Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4435
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby srai » 17 Jan 2020 18:52

mody,
Not possible to meet your specs for a light fighter.

nits
BRFite
Posts: 1003
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby nits » 17 Jan 2020 19:14

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1218014651234971648

#NLCAUpdates to follow. Stay-tuned for a small report that summarises events in the 18 cycles so far. Must tell you folks that the success of the current mission and the attention #NLCA is getting seem to have created some flutter in few quarters.


And who are this flutter flys :D

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7304
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby disha » 18 Jan 2020 01:01

Congratulations to IN and the NLCA team (incl. ADA/HAL/DRDO and all contributors big or small)

This is indeed an epoch and as a primary votary of NLCA, I received the news with immense satisfaction. A dream almost a decade in making. And this needs to continue.

I find it odd that there is discussions of TEDBF, which I think is premature. Cutting to chase, here is my wish list:

1. At least 12 NLCA-Mk1 with F404.
2. At least 2 squadrons of NLCA-Mk2 with F414, with a redesigned MLG and Vortex flaps.
3. TEDBF.

Point is that NLCA-Mk2 can fly in 2025 itself/ In parallel, TEDBF can move forward without the pressure. A delay in TEDBF will not jeopardize home-grown Naval airfighter plan.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5033
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Kartik » 18 Jan 2020 02:10

ramana wrote:jayS and agupta don't forget the levcons.
I think mid fuselage, stronger undercarriage and adding levcons.
Then add the FCS changes to accommodate the levcons.
I would say 20% structural and 25% additional FCS and systems integration.
i.e. 10-15% original estimate + 5% more for levcons and wing changes.

I think the original estimate was for just structures.
Most engineers will give answers to the questions asked and not the total answer if not asked.

Sorry whats LG?

N-LCA was designed off of the Tejas trainer and not the Tejas single seat Mk1 design. Should have about 60-70% parts commonality between the N-LCA and Tejas trainer.

Forward fuselage saw changes to the Outer Mould Line (OML) itself. This is due to the drooped nose for better forward visibility for the pilot. So essentially a different set of drawings for the forward fuselage to cater to that change.

Aft fuselage will see a lot of structural reinforcements and also an attachment point to attach the arresting hook and be able to transfer massive loads to the central keel. That would've added significant weight, with the entire arresting mechanism weighing a couple hundred kgs at least.

2 LEVCONS required 2 pairs of actuators that are an additional weight item.

Nose Landing Gear (NLG) is also totally different compare to the Tejas. Beefier and with a single wheel due to different "jitter" requirements.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4499
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby JayS » 18 Jan 2020 02:40

Kartik wrote:N-LCA was designed off of the Tejas trainer and not the Tejas single seat Mk1 design.

Interestingly, its the LCA Trainer which is designed from NLCA, not the other way round.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5033
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Kartik » 18 Jan 2020 06:10

I don't know about that unless you got that from an ADA source..Ajai Shukla had mentioned that Tejas twin seater was the basis for the Naval LCA. And that makes sense given that the Tejas trainer PV-5 flew first (Nov 26, 2009) well before N-LCA NP-1 did.

Tejas twin seat trainer's first flight today - Nov 26, 2009

The twin-seat Tejas is also important for the Indian Navy. The naval version of the Tejas, which will operate off aircraft carriers, will be based on the Tejas trainer; its higher cockpit allows the pilot a view of the carrier landing deck while descending steeply to land. In the naval Tejas, there is no second cockpit; its place is taken by an extra fuel tank and some avionics.


Naval LCA NP-1 flew first on April 27, 2012. it was in fact rolled out in June 2010.

LCA Navy prototype completes maiden flight

The naval prototype (NP-1) of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) completed a glitch-free 21-minute maiden flight here on Friday, after almost two years since its roll out on July 6, 2010.


Unless of course, the Naval LCA was delayed and the Tejas trainer that was based on N-LCA flew before it did.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2020 11:13

NLCA Mk1 has aced the tests. It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!

SidSoma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 16 Feb 2018 15:09

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby SidSoma » 18 Jan 2020 11:23

Indranil wrote:NLCA Mk1 has aced the tests. It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!


