CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

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CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 05:16

Last Page of Previous Thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7767&start=200

Mods: Please update info below, as and when new information is available. Thank You.

=======================================

News and Discussions with regards to the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS), the Department of Military Affairs (DMA) and the structure, mandate & operations of the new joint theater commands in the Indian Armed Forces.

Chief of Defence Staff - Apointee

• General Bipin Rawat, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, YSM, SM, VSM, ADC [01 January 2020 - Present]

Additional Info ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipin_Rawat

Department of Military Affairs

The Department of Military Affairs (DMA) is planned to have three joint secretaries from the Army, Navy and the Air Force. The joint secretaries of the DMA, headed by Chief of Defence Staff General Bipin Rawat, will be of the ranks of Major General, Rear Admiral and Air Vice Marshal. To date, 13 deputy secretaries, 25 undersecretaries and 22 section officers - from the Indian Administrative Service - have been transferred to the DMA.

Additional Info ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departmen ... ry_Affairs

Joint Theatre Commands

• Possible future command structure. Not finalized.

Image

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Articles on CDS and Military Reform

CDS – A shining future for Indian defence or business as usual? [Part 1]
https://www.yuddhaneeti.com/post/cds-a- ... ual-part-1
By Akshay Kapoor, 26 January 2020

CDS – A shining future for Indian defence or business as usual? [Part 2]
https://www.yuddhaneeti.com/post/cds-a- ... ual-part-2
By Akshay Kapoor, 04 February 2020

The significance of the post of CDS lies in its potential for re-imagining national security
https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... y-6208780/
By Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd), 10 January 2020

India's CDS: Giving Effect to Higher Defence Reform
https://www.delhipolicygroup.org/public ... eform.html
By Lieutenant General Anil Ahuja (Retd) and Brigadier Arun Sahgal (Retd), 02 January 2020

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Multimedia

CDS Role and Responsibilities have Exceeded Expectations



Views on CDS by Major Gaurav Arya (Retd)


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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 05:23

Theatre commands may take 3 years: Army Chief
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... juFdO.html
21 Feb 2020

India may have 5 theatre commands along borders with Pakistan, China: CDS
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 183766.cms
18 Feb 2020

CDS proposes to merge Eastern & Western Naval Command as Peninsular Command to protect South India
https://www.deccanherald.com/national/c ... 05461.html
17 Feb 2020

India To Get Military Commands In 3 Years, Biggest Restructuring Ever
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-t ... er-2174788
04 Feb 2020

India will work out its own model of theatre commands: CDS Rawat
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 062932.cms
02 Jan 2020

CDS' olive green uniform to represent 3 services
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst
31 Dec 2019

Government Amends Rules, Service Chiefs to Now Retire at 65 if Chosen as CDS
https://www.india.com/news/government-a ... s-3893242/
29 Dec 2019

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 05:32

CDS General Rawat doing the right things first
https://bharatkarnad.com/2020/02/18/cds ... ngs-first/
18 Feb 2020

Promotions, posting of senior defence officers now come under CDS
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/p ... 2020-02-14
14 Feb 2020

Bipin Rawat headed-DMA will give preference to domain experts like DRDO and ISRO
https://theprint.in/india/bipin-rawat-h ... ro/365781/
14 Feb 2020

MoD approves Rules of Business for the new CDS, General Bipin Rawat
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... t/1820083/
11 Jan 2020

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 05:57

Okay, I went through all the pages of the previous thread and pulled out all the relevant articles and videos. I have posted them above. Now continue discussions in this thread. The old thread has been archived and a link has been provided at the very top of the first post.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 06:06

Along with the many joint theatre commands under consideration, may this mango abdul suggest that the CDS look into establishing a joint Air Training Command? All future airmen (fighter stream, transport stream, helicopter stream) in the IAF, IN and IA should graduate from this one institution.

Basic flight training/laws are the same, whether you are in Army, Navy or Air Force. I do not know about transport and helicopter streams, but I believe they also learn to fly on a basic trainer aircraft before moving on to their respective streams.

Pool all the instructors, training platforms, associated equipment together - where possible. Cost Savings? Not sure if this would work, just something that I thought of. Comments welcome, but please do not shoot me :)

Example ---> Fighter Stream
HTT-40 (Basic Trainer) ---> HJT-36 (Intermediate Trainer) ---> Hawk AJT (Advanced Trainer) ---> Tejas SPORT (Supersonic Trainer) ---> Frontline Fighter Squadron (Su-30MKI in the IAF or MiG-29K in the IN).

*At the last stage (frontline fighter squadron), pilots from their respective service of choice learn the skills required to operate the Su-30MKI of the Indian Air Force or the MiG-29K of the Indian Navy at their parent squadron. But prior to the last stage, pilots should graduate from one stage to the next under one institution like an Air Training Command.

Example ---> Transport Stream
Do 228 (operated by the Indian Air Force, Indian Navy and the Indian Coast Guard)

Example ---> Helicopter Stream
HAL Dhruv (same as the transport stream example and also the Indian Army)

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2020 06:35

Something I wrote for Bharat Rakshak Monitor in Nov-December 1999

What Next? Way to a Credible Deterrent

....
Joint operations

It is essential to integrate the services and the ministry of defense. The Defense Secretary should be in charge of administration and budgetary process etc. In other words a purely administrative capacity. The Chief of Defense staff should be selected and appointed on basis of merit and should be the point of contact for passing on the strike authorization to the strike force command. It is also necessary to ensure that the services operate in a joint manner.

