CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

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ks_sachin
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

ramana wrote:
Wish they said fostering/training and not grooming!
What is the difference Ramana sir?
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Cyrano »

That used to be a regular word meaning personal care or upbringing, now its mostly refers to what paki gangs do to exploit teenage girls in UK.
ks_sachin
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

I know that Cyrano, but in military parlance, it is used often to denote someone who has been handpicked and readied for a particular role.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by pravula »

ks_sachin wrote:I know that Cyrano, but in military parlance, it is used often to denote someone who has been handpicked and readied for a particular role.
Or in business. “Grooming” someone as a CEO is very common.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Dividing Indian Air Force would be regrettable
https://theprint.in/opinion/dividing-in ... l/1212428/
12 Nov 2022

By Air Chief Marshal S Krishnaswamy (Retd)
The three armed Services must develop an approach of military management and warfighting in a cohesive manner, with a concern for each other. Rush for Theatre Command won't work.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Lack of better thread...

Link: russia-ukraine-war-military-modernization-and-operational-challenges-for-india

russia-ukraine-war-military-modernization-and-operational-challenges-for-india

Aditi Malhotra Ph.D.

It has been over two months since the Russia-Ukraine War began, and the conflict shows little signs of slowing. Beyond the immediate devastation of the war, the fighting in Europe has once again highlighted the strategic dilemma of foreign dependence for military preparedness. The ongoing strategic and diplomatic conundrum faced by Indian decision-makers perhaps best illustrates this case. This also in part explains the Indian government’s relatively muted criticism of Russian actions and India’s abstention from all United Nations votes condemning Moscow.

For Indian military modernization, the ongoing crisis has short- and long-term implications. Immediately pivoting away from Russia will considerably impact India’s near-term military preparedness vis-à-vis Pakistan and China, especially as the ongoing border standoff with China continues. Despite the necessity of Russian military equipment in the near-term, the war is also likely to add further incentives for a gradual shift away from Russia, focus on indigenization, and increasing military cooperation with the West.

Dependence on Russia

India’s strategic relationship with Russia and defense ties date back to the Cold War era. India’s partnership with the Soviet Union deepened, especially after the Sino-Soviet split and resulted in robust security cooperation that acted as a counter to Pakistan’s ties with both the United States and China in the 1970s. The benefits of affordable pricing, supply of advanced technological systems, requisite training, opportunities for co-production and technology transfers made the Soviet Union—and later Russia—an ideal defense partner. It may also be recalled that save a brief period in the immediate aftermath of the 1962 India-China War, American technology and defense equipment were long denied to India, as it was not a member of any American-led alliance. This further pushed India into the Soviet fold. This perpetuating dependency on Russia led to nearly 70 percent of Indian defense equipment today being Soviet origin.

Despite the necessity of Russian military equipment in the near-term, the war is also likely to add further incentives for a gradual shift away from Russia, focus on indigenization, and increasing military cooperation with the West.

India sought to diversify its defense procurement only at the turn of the century. Despite inching closer towards the West and its allies (the United States, France, Italy, and Israel), New Delhi remains dependent on Russia for arms and advanced weapon systems as well as for spares and upgrades. Between 2017 and 2021, India considerably lowered its dependence on Moscow (by almost 23 percent) and focused on domestically produced arms. Yet, Russia enjoyed a share of over 46 percent of India’s arms imports and was India’s largest supplier of a variety of weapons during the past five years. There is cognizance in New Delhi that although the quality of Russian imports pales in comparison to western systems, the West is unlikely to provide India with the advanced defense technologies that Russia readily offers.

Military Preparedness in the Near-Term

India’s core security priorities are focused on its land-border disputes with China and Pakistan and maritime competition with China in the Indo-Pacific—the war in Ukraine stands to impact both these security priorities in the near- to medium-term (the next five years).

India has been in a border standoff with China along the disputed Line of Actual Control (LAC) since 2020. While the disputed Line of Control with Pakistan remains relatively stable, India-Pakistan bilateral ties remain precarious amid a political crisis in Pakistan and downgraded diplomatic relations and suspended trade ties. Apart from the land border disputes, the attention of Indian military planners is consumed by Chinese activities in Indian Ocean Region, where India positions itself as a dominant maritime actor. These security priorities will continue to dictate the trajectory of Indian defense capabilities and preparedness.

