CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

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Rahul M
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Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

The US has its Unified Combatant Commands (UCC) and both our prospective adversaries, china and pak, have a de facto version of integrated command, by virtue of the overwhelming domination of the ground forces.
over the past few weeks I had been looking up organizational structures of Integrated commands of various countries, trying to guesstimate how an Indian version would look like. even drew up an entirely speculative structure of such 'combined commands' , down to subordinate commands and such. :D


in what can only be called a happy coincidence, I find Lt Gen Katoch has penned an article in IDR on the same issue. :)


****** IMPORTANT ******
I am starting this thread for discussion and collection of news items regarding 'jointness' in the Indian military. jointness is defined as cooperation among all arms of the defence forces, including but not limited to formation of a CDS and an unified command.
an eventual unified structure for the Indian armed forces is a must if it has to operate effectively in the coming years.

feel free to add material about the existing unified structures like A&N command and IDS(integrated defence staff).

NOTE : while I understand disconnect with politico-bureaucratic structure is a major reason for lack of movement on this issue, kindly don't use this thread for discussing any political point unless it directly relates to 'jointness'.


for example, a general discussion on the anti-military leanings of the Indian ruling class, while very interesting is completely verboten in this thread.
**********************


http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... -commands/
Integrated Theatre Commands
By Lt Gen Prakash Katoch
Issue Vol. 28.3 Jul-Sep 2013 | Date : 15 Oct , 2013

Jointness and integration of the Military is an inevitable requirement for the modern day battlefield. The biggest challenge to jointness is to bring about an attitudinal shift by turning the sense of insecurity and mutual suspicion into a sense of belongingness amongst the Services as well as the politico-bureaucratic establishment. The change will need to be implemented top down for it to take root and be effective. While there is urgent need to appoint a CDS, we should get on with initiating the process of establishing ITCs and IFCs in the larger interest of achieving jointness and integration.


Both the Kargil Review Committee and the follow-up Group of Ministers (GoM) had recommended the appointment of a Chief of Defence Staff (CDS), essential to synergise the Indian Armed Forces and provide single point military advice to the political authority of the country. The GoM report says, “The functioning of the Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC) has, to date, revealed serious weaknesses in its ability to provide single point military advice to the government, and resolve substantive inter-Service doctrinal, planning, policy and operational issues adequately. This institution needs to be appropriately revamped to discharge its responsibilities efficiently and effectively including the facilitation of jointness and synergy among the three Services.”

............

Equally to blame are the Service Chiefs who, to maintain their own turfs, have never been united in telling the government that the appointment of a CDS is necessary for the good of the military and the country. The Service Chiefs want to retain ‘operational’ control of their respective services despite their designation being Chief of Army/Navy/Air “Staff”. Then are instances where a Chief has even done a complete turnabout and made statements against the need of a CDS at the time of retirement for the sake of a Governorship, obviously playing along the politico-bureaucratic lobby that is against appointing a CDS. Equally painful has been the decision by the Service Chiefs in turning down the concept of Integrated Theatre Commands despite various joint studies highlighting the tremendous operational and administrative benefits that would accrue with such reorganisation – this again because of individual turfs.
..............

Integrated Commands

The vast expanse of India requires identification of geographical theatres that are of military security concern. Conceptually, a theatre should include within its geographical boundary the entire geographically contiguous territory of a competing entity or an adversary including geographically contiguous territories of those entities or states which, in the event of hostilities, may collaborate either with the adversary or with own country. It must also include adjoining seas and space above that may be essential for manoeuvre of own forces to address the threatening entity/adversary and its geographically contiguous collaborator(s). This is an exercise which must be undertaken by the Indian strategists and military planners in order to arrive at a common politico-military-economic strategy for managing geo-strategic concerns of the country and designate a single multi-disciplinary and multi-service agency to formulate and implement a common “theatre strategy”.


The three Services presently have 17 single Service Commands. In addition, there are two Tri-Service Commands in Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC) and Strategic Forces Command (SFC). The 19 Commands have considerable duplication and need streamlining. The geographical zones of responsibilities of various Commands of the three Services have little commonality. In most cases, the command of one Service overlaps or is linked with two or more Commands of sister Services. None of the Commands are collocated leading to lack of coordination in intelligence sharing, planning and execution.

The truth is that single Service Commands are antiquated structures which violate the basic principle of operational art which stipulates single-point command of military resources to attain the desired objectives. Integrated Theatre Commands (ITCs) need to be established encompassing the entire operational spectrum with two to three Integrated Functional Commands (IFCs) that may be Bi-Service or Tri-Service under each ITC. The existing 17 single service Commands need to be reorganised accordingly. Fear of dilution of command authority and loss of promotional avenues due to right sizing, are unwarranted since none of these 17 Commands need be disbanded though re-alignment of operational geographical boundaries will obviously need to be undertaken.

Military thinkers in India have opined that only an Act of Parliament can bring about changes for our defence forces…

The need of the hour is that all single Service Commands gradually evolve into either ITCs (akin to ANC) or IFCs (akin to SFC). Command and staffing of all ITCs and IFCs should be tri-Service taking into account existing rank structures so that promotional avenues of any Service are not affected. The CDS should exercise full operational control on the Commands. Reorganisation of the 17 single service Commands can be on the lines of four to five ITCs based on defined geographical theatres in addition to the ANC. These should be the IFCs consisting of an Integrated Aero-Space Command, Integrated Cyber Defence Command, Integrated Air Defence Command, Integrated Special Forces Command, one or two Integrated Training Command(s) and one or two Integrated Logistics & Maintenance Commands, in addition to the SFC.