In the Northern and eastern sectors, theater commands combining Army and Air Force units should be set-up. The theater commander can be from Army or Air Force. The headquarters need not be in the same location. This way there is dispersion of command assets. In the southwest and southern sectors there could be tri-service theater commands led by competent officers from any of the services. As a start, a joint theater warfare/command school should be setup in the National Defense College, by combining the existing elements from the different service establishments, which are now scattered all over in isolation.



Please read the article for full knowledge!!!

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 23 Feb 2020 00:29

One way to kill flow of a thread is to open a new one just because an infrequent contributor objects to it.
And even the person who objected to previous thread has not posted here.
SAD.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby dinesha » 17 May 2020 13:16

Northern theatre command with China should have Navy element: Gen. Rawat
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 601393.ece

Theatre commands will mainly be between the Army and the IAF. While it is the northern border there should also be a small Navy element,” Gen. Rawat told a small group of journalists during the week. Referring to the Navy’s fighter jets, he said, “Can we not bring some of the naval assets to the land borders?”
Saying the naval fighter jets can operate in deserts and the IAF jets there can move to the other borders, Gen. Rawat said, “There is not much of difference between sea flying and desert flying.”

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 May 2020 17:43

Brilliant article by Adminullah Mihir, gives a lot of food for thought.
Don’t Knock General Bipin Rawat’s ‘Land Centrism’; It Is Exactly What India Needs
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/dont-kn ... ndia-needs

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Larry Walker » 21 May 2020 18:17

Article advocates sea denial, but we also need to build sea control power so that we can protect and keep our SLOC's open. Submarines will not be enough to guard against a Carrier group and if we solely depend upon land-based fighters to protect our vast coastlines then by the time the enemy flotilla is within range, they are close enough to our coastline for a beach assualt. India will then have to divert the army to guard possible beach heads. In army terms it is like pitching IBG's against a strike corps or another example would be BMP's and Namica's trying to face down Arjun formations. Surely you will inflict damage but if enemy achives their objectives then these damages don't count much. We still keep debating that even though IAF lost higher numbers against PAF they met their strategic objectives. Same applies for argument between Carrier groups and submarines.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 May 2020 18:30

One of key charters for the post of CDS is resource optimization.Spending so much on another new AC vs multiple good Submarines (SSK/SSN) is for me a no brainer.
Even the MRFA thing is tough for me to understand.
This also where I would have liked to see this first among equals thing sorted. Too much confusion from the services.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 May 2020 18:31

CDS' announcements on carrier cancellation and MMRCA contest are exactly what the Navy and Air Force feared with a CDS from an Army background. Prior to CDS, the Chiefs were having a field day with the MoD Babus.

Want 126 MMRCAs? Let us run a contest, go through the hoops, waste decades, call Tejas a three legged cheetah, categorically state that there is no Plan B, etc. Cost is just a minor quibble after all. When you can get ready made phoren fighters to make up the bulk of the fleet, why waste $20 billion on the Tejas program?

Want a 65,000 ton, nuclear powered and EMALS equipped aircraft carrier with 57 carrier borne strike fighters? Let us announce it on Navy Day and definitively state that budgetary allocations have been made for this. $15 billion for 57 "phoren" carrier borne strike fighters is an excellent investment for India's security.

What the CDS is saying is not to cancel aircraft carriers entirely, but rather is a 65,000 ton aircraft carrier with nuclear power and EMALS necessary? Would not a ski jump and a size similar to the Vikrant not be good enough? Same with the MMRCA - does the IAF really need 114 "phoren" combat aircraft? Can the Tejas not make up the bulk of the fleet and a smaller number of MMRCA acquired (36 - 54 aircraft perhaps?). Does India need to be a global expeditionary force like the US? Is being a regional power and guarding the nation's borders not good enough? That is what the CDS is stating.

CDS came, then COVID-19 came and brochuritis went out the window. The Air and Navy Chiefs are putting up a brave face, but even they know now ---> there is no money for these white elephant projects.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 21 May 2020 18:40

And the OEMs (eagerly supported by BRF's "import pasand" crowd) who push their uber-expensive wares for these white elephant projects are damn frustrated. It is bad enough they have to deal with the archaic and famed Indian Babudom. Now the CDS has added a new headache for them. Get ready for personal defamation of the CDS. That is the next step. India's enemies are within India onlee.

I hope folks now realize why India never had a CDS (until now). How can India's politicians make money otherwise? Love the man or hate the man, but what Prime Minister Modi has done for India - via CDS appointment - is a blessing for swadeshi equipment.

https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 85632?s=20 ----> You can have a problem with the Right, you can be a bit disappointed in Modi (for whatever your reasons) but remember who he is keeping at bay, remember the alternative. It’s not a case of 2 steps foreword, one step back. CONgress would just take India 10 steps back.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Mihir » 22 May 2020 07:10

MeshaVishwas wrote:Brilliant article by Adminullah Mihir, gives a lot of food for thought.
Don’t Knock General Bipin Rawat’s ‘Land Centrism’; It Is Exactly What India Needs
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/dont-kn ... ndia-needs

Thank you saar! But I️ is not an adminullah :oops:

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby nachiket » 22 May 2020 23:31

Rakesh wrote:CDS' announcements on carrier cancellation and MMRCA contest are exactly what the Navy and Air Force feared with a CDS from an Army background. Prior to CDS, the Chiefs were having a field day with the MoD Babus.