In the near term, the most salient Russian weapons deals include the S-400 missile system, Talwar class frigates (Project 1135.6), Akula class nuclear submarines, T-90 main battle tanks (which involves technology transfer), the jointly manufactured BrahMos missile system and AK-203 Rifles (which includes a contract to manufacture most weapons in India). While these deals are already underway and unlikely to be cancelled, the new developments will make the processes complex, time-consuming, and complicated. India has several essential defense imports from Ukraine, including upgrades for the AN-32, R-27 air-to-air-missiles, and propulsion systems for frigates, which will also face disruption.

The war in Ukraine has created pressing concerns for India about Russia’s ability to fulfil its medium and long-term defense requirements. Considering the massive personnel and asset losses faced by the Russian military, Moscow is likely to direct its attention towards its own rearmament first. This will likely delay or disrupt the timely supply of already contracted items from Russia. Reports have surfaced claiming that India has already cancelled contracts to procure MiG-29, Su-30 fighter jets, and Ka-226T helicopters from Russia.

A separate area of concern is the transfer of the four remaining units of the S-400—an advanced surface-to-air defense system­ that is seen as a reliable shield for India from varied types of aerial attacks from China or Pakistan. The Indian Air Force has already deployed the first squadron of the S-400 system after receiving the first batch in December 2021. Although Moscow has continued to supply the simulators and training equipment amid the war, there are concerns over the timely transfer of the remaining units. The war may also impact Washington’s willingness to issue a waiver for India to avoid sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA). Given the banking restrictions, even if India is exempted, it will need to find an alternative payment method such as a rupee-ruble deal. Such a mechanism will complicate matters when deciding the rate of interest against the volatile ruble or dealing with the trade deficit and balancing finances, given that India imports more from Russia than it exports. It is also likely to spark tension with the United States. The delay in deploying and operationalizing the S-400 squadrons weakens India’s air defense capabilities, particularly against China, which has already deployed the same system along the LAC.


The supply of Talwar-class (Project 1135.6) frigates is likely to be impacted as a Ukrainian firm, Zorya–Mashproekt, manufactures the gas turbine engines for the Russia-built ship. The Indian Navy procured the frigates to bolster its capability in the air, surface, and sub-surface naval warfare, and any considerable delays may impact its maritime potential in the Indo-Pacific region. After the 2014 Crimea conflict, New Delhi had to convince Kyiv to provide the propulsion system for the construction of two frigates. With Russian strikes on defense industry sites in Ukraine, the war is expected to severely hamper Ukraine’s export capacity in the near term. In the medium-term, India’s “neutral” stance may hinder India-Ukraine ties leading Kyiv to potentially deny India the engines for the remaining frigates, thereby impacting the supplies of the Indian Navy or relevant spares. Even the Indian Army is likely to get affected by the ongoing crisis. The Future Infantry Soldier as a System (F-INSAS) project has shown limited progress in equipping the soldiers with modern weaponry, including assault rifles, which remains a pressing need. Any significant delay in the production of the planned 6,71,000 AK-203 rifles, set to replace the indigenously developed INSAS rifles, will infect its infantry modernization program.

The war may also impact India’s credibility as an arms supplier. In early 2022, India finalized an agreement with the Philippines to sell three batteries of BrahMos cruise missiles. This deal aligns with New Delhi’s Act East policy and its aim to position itself as an arms exporter. India hopes to boost arms exports, which will provide revenue to strengthen its defense manufacturing and increase domestic production. The weapon is also of interest to countries, including Vietnam and Indonesia, but Russia’s degraded ability to supply critical parts may hinder future exports.

Long Term Implications

In the long-term—between five to ten years—the Ukraine-Russian war is likely to be unfavorable for India-Russia defense ties. First, Russia’s primary priority would be to replenish its losses, which is expected to take years. Second, regardless of the outcome of the war, Russia will be worse off as an arms exporter. Its ability to provide a constant supply of critical defense equipment, spares or meaningful support in joint production will be impacted by sanctions, banking restrictions and a ban on semiconductors, which are likely to remain in place for some time to come. This will make it increasingly difficult for New Delhi to sustain a fruitful long-term association with Russia for arms purchases. Third, the quality of Russia’s defense equipment has been questioned, given their dismal performance and heavy losses incurred in Ukraine. Russian equipment has not witnessed this scale of kinetic operations in some time and reports of the decimation of many Russian T-90 main battle tanks with MANPADs, and the downing of Su-30 fighter aircraft, which are a part of the Indian military, have raised concerns in New Delhi. The subpar performance of Russian systems will be a factor of consideration in future acquisition plans.

