Indian Navy's ASW & AEW Assets: News & Discussion

[Manish_P]

....

We need lots of these UAVs in the air, given our humongous coastline...

.....

Exactly. After all we have an ocean named after the country

Need all types of ISR assets - Short, medium, long range MPA, short and long endurance UAVs, Satellites. Balloons!

Budgets, prioritisation are challenges but will be manageable if the economy stays on course and we can build and buy (hopefully export as well) the low hanging fruits in house. The uber cutting edge stuff can continue to be procured from outside, as per criticality.

I remain optimistic about a pragmatic IN extending support for the same. Exciting times ahead for sure...

[Lisa]

No word on SOSUS. Either nothing is happening or they are being very tight-lipped.

If we are building one, it will make sense for one near the Malacca straits also. Building and maintaining it will need a decent chunk of CapEx.

https://resonantnews.com/2020/07/03/ind ... -partners/

Dated though. also,

https://www.indianarrative.com/opinion- ... 29446.html

[Lisa]

Maybe we should have "local" SOSUS like around major bases like Mumbai, Karwar, Kochi, INS Varsha, Kalpakkam, Dr Abdul Kalaam Island, Vizag etc.

SOSUS in normally to be deployed at points of ingress and egress rather than around ports, etc.

[Pratyush]

Certain capacities should never ever be spoken off aloud.

SOSUS is one of them.

[SSridhar]

AFAIK, SOSUS does exist close to India.

[Kersi]

I think the IN P-8s are the only P-8 to have a MAD sting. True ?

[Kersi]

What is the status of IN Seakings ? How many in service for ASW or SAR ? And some Sikorsky SH 3 onboard INS Jalshawa ?

[drnayar]

I think the IN P-8s are the only P-8 to have a MAD sting. True ?

yes., the USN Poseidon is different from IN Neptune !

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 13154?s=20 ---> Indian Navy & NSTL* undertook a successful hover drop of Advanced Light Weight Torpedo on 02 May 2023 from a Sea King Mk 42B. Designed & developed by NSTL, with safe release & separation achieved, this is a crucial step towards self-reliance in air-launched ASW weapons for the Atmanirbhar Navy.

*Naval Science & Technological Laboratory (NSTL)

[Vips]

INAS 312 squadron clocks 40,000 hours of operations: Navy.

INAS 312 squadron operating P8I aircraft, based at Tamil Nadu's Arakkonam has clocked 40,000 hours, completing a decade of diverse naval operations, officials said on Wednesday. The first P8I had landed at INS Rajali on May 15, 2013, with Capt H S Jhajj as the first Commanding Officer, they said.

"INAS 312, popularly known as 'Albatross' has been at the forefront of all naval operations. P8I over the last 10 years has spearheaded operations in all three dimensions - air, surface and sub-surface. The Squadron has been rendering yeoman service, safeguarding national interests being the first responder in the Indian Ocean Region," a senior official of the Navy said.

The Navy also tweeted pictures of the aircraft.

"The INAS 312 squadron operating P8I, has clocked 40,000 hours, as the aircraft complete a decade of diverse naval operations," the official said.
INS Rajali is an Indian naval air station located at Arakkonam.

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 61505?s=20 ---> A significant milestone for the #IndianNavy - MH60R helicopter undertakes maiden landings on the indigenously designed & constructed destroyer, #INSKolkata. This is a major boost to the Indian Navy’s Anti-Submarine Warfare capability.

https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 08193?s=20 ---> MH-60R is a versatile platform known for its exceptional ASW, surveillance, anti-shipping & Search and Rescue capabilities. Integration with IN warships further strengthens the Navy’s capability to counter underwater threats, monitor maritime activities & conduct surveillance operations.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/165 ... 03683?s=20 ---> First at-sea landing by an @IndianNavy MH-60 Romeo. Seen here after landing on INS Kolkata.

[basant]

I am curious to know why MH-60R was chosen against Dhruv. Dhruv seems to have same or better specs across several parameters. Is it because of the armaments?