Want 126 MMRCAs? Let us run a contest, go through the hoops, waste decades, call Tejas a three legged cheetah, categorically state that there is no Plan B, etc. Cost is just a minor quibble after all. When you can get ready made phoren fighters to make up the bulk of the fleet, why waste $20 billion on the Tejas program?

The IAF only wanted 126 M2k's. The decade long multi-vendor contest with no result was foisted on them by the government and babucracy.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby MeshaVishwas » 26 May 2020 12:54


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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 10 Jun 2020 21:10

AIR DEFENCE COMMAND – NEED FOR A RETHINK
https://salute.co.in/air-defence-comman ... a-rethink/
10 June 2020

By Air Marshal SS Soman (retd), PVSM AVSM VM

Image

The appointment of the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) and creation of the Department of Military Affairs (DMA) have been positive and welcome steps taken by the government, to bring in comprehensive defence reforms. While the CDS is expected to promote jointness and synergy among the Armed Forces, the formation of the DMA, as a department of the MoD, would address various issues that have affected the civil-military relations in India.

The two transformational steps give an opportunity for the Armed Forces to significantly enhance their integrated military capability and achieve savings through optimal utilisation of resources. As the focus is towards enhancing jointness by integrating the fundamental warfighting structures i.e. the Commands of the three services, it is imperative that all decisions should be well considered, and implemented after detailed studies, discussion, and debate.

ISSUE

In the above backdrop, the announcement by the CDS to establish a Joint Air Defence Command (JADC), soon after assuming office, took many by surprise. It was supposedly the first step towards the establishment of joint/theatre commands. It was evident that the announcement pre-dated any formal discussion on the subject.

A committee headed by the Vice Chief of Air Staff (VCAS) was thereafter set up to work out the roadmap towards setting up a joint Air Defence Command, indicating that its formation was a fait accompli. Under these circumstances, two critical questions that remain unanswered are, what were the issues, if any, that prompted the need to restructure the present Air Defence (AD) organisation and how the Air Defence Command would make the Air Defence organisation more efficient.

Absence of logical answers to the two questions would create a perception that the decision is either flawed or is a step in the eventual establishment of joint/theatre Commands, wherein the IAF would be excluded from heading a joint/theatre Command and be reduced to a functional Command, like the Air Defence Command.

The cavalier manner, in which the establishment of the Air Defence Command was described as a low hanging fruit, and then directing a joint committee to work out, how to make it happen, supports both the perceptions. The decision to form the Air Defence Command has grave operational risks and its consequences could lead to an irreversible fracture of the very integrity of air operations of the IAF. Since the subject is esoteric, a brief explanation of the concept of Air Defence and the Air Defence organisation would be in order before the merits of an Air Defence Command can be discussed.

CONCEPT OF AIR DEFENCE (AD)

The air defence philosophy of the IAF has undergone a huge change from a point, to limited, to a layered area defence, which envisages engagements even before the enemy aircraft enter our airspace during hostilities. This has been enabled by technology through enhanced ranges of the sensors, communications and weapon systems. Hence, AD is now a subset of Defensive Counter Air (DCA), which is a much broader AD term. Joint AD is essentially an integration concept and not a command, to net all the AD-related ground to air sensors, communications, and weapon systems into the overall AD to permit effective operations for all users of the tactical airspace and avoid fratricide.

As with all defensive operations, air defence is essentially reactive in nature. It requires constant vigilance and quick reactions from the machinery. AD requires the fulfilment of four functions, namely detection, identification, interception and destruction of any platform or weapon, manned or unmanned that enters sovereign airspace and which is identified, as a threat or hostile. Within the sovereign airspace of the country, AD is the primary role of the IAF.

While for the Airforce and Navy, AD is an integral function under operations, the same is a support function towards operations for the Army. The Army and the Navy contribute to ‘detection’ by sharing their radar data, as also ‘destruction’ through their own organic surface-to-air weapons as they defend themselves against an air attack. However, identification, including AD authorisation of every single civil or military flight originating in or transiting through Indian airspace, and interception are the sole responsibilities of the IAF.

AIR DEFENCE (AD) SYSTEM

To fulfil the AD functions there is a need for a ground and airborne sensors, a networked command and control system, fighter aircraft/helicopters for the interception, and aircraft and surface-to-air weapons for destruction. The system needs to be fast reacting so that in the limited time available, it can assess the threat, and respond with the appropriate response to the correct degree.

Issues of AD at Air HQ are dealt with by the AD directorate under the Operations branch led by the VCAS. The AD directorate is headed by the Assistant Chief of Air Staff (ACAS AD). The AD directorate deals with AD policy issues, training, organisation, resourcing and inter-service AD aspects. The operational commands of the IAF, plan and control air defence operations, from the Air Defence Control Centres (ADCCs) through their respective AD Commanders, who are delegated the authority by the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chiefs (AOC-in-Cs) functioning as the regional Air Space Authorities (ASAs). At the field level, the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) nodes conduct the operations.

