HTT-40 Basic Trainer Aircraft: News & Discussions - 08 September 2019

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 24 Aug 2021 23:20

Twins preparing for takeoff!

https://twitter.com/gaur_av_iation/stat ... 30919?s=20

venkat_kv · Post by **venkat_kv** » 28 Aug 2021 00:12

YashG wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Haridas, YashG, I am unable to understand your series of posts.

But I will say only this. If no money exists for htt 40. Then same applies for any imported solution.

If money exists for any imported solution. It can be diverted to htt40.

Right.

Or I have totally missed what both of you are saying.
Yes. Pratyush you're correct.

Additionally, I'm also of the opinion that there is money out there for HTT-40/LCHs to be ordered.
If enemy is at the gates you've to find money to order whats needed- emphasis on 'find' - even if the money isn't available easily.

@Haridasji - I'm asking you to 'trust me' because I do not want to bring in here a discussion on numbers how GoI can find money to order HTT40/LCHs. Because that would need a lot of discussion on fiscal/budgetary policies and what GoI should or shouldn't do but since that will be massively OT, so I just said 'trust me'

Finding that money (for all immediate arming requirements in a swadeshi way) shouldn't be an issue - if arming India for a potential skirmish at border is our number 1 priority.

Pratyush Saar/ YashG Saar,

I am a bit confused. I don't think the govt has ordered any new big ticket items as imports other than what was budgeted earlier on, like rafales or spares or Apache gunships. We will not stop the payments in between to build a desi version just to show atma nirbharata.

Also what ever emergency provisions were bought during the border crisis were of proven systems, and by that I mean something like Milan or Konkurs or the R77 which the forces have had training and use extensively. essentially a plug and play/use. no new training or doctrines are required.

As much infuriating it is to see the LCH and HTT40 and host of other orders lag, even if the orders were placed now, these will not help immediately no. people have to be trained and doctrine, syllabus set up. Maybe the govt is balancing priorities and money flow and operational necessity in some order.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 28 Aug 2021 16:14

Prashant Bhadoria

Nothing comes close to flying the aircraft you have been involved as a designer and project manager too..plus being piloted by a legend @hvtiaf

We are done with it!! Its ready to be inducted..ofcourse there will be updates as desired by the flying wing @Indrani1_Roy

You're a Star
Last Trial Sortie

https://twitter.com/HTT40PRASHANT/statu ... 96257?s=19

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Aug 2021 17:09

106, here we come.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Aug 2021 17:24

IR, I am not on twitter. Would you please send our collective congratulations to him.

Also if it's possible, ask him as to what the future holds for him and his colleagues. After putting together and certifying this aircraft.

Because I am sure sky is the limit. I just want a glimpse of what's in store.

After all, yeh dil mange more.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 28 Aug 2021 19:20

We knew this was in the offing but the last trial sortie is still moment of joy!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Aug 2021 17:45

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 61283?s=20 ---> HTT-40 is all set for induction. In frame: @hvtiaf & @HTT40PRASHANT

https://twitter.com/HTT40PRASHANT/statu ... 96257?s=20 --->Nothing comes close to flying the aircraft you have been involved as a designer and project manager too..plus being piloted by a legend @hvtiaf

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 01 Sep 2021 00:40

Pratyush wrote:IR, I am not on twitter. Would you please send our collective congratulations to him.

Also if it's possible, ask him as to what the future holds for him and his colleagues. After putting together and certifying this aircraft.

Because I am sure sky is the limit. I just want a glimpse of what's in store.

After all, yeh dil mange more.

Done. His reply.

Sir have always been supported by you and the boarders on bharat rakshak right from 2013..feel blessed to have you all trust us that we will be able to deliver what we promised. Will continue to do our best and keep our flag flying high ..jai hind!!

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Sep 2021 01:02

Great accomplishment - shows what domestic MIC can deliver! Need to export this beauty!!

venkat_kv · Post by **venkat_kv** » 04 Sep 2021 01:36

A truly great day for Indian MIC, A hearty congratulation for the whole team involved in making the HTT-40 success and standing firm in all the trials and tribulations during the rough windy skies.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 04 Sep 2021 05:43

Doubt anyone ever doubted the team’s ability to deliver, it was always a question of if the IAF/powers the be could sabotage them enough to prevent this from ever becoming a reality.

But sadly as the LCH and LUH have proven just developing and proving is not enough anymore to see orders. The services loved to berate HAL back in the day but today it’s being made abundantly clear that the blockage was rarely the developer.

Where are the freaking orders? Who actually believes the IAF will give them a contract for 106 aircraft from the outset? It took them decades to even give a serious commitment for LCA that was above 16 units at a time.