There has been speculation in the past to the requirement of separate Integrated Commands for Internal Security and for Disaster Relief but these would be redundant without separate resources being allocated, which is unlikely in the foreseeable future. ITCs and IFCs cannot be established in isolation from implementation of a strategy for fostering jointness and integration in the Services. Steps would need to be taken in phased manner. Gradual changes would need to be brought in both vertically and horizontally without reducing operational capabilities at any stage. In fact, reorganisation of Commands should be orchestrated in a manner that each step boosts combat capability.

Requirement

The best option is the top down approach by appointing a CDS followed by reorganisation of the existing Commands into ITCs and IFCs. However, this implies wait for strategic wisdom to dawn on the politico-bureaucratic hierarchy. In the UK, the CDS was simply thrust upon the military by the government after 18 years of bickering and dissensions amongst the Services. Other countries adopted government resolutions for such acts, enforcing jointness and integration and for ushering in RMA.


Many a time strategists and military thinkers in India have opined that only an Act of Parliament (like the Goldwater-Nichols Act of the US) can bring about such changes in the Indian defence forces but the million dollar question is how this can happen. While there are no easy answers, it may be prudent for the Military (actually HQ IDS in this case) to work on a Draft Act of Parliament, for which adequate interaction with think tanks and strategic thinkers should be done. If the COSC goes to the Government with such a draft, there are bright chances of it seeing the light of the day sometime in the future.

Concurrently, the COSC needs to take a call on the formation of the ITCs and IFCs through reorganisation of single Service Commands (framework for which is already with HQ IDS) and seek government approval through a comprehensive proposal including time-plan of its implementation. Needless to mention, this requires sincere resolve on part of the Service Chiefs and a strong Chairman Chiefs of Staff Committee to see it through. Past experience shows that whenever the three Services have come to an agreement at a sufficiently high level before going to the MoD, the bureaucrats find it difficult to reject it.
..............

Permanent allocation of forces is required to ensure security of military theatres. The ANC set up is one example where the operations are still looked after by the Eastern Naval Command (ENC) due to lack of resource allocation by the Navy. Additionally, jointness in operations flows from sound joint training. Permanent allocation of forces is required to train together for fighting jointly.


Changes in nomenclature of the Services HQ to Integrated HQ of MoD have not gone beyond an exercise in semantics…

Meagre resources available with each Service have precluded any meaningful level of joint training, thereby affecting implementation of any joint concept. There are few organisational structures in place, which could meaningfully formulate or impart the desired level of joint training. The essential ingredients of a joint training system (joint training philosophy, joint training infrastructure and joint training processes) need to be implemented. Additionally, technology is one of the principal factors that drive the change in the method of war-fighting. It has been the main impediment in achieving any level of jointness in the Indian context. Key technologies enabling joint war-fighting are a pre-requisite to fighting and training jointly.

The Government must also seriously address the issue of true integration of HQ IDS and the Services with the MoD. Changes in nomenclature of the Services HQ to Integrated HQ of MoD have not gone beyond an exercise in semantics. Integration of Service HQ with MoD should transcend nomenclatures, cut out duplication, decentralise decision making and devolve financial powers. Joint staffing throughout MoD by Service and civilian officers should be the norm. Financial advisers must work under Service HQ and act as advisers not controllers. Cross posting of Service officers to MEA, MHA, NSC should be reciprocated by posting of civilian officers to HQ IDS/Services HQ, ITCs and IFCs, all aimed at political hierarchy getting direct advice from military professionals.

............
While there is urgent need to appoint a CDS, we should get on with initiating the process of establishing ITCs and IFCs in the larger interest of achieving jointness and integration. Consensus and determination of the Military would ensure overcoming diplomatic hurdles. If we are to be determined to emerge winners in future conflict situations, we need to begin now.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by ramana »

RahulM, One line of discussion so far in the CDS, Triservice Issues thread:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=3&t=6410
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

thanks ramana ji, this report has more meat on it regarding how the structure might shape up on ground.
hoping to see footfalls from the oldies. :)
I will add more articles in the coming days.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by rohitvats »

Rahul M wrote:thanks ramana ji, this report has more meat on it regarding how the structure might shape up on ground.
hoping to see footfalls from the oldies. :)
I will add more articles in the coming days.
Great thread - Rahul M.

I must admit this is an aspect I've never really bothered to check upon - hoping to change it this time.

One suggestion - it would be prudent to post articles from thread link given by ramana which highlight the issues and challenges. Would be good reference point for people.

Will definitely work towards adding to this.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

definitely rohit, I am pressed for time or else would have done so myself.

just for kicks, here's a speculation in my blog about a possible unified command structure.

http://brfrahulm.blogspot.in/2013/10/un ... s-v01.html
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

http://www.janes.com/article/28473/indi ... ign=Buffer
India confirms joint commands for cyber, special forces and space
Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
16 October 2013

India's armed forces have finalised the formation of three new unified commands for special operations, cyberspace, and space.

The commands, that are awaiting government confirmation, will be headed by three-star officers from the army, navy, and air force respectively, officials said.