The AD system of the Army is integrated through Joint Air Defence Centres (JADCs). The entire AD system is digitally networked and rides on the Air Force Net (AFNET) and Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCSs). The existing net-centric AD structure provides the ability to monitor the fused picture of the air situation in the area of interest at various levels for enhanced situational awareness, and optimal application of the centrally planned resources in an effective and decentralised manner.

NEED TO RESTRUCTURE

So, is there a need to restructure the AD organisation, and is a pan-India ADC a good idea? Not at all. It could be substantiated through operational, organisational, empirical, and doctrinal standpoints.

OPERATIONAL

One of the reasons for the erosion of our overall military capability has been the duplication of roles and functions within the three services, leading to suboptimal effort due to overlaps on one hand and voids on the other. As if that were not enough, the establishment of an ADC would now further functionally split the primary functions of the IAF into offensive and defensive roles, with a mistaken belief that the offensive assets assigned to the joint/theatre commands, as and when formed, could be employed solely in a segregated manner towards close support roles. It needs to be understood that the air assets cannot be divided into defensive and offensive roles.

Many of the air defence assets, such as fighters, AWACS, FRA are also needed for the conduct of offensive operations. Just like a submarine may be tasked for defensive deployment off own coast, or an offensive mid-ocean or off enemy coast deployment, and a corps tasked with defensive operations may well be re-tasked for a limited offensive role, so also with aircraft. Except that in case of aircraft, this can take place ‘on-the-fly’ in a matter of seconds with just a couple of orders passed over the radio.

Aircraft (Fighters, AWACS, FRA) returning from a strike mission inside enemy territory may well be re-tasked to take on an air defence role on return, subject to fuel and weapons. If anything, this would be complicated even further by induction of systems like the S-400, which, with greatly extended ranges, can conduct operations against enemy planes flying well within his territory in support of own offensive operations.

For both offensive and defensive air operations to be re-balanced on a continuous and dynamic basis as per the developing situation, there is a requirement for both to be under one Commander. Placing any of these under a Commander exclusively for defensive operations would lead to sub-optimal utilisation. Either they would be underutilised, and hence reduce the weight of attack for offensive operations, or they would be insufficient, and hence ineffective in thwarting enemy attacks.

This flexibility further assumes importance due to the present reduced strength of the air assets and the need to ensure their optimal employment. In the present structure, it is the AOC-in-C of the Air Command who controls both the defensive and offensive operations. As joint/theatre Commands take shape, the control would be exercised by the joint/theatre Commander through the Air Component Commanders.

AD is thus, a fundamental warfighting function of the air force much like defensive land operations or defensive sea operations are to land and naval forces. And just like placing a defensive corps, holding corps and the strike corps under different GOC-in-C’s is unthinkable, so also is divorcing the entire function of AD from offensive air operations and replacing them with a different commander.

Another important operational aspect to be borne in mind is that future wars would be in the form of skirmishes that would be short, intense, and swift. A formidable AD that can cause unacceptable damage to an adversary air riposte, would not only help in controlling the escalation but also serve as a potent deterrent. This is only possible when air operations are unified under a single regional Commander. Operationally, therefore, there is a strong case not to form an ADC as it would severely degrade the conduct of full-spectrum, fast-moving and effective air operations.

ORGANISATIONAL

Organisationally, two agencies of the IAF enable AD operations. Air Headquarters provides the direction and facilitation, and Command Headquarters ensure employment and execution. Additionally, the AD operations are intricately intertwined with airspace management functions, not only with the Air Traffic Services of the IAF but also with civil aviation. A regional air command gives a single point control, and hence civil-military coordination becomes smooth.

Splitting air defence under JADC and air traffic service under the regional command would create huge difficulties in coordination by splitting the military authority. This would affect both civil and military flying operations and test the concept of Flexi- Use of Airspace (FUA) something sorely needed by the ailing airline sector. Near misses between civil and military aircraft do occur, but rarely. With another organisational wall of the Air Defence Command to penetrate, the chances of these occurring will only increase.

The command and control of the entire air operations are exercised through CHOCs and the IACCS nodes by the operational commands. This precludes the establishment of the ADC. At best, the ADC commander, even if Air Defence Command is formed and headed by the IAF, would only serve as an empowered ACAS AD at Air HQ with no role during the war. To force-fit, an operational role on the Air Defence Command would be counterproductive. Similarly, in any future joint/integrated command, adhering to the principle of unity of command, the regional offensive and defensive assets of the IAF would always be under the control of an Air Force Component Commander who would be subordinate to the Integrated Commander.

Organisationally, therefore, there is no pressing reason to form an Air Defence Command extending through geographical commands or theatres. If anything, the existing organisation would be disrupted, command and control lines crisscrossed, organisational bottlenecks created, and the flow of information and decision making slowed down as assets change hands, and control passes from one commander to another. In air defence, where speed is of the essence and every second matter, this will be disastrous.

EMPERICAL

The existing AD setup has been working efficiently and has stood the test of time. The high states of AD alert are reflected in the downing of the Pakistan Navy Atlantique in 1999, despite the brief violation. The fact that the existing setup was able to thwart the PAF attacks during Op Swift Retort in February 2019 speaks well for the system. All the eleven bombs dropped by the PAF aircraft missed their targets as their attack profiles were effectively disrupted by the IAF aircraft.

