Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

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Indranil
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

The INSV crew was pleasantly surprised by the ease of operations on deck. The aircrafts was moved below deck for a minor repair. So essentially every aspect has been checked except for arming and disarming onboard
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Kakarat »

Hope they release pictures of LCA Navy on the lift and the hangar soon
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by JayS »

Indranil wrote:NLCA Mk1 has aced the tests. It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!
Only way to win trust and hearts of the Forces is to give then kick-ass products. Good show by NLCA Team.

BTW any plan for night TO/Landing on this test campaign..??
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by JayS »

Kartik wrote:I don't know about that unless you got that from an ADA source...
Cmd Mao had mentioned it in his AeroIndia Seminar a long time back. I dug more to verify what he said was correct because it was against the usually said this what you have said. There is at least one evidence to corroborate his statement. A quote from MoD Reports from early 2000's
Design activities on LCA Trainer Variant - LCA(PV5), ensuring commonality with LCA (Navy), has been initiated.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by mody »

srai wrote:mody,
Not possible to meet your specs for a light fighter.
In the current set of tests as Indranil said above, the plane took off with full internal fuel.
If the NLCA can TO with full internal fuel, 1 centerline drop tank, plus 6 Air to Air missiles, what will be the combat radius of the plane and the maximum on station time?
I would guess with full internal fuel and 1 drop tank the combat radius will be about 350 Kms and on station time of approximately 1.5 Hours or slightly higher. For the Tejas, we know that the combat radius of 500Kms with drop tanks, is on the lower side and actual figures are better.

A combat radius of 300 Kms is a minimum that is required to provide meaningfull air cover to any CBG.
If the NLCA can achieve the above figures, a minimum of 4-6 planes each on board Vikramaditya and Vikrant, would be a good addition to the Mig-29Ks. Plus actual operational experience on board the carrier would provide priceless feedback to the designers, manufacturer and service crew, for future naval fighters.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by pushkar.bhat »

How much would a centreline fuel tank add to the weight of the clean aircraft with full internal fuel tanks?
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by fanne »

Weight of fuel is always .75 weight of that much volume of water + gas tank weight.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by fanne »

It was full fuel if there was missed arrested landing the plane can takeoff and land in goa that was many 100 miles away- per news itself
Indranil
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

JayS wrote:
Indranil wrote:NLCA Mk1 has aced the tests. It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!
Only way to win trust and hearts of the Forces is to give then kick-ass products. Good show by NLCA Team.

BTW any plan for night TO/Landing on this test campaign..??
This test campaign is over. The next one is potentially in March
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

agupta wrote:
Indranil wrote:... It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!

Would you share how you surmised that ? Chaiwalla or official confirmation ? Good news if so.

If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)
Official chaiwalla information. His chai is very high quality, because he grows the tea himself.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by SidSoma »

agupta wrote:
If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)
We have no idea that full fuel load took off with 65kN....No way to surmise that.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by JayS »

SidSoma wrote:
agupta wrote:
If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)
We have no idea that full fuel load took off with 65kN....No way to surmise that.
Well there's a way.
JayS wrote: Nice that we have HUD video. I dont understand the whole symbology but from the data points
- Total TO role was ~7.5s
- TO Roll was ~200m
- Avg acceleration on the deck was ~0.6 ish
- Thrust was ~63kN
we can estimate the TOW must have been somewhere around 10.5T. Likely the Max clean TO or thereabout.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by suryag »

Omg !!! Mk2 or tedbf tho iska baap niklega
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by SidSoma »

JayS wrote:
SidSoma wrote:
We have no idea that full fuel load took off with 65kN....No way to surmise that.
Well there's a way.
JayS wrote: Nice that we have HUD video. I dont understand the whole symbology but from the data points
- Total TO role was ~7.5s
- TO Roll was ~200m
- Avg acceleration on the deck was ~0.6 ish
- Thrust was ~63kN
we can estimate the TOW must have been somewhere around 10.5T. Likely the Max clean TO or thereabout.
Just wow..... May be someone out there is trying to prove a point to someone. Really exciting....So 10.5 ToW with 63kN what will it be at 83kN
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by fanne »

At least 2 ton weapon/fuel - 1 ton fuel and 3 bvr + 3 wvr- enough for carrier cap with 1:30 hours to 2 hours cap.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by suryag »

Time for HAL to put forth a proposal for naval Tejas mk1a will be in time for vikrant
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by nam »

Wouldn't combat radius be a variable, rather than a fixed number?