"We have firmed up proposals for the three new commands and plan on sending these to the government for approval by the end of October," Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, who is also chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee (CoSC), said in New Delhi on 4 October.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by member_23455 »

NOTE : while I understand disconnect with politico-bureaucratic structure is a major reason for lack of movement on this issue, kindly don't use this thread for discussing any political point unless it directly relates to 'jointness'.

for example, a general discussion on the anti-military leanings of the Indian ruling class, while very interesting is completely verboten in this thread.
One can only hope one day this can apply to all Mil Issues threads. :)

Excellent thread as others have opined. But you are actually talking about two different things here:

1. Joint commands - like SOCOM, Cyber, Space
2. UCC/COCOM/Integrated Theatre Commands - like CENTCOM, PACOM etc.

The first kind I see happening quite smoothly since every service has got its "share' so to speak. The second, to the best of my knowledge, has only seen headway from the army as part of General VK Singh's transformation studies--and that may not have a US like structure.

Unless CDS and Integrated MoD happen, the latter seems a fair distance away.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

it does apply to all Mil threads.

you are correct but Lt Gen katoch's article talks of the functional commands as well. any details available about General VK Singh's transformation studies ?

>> Unless CDS and Integrated MoD happen, the latter seems a fair distance away.
could be. this is more of a thread on the nitty gritty of the idea.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Singha »

when families dont have enough meat on table, squabbles are sure to occur.

if our country is rich and efficient enough to give some 300 frogfoot types & 300 gunships to tactical aviation, the army could have its own small AF.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by member_23455 »

Rahul M wrote:it does apply to all Mil threads.

you are correct but Lt Gen katoch's article talks of the functional commands as well. any details available about General VK Singh's transformation studies ?
I was referring more to the title of the thread.

On ITC and VKS, Dribs and drabs...when you google "Integrated Theatre Battle", such as this link from the sarkari Sainik Samachar

http://sainiksamachar.nic.in/englisharc ... -12/h1.htm
Exercise 'Shoor Veer' is based on the integrated theatre battle concept under South Western Army Command with the elite Strike Corps in the lead, supported by Chetak Corps and all other relevant elements of South Western Army. The Army and IAF has tested new battle fighting concepts and doctrines during the exercise.
Unfortunately, while these point to "jointness", all these seem to be just extensions of the US "Airland battle" doctrine formulated first in the 1980s.

The UCC/COCOM structure is a different ball game - as the Katoch article says, it required the Goldwater-Nichols Act (1986) in the US to make it happen, so while one can discuss the military structure in isolation, inevitably the higher defense management - CDS and MoD will sooner or later enter the picture.

The nitty gritty begins with the top as you have to find the three wise men face saving jobs before moving to an ITC structure.

FWIW, I don't think the service chiefs will agree to a COCOM structure in India even if they agree to a CDS, especially if the CDS is a promotion and not a rotation like the CoSC.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by RamaY »

Question:

Given the geopolitical surroundings of India and associated complex geography, shouldn't we have theater commands by direction; North, North-East, East, South-East, Southern etc.,

And each command should be equipped to handle any threat from that general direction on their own, especially with the help of neighboring theater commands?

For example the North-East command should be able to face threats from China with the help of eastern and north-eastern theater commands, while the Pakistani threat is covered by western and North-western commands?

Given the diversity of geography in each direction, each command will have necessary Army-AF-Naval capabilities and assets?
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by member_23455 »

RamaY wrote:Question:

Given the geopolitical surroundings of India and associated complex geography, shouldn't we have theater commands by direction; North, North-East, East, South-East, Southern etc.,
This is the most logical, simple, and incremental answer. In fact the IDF follows such a structure.

http://www.idfblog.com/about-the-idf/id ... -commands/

Trouble is:
1. These are army-centric and army-led
2. These don't cater to an expeditionary/geo-strategic need.

If, one accepts the premise that India's "tryst with destiny" is to be a world superpower in a 25-30 year time frame, then to spend huge time and effort to make incremental changes which will not meet our needs beyond the medium-term, may be sub-optimal.

If India is to project power from Africa to South East Asia, the solution has to be more radical and complex.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

@ramay, please check my blog link above.

my speculation was that other than these geographical commands which are a necessity, there should be other commands that take care of deployment abroad. ideally, these commands would also analyze and create SOP's for out of India contingencies.

here's the relevant part. consult the blog for the existing commands of the 3 forces.

Code: Select all

========================================================================
Combined Forces Commands                AoR                                                  Composition


1. CC North           : J&K, HP, Punj, Har, NCT, UK                            IA NC(+ UK) + IA WC + WAC

2. CC West            : Raj, Guj, Mah, Goa + Arabian Sea                        IA SWC(+Guj) + SWAC + WNC

3. CC East             : WB and all NE states                                                  IA EC + EAC

4. CC South          : All southern states + BoB                            IA SC(-Guj+Odisha) + SAC + ENC

5. CC Central         : UP, MP, CHT, Bihar, Jharkhand                            IA CC (-UK) + CAC

6. CC A&N            : A&N islands and all deployments
                                 east of A&N.               

7. CC Indian Ocean    : Indian Ocean and all deployments outside               IA Expeditionary Command
                        India west of A&N including peace-keeping           (controls all peacekeeping forces)
                        and anti-piracy.                                      + IN Indian Ocean Command
                                                                              + IAF Expeditionary Command
=========================================================================