Admittedly, there was the unfortunate fratricide of a Mi-17 helicopter due to noncompliance of standard operating procedures. The incident, however, had no bearing on the AD organisation. Adding another organisational ‘wall’ by imposing an Air Defence Command will result in further slowing the flow of information and increasing chances of recurrence. Conversely, PAF despite having an AD command was unable to stop IAF aircraft from conducting a successful attack at Balakot. Nor was PAF in a position to stop the Abbottabad raid and other numerous strikes conducted by the Western powers in the FATA region.

DOCTRINAL

Doctrine sometimes seems unnecessarily academic and inconveniently theoretical to an outsider but merits careful evaluation before fundamental changes are made. Establishing a pan-India Air Defence Command cutting across operational theatre boundaries represents the army doctrinal stand of AD as a support function, on the lines of training or logistics. However, as we have seen, AD requires unity of command.

The inherent versatility of air assets also imposes indivisibility as a cardinal tenet of airpower planning. An Air Defence Command on the face of it seems to promote the first tenet, but in reality, works against both, fragmenting needlessly, the most offensive component of military power and diminishing its potency as well as speed of reaction. It would be like depriving a warrior of his shield and asking him to duel with only a sword. Earmarking of AD assets separately also depicts a defensive mindset and is inherently not in tune with the offensive nature of airpower.

SUGGESTIONS

A case for the negation of the Air Defence Command does not mean that there are no inter-service issues in the extant AD setup. These issues, however, are not insurmountable and relate to interoperability, integration, and commonality of training. The interoperability issues pertaining to the handshakes between the communication protocols of the AD systems of the three services. These need to be overcome technologically. As regards integration, a reconciliation is required between the net-enabled and tiered area defence philosophy of the IAF and the legacy point defence concepts of the Army.

This is a mindset issue and relates more to a propensity to own and autonomously operate service specific systems. The commonality of training for similar weapon systems could be ensured by merging the training institutions. To resolve the issues, mechanisms are available in the form of Joint Staff Study Groups (JSSGs) set up for Control and Reporting (C&R) and Ground-Based Air Defence Weapon Systems (GBADWS). There is a need to empower these JSSGs to address the contentious issues and bring in greater

integration. Also, the joint AD structures in the Commands need to be strengthened under the ASA to promote greater synergy. The unity of command at the joint/theatre Command level, as and when established, would also give the necessary fillip to efforts to iron out interoperability and information sharing issues between the services.

CONCLUSION

To conclude, the establishment of the Air Defence Command is a misstep as it is disruptive. It is a force fit solution on a problem that is yet to be identified. Formation of the Air Defence Command would not only go against the operational, organisational and doctrinal wisdom but would also needlessly add an organisation with its attendant costs and going against one of the key objectives of integration, namely, savings. To make the system work, would be an overly complex activity and affect command and control linkages. A major portion of the effort would go in making the new structure work rather than enhancing the operational efficiency of the existing system.

Additionally, it could lead to jockeying for senior positions, turf protection and cadre preservation among the services. Whatever benefits that would accrue from common training and logistics from Air Defence Command could also be achieved in the present setup, with a little more coordination, which in any case is now far easier with the office of CDS having been established, and joint/theatre commands on the way. The establishment of the Air Defence Command would result in an additional command, which is functionally not different from the present AD directorate and would have no operational role in the war. Hence, there is a need to have a rethink on the decision for the establishment of the Air Defence Command.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2020 11:39

Rakesh, His article needs analysis as its first rebuttal of a CDS decision. Please post full text. Thanks.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jun 2020 20:46

Ramana-ji, I have edited the post above. Thanks.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 03 Jul 2020 18:07

You can drag & drop the image in a new window.

https://twitter.com/manaman_chhina/stat ... 16672?s=20 ---> Information sought by me on the new badges of rank of the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS), Gen Bipin Rawat, has been denied saying that it would affect the sovereignty and integrity of India.

Image

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Vips » 28 Aug 2020 05:18

India speeds up work on setting up Air Defence Command.

India has accelerated work on setting up an Air Defence Command to enhance military synergy and optimally utilise the resources of the armed forces, and it is likely to come up in October, people familiar with the developments said on Thursday.

Air defence refers to protecting the military’s assets from aerial threats such as the enemy’s fighter planes and missiles and the new Command --- likely to be headquartered in Allahabad --- will control the air defence resources of all the three services. It will be headed by a three-star air marshal, the officials said.

After taking over as the country’s first chief of defence staff on December 31, 2019, General Bipin Rawat had asked top officials of Headquarters Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) to prepare a proposal to create an Air Defence Command as part of the military’s theaterisation plans.

Theaterisation refers to placing specific units of the army, the navy and the air force under a theatre commander. Such commands come under the operational control of an officer from any of the three services, depending on the function assigned to that command.

The government expects Rawat to bring about jointness among the three services by 2022. One of the key objectives behind jointness, or jointmanship, is the setting up of theatre commands for the best use of military resources to fight future battles.

The air defence systems in the Indian arsenal include the indigenous Akash, the Israeli SpyDer, and Soviet-origin Pechora, OSA-AK and the shoulder-fired Igla. India is also pushing Russia to speed up the delivery of S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems following border tensions with China in eastern Ladakh.

India is looking at creating a distinct theatre command for Jammu & Kashmir, and integrating the western and eastern naval commands to create a Peninsular Command, as previously reported by Hindustan Times.