[Aditya_V]

If Iam right Mh60 is in the IMRH class by weight of helicopters and not in Dhruv weight class,Navy has been trying to use Dhruv in many roles but it is too light to carry enough payload of Sonar, LWT , dunking Sonar and have useful endurance.

[ramana]

I am curious to know why MH-60R was chosen against Dhruv. Dhruv seems to have the same or better specs across several parameters. Is it because of the armaments?

Much more capability and need that for PLAN subs.
Very good to see this helicopter with IN.
Yes, better sensors, weapons, and range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_SH-60_Seahawk

And it carries the Penguin missile from Norway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin_(missile)

[Kersi]

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 13154?s=20 ---> Indian Navy & NSTL* undertook a successful hover drop of Advanced Light Weight Torpedo on 02 May 2023 from a Sea King Mk 42B. Designed & developed by NSTL, with safe release & separation achieved, this is a crucial step towards self-reliance in air-launched ASW weapons for the Atmanirbhar Navy.

*Naval Science & Technological Laboratory (NSTL)

The picture shows a dunking sonar.

[ramana]

INAS 312 squadron clocks 40,000 hours of operations: Navy.

INAS 312 squadron operating P8I aircraft, based at Tamil Nadu's Arakkonam has clocked 40,000 hours, completing a decade of diverse naval operations, officials said on Wednesday. The first P8I had landed at INS Rajali on May 15, 2013, with Capt H S Jhajj as the first Commanding Officer, they said.

"INAS 312, popularly known as 'Albatross' has been at the forefront of all naval operations. P8I over the last 10 years has spearheaded operations in all three dimensions - air, surface and sub-surface. The Squadron has been rendering yeoman service, safeguarding national interests being the first responder in the Indian Ocean Region," a senior official of the Navy said.

The Navy also tweeted pictures of the aircraft.

"The INAS 312 squadron operating P8I, has clocked 40,000 hours, as the aircraft complete a decade of diverse naval operations," the official said.
INS Rajali is an Indian naval air station located at Arakkonam.

Is the plan to wear out the planes in peacetime?
Whats the logic of this excessive wear and tear?
There is not even a skirmish in the oceans.

[Vips]

Ramanaji, 40,000 hours by 10 aircrafts over a decade would give an average air time of 1 to 1.5 hours per day per airframe.

[Pratyush]

There was a study done about the requirements of the Indian Navy ASW needs and some 25 to 35 P8 were required by the Navy.

The only reference to the study I am able to find is an expired page on IDRW.

[Manish_P]

Ramanaji, 40,000 hours by 10 aircrafts over a decade would give an average air time of 1 to 1.5 hours per day per airframe.

A uptime and availability time are the truest testament to the products quality. I do think we will be getting much more of these platforms, and the Sea Guardians, in the near future.

The IAFs experience with the C17s has been a very good one as well.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 02720?s=20 ---> Another milestone for Indian Navy - MH-60R helicopter undertakes maiden landing on the indigenously designed & constructed aircraft carrier INS Vikrant. A major boost to the Indian Navy's Anti-Submarine Warfare & Fleet Support capability.

VIDEO: https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 20/video/1

[venkat_kv]

INAS 312 squadron clocks 40,000 hours of operations: Navy.

INAS 312 squadron operating P8I aircraft, based at Tamil Nadu's Arakkonam has clocked 40,000 hours, completing a decade of diverse naval operations, officials said on Wednesday. The first P8I had landed at INS Rajali on May 15, 2013, with Capt H S Jhajj as the first Commanding Officer, they said.

"INAS 312, popularly known as 'Albatross' has been at the forefront of all naval operations. P8I over the last 10 years has spearheaded operations in all three dimensions - air, surface and sub-surface. The Squadron has been rendering yeoman service, safeguarding national interests being the first responder in the Indian Ocean Region," a senior official of the Navy said.

The Navy also tweeted pictures of the aircraft.

"The INAS 312 squadron operating P8I, has clocked 40,000 hours, as the aircraft complete a decade of diverse naval operations," the official said.
INS Rajali is an Indian naval air station located at Arakkonam.