Each such Combined Forces Command to be commanded by a 'Force Commander' who controls all military assets commanded by his sub-ordinate tri-service commands. CC A&N & CC Indian Ocean to concentrate exclusively on overseas deployment and operations, leaving other commands to concentrate on India and its immediate neighbourhood. Assets to be allocated to the expeditionary commands as and when required.
-------------------------------------------------------
Singha wrote:when families dont have enough meat on table, squabbles are sure to occur.

if our country is rich and efficient enough to give some 300 frogfoot types & 300 gunships to tactical aviation, the army could have its own small AF.
surely, that's when they need to share ?
unified commands are all about efficient utilization of resources. if we had unlimited funds we could have just duplicated structures everywhere. i.e give an AF to the army, a small army to the AF ! ;)
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by RamaY »

Thanks RahulM. AWMTA ;)

Given the fact that the role of military is to protect India's territorial, economic and cultural (for now let us assume it doesn't exist - for there is no single Indian way of living that is exportable) integrity from external threats,

- These theater commands follow a defensive offense posture
- The central command is responsible for strategic and space deterrence/defense
- the central command can also sustain a corps/MAJCOM level unit for expeditionary objective (along with the logistical and reserves capacity).
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by chackojoseph »

A&N command will be taken over by Navy shortly, permanently.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rahul M »

yes, says so here.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 574_1.html
The armed forces propose to set up three separate commands in the fields of special operations, cyber security and space, IAF Chief NAK Browne said.

"We are in the process of setting up three commands which will be steered by particular service and they will be headed by three-star officers," he told DD News in an interview.

He said as per the plans, the Special Operations command will be headed by an Army officer and the Space command by an IAF officer, while the Cyber command will get its head on rotational basis from the three services.

Browne said the Andaman and Nicobar Command, now headed by officers from the three services on a rotational basis, will be under a Navy Vice Admiral.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by SBajwa »

I like this approach as oppose to CDS!
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rakesh »

Military to propose setting up US-style Unified Commands
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=249918
- PMO is keen on a proposal that would establish unified commands in different areas of the country.
- Each command would have one officer in charge of the resources of all the three services.
- Currently, such a command is in place only in Andaman and Nicobar.
- US military functions on the basis of such theatre commands; China recently adopted the practice.
Military to propose setting up US-style unified commands
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mili ... 58184.html
The armed forces are set to deliver a presentation to PM Narendra Modi on the creation of theatre commands. Each command would combine the resources of the Army, Navy and Air Force under one commander, who would be from either of three services.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by ramana »

A&N Command under a Vice Admiral is very important move.
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by ramana »

Rakesh, Can you post the link to search for old BRM articles please? Don't now why they are not directly linked in the SRR area?
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rakesh »

Are you thinking of that unfied command article that came in BRM all those years back? I am trying to find it myself.

I found the old BR Monitor page ...but no links work....how do we contact the BR Main site administrators? There has to be archives somewhere.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/archives/MONITOR/
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Re: Integrated Theatre Commands for India

Post by Rakesh »

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CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Last Page of Previous Thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7767&start=200

Mods: Please update info below, as and when new information is available. Thank You.

=======================================

News and Discussions with regards to the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS), the Department of Military Affairs (DMA) and the structure, mandate & operations of the new joint theater commands in the Indian Armed Forces.

Chief of Defence Staff - Apointee

• General Bipin Rawat, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, YSM, SM, VSM, ADC [01 January 2020 - Present]

Additional Info ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipin_Rawat

Department of Military Affairs

The Department of Military Affairs (DMA) is planned to have three joint secretaries from the Army, Navy and the Air Force. The joint secretaries of the DMA, headed by Chief of Defence Staff General Bipin Rawat, will be of the ranks of Major General, Rear Admiral and Air Vice Marshal. To date, 13 deputy secretaries, 25 undersecretaries and 22 section officers - from the Indian Administrative Service - have been transferred to the DMA.

Additional Info ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departmen ... ry_Affairs

Joint Theatre Commands

• Possible future command structure. Not finalized.

Image

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Articles on CDS and Military Reform

CDS – A shining future for Indian defence or business as usual? [Part 1]
https://www.yuddhaneeti.com/post/cds-a- ... ual-part-1
By Akshay Kapoor, 26 January 2020

CDS – A shining future for Indian defence or business as usual? [Part 2]
https://www.yuddhaneeti.com/post/cds-a- ... ual-part-2
By Akshay Kapoor, 04 February 2020

The significance of the post of CDS lies in its potential for re-imagining national security
https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... y-6208780/
By Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd), 10 January 2020

India's CDS: Giving Effect to Higher Defence Reform
https://www.delhipolicygroup.org/public ... eform.html
By Lieutenant General Anil Ahuja (Retd) and Brigadier Arun Sahgal (Retd), 02 January 2020

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Multimedia

CDS Role and Responsibilities have Exceeded Expectations



Views on CDS by Major Gaurav Arya (Retd)

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Theatre commands may take 3 years: Army Chief
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... juFdO.html
21 Feb 2020

India may have 5 theatre commands along borders with Pakistan, China: CDS
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 183766.cms
18 Feb 2020

CDS proposes to merge Eastern & Western Naval Command as Peninsular Command to protect South India
https://www.deccanherald.com/national/c ... 05461.html
17 Feb 2020

India To Get Military Commands In 3 Years, Biggest Restructuring Ever
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-t ... er-2174788
04 Feb 2020

India will work out its own model of theatre commands: CDS Rawat
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 062932.cms
02 Jan 2020

CDS' olive green uniform to represent 3 services
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst
31 Dec 2019

