be powered by a jointly codeveloped engine with foreign OEM generating 110kN Thrust class. IAF plans to order 5 squadrons (90 jets) in
Mk2 configuration.
Mk2 will be called a 5.5 Generation fighter jet and will be the first to feature an Optionally manned option,
allowing aircraft to be operated without a pilot in the cockpit for risky missions. Mk2 will also feature Auto
Takeoff and Auto Landing function to reduce the Pilot workload and vehicle health monitoring system to reduce
downtime.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 53984?s=20 ---> Report: India's 5th generation stealth fighter AMCA will be manufactured at HAL Nashik, once it is ready for production.
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by rajsunder »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 53984?s=20 ---> Report: India's 5th generation stealth fighter AMCA will be manufactured at HAL Nashik, once it is ready for production.
was this not supposed to be built by a consortium of private players and government?
Making a 5th gen would need new manufacturing techniques to attain the low panel gaps that are required for maintaining stealth, why throw good money at makeup for a old horse?
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Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Post by Shekhar Singh »

India Is Building 6th Generation Unmanned Fighter Jet

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