Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

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nachiket
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by nachiket »

YashG wrote:
RishiChatterjee wrote:
It won't be... LCA has no ASM weapon as of now. I hate that Jf-17 has two.
The best part abt lca - we can do anything with it - integrate anything. So if we have a AShM missile (maybe Barhmos NG) that we want to put on NLCA we will. I think limitation might be more from the point is that loadout possible - AshM + BVR/CCM.
No need to wait for Brahmos NG. It shouldn't be impossible to integrate the Kh-35 and/or the Harpoon. Or just forget about it and use the NLCA for anti-air only. We already have the Mig-29's armed with Kh-35's on the carrier(s). The NLCA can provide top cover.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by RishiChatterjee »

YashG wrote:So if we have a AShM missile (maybe Barhmos NG) that we want to put on NLCA we will. I think limitation might be more from the point is that loadout possible - AshM + BVR/CCM.
Last I heard in 2019 that Brahmos-NG prototype would come in 2024, although I don't get how lighter (700-800kg against 1.5ton+) LFRJ won't make it redundant... RudraM-3 aeroballistic would be a good addition to Tejas too (neither to NLCA, yes, due to mentored payload limitations).

I'm not sure about Nirbhay ALCM (at 1000kg target weight, it'd otherwise be feasible too). Then there's CATS Hunter with what seems like TV guidance.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by basant »

RishiChatterjee wrote:It's not more draggy that IAF Tejas.. Actually there's a graph on DFI that shows better L/D ratio with levcons (better STR too). NLCA is best used as a dogfighter.
You are right and there is an excellent article in DDR on NLCA. The empty weight of NLCA is definitely more, variously speculated in the range of 1.6-2.2 tons. I don't see any reason to believe that NLCA will have same range as Tejas with identical payload. If the gains in NLCA were significant enough, IAF would have asked for the same too (as it has done with F414); note that this was never the case. Of course, there could be multiple reasons such as necessary timeframe, Mk2/MWF, etc., for the same.

I reckon long back IR teased everyone talking of some TPs/ADA rethinking on some significant improvement possible but what was not pursued..., somehow I missed what it was due to busy schedule. Guess it must be the LEVCONs.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by RishiChatterjee »

basant wrote:
I reckon long back IR teased everyone talking of some TPs/ADA rethinking on some significant improvement possible but what was not pursued..., somehow I missed what it was due to busy schedule. Guess it must be the LEVCONs.
I've actually wondered why not use levcons on IAF model too if it increases performance.. as opposed to its initially speculated role of only decreasing landing speed for carrier ops.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by basant »

Overall scheme, I guess. Especially related to tradeoffs wrt to performance gains vs FBW complexity.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

Levcons indeed help with L/D at high AoA. @Rishi, that graph was a from the following paper https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A ... 6194f0ea16.

But they come at the cost of weight. Basically, a LEVCON has to be held at neutral position at almost all times (even in level flight). This necessitates a very strong and hence heavy actuators. The engineers solved the problem by using vortex flaps instead. Vortex flaps are held in position in neutral by airflow (kind of like spoilers) and are deployed only when required. This lowers the stress on the actuators, allowing significantly reduced weight and maintenance. This is what they had planed for in NLCA Mk2.

By the way, I have seen speculations that TEDBF will employ vortex flaps. This is untrue. One doesn't need vortex flaps when one has close coupled canards. The latter can create the same effects when desired.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by nachiket »

Indranil wrote: By the way, I have seen speculations that TEDBF will employ vortex flaps. This is untrue. One doesn't need vortex flaps when one has close coupled canards. The latter can create the same effects when desired.
What about the second design they had for TEDBF which was a tailed delta without canards? Maybe that requires vortex flaps? Haven't heard much about it since Aero India showcased the canard layout. But from the interviews back then it seemed they hadn't finalized on the canard-delta design yet and both were in play.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

This tweet is dated 03 August 2021.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14227 ... 94369?s=20 ---> President's Colours to Indian Naval Aviation. Looking forward to the forthcoming event.

Image
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Karan M »

RishiChatterjee wrote:Anyone can tell what these could be, on the NP-2 in place of the 2nd guy in NP-1?.. Where would those be in case of the twin-seater?

Image
Those are avionics. The white box is the Sigma-95N RLG INS. The grey box in front would likely be part of the ECS or some other avionics item.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by KSingh »

YashG wrote:Maybe a noob-pooch But if Vik+NLCA is used against offensive against pakistan - what would be our missions ?

1. Destroy PNS assets; PNS naval assets have thin air defense. This would require an AShM - Will be heavier than BVR/WVR AAMs. So a more useful loadout should be be a AShM + CCM/BVR mix?