India could have up to five theatres to address the country’s security requirements, and the new structures could start rolling out in two years.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby k prasad » 29 Aug 2020 00:31

dinesha wrote:Northern theatre command with China should have Navy element: Gen. Rawat
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 601393.ece

Theatre commands will mainly be between the Army and the IAF. While it is the northern border there should also be a small Navy element,” Gen. Rawat told a small group of journalists during the week. Referring to the Navy’s fighter jets, he said, “Can we not bring some of the naval assets to the land borders?”
Saying the naval fighter jets can operate in deserts and the IAF jets there can move to the other borders, Gen. Rawat said, “There is not much of difference between sea flying and desert flying.”


This will require some not-insignificant training, tactics and logistical questions to be hashed out:

1. Who flies the aircraft? Will it be IAF pilots type certified on those naval aircraft or IN pilots?

2. If it is IN pilots flying these combat missions, they will need training and tactical instructions for flying in those terrains, and with the specific ROEs... Flying over sea in a relatively clear area is different from flying combat sorties over mountainous terrains, or with a sharply changing border, in concert with many other elements.

3. Joint training of IAF and IN pilots for joint ops, so there is interoperability during combined ops.

4. Logistics challenges - should air bases inland have ready spares and maintenance infra for these aircraft types, or do they get moved in along with the aircraft when the transfer happens?

5. Whose budget does the expense of spares, maintenance, overhaul, or replacement come out of if IN aircraft are tasked to northern operations under the IAF aegis? Might seem like a nitpick, but replacing a 1000 crore aircraft is not a small hit on a budget.

6. Which IN aircraft get pulled north? Will it be deployed aircraft from the ANC command, or from Southern Naval command or from the carrier air wings? What gets priority if we're fighting both at land and at sea? Land ops or naval Air ops?

To be fair, many of these issues could be already redundant, or easily fixed with platform commonality, etc. But training and joint ops considerations are still important.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 29 Aug 2020 05:22

You are thinking like a bean counter.
It will be Navy deployment in the mountain theater.
Navy planes, Navy pilots, Navy budget for maintenance. It's not ehsan. It's shouldering the responsibility.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby k prasad » 29 Aug 2020 09:18

That it might be, Ramana saar, but the nitty grottoes need to be worked out too. My only real bean counter point is probably point #5. The rest are combat efficiency questions. How do we ensure that our pilots and machines are at peak efficiency and capability when conducting operations in terrains, formations and tactics that they might not be currently familiar with. Nowhere am I saying it's not a good idea, nor that it can't be done. Just that these are questions to be figured out if it is to be done right.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby pandyan » 30 Aug 2020 02:00

saar - when the new broke out, it was mentioned that navy pilots regularly train with IAF and they are infact familiar with the area in the NE.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 09 Oct 2020 05:29

So whats next about Theatre commands for CDS to implement?

In 1999 I wrote:

Joint operations

It is essential to integrate the services and the ministry of defense. The Defense Secretary should be in charge of administration and budgetary process etc. In other words a purely administrative capacity. The Chief of Defense staff should be selected and appointed on basis of merit and should be the point of contact for passing on the strike authorization to the strike force command. It is also necessary to ensure that the services operate in a joint manner.

In the Northern and eastern sectors, theater commands combining Army and Air Force units should be set-up. The theater commander can be from Army or Air Force. The headquarters need not be in the same location. This way there is dispersion of command assets. In the southwest and southern sectors there could be tri-service theater commands led by competent officers from any of the services. As a start, a joint theater warfare/command school should be setup in the National Defense College, by combining the existing elements from the different service establishments, which are now scattered all over in isolation.



http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/archives/ ... amana.html

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby chetak » 09 Oct 2020 06:42

k prasad wrote:
dinesha wrote:Northern theatre command with China should have Navy element: Gen. Rawat
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 601393.ece



This will require some not-insignificant training, tactics and logistical questions to be hashed out:

1. Who flies the aircraft? Will it be IAF pilots type certified on those naval aircraft or IN pilots?

2. If it is IN pilots flying these combat missions, they will need training and tactical instructions for flying in those terrains, and with the specific ROEs... Flying over sea in a relatively clear area is different from flying combat sorties over mountainous terrains, or with a sharply changing border, in concert with many other elements.

3. Joint training of IAF and IN pilots for joint ops, so there is interoperability during combined ops.

4. Logistics challenges - should air bases inland have ready spares and maintenance infra for these aircraft types, or do they get moved in along with the aircraft when the transfer happens?

5. Whose budget does the expense of spares, maintenance, overhaul, or replacement come out of if IN aircraft are tasked to northern operations under the IAF aegis? Might seem like a nitpick, but replacing a 1000 crore aircraft is not a small hit on a budget.

6. Which IN aircraft get pulled north? Will it be deployed aircraft from the ANC command, or from Southern Naval command or from the carrier air wings? What gets priority if we're fighting both at land and at sea? Land ops or naval Air ops?

To be fair, many of these issues could be already redundant, or easily fixed with platform commonality, etc. But training and joint ops considerations are still important.


the IN was active over land in the '65 and the '71 wars including during kargil where they were operating at the cashmere and the rajasthan borders. Not many seem to be aware of this

the IN flew it's own aircraft with it's own crews as it will do in any ops situations.