Now to watch the flutters.....

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2020 11:46

The INSV crew was pleasantly surprised by the ease of operations on deck. The aircrafts was moved below deck for a minor repair. So essentially every aspect has been checked except for arming and disarming onboard

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1974
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Kakarat » 18 Jan 2020 13:49

Hope they release pictures of LCA Navy on the lift and the hangar soon

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4499
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby JayS » 18 Jan 2020 15:36

Indranil wrote:NLCA Mk1 has aced the tests. It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!

Only way to win trust and hearts of the Forces is to give then kick-ass products. Good show by NLCA Team.

BTW any plan for night TO/Landing on this test campaign..??

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4499
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby JayS » 18 Jan 2020 15:42

Kartik wrote:I don't know about that unless you got that from an ADA source...


Cmd Mao had mentioned it in his AeroIndia Seminar a long time back. I dug more to verify what he said was correct because it was against the usually said this what you have said. There is at least one evidence to corroborate his statement. A quote from MoD Reports from early 2000's

Design activities on LCA Trainer Variant - LCA(PV5), ensuring commonality with LCA (Navy), has been initiated.

mody
BRFite
Posts: 619
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby mody » 18 Jan 2020 17:30

srai wrote:mody,
Not possible to meet your specs for a light fighter.


In the current set of tests as Indranil said above, the plane took off with full internal fuel.
If the NLCA can TO with full internal fuel, 1 centerline drop tank, plus 6 Air to Air missiles, what will be the combat radius of the plane and the maximum on station time?
I would guess with full internal fuel and 1 drop tank the combat radius will be about 350 Kms and on station time of approximately 1.5 Hours or slightly higher. For the Tejas, we know that the combat radius of 500Kms with drop tanks, is on the lower side and actual figures are better.

A combat radius of 300 Kms is a minimum that is required to provide meaningfull air cover to any CBG.
If the NLCA can achieve the above figures, a minimum of 4-6 planes each on board Vikramaditya and Vikrant, would be a good addition to the Mig-29Ks. Plus actual operational experience on board the carrier would provide priceless feedback to the designers, manufacturer and service crew, for future naval fighters.

pushkar.bhat
BRFite
Posts: 293
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
Contact:

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 18 Jan 2020 18:59

How much would a centreline fuel tank add to the weight of the clean aircraft with full internal fuel tanks?

agupta
BRFite
Posts: 283
Joined: 13 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby agupta » 18 Jan 2020 19:06

Indranil wrote:... It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!



Would you share how you surmised that ? Chaiwalla or official confirmation ? Good news if so.

If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3299
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby fanne » 18 Jan 2020 19:08

Weight of fuel is always .75 weight of that much volume of water + gas tank weight.

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3299
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby fanne » 18 Jan 2020 19:10

It was full fuel if there was missed arrested landing the plane can takeoff and land in goa that was many 100 miles away- per news itself

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2020 19:12

JayS wrote:
Indranil wrote:NLCA Mk1 has aced the tests. It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!

Only way to win trust and hearts of the Forces is to give then kick-ass products. Good show by NLCA Team.

BTW any plan for night TO/Landing on this test campaign..??

This test campaign is over. The next one is potentially in March

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2020 19:14

agupta wrote:
Indranil wrote:... It was not supposed to TO with full fuel in this round of testing, but it did. It seems like TO with full fuel, plus centerline fuel tank and 4 to 6 A2A missiles will be possible. WOW!!!



Would you share how you surmised that ? Chaiwalla or official confirmation ? Good news if so.

If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)

Official chaiwalla information. His chai is very high quality, because he grows the tea himself.

SidSoma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 16 Feb 2018 15:09

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby SidSoma » 18 Jan 2020 19:31

agupta wrote:
If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)


We have no idea that full fuel load took off with 65kN....No way to surmise that.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4499
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby JayS » 18 Jan 2020 19:41

SidSoma wrote:
agupta wrote:
If not, I would not hang my hat on the 65kN == full fuel; IMO, unlikely that the first sorties would happen on full internal (vs. sufficient fuel for the test plan)


We have no idea that full fuel load took off with 65kN....No way to surmise that.