The Way Ahead

The developments from the Russia-Ukraine front may serve as a wake-up call for Indian defense planners and political leadership. Several structural, procedural, and material bottlenecks arising from the Russia-Ukraine conflict will make defense procurement from Russia and Ukraine prohibitive or even impossible in the coming years. The strengthening geopolitical alignment between China and Russia may further limit India’s ability to effectively practice a multi-alignment foreign policy. Given the support Beijing has provided Moscow in the conflict—which pales in comparison to New Delhi’s position—India may be faced with a Russia that is far more beholden to China and less likely to support India on issues of strategic importance like the LAC.

Regardless of the outcome of the war, Russia will be worse off as an arms exporter.

Under the backdrop of growing unpredictability in the global order and Prime Minister Modi’s persistent push for self-reliance (Atmanirbhar Bharat), a greater thrust on indigenization seems to be the way ahead. India would look at co-production and technology transfers while selling itself as a global destination for third-country exports by projecting cheap labor and infrastructure costs. Despite divergent positions on Ukraine, the West, particularly the United States, is mindful of India’s growing salience in keeping a check on China in the Indo-Pacific. There is an increasing Western understanding of India’s legacy issues and Russian dependency and the need to provide alternatives, including state of the art technology. In the long-term, therefore, an accelerated push on domestic manufacturing coupled with co-production, technology and knowledge transfers from the West may be a blessing in disguise for New Delhi. However, in the short- to medium-term, obsolescence in defense equipment sourced from Soviet Russia will continue to mar India’s defense preparedness.

Editor’s Note: This article is part of two-part series examining the impact of the Russia-Ukraine war on India and Pakistan’s military modernization programs and operational planning. Read part two
ks_sachin
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

rohitvats wrote:With respect to theater commands, IAF has valid concerns, which are independent of the size of the force. Rather than try and understand them and have an informed debate, it is depressing to see people here calling IAF and its leadership names....
While we have gone into IBGs and IRFs and other acronyms, I am keen to get views on the specifics of theaterisation and its implications for the IAF as RohitVats has penned.

Ramana Sir keen to start with you.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

ks_sachin wrote:While we have gone into IBGs and IRFs and other acronyms, I am keen to get views on the specifics of theaterisation and its implications for the IAF as RohitVats has penned.

Ramana Sir keen to start with you.
Sachin, please DO NOT quote an entire post when replying. A number of users surf BRF using their mobile phone. I have edited your post. Please confirm you have seen this.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Admiral,

I have been following your instructions. But in this instance I purposely included Rohit’s post as I found it strange that his legitimate concerns were not addressed - the CDS knows everything and it will be all right kind of thinking.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

IDSA book on CDS and Beyond

https://www.idsa.in/system/files/book/b ... chadha.pdf

It answers many questions. Read the part on Functional commands. Logic is stated.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by chetak »

Remembering Gen Bipin Rawat, the first CDS on his first death anniversary.

He was a path breaker, a reformist and a good friend.

You're dearly missed Sir.
via@TheSatishDua


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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by VinodTK »

First make a national security strategy, then theatre commands: Former army chief Gen Naravane
NEW DELHI: India’s urgent need to have a national security strategy (NSS) that lays down long-term national and geopolitical objectives in the face of myriad threats came to the fore once again on Thursday, with former army chief General M M Naravane stating it would be a folly to create theatre commands without such a policy in place.
“Unless there is an NSS in place, just to keep talking of `theaterisation’ is to actually put the cart before the horse,” said Gen Naravane, who retired in April this year, while delivering the Gen K V Krishna Rao memorial lecture. Army chief Gen Manoj Pande and other military brass were in the audience.
Gen Naravane’s comments come at a time when a major task before the new chief of defence staff, Gen Anil Chauhan, is the creation of four new unified commands: the integrated maritime theatre command (MTC), air defence command (ADC) and two land-based theatre commands for Pakistan and China.Moreover, almost all countries that matter also regularly issue an overarching NSS to articulate their national and international objectives, security challenges and goals, along with the broad roadmap to achieve them.

In India, however, successive governments have shied away from approving a NSS despite at least four attempts to formalise it over the years. Such a strategy will ensure different ministries and wings can derive their individual goals from it, with the overall aim to safeguard India’s territorial integrity and strategic autonomy, as reported by TOI earlier.
Gen Naravane, on his part, said, “Theaterisation is not an end. It is only a means to an end. And that end must be specified first in the form of a national defence strategy, which will flow out of the NSS.”

