Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5418
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Kartik » 20 Jan 2021 17:27

Salient points from the interview with Dr Girish Deodhare by Anantha Krishnan

AMCA updates

- PDRs are all completed, including the aircraft level PDR which happened in Dec 2020.
- So the complete design is frozen.
- Detailed design activities have begun, including realization of various LRUs.
- Lot of commonality of LRUs with Tejas Mk2 and that helps since we have to only upgrade the LRUs for the AMCA additional surfaces.
- Actuator design has started. So it's moving very well.
- The IAF has frozen all it's PSQRs (Requirements) after discussion with ADA for over a year and that program has moved very well and we are on track for getting that aircraft ready for rollout by 2024.
- It has a different kind of a wing and that wing design is also progressing well. It's being done at HAL.

- NAL plays a big role in all ADA programs. NAL does the wind tunnel testing. In addition all the structural design activities are done at NAL. They assist ADA in many of the activities including aerodynamics.
- AMCA is a national program and many laboratories including NAL are working on stealth technologies and they've progressed very well.
- Have a very good idea into what is the type of stealth or materials that will be incorporated into AMCA.
- AMCA full scale model is being built, for measuring the stealth characteristics, by a Hyderabad based company
- That model is in a very advanced stage of construction and should come very shortly.
- Also DSI intakes are confirmed and will be incorporated in AMCA.
- DSI technology will feature on all future programs as it helps in stealth and also has other benefits. DSI was one technology to be mastered. Now that's done.
- So Tejas Mk2 will have canards, AMCA will have DSI and probably the TEDBF will have both.

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2802
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby JTull » 23 Jan 2021 19:10


Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 23 Jan 2021 19:21

^^^^^
The model in Dr.Ghosh's hands looks to be the config going forward. It's hopefully time for the GOI to spend serious money on this project.

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2802
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby JTull » 23 Jan 2021 19:27

@Indranil, do you think angled radome and chin from AMCA could make into TEDBF? PDR for AMCA is complete but it's still being worked on for TEDBF. If the DSI is same then wouldn't it make sense to reuse some other aspects too?

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4321
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nam » 24 Jan 2021 00:24

Image

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4321
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nam » 24 Jan 2021 01:20

The nose looks like Su34. I feel we wil see a Su34 style radar as well, with wide scan angle.

Side arrays as well. But don't know if it will radar or EW sensor.

Wonder where will the IRST go.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4332
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby kit » 24 Jan 2021 04:06

Wondering what kind of thermal emission suppression is just for the jet exhaust ., isnt that one of the criteria for true 5th gen fighter ?

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/16876/how-do-stealth-aircraft-reduce-the-heat-signature

Image
Northrop is a fan of directing exhaust out over the top of their fuselage designs. Here's the B-2; you can see the heat plumes of the exhaust trail, but the source of actual combustion is well within the engine housing, and with the aircraft at any altitude the exhaust vent itself would be totally obscured

Image
The F-22 Raptor uses a similar theory of tucking the engines way back behind exhaust ducts, but these ducts can move to vector thrust or open to allow afterburners, so for greatest effect the ducts are placed to the rear instead of over the top of the fuselage as Northrop's designs tend to

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9625
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby brar_w » 24 Jan 2021 04:24

kit wrote:Wondering what kind of thermal emission suppression is just for the jet exhaust ., isnt that one of the criteria for true 5th gen fighter ?

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/16876/how-do-stealth-aircraft-reduce-the-heat-signature



Yes modern 5th gen engines solutions have put measures aimed at signature suppression within the engine/propulsion system itself. On top of this nozzles and materials also help with suppressing the signature. Propulsion is an important part of what makes most of these 5GFA work.

Like the F119, the F135 has a stealthy augmentor where traditional spray bars and flameholders are replaced by thick curved vanes coated with ceramic radar-absorbent materials (RAM). Afterburner fuel injectors are integrated into these vanes, which block line-of-sight of the turbines, contributing to aft-sector stealth. The axisymmetric nozzle consists of fifteen partially overlapping flaps that create a sawtooth pattern at the trailing edge. This creates shed vortices and reduces the infrared signature of the exhaust plume. The effectiveness is reportedly comparable to that of the F119's wedge nozzles, while being substantially more cost effective and lower maintenance LINK (with citation)


Image

Image

Jay and I discussed it years ago. Not sure if that discussion is still up on the forum somewhere but at the time, I had provided an image of the system described above.

Rather than look at the B-2 (a bomber and a very old design), Northrop's approach is best captured by the F-23 which differed from the YF-23 it flew. This graphic captures the F-23 design based on subsequent patents filed by Northrop.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/the-drive-stag ... 1_1920.jpg

sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 181
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sajaym » 25 Jan 2021 09:47

nam wrote:Wonder where will the IRST go.