Government Amends Rules, Service Chiefs to Now Retire at 65 if Chosen as CDS
https://www.india.com/news/government-a ... s-3893242/
29 Dec 2019
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

CDS General Rawat doing the right things first
https://bharatkarnad.com/2020/02/18/cds ... ngs-first/
18 Feb 2020

Promotions, posting of senior defence officers now come under CDS
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/p ... 2020-02-14
14 Feb 2020

Bipin Rawat headed-DMA will give preference to domain experts like DRDO and ISRO
https://theprint.in/india/bipin-rawat-h ... ro/365781/
14 Feb 2020

MoD approves Rules of Business for the new CDS, General Bipin Rawat
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... t/1820083/
11 Jan 2020
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Okay, I went through all the pages of the previous thread and pulled out all the relevant articles and videos. I have posted them above. Now continue discussions in this thread. The old thread has been archived and a link has been provided at the very top of the first post.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Along with the many joint theatre commands under consideration, may this mango abdul suggest that the CDS look into establishing a joint Air Training Command? All future airmen (fighter stream, transport stream, helicopter stream) in the IAF, IN and IA should graduate from this one institution.

Basic flight training/laws are the same, whether you are in Army, Navy or Air Force. I do not know about transport and helicopter streams, but I believe they also learn to fly on a basic trainer aircraft before moving on to their respective streams.

Pool all the instructors, training platforms, associated equipment together - where possible. Cost Savings? Not sure if this would work, just something that I thought of. Comments welcome, but please do not shoot me :)

Example ---> Fighter Stream
HTT-40 (Basic Trainer) ---> HJT-36 (Intermediate Trainer) ---> Hawk AJT (Advanced Trainer) ---> Tejas SPORT (Supersonic Trainer) ---> Frontline Fighter Squadron (Su-30MKI in the IAF or MiG-29K in the IN).

*At the last stage (frontline fighter squadron), pilots from their respective service of choice learn the skills required to operate the Su-30MKI of the Indian Air Force or the MiG-29K of the Indian Navy at their parent squadron. But prior to the last stage, pilots should graduate from one stage to the next under one institution like an Air Training Command.

Example ---> Transport Stream
Do 228 (operated by the Indian Air Force, Indian Navy and the Indian Coast Guard)

Example ---> Helicopter Stream
HAL Dhruv (same as the transport stream example and also the Indian Army)
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Something I wrote for Bharat Rakshak Monitor in Nov-December 1999

What Next? Way to a Credible Deterrent
....
Joint operations

It is essential to integrate the services and the ministry of defense. The Defense Secretary should be in charge of administration and budgetary process etc. In other words a purely administrative capacity. The Chief of Defense staff should be selected and appointed on basis of merit and should be the point of contact for passing on the strike authorization to the strike force command. It is also necessary to ensure that the services operate in a joint manner.

In the Northern and eastern sectors, theater commands combining Army and Air Force units should be set-up. The theater commander can be from Army or Air Force. The headquarters need not be in the same location. This way there is dispersion of command assets. In the southwest and southern sectors there could be tri-service theater commands led by competent officers from any of the services. As a start, a joint theater warfare/command school should be setup in the National Defense College, by combining the existing elements from the different service establishments, which are now scattered all over in isolation.

Please read the article for full knowledge!!!
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

One way to kill flow of a thread is to open a new one just because an infrequent contributor objects to it.
And even the person who objected to previous thread has not posted here.
SAD.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by dinesha »

Northern theatre command with China should have Navy element: Gen. Rawat
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 601393.ece
Theatre commands will mainly be between the Army and the IAF. While it is the northern border there should also be a small Navy element,” Gen. Rawat told a small group of journalists during the week. Referring to the Navy’s fighter jets, he said, “Can we not bring some of the naval assets to the land borders?”
Saying the naval fighter jets can operate in deserts and the IAF jets there can move to the other borders, Gen. Rawat said, “There is not much of difference between sea flying and desert flying.”
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Brilliant article by Adminullah Mihir, gives a lot of food for thought.
Don’t Knock General Bipin Rawat’s ‘Land Centrism’; It Is Exactly What India Needs
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/dont-kn ... ndia-needs
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Larry Walker »

Article advocates sea denial, but we also need to build sea control power so that we can protect and keep our SLOC's open. Submarines will not be enough to guard against a Carrier group and if we solely depend upon land-based fighters to protect our vast coastlines then by the time the enemy flotilla is within range, they are close enough to our coastline for a beach assualt. India will then have to divert the army to guard possible beach heads. In army terms it is like pitching IBG's against a strike corps or another example would be BMP's and Namica's trying to face down Arjun formations. Surely you will inflict damage but if enemy achives their objectives then these damages don't count much. We still keep debating that even though IAF lost higher numbers against PAF they met their strategic objectives. Same applies for argument between Carrier groups and submarines.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by MeshaVishwas »

One of key charters for the post of CDS is resource optimization.Spending so much on another new AC vs multiple good Submarines (SSK/SSN) is for me a no brainer.
Even the MRFA thing is tough for me to understand.
This also where I would have liked to see this first among equals thing sorted. Too much confusion from the services.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

CDS' announcements on carrier cancellation and MMRCA contest are exactly what the Navy and Air Force feared with a CDS from an Army background. Prior to CDS, the Chiefs were having a field day with the MoD Babus.