IN aircraft usually have GPS and inertial nav systems fitted.

they didn't have any problems then so why would they have any problems now.

operating over the sea at altitudes that the IN crews usually fly is no joke and it's certainly not as "easy" as you seem to imagine it would be.

the IN's MATCH role chetaks are fitted with autopilot and military grade communication systems which is not used by the other services.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby k prasad » 09 Oct 2020 09:17

chetak wrote:the IN was active over land in the '65 and the '71 wars including during kargil where they were operating at the cashmere and the rajasthan borders. Not many seem to be aware of this

the IN flew it's own aircraft with it's own crews as it will do in any ops situations.

IN aircraft usually have GPS and inertial nav systems fitted.

they didn't have any problems then so why would they have any problems now.

operating over the sea at altitudes that the IN crews usually fly is no joke and it's certainly not as "easy" as you seem to imagine it would be.

the IN's MATCH role chetaks are fitted with autopilot and military grade communication systems which is not used by the other services.


Chetakji, as a navy brat, I know quite well that sea operations are anything but easy (and I never said that it was, btw)... Just that it's a different paradigm from land and mountain operations. Especially in high altitudes, or nape of the earth flying over undulating terrain in fixed wing aircraft.

As for problems then vs now, it's not about 'problems' per se. It's about evolving doctrines of air operations and combined ground-air
operations, and how these tactics have evolved since 65 and 71, and whether the two services have enough interoperability training and operational effectiveness. It's not just WHETHER IN Aviators can be in these operations. It's also about how effective they can be in those situations, and what it'll take to maximize effectiveness.

Like I said, it's not whether or not it can be done. We know it can. It's more a question of what do we need to do the make this happen with maximum effectiveness.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby chetak » 09 Oct 2020 09:36

k prasad wrote:
chetak wrote:the IN was active over land in the '65 and the '71 wars including during kargil where they were operating at the cashmere and the rajasthan borders. Not many seem to be aware of this

the IN flew it's own aircraft with it's own crews as it will do in any ops situations.

IN aircraft usually have GPS and inertial nav systems fitted.

they didn't have any problems then so why would they have any problems now.

operating over the sea at altitudes that the IN crews usually fly is no joke and it's certainly not as "easy" as you seem to imagine it would be.

the IN's MATCH role chetaks are fitted with autopilot and military grade communication systems which is not used by the other services.


Chetakji, as a navy brat, I know quite well that sea operations are anything but easy (and I never said that it was, btw)... Just that it's a different paradigm from land and mountain operations. Especially in high altitudes, or nape of the earth flying over undulating terrain in fixed wing aircraft.

As for problems then vs now, it's not about 'problems' per se. It's about evolving doctrines of air operations and combined ground-air
operations, and how these tactics have evolved since 65 and 71, and whether the two services have enough interoperability training and operational effectiveness. It's not just WHETHER IN Aviators can be in these operations. It's also about how effective they can be in those situations, and what it'll take to maximize effectiveness.

Like I said, it's not whether or not it can be done. We know it can. It's more a question of what do we need to do the make this happen with maximum effectiveness.


IN aircraft taking part in such operations will be doing so in a standoff mode well within Indian boundaries.

Except when IN fighters are deployed, if at all, none of the other IN platforms will be doing any nape of the earth work.

They will not be tasked for such work. Their mission profiles are different.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby hnair » 28 Oct 2020 02:37

Finally some clarity on the theaters and their demarcation. Also happy that air defense is not being left to each services, the post-Balakote lessons seems to be learned well.

Cross posting :

Vips wrote:India to get 5 military theatre commands, one each for China and Pak.

The Indian military is expected to be reorganised under five theatre commands by 2022 with defined areas of operation and a seamless command structure for synchronised operations.

With the department of military affairs soon to have additional and joint secretaries after Cabinet clearance, the task of reorganisation of the three services under theatre commands has begun with a China specific Northern Command and Pakistan specific Western command under serious consideration. India’s Chief of Defence Staff Gen Bipin Rawat has been given the mandate by the Narendra Modi government to create theatre commands much like the ones China and the US currently have.

According to military and national security planners, the northern command’s remit will begin from the Karakoram Pass in Ladakh and continue up to the last outpost Kibithu in Arunachal Pradesh , with the military mandate of guarding the 3,488 kilometre of Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China. The HQ of this command could be Lucknow.

The western command’s remit will be from Indira Col on Saltoro Ridge in the Siachen Glacier region to the tip of Gujarat with its HQ likely in Jaipur.

The third theatre command will be the Peninsular Command; the fourth, a full-fledged air defence command; and the fifth, a maritime command. The likely HQ of the Peninsular command could be Thiruvananthapuram. The air defence command will not only spearhead the country’s aerial attack but also be responsible for defending Indian airspace through multi-role fighters with all anti aircraft missiles under its control.

Currently, the Indian Army, Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy all defend Indian airspace on separate communication frequencies and without synergy. This is despite the fact that all Indian Army Corps Headquarters are located next to an air base as a result of which there is duplication of effort and wasteful expenditure.

The planners said there is option of extending this to an aerospace command as per future requirements.

India will have only one maritime command with a possibility that the tri-service Andaman and Nicobar Islands Command being merged with this . The task of the maritime command will be to protect the Indian Ocean and India’s Island territories as well as keep the sea lanes free and open from any outside pressure.

Although in a nascent stage, the Indian Navy’s maritime assets will be placed in Karwar on the western seaboard, Vishakhapatnam on the eastern seaboard and in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. With China emerging as a threat, the possible headquarters of the Maritime Command could be Andhra Pradesh’s new capital with Port Blair emerging as another major base for naval operations.