Well there's a way.
JayS wrote:Nice that we have HUD video. I dont understand the whole symbology but from the data points
- Total TO role was ~7.5s
- TO Roll was ~200m
- Avg acceleration on the deck was ~0.6 ish
- Thrust was ~63kN
we can estimate the TOW must have been somewhere around 10.5T. Likely the Max clean TO or thereabout.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3499
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby suryag » 18 Jan 2020 21:13

Omg !!! Mk2 or tedbf tho iska baap niklega

SidSoma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 16 Feb 2018 15:09

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby SidSoma » 18 Jan 2020 21:33

JayS wrote:
SidSoma wrote:
We have no idea that full fuel load took off with 65kN....No way to surmise that.


Well there's a way.
JayS wrote:Nice that we have HUD video. I dont understand the whole symbology but from the data points
- Total TO role was ~7.5s
- TO Roll was ~200m
- Avg acceleration on the deck was ~0.6 ish
- Thrust was ~63kN
we can estimate the TOW must have been somewhere around 10.5T. Likely the Max clean TO or thereabout.


Just wow..... May be someone out there is trying to prove a point to someone. Really exciting....So 10.5 ToW with 63kN what will it be at 83kN

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3299
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby fanne » 18 Jan 2020 21:59

At least 2 ton weapon/fuel - 1 ton fuel and 3 bvr + 3 wvr- enough for carrier cap with 1:30 hours to 2 hours cap.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3499
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby suryag » 18 Jan 2020 22:06

Time for HAL to put forth a proposal for naval Tejas mk1a will be in time for vikrant

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3070
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby nam » 19 Jan 2020 15:31

Wouldn't combat radius be a variable, rather than a fixed number?

If you want longer radius, you get it by reducing station time. Ofcourse it is always a balance, based on the adequate number of jets you can keep in air against the threat level.

If you have a high availability jet, which you can fly back again after refueling. This would allow you to increase the radius.

Add to this, if the jet is smaller, you can have more numbers on the carrier..

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5033
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Kartik » 22 Jan 2020 03:58

Va Va Voom! what a pic!

Image

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1779
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby sudeepj » 23 Jan 2020 23:15

Not sure if this was posted earlier.. A complete twitter thread describing the meaning of all the symbols on the NLA HUD.

https://twitter.com/Charles_36FS/status ... 5298242560

2/ At the start of the video while the aircraft is at rest, Waterline (denoted by W at the center) is bracketed by ">> <<" symbol. Waterline denotes the exact point at which the a/c's nose is pointing.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
3/ ">> <<" denotes the acceleration/deceleration of the a/c & is therefore known as the acceleration chevron. After take-off, accel. chevron is above the Flight Path Marker (FPM) denoting the LCA is gaining speed with a positive rate of climb.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
4/ FPM can be seen as a tiny circle in the center merging with a long horizontal line extending across the HUD. This is known as 'horizon line'. If the FPM is at the level of horizon line then the a/c is in level flight (not gaining/losing altitude).
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
5/ The box with the value 0.00 exactly above the waterline at the start of the video denotes the acceleration of the aircraft at a given level of thrust. It's value rises once the chocks are removed.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
6/ The number on the left denoted by '2.0' is the AoA or the alpha-angle. It measures in degrees the difference between the direction at which a/c's nose is pointing (denoted by waterline) & the flight path of LCA (denoted by FPM).
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
7/ Note the sharp rise in AoA once the pilot pulls up after exiting the ramp. 63.2 KN on the bottom left denotes the level of thrust generated by LCA.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
8/ The number at the top left is the Calibrated Air Speed in knots, the tape in the top center is the magnetic heading tape & the number on the top right is the barometric altitude in feet. After LCA is airborne, the box with acceleration value in the center disappears.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
9/ It is replaced with an up-arrow on the right side of waterline with a value which denotes the a/c's current rate of climb. ">> <<" denotes acceleration. Also the number just below the waterline after take-off denotes the radar altimeter value of the aircraft.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
10/ Once LCA is airborne, a 'I' shaped bracket appears on the left of waterline. This is the AoA bracket- pretty darn useful while landing & also denotes the gear is down.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
11/ G force is indicated by the number on the left between AoA & the engine thrust, appearing soon after LCA is airborne. After take-off, there are two numbers on the top right, situated above one another.
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
12/ They denote the altitude of a/c, top being the barometric altitude; bottom one being the radar altitude with 'P'. On the bottom right you have waypoint information (distance & time to next waypoint).
Charles Bronson
@Charles_36FS
·
Jan 16
13/ The pentagonal box which appears in the center of HUD after LCA is airborne possibly denotes the nearest waypoint.