Want 126 MMRCAs? Let us run a contest, go through the hoops, waste decades, call Tejas a three legged cheetah, categorically state that there is no Plan B, etc. Cost is just a minor quibble after all. When you can get ready made phoren fighters to make up the bulk of the fleet, why waste $20 billion on the Tejas program?

Want a 65,000 ton, nuclear powered and EMALS equipped aircraft carrier with 57 carrier borne strike fighters? Let us announce it on Navy Day and definitively state that budgetary allocations have been made for this. $15 billion for 57 "phoren" carrier borne strike fighters is an excellent investment for India's security.

What the CDS is saying is not to cancel aircraft carriers entirely, but rather is a 65,000 ton aircraft carrier with nuclear power and EMALS necessary? Would not a ski jump and a size similar to the Vikrant not be good enough? Same with the MMRCA - does the IAF really need 114 "phoren" combat aircraft? Can the Tejas not make up the bulk of the fleet and a smaller number of MMRCA acquired (36 - 54 aircraft perhaps?). Does India need to be a global expeditionary force like the US? Is being a regional power and guarding the nation's borders not good enough? That is what the CDS is stating.

CDS came, then COVID-19 came and brochuritis went out the window. The Air and Navy Chiefs are putting up a brave face, but even they know now ---> there is no money for these white elephant projects.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

And the OEMs (eagerly supported by BRF's "import pasand" crowd) who push their uber-expensive wares for these white elephant projects are damn frustrated. It is bad enough they have to deal with the archaic and famed Indian Babudom. Now the CDS has added a new headache for them. Get ready for personal defamation of the CDS. That is the next step. India's enemies are within India onlee.

I hope folks now realize why India never had a CDS (until now). How can India's politicians make money otherwise? Love the man or hate the man, but what Prime Minister Modi has done for India - via CDS appointment - is a blessing for swadeshi equipment.

https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 85632?s=20 ----> You can have a problem with the Right, you can be a bit disappointed in Modi (for whatever your reasons) but remember who he is keeping at bay, remember the alternative. It’s not a case of 2 steps foreword, one step back. CONgress would just take India 10 steps back.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Mihir »

MeshaVishwas wrote:Brilliant article by Adminullah Mihir, gives a lot of food for thought.
Don’t Knock General Bipin Rawat’s ‘Land Centrism’; It Is Exactly What India Needs
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/dont-kn ... ndia-needs
Thank you saar! But I️ is not an adminullah :oops:
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote:CDS' announcements on carrier cancellation and MMRCA contest are exactly what the Navy and Air Force feared with a CDS from an Army background. Prior to CDS, the Chiefs were having a field day with the MoD Babus.

Want 126 MMRCAs? Let us run a contest, go through the hoops, waste decades, call Tejas a three legged cheetah, categorically state that there is no Plan B, etc. Cost is just a minor quibble after all. When you can get ready made phoren fighters to make up the bulk of the fleet, why waste $20 billion on the Tejas program?
The IAF only wanted 126 M2k's. The decade long multi-vendor contest with no result was foisted on them by the government and babucracy.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

AIR DEFENCE COMMAND – NEED FOR A RETHINK
https://salute.co.in/air-defence-comman ... a-rethink/
10 June 2020

By Air Marshal SS Soman (retd), PVSM AVSM VM

Image

The appointment of the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) and creation of the Department of Military Affairs (DMA) have been positive and welcome steps taken by the government, to bring in comprehensive defence reforms. While the CDS is expected to promote jointness and synergy among the Armed Forces, the formation of the DMA, as a department of the MoD, would address various issues that have affected the civil-military relations in India.

The two transformational steps give an opportunity for the Armed Forces to significantly enhance their integrated military capability and achieve savings through optimal utilisation of resources. As the focus is towards enhancing jointness by integrating the fundamental warfighting structures i.e. the Commands of the three services, it is imperative that all decisions should be well considered, and implemented after detailed studies, discussion, and debate.

ISSUE

In the above backdrop, the announcement by the CDS to establish a Joint Air Defence Command (JADC), soon after assuming office, took many by surprise. It was supposedly the first step towards the establishment of joint/theatre commands. It was evident that the announcement pre-dated any formal discussion on the subject.

A committee headed by the Vice Chief of Air Staff (VCAS) was thereafter set up to work out the roadmap towards setting up a joint Air Defence Command, indicating that its formation was a fait accompli. Under these circumstances, two critical questions that remain unanswered are, what were the issues, if any, that prompted the need to restructure the present Air Defence (AD) organisation and how the Air Defence Command would make the Air Defence organisation more efficient.

Absence of logical answers to the two questions would create a perception that the decision is either flawed or is a step in the eventual establishment of joint/theatre Commands, wherein the IAF would be excluded from heading a joint/theatre Command and be reduced to a functional Command, like the Air Defence Command.

The cavalier manner, in which the establishment of the Air Defence Command was described as a low hanging fruit, and then directing a joint committee to work out, how to make it happen, supports both the perceptions. The decision to form the Air Defence Command has grave operational risks and its consequences could lead to an irreversible fracture of the very integrity of air operations of the IAF. Since the subject is esoteric, a brief explanation of the concept of Air Defence and the Air Defence organisation would be in order before the merits of an Air Defence Command can be discussed.