Maybe they are going to do it the F-35 & J-20 way?

Image

Image

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5418
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Kartik » 28 Jan 2021 16:17

A look at the possible retractable refueling probe on the AMCA can be found in this video on the VR facilities at ADA by Anantha Krishna.

Video link

Go to the 3:02 minute mark to see the simulation.

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 01 Feb 2021 15:33

Model being prepared but the info display bellow shows the final config.

Image


https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu

sooraj
BRFite
Posts: 1522
Joined: 06 May 2011 15:45

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sooraj » 02 Feb 2021 15:28

Image

sooraj
BRFite
Posts: 1522
Joined: 06 May 2011 15:45

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sooraj » 02 Feb 2021 15:35

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 02 Feb 2021 15:59

There is a full stealth mode model too .... No snaps yet from Vayu of that one.

Avinandan
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 12:29
Location: Pune

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Avinandan » 02 Feb 2021 16:16

sooraj wrote:...

What is that ungainly hump between the tail fins :?:

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4332
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby kit » 02 Feb 2021 17:55

Bharadwaj wrote:There is a full stealth mode model too .... No snaps yet from Vayu of that one.



Indeed that would be a quite doable one., just like the KFX program !!

Though looking at the exhaust and thermal signature management., this might be worked upon in later models ?!

kvraghav
BRFite
Posts: 1000
Joined: 17 Apr 2008 11:47
Location: Some where near the equator

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby kvraghav » 02 Feb 2021 17:57

Avinandan wrote:What is that ungainly hump between the tail fins :?:

This might be the hook to also deploy this model upside down

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 02 Feb 2021 19:29

kit wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:There is a full stealth mode model too .... No snaps yet from Vayu of that one.


Indeed that would be a quite doable one., just like the KFX program !!

Though looking at the exhaust and thermal signature management., this might be worked upon in later models ?!

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu

The AMCA stealth mode is just without the pylons, attachments etc. They probably are not targeting all round rcs control. The front on shaping looks excellent and both ground and air radars will have a tough time locking on. The stealth config is present in the info tab.

Image

sooraj
BRFite
Posts: 1522
Joined: 06 May 2011 15:45

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sooraj » 03 Feb 2021 12:04

The AMCA simulator

Image
Image
Image

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 04 Feb 2021 12:46

Can someone please get snaps of the stealth mode amca model and info tablet near the tedbf display? :cry: I would go to the show myself except for some co morbidities increasing my risk factors to covid exposure.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5418
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Kartik » 04 Feb 2021 17:50

Posted by Indranil on Twitter.

Image

krishGo
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 81
Joined: 03 Feb 2017 04:24

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby krishGo » 05 Feb 2021 05:03


SidSoma
BRFite
Posts: 151
Joined: 16 Feb 2018 15:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby SidSoma » 05 Feb 2021 12:51



1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1657
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Sid » 05 Feb 2021 12:59

SidSoma wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPiHVCc9UI[/youtube]

1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.


What does optionally manned means? Fully autonomous/ ground controlled/ auto-pilot?

I am really surprised with new concepts which are floated in aero-India, truly impressive.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 979
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Rsatchi » 05 Feb 2021 13:05

Sid wrote:
SidSoma wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPiHVCc9UI[/youtube]

1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.


What does optionally manned means? Fully autonomous/ [color=#FF0000]ground controlled/ auto-pilot?

I am really surprised with new concepts which are floated in aero-India, truly impressive.

Noob :?:
What does this mean
AI/ground controlled for ????
safely land the bird in case the pilot is incapacitated or for ???? mission-control

Avinandan
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 12:29
Location: Pune

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Avinandan » 05 Feb 2021 19:16

I guess it would work both as a UCAV or a mannged Fighter.
Drawing some inspirations from Stealth movie :)

nits
BRFite
Posts: 1020
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby nits » 05 Feb 2021 19:24

One thing which Jingos will agree is the Quality of Display and models have tremendously improved; someone out there is doing a great job in showcasing our capabilities and PR

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9625
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby brar_w » 05 Feb 2021 19:58

Rsatchi wrote:
Sid wrote:
What does optionally manned means? Fully autonomous/ [color=#FF0000]ground controlled/ auto-pilot?

I am really surprised with new concepts which are floated in aero-India, truly impressive.