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2596
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Cybaru » 23 Jan 2020 23:46

Isn't HUD symbology heavily guarded for some reason?

Raveen
BRFite
Posts: 647
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 00:51
Location: 1/2 way between the gutter and the stars
Contact:

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Raveen » 24 Jan 2020 00:34

Cybaru wrote:Isn't HUD symbology heavily guarded for some reason?

Doubt it since so many HUD videos are available in the public domain from all airforces across the world

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7304
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby disha » 25 Jan 2020 16:00

Cybaru wrote:Isn't HUD symbology heavily guarded for some reason?


This is a symbology for take-off which was released. Reason could be to show the capability to certain "dushman nations". By itself it is benign. Since they have not released it for landing and definitely not for ops and other roles.

With this, it is evident that NLCA can take off with 2.5 tonnes of stores. Not bad at all. With proper optimizations it can do 3 tonnes.

That is why I am votary of inducting 1 squadron of NLCA. Move on to NLCA Mk2 with GE-F414 and redesigned placement of landing gear to optimize on hardpoints. That will give it very decent 4-5 tonnes and a larger combat radius. If it can carry 3 Brahmos-NG and 2 CC WVR, it will be a deadly package. Any other Carrier group will have to now have a minimum stand off distance of 1000 Km from Vikramaditya.

Hence we should go for NLCA Mk2 (2 squadrons). After that we should look at TEDBF - which is a paper plane. But a good step forward before NAMCA.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8500
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jan 2020 05:52

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12211 ... 68576?s=20 ---> Yup! It is looking battle worn. They have been out in the corrosive SBTF (Shore Based Test Facility) for many months now. Should have got ready for the photo op. I am sure the program manager requested and the crew told him to get lost. I know them well. Optics is not their game.

Request ---> don't judge the book by it's cover.

^^^ Above tweet is in response to tweet below. I have edited the above tweet for easy reading.

https://twitter.com/GrumpyChanakya/stat ... 05792?s=20 ---> Why does the craft look so unclean?

Image

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Indranil » 28 Jan 2020 06:03

Huh!! Kaam kar rahe the bhai. Beauty show nahi tha!!!

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8500
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jan 2020 06:17

how anyone can complain about the uncleanliness of the aircraft versus the beauty of the photo is beyond me.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20512
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Philip » 28 Jan 2020 06:35

Yes,if the money is there one sqd. of the NLCA could complement the 29Ks in a meaningful manner.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1614
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Thakur_B » 28 Jan 2020 07:13

I have always wondered, what are those two white antenna like things right in front of cockpit ?

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7453
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Prasad » 28 Jan 2020 10:37

Indranil wrote:Huh!! Kaam kar rahe the bhai. Beauty show nahi tha!!!

Yeah but...

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5811
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Dileep » 28 Jan 2020 12:38

Thakur_B wrote:I have always wondered, what are those two white antenna like things right in front of cockpit ?

GPS Antenna.

Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2226
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Vivek K » 28 Jan 2020 13:34

It would be short sighted to not order a squadron of the NLCA. Hopefully good sense will prevail.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5033
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1: News & Discussion - 03 January 2020

Postby Kartik » 29 Jan 2020 01:58

Rakesh wrote:how anyone can complain about the uncleanliness of the aircraft versus the beauty of the photo is beyond me.


There are idiots out there who say that the airplane is rusty and not well maintained. :roll:

That is the level of some of the folks out there commenting on things they haven't the foggiest idea about. If that person visited an air base and saw some of the older jets, he'd have a heart attack. Those jets are all flying fit, but not necessarily scrubbed down and polished like a USAF Thunderbirds jet because that really isn't that important for them.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Vamsee, Vivek K and 41 guests