He also called for a “higher defence organization (HDO)”, with representation from all ministries for “a whole of nation” approach, to act as the “interface” between the government and the military commanders on the ground.

“Once these two pillars (NSS and HDO) are in place, then we can start thinking about theatre commands. The charter of these theatre commands has to come from the top,” he said.


The NSS would make it clear whether the role of the armed forces is to just defend the country’s land borders and territorial waters, or does it extend to covering the country’s primary area of strategic interest stretching from Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait.

This, in turn, would determine the composition and force-structure as well as the “lead service” in each theatre command. “We (the armed forces) cannot on our own say we will fight a two-front war. Has anybody said it or is it just our own creation? We cannot abrogate to ourselves these responsibilities. When that is laid down, it will make our job of theaterisation a lot easier,” Gen Naravane said.


“There will always be differences of opinion. But once the strategy of a theatre is formulated, then it must be implemented whole-heartedly. Theatre strategy should take precedence over single-service philosophy. That is the only way we will succeed,” he added.

Wonder as to why he did not speak up when he was in office!!
Basically he has mad the job of Gen Anil Chauhan that much difficult
It must have been pretty tough for the other guests to sit through this guys wise observations
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

NSS is there. It is not for dissemination like vada pav wrapper.

NSS is the cart and theater commands are the horses.
Folks want the cart before the horses.

Vinod, Gen Anil Chauhan is doing his job without fanfare as he is not a flamboyant article writer.

Twenty-one years after the KRC report was formulated folks still want to know what the NSS is!

Sad et tu Gen. Narvane!!!
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

VinodTK the former chief may have stated it while in office. He did not go to the media.

Ramana garu if the former chief says that the NSS is not defined then perhaps there is a possibility that it is so. He was quite a respected and erudite CoAS.

He is not asking for the NSS to be made public is he. Doing a Balakot or a SF mission is not an NSS.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Sachin
NEW DELHI: India’s urgent need to have a national security strategy (NSS) that lays down long-term national and geopolitical objectives in the face of myriad threats came to the fore once again on Thursday, with former army chief General M M Naravane stating it would be a folly to create theatre commands without such a policy in place.
“Unless there is an NSS in place, just to keep talking of `theaterisation’ is to actually put the cart before the horse,” said Gen Naravane, who retired in April this year, while delivering the Gen K V Krishna Rao memorial lecture.
He spoke in Delhi today.

Would love to hear all Gen. Krishna Rao garu lectures.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

So you are saying that as Army Chief he was not privy to what the NSS is?

Or that as Chief he did not bother to ascertain whether there was one - which goes againt the accepted wisdom of his competence.

Again he in Delhi is saying that we should have one. Not that we should publicise it.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by fanne »

Why is NSS needed for theater command? (I understand that tactics follow strategy, it helps in making the right tactics). But what big picture is needed for the fact that IAF and IA in North command need to plan together to do war and not fight two separate wars. Or whole of North against China should be 1 command.
I am not advocating that 1 overreaching well-defined NSS or doctrine is not needed. Even today, when we lack it, we still have multiple IAF and IA commands to fight a war. Even if we lack it, a unified command will be more efficient in executing the same battle/war. A NSS will help to better plan it on objectives and predict what men/materials are needed, but lack of it should not stop from making a theater out of it.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

NSS etc are politico military strategy documents.
I dont think India is yet at the stage such things can be published.
Am sure General is aware of its contours if not the fine print.
Still just a revealing data point.
I still would like the full transcript and not press report as we don't know the context.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Fanne,

The NSS will dictate the kind of war we will fight so yes designing a operational force that meets the NSSs needs is a must.

After alll why are we theaterising and creating IBGs? Theaterisation because of the reforms suggested and IBGs because of the kind of war the IA thinks will be palatable happening - short and sharp!

But these two divergent threads have to tie in together somewhere.
Last edited by ks_sachin on 30 Dec 2022 11:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

ramana wrote:NSS etc are politico military strategy documents.
I dont think India is yet at the stage such things can be published.
Am sure General is aware of its contours if not the fine print.
Still just a revealing data point.
I still would like the full transcript and not press report as we don't know the context.
Sir again the General is not asking for it to be published…he is asking that there be one!!!