Noob :?:
What does this mean
AI/ground controlled for ????
safely land the bird in case the pilot is incapacitated or for ???? mission-control


There isn't a 5th gen OEM on the planet that hasn't claimed that they have an optionally manned variant as a future possibility. Lockheed had those claims on the F-22/F-35 going back late 90's if not even earlier. In fact a few books on the ATF speak of this being considered in the early 90's itself. In reality however, given how UAV/UCAV's are designed and manufactured and their intended role an optionally manned fighter has little to no utility carries nearly 100% of the cost of the manned fighter and provides little in the form of operational benefit like a larger or more optimized aircraft would. So it has always remained a fantasy. Very similar with two-seaters as well.

rajsunder
BRFite
Posts: 688
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 02:38
Location: MASA Land

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby rajsunder » 06 Feb 2021 01:04

SidSoma wrote:

1. Cockpit glass coating developed in house to avoid radar wave reflection
2. AMCA Mk 2 to be optionally manned.


DDM at its best. There were so many questions one could have asked the director, but we have DDM to thank for making a mess out of the interview.

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 06 Feb 2021 12:38

Chief hopeful AMCA will be green lighted this financial itself.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1357921991723020289/photo/1

Image

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8290
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Indranil » 06 Feb 2021 16:22

Kartik wrote:Posted by Indranil on Twitter.

Image

Can carry 4 SAAWs and 2 AAMs internally. OR 2 larger glide bombs (hitherto unseen) and 2 AAMs.

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 1003
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sankum » 06 Feb 2021 16:59

My estimates.

AMCA internal weapons Payload is of 1500 kg
2*500kg pgm + 2"250 kg BVR AAM.

Empty equipped weight 12000kg
Internal fuel 6500kg
Internal weapon payload 1500kg
Clean takeoff weight 20000kg
External Payload 5000kg
MTOW 25000kg

From internal bay image in video it seems either 2" 125 kg SAAW or 250kg class glide bombs in place of 500kg pgm.
It dosen't seem to be a 500kg glide bomb. I may be wrong.
Last edited by sankum on 07 Feb 2021 01:04, edited 1 time in total.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12605
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Feb 2021 17:20

Any idea why no provision for 2 CCM like other stealth aircraft in the internal side bays like F22

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8426
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Pratyush » 06 Feb 2021 18:22

The internal weapons payload seems to have been reduced. The figure published in the past was for 2800kgs.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2764
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Prem Kumar » 07 Feb 2021 00:33

sankum wrote:AMCA internal weapons Payload is of 1500 kg
2*500kg pgm + 2"250 kg BVR AAM.


If this is true, its comparable to the Raptor's main bay, which can accommodate 2*500 Kg bombs + 2 BVR missiles. In a pure A2A mode, it can carry 6 BVRAAMs. Not sure if AMCA will have that config.

The Raptor also has 2 internal side bays for carrying 2 CCMs that the AMCA doesn't. One of the drawbacks of a "medium" fighter with stealth (internal bay) requirements

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 1003
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby sankum » 07 Feb 2021 01:01

^^^^^
It is my estimate from the dimensions of internal weapons. The total 1500kg internal payload is from information in public domain.

It has four internal weapon station and carry only 4 BVR AAM . In no way it can match F22 in carrying 6 AAM.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3716
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 07 Feb 2021 03:09

Guys i know it is idrw but still it is a news worth
https://idrw.org/iaf-commits-for-126-am ... iaf-chief/
Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria, has said that official node from the Government of
India for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fighter jet program is likely to come this financial
year and the air force has committed to procure 126 jets in two variants as agreed upon between DRDO/ADA
and IAF. Girish Deodhare, Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has confirmed that the first
rollout of AMCA Prototype will happen in 2024 and the first flight is expected in 2025-26.
AMCA Mk1 will be powered by an American GE F-414IN engine generating 98kN Thrust class each. IAF will
procure the first two squadrons (36 jets) in Mk1 configuration and Mk2 will be powered by a jointly codeveloped engine with foreign OEM generating 110kN Thrust class. IAF plans to order 5 squadrons (90 jets) in
Mk2 configuration.
Mk2 will be called a 5.5 Generation fighter jet and will be the first to feature an Optionally manned option,
allowing aircraft to be operated without a pilot in the cockpit for risky missions. Mk2 will also feature Auto
Takeoff and Auto Landing function to reduce the Pilot workload and vehicle health monitoring system to reduce
downtime.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10633
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2021 20:26

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 53984?s=20 ---> Report: India's 5th generation stealth fighter AMCA will be manufactured at HAL Nashik, once it is ready for production.

rajsunder
BRFite
Posts: 688
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 02:38
Location: MASA Land

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby rajsunder » 07 Feb 2021 22:32

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1358271196387753984?s=20 ---> Report: India's 5th generation stealth fighter AMCA will be manufactured at HAL Nashik, once it is ready for production.

was this not supposed to be built by a consortium of private players and government?
Making a 5th gen would need new manufacturing techniques to attain the low panel gaps that are required for maintaining stealth, why throw good money at makeup for a old horse?

Shekhar Singh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 16 Sep 2018 14:55

Re: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

Postby Shekhar Singh » 07 Feb 2021 23:01

India Is Building 6th Generation Unmanned Fighter Jet



Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: YashG and 54 guests