2. Bomb Karachi port - In which case also we will need heavier SaaW/Dumb Bombs + CCM/BVR.

Will this kind of useful loadout be possible?
NLCA in CAP mission frees up the 29Ks (maybe even MKIs that would be used for the same purpose otherwise?) to conduct strike missions


NLCA will also take your less space in the hanger giving mission planners more flexibility


But the primary utility will be taking away load from the 29K fleet for training and carrier qualification- the less life that can be taken from the 29Ks the better, their relatively short history with the IN has thus far been less than impressive, this fleet has to limp on till TEDBF is ready otherwise the 2 carriers are entirely white elephants.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14027 ... 20386?s=20 --->

Having built the foundation for a 100-story sky scraper, we aren't going to stop at the first floor...

The whole world knows, we've cracked it. The future belongs to us.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Armuan »

Stunning fan art of Naval Tejas with an imaginary camo and squadron. Credit to Harshal.

https://twitter.com/HarshalPal5/status/ ... 34/photo/1

And while CFTs are a no go as of now, this one with CFTs. Good imagination; got to say it looks gorgeous.

https://twitter.com/HarshalPal5/status/ ... 70/photo/1
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by VKumar »

Two squadrons of Naval Tejas as backup for Mig 29
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Cyrano »

CFTs look terrible on any plane. Like Rambha becoming Rakhi Sawant.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by sankum »

http://www.aeromag.in/Magazines/1485945166.pdf

R Madhavan
CMD, HAL interview
A third trainer prototype
(NP5) is in the final stages of build and is
expected to fly in March 2022.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

X-Post from Indian Naval Aviation thread.
VinodTK wrote:#HamaraHeroes-4 | Listen to Mao, one of the finest naval aviators of India | #NLCA, #TEDBF & more
This youtube video has been added to the first post of this thread. Thank You Vinod.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

This picture is aboard INS Vikramaditya in Jan 2020, when she did her first landing and take off from the ship.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf_/status/1481 ... 06400?s=20 --->

Image

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf_/status/1481 ... 31139?s=20 --->

Image
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by srin »

Amazing interview with Cmde Jaideep Maolankar on LCA Navy testing

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

Thank you srin. Added both videos on page 1 of this thread.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... zWLgnifk_w ---> Arrestor Hook System of the LCA Navy.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/159 ... dUPXjl4phQ ---> Anyway, within the next few months the LCA-Navy will make a landing on the INS Vikrant. Thereby marking an event wherein an indigenous fighter will land on an indigenous aircraft carrier for the first time in Indian history.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by ashishvikas »

BREAKING: An LCA Navy has just made its maiden landing and take-off from aircraft carrier INS Vikrant. First photos:

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/162 ... bbvYTQExMg

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Pratyush »

What are they trying to achieve with such activities.

Are they thinking in terms of putting the Jet in service as a fighter for the ship?

IMO, If it can manage a full internal fuel take-off with even 40 Max payload. It should be a good defensive fighter for the ship.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by arvin »

Good sense seems to have dawned on higher ups.
IMO even if it carries a single Harpoon(519 kg) or Exocet (780 kg)
in its centerline, it will be useful.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Prem Kumar »

What an awesome day for our Naval Aviation - Tejas landing on a Vikrant!!

These exercises might be used to prove-out the protocols, testing arrestor cables, lifts, ski-jump functioning etc for Vikrant. Why wait till Rafale-M comes?

They might also use this as an opportunity to test Tejas-M as well, the learnings for which will go into TEDBF. All in all, a good move!
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Vips »

'Historic milestone': Naval pilots carry out first jet landing on INS Vikrant.

In a historic milestone, the Indian Navy on Monday carried out the maiden landing of India's indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA-Navy) onboard aircraft carrier INS Vikrant.

"A Historical milestone achieved towards Aatma Nirbhar Bharat by Indian Navy as naval pilots carry out landing of LCA (Navy) onboard INS Vikrant," the Navy said in a statement.

The Navy said naval pilots carried out the landing.

It said the landing demonstrated India's capability to design, develop, construct and operate indigenous aircraft carrier with indigenous fighter aircraft.

In September, Prime Minister Narendra Modi commissioned India's first indigenously-built aircraft carrier INS Vikrant (IAC I) that made the country part of an elite group of nations capable of manufacturing aircraft carriers above 40,000 tonnes category.

The Navy had said the aircraft carrier would be able to play a role in ensuring peace and stability in the IndoPacific region. The statement came in the backdrop of China's growing dominance in the region.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by AkshaySG »

Fantastic news.