If you want longer radius, you get it by reducing station time. Ofcourse it is always a balance, based on the adequate number of jets you can keep in air against the threat level.

If you have a high availability jet, which you can fly back again after refueling. This would allow you to increase the radius.

Add to this, if the jet is smaller, you can have more numbers on the carrier..
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Kartik »

Va Va Voom! what a pic!

Image
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by sudeepj »

Not sure if this was posted earlier.. A complete twitter thread describing the meaning of all the symbols on the NLA HUD.

https://twitter.com/Charles_36FS/status ... 5298242560
2/ At the start of the video while the aircraft is at rest, Waterline (denoted by W at the center) is bracketed by ">> <<" symbol. Waterline denotes the exact point at which the a/c's nose is pointing.
Charles Bronson
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·
Jan 16
3/ ">> <<" denotes the acceleration/deceleration of the a/c & is therefore known as the acceleration chevron. After take-off, accel. chevron is above the Flight Path Marker (FPM) denoting the LCA is gaining speed with a positive rate of climb.
Charles Bronson
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Jan 16
4/ FPM can be seen as a tiny circle in the center merging with a long horizontal line extending across the HUD. This is known as 'horizon line'. If the FPM is at the level of horizon line then the a/c is in level flight (not gaining/losing altitude).
Charles Bronson
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Jan 16
5/ The box with the value 0.00 exactly above the waterline at the start of the video denotes the acceleration of the aircraft at a given level of thrust. It's value rises once the chocks are removed.
Charles Bronson
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Jan 16
6/ The number on the left denoted by '2.0' is the AoA or the alpha-angle. It measures in degrees the difference between the direction at which a/c's nose is pointing (denoted by waterline) & the flight path of LCA (denoted by FPM).
Charles Bronson
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Jan 16
7/ Note the sharp rise in AoA once the pilot pulls up after exiting the ramp. 63.2 KN on the bottom left denotes the level of thrust generated by LCA.
Charles Bronson
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·
Jan 16
8/ The number at the top left is the Calibrated Air Speed in knots, the tape in the top center is the magnetic heading tape & the number on the top right is the barometric altitude in feet. After LCA is airborne, the box with acceleration value in the center disappears.
Charles Bronson
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Jan 16
9/ It is replaced with an up-arrow on the right side of waterline with a value which denotes the a/c's current rate of climb. ">> <<" denotes acceleration. Also the number just below the waterline after take-off denotes the radar altimeter value of the aircraft.
Charles Bronson
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·
Jan 16
10/ Once LCA is airborne, a 'I' shaped bracket appears on the left of waterline. This is the AoA bracket- pretty darn useful while landing & also denotes the gear is down.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
11/ G force is indicated by the number on the left between AoA & the engine thrust, appearing soon after LCA is airborne. After take-off, there are two numbers on the top right, situated above one another.
Charles Bronson
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·
Jan 16
12/ They denote the altitude of a/c, top being the barometric altitude; bottom one being the radar altitude with 'P'. On the bottom right you have waypoint information (distance & time to next waypoint).
Charles Bronson
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Jan 16
13/ The pentagonal box which appears in the center of HUD after LCA is airborne possibly denotes the nearest waypoint.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Cybaru »

Isn't HUD symbology heavily guarded for some reason?
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Raveen »

Cybaru wrote:Isn't HUD symbology heavily guarded for some reason?
Doubt it since so many HUD videos are available in the public domain from all airforces across the world
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by disha »

Cybaru wrote:Isn't HUD symbology heavily guarded for some reason?
This is a symbology for take-off which was released. Reason could be to show the capability to certain "dushman nations". By itself it is benign. Since they have not released it for landing and definitely not for ops and other roles.

With this, it is evident that NLCA can take off with 2.5 tonnes of stores. Not bad at all. With proper optimizations it can do 3 tonnes.