Everything is piecemeal with these guys, 36 here, 24 there. That’s enough for imports who have large domestic orders to sustain them but Indian MIC will never flourish with such low orders- sabotage by another means.

Quite tragic that Mr Parrikar could not be around to see this day, he singlehandedly saved this project If I’m not wrong.

basant · Post by **basant** » 04 Sep 2021 08:37

Urgency?

“Basic trainers are very important and we need to get more of those quickly as the requirement of pilots is going up significantly. The IAF is training almost 140 pilots every six months compared to about 110 in the past,” said Air Marshal KK Nohwar (retd), director general, Centre of Air Power Studies. He said the numbers have gone up due to the large fleet of Su-30 fighters and the two-man cockpit requirement.

IAF drops plans to buy more Pilatus planes amid CBI probe

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 04 Sep 2021 09:04

IR,. Thanks a ton.

Barath · Post by **Barath** » 06 Sep 2021 10:42

basant wrote:Urgency?

IAF drops plans to buy more Pilatus planes amid CBI probe

The other route is lease, which will come with option to buy.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 126336.ece

If you are cynical, you might consider this as a way to do an end run around purchases of foreign aircraft being stymied, or of unwanted or late Indian aircraft/choppers

Lets see what come up and hope for the best

basant · Post by **basant** » 06 Sep 2021 12:18

If IAF thought something was urgent 5 years back and even wanted them to lease a year back, it won't be surprising that orders may take time to be placed due to lack of urgency in the procurement of the same products of desi make. If the urgency was true, orders would have come by now and suppliers would have been intimated to reduce lead times. === <admin> needless and baseless generalization against forces deleted, warning will follow if same behaviour is continued </admin> === Without a Parrikar (traded for a little inconsequential Goa, probably as a pretext), it would be more difficult to push desi products through. That media doesn't help in this, is not surprising either. Not many countries have their media so sold so cheap as ours, isn't it?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Sep 2021 12:25

Basant,

Don't be so despondent. We have reached a stage from where it is no longer possible to play such games in procurement.

There is reason to be optimistic about MOD procurement.

I am quite sure that HTT40 will be procured. Before the 2024 election cycle.

As a show case of Atmnirbhar Bharat. However much the services might want imported solution.

Imports can get a shot when the government of the day has no stakes in domestic product.

This one does.

basant · Post by **basant** » 06 Sep 2021 13:33

A little OT: It's a weird situation we face that we now depend on politicians (and a few bureaucrats) to make patriotic, expert and sensible decisions on defense matters and acquisitions against the delaying and misleading pressures and advice of the military. This is true for matters across board, in stymieing development of private/public industries and their critical products (from guns through helos). Media doesn't care unless sponsored by some or unless TRPs are involved. We even have an ACM involved in a scam but apparently no one else is indicted! True that some of the products are impressive to thwart imports here and there. We could have a situation where these firms offer products for other countries but many prefer systems bought by their own country first. Not everyone can be as lucky as Tonbo.

Now the army and defence ministry, and Northern Command in particular, are Tonbo’s clients but India was late to the party. The company’s tech took a circuitous route via the US Special Forces and Israeli Army before reaching Indian hands.

“This came from an engineering centre in Bengaluru, they told the Indians. That’s when the army reached out to us. Five countries were buying our tech before India bought from us," recalls Arvind Lakshmikumar, founder and CEO of Tonbo Imaging. That it took so long to gain his home country’s trust is the only low point Lakshmikumar can think of in his entrepreneurial journey so far.

isubodh · Post by **isubodh** » 06 Sep 2021 16:53

basant wrote:A little OT: It's a weird situation we face that we now depend on politicians (and a few bureaucrats) to make patriotic, expert and sensible decisions on defense matters and acquisitions against the delaying and misleading pressures and advice of the military.

[/quote]
This how things work. The leadership has a vision and then rest get involved in implementing it. The new leadership has brought a new direction and there is remaining intertia in the implementers. This is again something a leadership has to bring in the change.
Nothing new here, it's just that you are in a hurry, I guess a good leader will know how to bring in change without leaving everything broken.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 24 Nov 2021 21:48

Small Steps, Big Aim
#AtmaNirbharBharat

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14635 ... 48677?s=20

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 25 Nov 2021 12:15

^^ will those wing tip missiles be R - 73s or ASRAM ?

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 06 Jun 2022 13:38

HTT 40 receives its airworthiness clearance certificate from CEMILAC. The project set a record as the fastest to reach certification from the first flight. HTT 40 is designed to PSQR issued by IAF & FAR 23 standards.