CONCEPT OF AIR DEFENCE (AD)

The air defence philosophy of the IAF has undergone a huge change from a point, to limited, to a layered area defence, which envisages engagements even before the enemy aircraft enter our airspace during hostilities. This has been enabled by technology through enhanced ranges of the sensors, communications and weapon systems. Hence, AD is now a subset of Defensive Counter Air (DCA), which is a much broader AD term. Joint AD is essentially an integration concept and not a command, to net all the AD-related ground to air sensors, communications, and weapon systems into the overall AD to permit effective operations for all users of the tactical airspace and avoid fratricide.

As with all defensive operations, air defence is essentially reactive in nature. It requires constant vigilance and quick reactions from the machinery. AD requires the fulfilment of four functions, namely detection, identification, interception and destruction of any platform or weapon, manned or unmanned that enters sovereign airspace and which is identified, as a threat or hostile. Within the sovereign airspace of the country, AD is the primary role of the IAF.

While for the Airforce and Navy, AD is an integral function under operations, the same is a support function towards operations for the Army. The Army and the Navy contribute to ‘detection’ by sharing their radar data, as also ‘destruction’ through their own organic surface-to-air weapons as they defend themselves against an air attack. However, identification, including AD authorisation of every single civil or military flight originating in or transiting through Indian airspace, and interception are the sole responsibilities of the IAF.

AIR DEFENCE (AD) SYSTEM

To fulfil the AD functions there is a need for a ground and airborne sensors, a networked command and control system, fighter aircraft/helicopters for the interception, and aircraft and surface-to-air weapons for destruction. The system needs to be fast reacting so that in the limited time available, it can assess the threat, and respond with the appropriate response to the correct degree.

Issues of AD at Air HQ are dealt with by the AD directorate under the Operations branch led by the VCAS. The AD directorate is headed by the Assistant Chief of Air Staff (ACAS AD). The AD directorate deals with AD policy issues, training, organisation, resourcing and inter-service AD aspects. The operational commands of the IAF, plan and control air defence operations, from the Air Defence Control Centres (ADCCs) through their respective AD Commanders, who are delegated the authority by the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chiefs (AOC-in-Cs) functioning as the regional Air Space Authorities (ASAs). At the field level, the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) nodes conduct the operations.

The AD system of the Army is integrated through Joint Air Defence Centres (JADCs). The entire AD system is digitally networked and rides on the Air Force Net (AFNET) and Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCSs). The existing net-centric AD structure provides the ability to monitor the fused picture of the air situation in the area of interest at various levels for enhanced situational awareness, and optimal application of the centrally planned resources in an effective and decentralised manner.

NEED TO RESTRUCTURE

So, is there a need to restructure the AD organisation, and is a pan-India ADC a good idea? Not at all. It could be substantiated through operational, organisational, empirical, and doctrinal standpoints.

OPERATIONAL

One of the reasons for the erosion of our overall military capability has been the duplication of roles and functions within the three services, leading to suboptimal effort due to overlaps on one hand and voids on the other. As if that were not enough, the establishment of an ADC would now further functionally split the primary functions of the IAF into offensive and defensive roles, with a mistaken belief that the offensive assets assigned to the joint/theatre commands, as and when formed, could be employed solely in a segregated manner towards close support roles. It needs to be understood that the air assets cannot be divided into defensive and offensive roles.

Many of the air defence assets, such as fighters, AWACS, FRA are also needed for the conduct of offensive operations. Just like a submarine may be tasked for defensive deployment off own coast, or an offensive mid-ocean or off enemy coast deployment, and a corps tasked with defensive operations may well be re-tasked for a limited offensive role, so also with aircraft. Except that in case of aircraft, this can take place ‘on-the-fly’ in a matter of seconds with just a couple of orders passed over the radio.

Aircraft (Fighters, AWACS, FRA) returning from a strike mission inside enemy territory may well be re-tasked to take on an air defence role on return, subject to fuel and weapons. If anything, this would be complicated even further by induction of systems like the S-400, which, with greatly extended ranges, can conduct operations against enemy planes flying well within his territory in support of own offensive operations.

For both offensive and defensive air operations to be re-balanced on a continuous and dynamic basis as per the developing situation, there is a requirement for both to be under one Commander. Placing any of these under a Commander exclusively for defensive operations would lead to sub-optimal utilisation. Either they would be underutilised, and hence reduce the weight of attack for offensive operations, or they would be insufficient, and hence ineffective in thwarting enemy attacks.

This flexibility further assumes importance due to the present reduced strength of the air assets and the need to ensure their optimal employment. In the present structure, it is the AOC-in-C of the Air Command who controls both the defensive and offensive operations. As joint/theatre Commands take shape, the control would be exercised by the joint/theatre Commander through the Air Component Commanders.

AD is thus, a fundamental warfighting function of the air force much like defensive land operations or defensive sea operations are to land and naval forces. And just like placing a defensive corps, holding corps and the strike corps under different GOC-in-C’s is unthinkable, so also is divorcing the entire function of AD from offensive air operations and replacing them with a different commander.

Another important operational aspect to be borne in mind is that future wars would be in the form of skirmishes that would be short, intense, and swift. A formidable AD that can cause unacceptable damage to an adversary air riposte, would not only help in controlling the escalation but also serve as a potent deterrent. This is only possible when air operations are unified under a single regional Commander. Operationally, therefore, there is a strong case not to form an ADC as it would severely degrade the conduct of full-spectrum, fast-moving and effective air operations.