That is why I am votary of inducting 1 squadron of NLCA. Move on to NLCA Mk2 with GE-F414 and redesigned placement of landing gear to optimize on hardpoints. That will give it very decent 4-5 tonnes and a larger combat radius. If it can carry 3 Brahmos-NG and 2 CC WVR, it will be a deadly package. Any other Carrier group will have to now have a minimum stand off distance of 1000 Km from Vikramaditya.

Hence we should go for NLCA Mk2 (2 squadrons). After that we should look at TEDBF - which is a paper plane. But a good step forward before NAMCA.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12211 ... 68576?s=20 ---> Yup! It is looking battle worn. They have been out in the corrosive SBTF (Shore Based Test Facility) for many months now. Should have got ready for the photo op. I am sure the program manager requested and the crew told him to get lost. I know them well. Optics is not their game.

Request ---> don't judge the book by it's cover.

^^^ Above tweet is in response to tweet below. I have edited the above tweet for easy reading.

https://twitter.com/GrumpyChanakya/stat ... 05792?s=20 ---> Why does the craft look so unclean?

Image
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

Huh!! Kaam kar rahe the bhai. Beauty show nahi tha!!!
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

how anyone can complain about the uncleanliness of the aircraft versus the beauty of the photo is beyond me.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Philip »

Yes,if the money is there one sqd. of the NLCA could complement the 29Ks in a meaningful manner.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Thakur_B »

I have always wondered, what are those two white antenna like things right in front of cockpit ?
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Prasad »

Indranil wrote:Huh!! Kaam kar rahe the bhai. Beauty show nahi tha!!!
Yeah but...
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Dileep »

Thakur_B wrote:I have always wondered, what are those two white antenna like things right in front of cockpit ?
GPS Antenna.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Vivek K »

It would be short sighted to not order a squadron of the NLCA. Hopefully good sense will prevail.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Kartik »

Rakesh wrote:how anyone can complain about the uncleanliness of the aircraft versus the beauty of the photo is beyond me.
There are idiots out there who say that the airplane is rusty and not well maintained. :roll:

That is the level of some of the folks out there commenting on things they haven't the foggiest idea about. If that person visited an air base and saw some of the older jets, he'd have a heart attack. Those jets are all flying fit, but not necessarily scrubbed down and polished like a USAF Thunderbirds jet because that really isn't that important for them.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

Aircafts in active service look like this. Naval planes even more so.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Kartik »

Naval LCA NP-2 with its elder brother MiG-29K on board INS Vikramaditya

Image
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by kit »

Indranil wrote:Aircafts in active service look like this. Naval planes even more so.
One can just imagine the level of maintenance required for a stealth fighter ... just after *each* flight !!
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SoumyaR57322232/sta ... 24320?s=20 ----> Sir...recently Tejas landed on Vikramaditya..And also it was taken to the hangar for a small repair....(fits on Vikramaditya lift). Hot refueling was done on the deck....Navy was quite impressed.

^^^^ Response to comment above is the tweet below....

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12243 ... 09792?s=20 ----> It is impressive by any standard.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/JA_Maolankar/status ... 15425?s=20 ---> Wonderful shot after the night trap which aptly depicts the serenity that follows after the brutal violence of a night trap!

Click on the link to see the picture ----> https://www.instagram.com/p/B42NN2MhR13 ... cje7srygxb
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by shaun »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12178 ... 49/photo/1 ----> LCA Navy...What a bird. Incredible shot. BTW, Drone Geo-Lock doesn't work off-shore. Thanks Deb Rana.

Image
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Manish_Sharma »

A gem from Maolankar Sir....

Moving forward with the LCA (Navy)
https://www.vayuaerospace.in/article/342/index.aspx
30 Jan 2020
Indranil
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Indranil »

This man deserves a Bharat-ratna. Rakesh, please pin this report to the first post. IN BIG BOLD LETTERS.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Post by Vivek K »

You beat me to it IR! His contribution to Indian aviation is no less than the researchers and KH. Some day India should recognize that inspite of all obstacles, impacts to their careers - men like these believed in India and are amongst her greatest patriots.
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