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/153 ... uLwPA&s=19

basant · Post by **basant** » 06 Jun 2022 13:52

Proud of HAL and the entire teams and entities associated with its development. Kudos to all.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Jun 2022 15:35

Congratulations to the team. Now the government has to follow through with the orders to produce the aircraft.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jun 2022 21:18

Congratulations to all involved. Was waiting for this.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Jun 2022 21:23

Congratulations to all involved in the development of this program. A great day for the country. Jai Hind!

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 06 Jun 2022 21:30

Congratulations to the youth-brigade (and IAF in supporting them, despite hiccoughs). Would make an excellent "behind-own-lines" UAV/controller hunter, especially for short range Switchblade kind of munitions

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Jun 2022 21:33

This is great news. Hopefully there are orders.

From some time back:

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... e/2052135/

the Defence Acquisition Council has given its approval for procuring 106 Basic Trainer Aircraft (HTT-40) from the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). In its meeting under the Chairmanship of defence minister Rajnath Singh, approvals were given to proposals worth Rs 8,722.38 crore and the main amount will be going towards procuring the Basic Trainers from the HAL.

bala · Post by **bala** » 06 Jun 2022 21:58

IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Raha said, “IAF will induct HTT 40 basic trainers in large numbers soon”. IAF has committed to purchasing at least 70 of these aircraft.
That was in 2016. Hope in 2022, IAF is as committed after CEMILAC certification.

Note: While the HTT-40 programme was almost junked during UPA rule, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar pursued both IAF and HAL to ensure development of the trainer.

Now we await MOD to do its job, place orders promptly and kickstart the Indigenous trainer aircraft for IAF.

basant · Post by **basant** » 06 Jun 2022 22:48

From the current practice it looks that DAC will be followed by CCS, budget sanction, negotiations, acceptable trails of initial batches and then the order for the rest.

bala · Post by **bala** » 07 Jun 2022 01:12

Don't know where this would be.. but recent DAC approvals

< Mod Note: Post Edited ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&start=3120#p2552656 >

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 07 Jun 2022 11:44

Contract signing this year…but its exactly this mindset of getting orders and funds to roll out products that costed us dear..we have started pitching in our money on our capabilities..rest will fall in line…next decade about a dozen projects will take off from our hangers.

https://twitter.com/HTT40PRASHANT/statu ... wTRkw&s=19

venkat_kv · Post by **venkat_kv** » 10 Jun 2022 22:43

^^^^
late to the party, but kudos to HAL and its associated teams for getting this done doubly quick.

Hopefully IAF and MOD pursues the next step with meaningful orders.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Jun 2022 09:41

The plan until last year was to induct 108 nos of the aircraft.

I have not seen any reports of their being any changes to the original plan's.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 11 Jun 2022 10:11

Congratulations to the nation.
108 is very auspicious number too.

rrao · Post by **rrao** » 11 Jun 2022 12:07

Many top people including HAL CMD ,DIRECTOR )R&D and ENGG) are retiring next month .... who will be next HAL chairman? Dr.D.K. SUNIL has already been appointed as Director(R&D) HAl...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Jun 2022 14:12

Have the capability to manufacture 24 HTT-40 per year: HAL
https://idrw.org/have-the-capability-to ... -year-hal/
12 June 2022

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 20 Jun 2022 17:37

HAL’s trainer aircraft achieving milestones, en route to help IAF despite delays
June 11, 2022 6:54:40 pm
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... s/2557174/

HAL has claimed that it would soon have sophisticated trainers for stages 1 and 2 of training pilots of the IAF based on the completion of spin certification of the HTT-40 and the progress achieved by the IJT.

Group Captain Anupam Banerjee, a former IAF spokesperson, explained: ‘It is more about efficient asset management of limited resources. Advanced jet trainers are limited in number and best utilized for honing skills of air combat and armament training, while the basic trainer in the IJT category focuses on sharpening the basic flying skills of a trainee.’

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 27 Jul 2022 16:36

HAL signed a contract worth over US$100 million for 88 TPE331-12B engines/kits along with maintenance and support services to power the HTT-40.

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/155 ... H8wIw&s=19

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 27 Jul 2022 18:08

HAL, Honeywell ink $100 million pack for HTT engine.

Defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) on Wednesday said it signed a contract with Honeywell, worth more than $100 million, for supply and manufacture of 88 engines (TPE331-12B), kits along with maintenance and support services to power its Hindustan Trainer Aircraft (HTT-40).

“HAL has successfully developed a basic trainer aircraft (HTT-40) to address the training requirements of the Indian Air Force (IAF). There is a
potential requirement of 70 aircraft. The contract for the same with IAF is under advanced stage of approval,” HAL CMD R Madhavan said.
Eric Walters, senior director (OE sales), Honeywell said the TPE331-12 family of engines has proven itself in operations all over the world, and we
have committed to support and deliver engines as well as kits within the stipulated schedule to meet the requirements of the IAF.