ORGANISATIONAL

Organisationally, two agencies of the IAF enable AD operations. Air Headquarters provides the direction and facilitation, and Command Headquarters ensure employment and execution. Additionally, the AD operations are intricately intertwined with airspace management functions, not only with the Air Traffic Services of the IAF but also with civil aviation. A regional air command gives a single point control, and hence civil-military coordination becomes smooth.

Splitting air defence under JADC and air traffic service under the regional command would create huge difficulties in coordination by splitting the military authority. This would affect both civil and military flying operations and test the concept of Flexi- Use of Airspace (FUA) something sorely needed by the ailing airline sector. Near misses between civil and military aircraft do occur, but rarely. With another organisational wall of the Air Defence Command to penetrate, the chances of these occurring will only increase.

The command and control of the entire air operations are exercised through CHOCs and the IACCS nodes by the operational commands. This precludes the establishment of the ADC. At best, the ADC commander, even if Air Defence Command is formed and headed by the IAF, would only serve as an empowered ACAS AD at Air HQ with no role during the war. To force-fit, an operational role on the Air Defence Command would be counterproductive. Similarly, in any future joint/integrated command, adhering to the principle of unity of command, the regional offensive and defensive assets of the IAF would always be under the control of an Air Force Component Commander who would be subordinate to the Integrated Commander.

Organisationally, therefore, there is no pressing reason to form an Air Defence Command extending through geographical commands or theatres. If anything, the existing organisation would be disrupted, command and control lines crisscrossed, organisational bottlenecks created, and the flow of information and decision making slowed down as assets change hands, and control passes from one commander to another. In air defence, where speed is of the essence and every second matter, this will be disastrous.

EMPERICAL

The existing AD setup has been working efficiently and has stood the test of time. The high states of AD alert are reflected in the downing of the Pakistan Navy Atlantique in 1999, despite the brief violation. The fact that the existing setup was able to thwart the PAF attacks during Op Swift Retort in February 2019 speaks well for the system. All the eleven bombs dropped by the PAF aircraft missed their targets as their attack profiles were effectively disrupted by the IAF aircraft.

Admittedly, there was the unfortunate fratricide of a Mi-17 helicopter due to noncompliance of standard operating procedures. The incident, however, had no bearing on the AD organisation. Adding another organisational ‘wall’ by imposing an Air Defence Command will result in further slowing the flow of information and increasing chances of recurrence. Conversely, PAF despite having an AD command was unable to stop IAF aircraft from conducting a successful attack at Balakot. Nor was PAF in a position to stop the Abbottabad raid and other numerous strikes conducted by the Western powers in the FATA region.

DOCTRINAL

Doctrine sometimes seems unnecessarily academic and inconveniently theoretical to an outsider but merits careful evaluation before fundamental changes are made. Establishing a pan-India Air Defence Command cutting across operational theatre boundaries represents the army doctrinal stand of AD as a support function, on the lines of training or logistics. However, as we have seen, AD requires unity of command.

The inherent versatility of air assets also imposes indivisibility as a cardinal tenet of airpower planning. An Air Defence Command on the face of it seems to promote the first tenet, but in reality, works against both, fragmenting needlessly, the most offensive component of military power and diminishing its potency as well as speed of reaction. It would be like depriving a warrior of his shield and asking him to duel with only a sword. Earmarking of AD assets separately also depicts a defensive mindset and is inherently not in tune with the offensive nature of airpower.

SUGGESTIONS

A case for the negation of the Air Defence Command does not mean that there are no inter-service issues in the extant AD setup. These issues, however, are not insurmountable and relate to interoperability, integration, and commonality of training. The interoperability issues pertaining to the handshakes between the communication protocols of the AD systems of the three services. These need to be overcome technologically. As regards integration, a reconciliation is required between the net-enabled and tiered area defence philosophy of the IAF and the legacy point defence concepts of the Army.

This is a mindset issue and relates more to a propensity to own and autonomously operate service specific systems. The commonality of training for similar weapon systems could be ensured by merging the training institutions. To resolve the issues, mechanisms are available in the form of Joint Staff Study Groups (JSSGs) set up for Control and Reporting (C&R) and Ground-Based Air Defence Weapon Systems (GBADWS). There is a need to empower these JSSGs to address the contentious issues and bring in greater

integration. Also, the joint AD structures in the Commands need to be strengthened under the ASA to promote greater synergy. The unity of command at the joint/theatre Command level, as and when established, would also give the necessary fillip to efforts to iron out interoperability and information sharing issues between the services.

CONCLUSION

To conclude, the establishment of the Air Defence Command is a misstep as it is disruptive. It is a force fit solution on a problem that is yet to be identified. Formation of the Air Defence Command would not only go against the operational, organisational and doctrinal wisdom but would also needlessly add an organisation with its attendant costs and going against one of the key objectives of integration, namely, savings. To make the system work, would be an overly complex activity and affect command and control linkages. A major portion of the effort would go in making the new structure work rather than enhancing the operational efficiency of the existing system.

Additionally, it could lead to jockeying for senior positions, turf protection and cadre preservation among the services. Whatever benefits that would accrue from common training and logistics from Air Defence Command could also be achieved in the present setup, with a little more coordination, which in any case is now far easier with the office of CDS having been established, and joint/theatre commands on the way. The establishment of the Air Defence Command would result in an additional command, which is functionally not different from the present AD directorate and would have no operational role in the war. Hence, there is a need to have a rethink on the decision for the establishment of the Air Defence Command.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Rakesh, His article needs analysis as its first rebuttal of a CDS decision. Please post full text. Thanks.
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