The icing on the cake would be if IN ordered a squadron worth of N-LCA for training and shore based Ops.

Signals confidence in the program while taking away some of the workload from Mig29k while we acquire the winner of the MRCBF contest and work on TEDBF.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... PKROjM5I6w ---> Another historic first! LCA NP-2 traps aboard the Indian Navy's INS Vikrant, the first aircraft to be recovered by the indigenous aircraft carrier as part of its post-commissioning workup. The jet was flown by Capt Shivnath 'DAX' Dahiya, CO of the Naval Flight Test Sqn (INAS 552).

https://twitter.com/JA_Maolankar/status ... PKROjM5I6w ---> And so now she actually becomes an aircraft carrier! Pretty much as good as it gets for a Naval flight test unit. No surprises, no fuss - the Navy way. The images capture essence of Naval aviation - deep integration between ship and aircraft! Not visible in the photos is the fantastic depth in carrier suitability design and testing we now own. Congratulations Dax you have truly earned this honour after > 15 years of toil! Very proud of your achievements and the way you have steered this enterprise! And the whole ADA/HAL team too. And let’s not forget the Naval overseeing team at Kochi that I know (from personal experience) put in exceptional efforts to ensure the design mods and smoothing of rough edges necessary to enable safe fighter operations !!
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

Great news! Congratulations to all involved.

First post on page 1 - under the "Milestones Achieved" subheading - has been updated with the above info.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/162 ... R4Biz6FPsw --->

LCA Navy 1st Landing On INS Vikrant

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by fanne »

the takeoff is without any afterburner!! Hmm on close examination, there AB may have been engaged.
Last edited by fanne on 06 Feb 2023 22:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

From Group Captain MJA Vinod (retd), IAF and former MiG-21 and Mirage 2000 pilot.

https://twitter.com/mjavinod/status/162 ... R4Biz6FPsw ---> Commodore Dahiya who landed this Tejas on INS Vikrant happens to be a pupil of mine. I had the opportunity of teaching him jet flying. Was one of the brightest I taught. That batch I had two pupils, both were from navy.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

Pratyush wrote:What are they trying to achieve with such activities.

Are they thinking in terms of putting the Jet in service as a fighter for the ship?

IMO, If it can manage a full internal fuel take-off with even 40 Max payload. It should be a good defensive fighter for the ship.
https://twitter.com/HariRam42245512/sta ... R4Biz6FPsw ---> If you listen to @JA_Maolankar on @blueskiespod1 there are serious issues in doing that. Very convincing reasons as to why it cannot, or should not be done.

LCA Part 6 - Commodore Jaideep Maolankar (Retd) test flying the LCA (Part 1 of 2)



LCA Part 7 - Commodore Jaideep Maolankar (Retd) test flying the LCA (Part 2 of 2)

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/realkaypius/status/ ... R4Biz6FPsw ---> Enable -- Enhance -- Evolve. Many hands. One resolve.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by fanne »

Rakesh, I have to listen to full 1.5 hours to get the answer (that is on top of, I have already heard it many months ago). Can you do few lines please on the reason?
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by putnanja »

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by V_Raman »

Any other country would have ordered atleast one carrier worth of these fighters by now and manufactured it by hook/crook.
Last edited by suryag on 07 Feb 2023 01:59, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Calling Indian forces names will lead to warning next time
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by KSingh »

Pratyush wrote:What are they trying to achieve with such activities.

Are they thinking in terms of putting the Jet in service as a fighter for the ship?

IMO, If it can manage a full internal fuel take-off with even 40 Max payload. It should be a good defensive fighter for the ship.
As far as the navy is concerned NLCA is a dead end. It was formally moved to a TD project some time back.

https://twitter.com/ksingh_1469/status/ ... kXF7eFgdgg


It now exists purely to create capacity for TEDBF. It will surely do that but failing to order and operationalise it even in a limited capacity is a huge black mark on the ‘builder’s navy’. A TD project is one thing but real world Ops with production aircraft is a completely different ball game

This is a feat not even the Chinese have achieved thus far but as usual myopia and the quest for perfect is ensuring india lags
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by fanne »

if I were to suggest something dumb - We do not know for sure what was IN objection. Journalist (and we know how good they are) have reported two things 1) It is single engine (so was Sea Harriers and are F-35s) and 2) It does not have enough thrust (which matters hugely for IN, it will take up space and if it cannot carry meaningful store for reasonable time, it is useless)

We cannot do anything about 1, except, engine is reliable but for 2, we can go for f404epe (rumors are that there exist an engine). It gives supposedly 10-15% more power. We can perhaps try that?
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