“Honeywell is committed to support export of HTT-40 aircraft in coming years along with other engine programmes which are currently on radar. This contract would pave the way for future collaboration between HAL and Honeywell,” Walters said.

The TPE331-12B engine is a single shaft turboprop engine with integral inlet and gearbox, two-stage centrifugal compressor, power turbine, gearbox, three stage axial turbine and turbine exhaust diffuser as well as EEC for reliable power and outstanding operational characteristics.

“The HTT-40 prototypes are powered by TPE331-12B engines and have been serving well since 2014. Entering into this ‘manufacturing and repair licence agreement’ for Honeywell TPE331-12B Turboprop engine marks a major milestone in the execution of 70 HTT-40 aircraft contract with IAF,” HAL added.

The PSU said it was working closely with Honeywell for its support for export potential of HTT-40, and added: “HAL and Honeywell are exploring other areas such as 1MW turbo generators, manufacturing, repair & overhaul of TPE 331-10GP/12JR engines for variants of the Dornier aircraft,” the statement read

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2022 19:51

Prasar Bharati

HAL signs whopping $100 million deal for indigenous trainer aircraft engines

India’s largest Defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has inked a whopping $100 million deal with US conglomerate Honeywell, for 88 engines to bolster the indigenous Hindustan Turbo Trainer – 40 (HTT-40), which provides initial flying training to Indian Army, Indian Navy and Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots.

The Basic Trainer Aircraft (HTT-40) was built indigenously by HAL, which will be now powered by TPE331-12 family of engines from Honeywell.

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/155 ... wc757EFxLg

“HAL signed a contract worth over $100 million for supply and manufacture of 88 TPE331-12B engines/kits along with maintenance and support services to power the HTT-40,” HAL stated in a press announcement.

The contract was signed by Senior Director of OE Sales (Honeywell Defense and Space), Eric Walters, and Executive Director (E & IMGT) B Krishna Kumar, in the presence of Chairman and Managing Director (CMD) of HAL, R Madhavan.

Speaking on the requirement of the trainer aircraft HAL’s Chairman and Managing Director R Madhavan said, “HAL has successfully developed Basic Trainer Aircraft (HTT-40) to address the basic training requirements of the Indian Air Force (IAF). There is a potential requirement of 70 aircraft. The contract for the same with IAF is under advanced stage of approval.”

At Aero India 2021, HAL received a Request for Proposal (RFP) from the Indian Air Force for 70 Basic Trainers aircrafts. The RFP mentioned the requirement of 70 HTT-40 Basic Trainer Aircraft with provision for 38 more.

Further, it stated that the trainer will have over 60 percent indigenous content and is supported by agencies such as Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification(CEMILAC), Regional Director Aeronautical Quality Assurance (RDAQA), Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) among others.

The Power of TPE331-12 engine

The TPE331-12 family of engines has proven its mettle in operations all around the globe. The aircraft engine consists of a single shaft turboprop engine with integral inlet and gearbox.

For outstanding operational characteristics, two stage centrifugal compressor, three stage axial turbine and turbine exhaust diffuser as well as EEC are there in the engine for reliable power and outstanding operational characteristics.

Further, Honeywell has also committed to support and deliver engines as well as kits within the stipulated schedule to meet the requirements of the IAF.

“We are proud of our four decade long partnership with HAL and happy to extend our relationship with this new order,” said Mr. Eric Walters, Senior Director OE Sales, Honeywell Defense & Space.

Notably, Honeywell has committed to support export of HTT-40 aircraft in the near future along with other engine programmes which are presently on radar. This contract will pave the way for future collaboration between HAL and Honeywell.

Since 2014, HTT-40 prototypes have been powered by TPE331-12B engines. Entering into this ‘Manufacturing & Repair license agreement for Honeywell TPE331-12B Turboprop engine’ marks a major milestone in the execution of 70 HTT-40 aircraft contracts with IAF.

HAL’s 15 modern Light Combat Helicopter to bolster IAF’s air supremacy

Making giant strides towards becoming self-reliant in the Defence sector, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) led under the Chairmanship of Prime Minister Narendra Modi in March 2022 approved the procurement of 15 indigenously developed Light Combat Helicopters (LCH) at the cost of Rs. 3,887 crore along with Infrastructure sanctions worth Rs. 377 crore.

The state-of-the-art Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) has been designed and developed with approximately 45% indigenous content by value which will progressively increase to more than 55% for (series production) SP Version.