Is the plan to wear out the planes in peacetime?
Whats the logic of this excessive wear and tear?
There is not even a skirmish in the oceans.

Ramana Saar,
Certainly not an expert info in these things, but the high usage could be due to being a new type and training and usage being flogged.
Also we have been pretty busy in the IOR and recent exercises, with also the P8I probably being used for flying around Sri Lanka and also Andaman with the chinese ships being berthed more frequently than in the past in Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Also mentioned is that the P8I's are first responders in the Indian ocean, so any case of fisherman missing to any suspicious activity could al be use cases for the aircraft.

[Cybaru]

INAS 312 squadron clocks 40,000 hours of operations: Navy.

INAS 312 squadron operating P8I aircraft, based at Tamil Nadu's Arakkonam has clocked 40,000 hours, completing a decade of diverse naval operations, officials said on Wednesday. The first P8I had landed at INS Rajali on May 15, 2013, with Capt H S Jhajj as the first Commanding Officer, they said.

"INAS 312, popularly known as 'Albatross' has been at the forefront of all naval operations. P8I over the last 10 years has spearheaded operations in all three dimensions - air, surface and sub-surface. The Squadron has been rendering yeoman service, safeguarding national interests being the first responder in the Indian Ocean Region," a senior official of the Navy said.

The Navy also tweeted pictures of the aircraft.

"The INAS 312 squadron operating P8I, has clocked 40,000 hours, as the aircraft complete a decade of diverse naval operations," the official said.
INS Rajali is an Indian naval air station located at Arakkonam.

Is the plan to wear out the planes in peacetime?
Whats the logic of this excessive wear and tear?
There is not even a skirmish in the oceans.

B-52s are still flying and will till 2045. A 100 years later.
After the cycles of landing and take off are concerned, which tends to be 2-3 times a day with civilian airlines, they last 20 years. These will easily last 50-60 years with our usage.

[Manish_P]

^ I think Ramana ji's point was that these are very costly, highly specialized military platforms, and which we actually need more numbers of, as it is.

We should therfore use them very carefully only for mil Ops (including training).

For 'first responder' situations we should procure/develop other more suitable (purpose-built) platforms.

[Pratyush]

The Indian Navy needs to explore large business jet based surveillance platforms as well. Those have intercontinental ranges and ok payload capacity.

The Royal Canadian Navy is exploring such a platform.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... om-canada/
20 May 2023


Along with UAV based surveillance capacity.

[Cybaru]

^ I think Ramana ji's point was that these are very costly, highly specialized military platforms, and which we actually need more numbers of, as it is.

We should therfore use them very carefully only for mil Ops (including training).

For 'first responder' situations we should procure/develop other more suitable (purpose-built) platforms.

1 p8 is equal to 4-5 p3 Orion from crews (airshow interview)
2-3 p8i’s are as good as the whole squadron of tu142s
5000 hours in 10 years per plane is low. 625 landing/takeoff cycles assuming long haul pattern. They are probably rated for 60k cycles. They got 90% of life left.

Use them tools in peacetime to understand its limits. These commercial platform adaptations are designed for very high uptime and relatively cheap ops. We won’t run out of hours on these. Plus maybe we get 6 more and 10 hale uavs during June visit.

Hope they order another 24 mhr60s in sub hunting configuration.

[Manish_P]

..
Use them tools in peacetime to understand its limits. These commercial platform adaptations are designed for very high uptime and relatively cheap ops. We won’t run out of hours on these. Plus maybe we get 6 more and 10 hale uavs during June visit.
...

Yes. No argument there. Just that get more numbers of dedicated purpose built commercial platform adaptions for first responder ops. Or order many more of these so that you get them at a better price..and before the production stops (a la the C17s)

The airframes are rated at decades lifetime but the critical components including the engines require maintenance/overhauls/replacements in shorter time-frame, resulting in down-times (planned).

[Aditya_V]

Varunastra tested today, was it ship launched or submarine launched?