Theaterisation refers to placing units of the army, air force, and navy under a single Theatre Commander. The operational command of such combinations will be under one officer drawn from one of the three services.

“Theaterisation of commands is imperative to integrate resources of the three services for maximising impact in any war. The geographical expanse of theatres in India demands unified commands for strategic decisions and critical outcomes that will be possible in concentrated employment of resources,” said former amry vice chief Lt Gen AS Lamba (retd).

According to senior officials familiar with the matter, all five commands will be headed by Lt General or equivalent rank commanders, who will be the first among equals with the heads of the present commands reporting to them. The task of the Chief of Staff of Army, Chief of Air Staff and Chief of Naval Staff will not be operational but involve mobilising resources to the theatre commanders as it is in the US military.

If the Andamans and Nicobar Command goes under the maritime command as is being visualised, then the CDS will have the Armed Forces Special Operation Division, Cyber Command and the Defence Intelligence Agency under him with manpower drawn from all the three services.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 28 Oct 2020 03:27

How IAF will manage in a theater command is going to be a challenge. They are too bereft of airframes to permanently earmark resources for each theater.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby hnair » 28 Oct 2020 07:01

I think that is the very idea behind theatre commands, to pull limited resources from other commands on need basis. What might take a lot of liaison and paperwork might be quicker. Again wishlisting!

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Oct 2020 07:22

Karan M wrote:How IAF will manage in a theater command is going to be a challenge. They are too bereft of airframes to permanently earmark resources for each theater.


Karan do you know if there is a specific set of problems that these theatre commands are trying to solve down to an operational level.

Have we stress-tested these concepts as well as the IBGs down to the tactical level to truly know what issues come up when the proverbial hits the ceiling.

Also, I am not confident the current CDS is doing the right thing by going for these big-ticket items so soon. If things don't go to plan then the office of the CDS will become another millstone around the forces neck. As I see it these theater command concepts are being driven by the Army...

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby nits » 28 Oct 2020 07:32

Gurus - understand the concept and thought behind, North ( china), West (Pak), air defence command and maritime command but what will be the ambit and responsibilities of Peninsular Command

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby hnair » 28 Oct 2020 09:44

Still need clarity in open source, but the Peninsula command seem to be the Indian equivalent of American Northern Command, which combines National Guard, Air National Guard, training establishments as well as Homeland defense departments including coastguard, border control etc. And it is supposed to deal with coastal defense and invasion of American mainlands plus closer island territories

https://www.northcom.mil/


But unlike US, the Indian peninsular heartland is not fully immune to hostile forces inserting lethal capabilities. So will be lot more action oriented during peace and war.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Yagnasri » 28 Oct 2020 12:08

It is possible that it may have the entire coastal defence, naval base security, lateral waters, SL related security with it.

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Adrija » 28 Oct 2020 12:51

Peninsular Command would (hopefully) be tasked with ensuring that we don't ever become vulnerable to an Iraq style attack from IOR

So ensuring that SL, Myanmar, DG, Maldives, Seychelles, East Africa etc etc do not ever host bases of potentially hostile powers

Enuf said... don't want to make it any more explicit

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby jaysimha » 14 Dec 2020 16:59

Dec 11, 2020
Army headquarters rejig: Deputy Chief for capability development, sustenance soon

NEW DELHI: The Army will streamline procurement process by creating a position which will look after both revenue and capital expenses, closing a gap felt when weapons and subsequent ammunition and spares were purchased. The new position of Deputy Chief Capability Development and Sustenance (CD&S) is expected to cut down procurement timelines and reduce bureaucratic layers that delay key procurements.

Mooted almost three years ago, the new post will see 4 Corps Commander Lt Gen Shantanu Dayal as the first full Deputy Chief (CD&S) when he takes charge next month. “Under the plan, both revenue and capital procurement will come under one vertical. This will result in better synergy, better inter se prioritisation of capability development and streamlining of revenue procurement like ammunition and spares,” a source told ET.


https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/army-headquarters-rejig-deputy-chief-for-capability-development-sustenance-soon/amp_articleshow/79685696.cms

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 14 Dec 2020 20:13


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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 15 Dec 2020 01:50

ks_sachin wrote:
Karan M wrote:How IAF will manage in a theater command is going to be a challenge. They are too bereft of airframes to permanently earmark resources for each theater.


1) Karan do you know if there is a specific set of problems that these theatre commands are trying to solve down to an operational level.

Have we stress-tested these concepts as well as the IBGs down to the tactical level to truly know what issues come up when the proverbial hits the ceiling.

Also, I am not confident the current CDS is doing the right thing by going for these big-ticket items so soon. If things don't go to plan then the office of the CDS will become another millstone around the forces neck. 2) As I see it these theater command concepts are being driven by the Army...


1) China has one command facing India. India has 7 different commands all located far away from each other. This theaterization is to bring unity of command. As you see India will have one command against China and another against TSP. In effect, it's the old Western Command and Eastern command but will include IAF and Naval assets.
2) No they are driven by the military of which the Army is a component. These were recommended by KRC report onwards and kept stalling.

Bonus, these large formations' command experience is only with the Army.
So I expect there will be deputy commandeers from other services to gain first-hand experience.

These reforms are to improve matters. Not to destroy.

Don't go by lobbies Bokwas.


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