Lets agree to disagree but this Govt has not exactly covered itself in glory in matters of defence.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by VinodTK »

ks_sachin wrote:VinodTK the former chief may have stated it while in office. He did not go to the media.
Sachin Jee, the former Air force Chief did express his concerns about joint theater commands when he was in office; however I do not recall any statements from Naravane (unless I missed it), WHY NOW ?? Naravane's statements tell me that he was not in sinc with the work being done by the late CDS Gen Bipin Rawat.

We have some idea of how IAF feels about theatre commands
Now the former army chief has expressed his views about the subject
awaiting Navy's opinion (in public, after all they serve the people of India)
ramana wrote:Vinod, Gen Anil Chauhan is doing his job without fanfare as he is not a flamboyant article writer.

Twenty-one years after the KRC report was formulated folks still want to know what the NSS is!

Sad et tu Gen. Narvane!!!
Ramana Jee, hope and pray CDS Anil Chauhan makes it happen.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

USI Facebook

"The USI of India and the Mahar Regimental Centre (MRC) jointly organised 4th General KV Krishna Rao Memorial Lecture 2022. General MM Naravane (Retd) spoke on 'Theaterisation.’ Welcome remarks were made by Comdt, Mahar Regimental Centre.
Major General BK Sharma, AVSM, SM and Bar (Retd) Director, USI in his Opening Remarks thanked MRC for instituting the Lecture. He termed Gen KV Krishna Rao as one of the most outstanding Generals. He remarked that history is full of General's Grit & Valour.
Director USI also thanked General Manoj Pande, PVSM, AVSM, VSM, ADC, COAS and General MM Naravane, PVSM, AVSM, SM, VSM (Retd), former COAS for agreeing to speak on the occasion.
The COAS keynote address touched upon various issues. He said Indian Army continues to support the Idea of India. He talked about four key aspects of transformation of Indian Army— First, Agnipath Scheme which aims to streamline recruitment. Second, technological advancement, where Indian Army successfully included modern technology along with the concept of Atamnirbharta. Third, reform, which is aimed at restructuring or re-balancing to bring right size rather than reducing. Fourth is ‘Theaterisation’. Indian Army, according to the COAS, is fully committed and supportive of integrated theatre command.
Gen MM Naravane, former COAS in his talk explained theaterisation through Malay Campaign and fall of Singapore. He said theaterisation is not an end but means to an end. He said there is a need for a National Security or Defence Strategy. Also there has to be Higher Defence Organisation as an interface between commanders on ground and Government. HDO would be instrumental in reflecting whole of Govt & India approach. Closing remarks &Vote of Thanks was delivered by Adjutant General & Colonel of the Mahar Regiment LT Gen C Bansi Ponnappa AVSM, VSM. The event concluded with presentation of the mementos"
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

And
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 229175513/

Army Chief Gen Manoj Pande on Thursday said that the Indian Army is fully committed and supportive of efforts towards evolving the integrated theatre commands. During the address at the 4th Gen KV Krishna Rao memorial lecture, Gen Pande said, "From General Rao's times while the legacy challenges of disputed and unresolved borders continue, the nature of threats both in the conventional as well as the non-conventional domain have undergone a change."

"You have disruptive and dual-use technologies, which impact the character of warfare, making battle spaces more complex, contested, and more lethal," he added.
The Army Chief said that Information Warfare has sharpened the potential of social media in conflict zones and we have been witness to this for some time now, making it an increasingly significant part of conflict prosecution.

"The grey zone aggression characterized by deniability caution quotient is emerging as a strategy of choice and our adversaries are constantly striving to widen this brand of resume grey zone in the conflict spectrum by employing both kinetic as well as non-kinetic means," he said. He further pointed out that India's geopolitical influence in the international environment has expanded and grown manifold.

"Today, we are witness not only to the rising aspirations of our people, but also the expectations of the world community from our country and the vision for Amrit Kaal for the next 25 years that the honourable Prime Minister enunciated," he said. General Manoj Pande further mentioned that he will focus on four key aspects while mentioning the transformation of the Indian Army.


"The first one is on the aspect of human resource management, where you all are aware of the progressive and in fact, the path-breaking reform of the Agneepath scheme, which was taken about six months back. And we just have started the Agniveers joining the regimental centres - the first batch is of close to 25,000. We also have come up with an extremely transparent, robust, and credible Assessment and Selection system based on which the selected Agniveers will then form the core of our organization in the future," he said. He then highlighted the initiatives regarding the modernisation and infusion of technology.

"The second aspect of transformation that we're looking at is of course, the modernization and infusion of technology through a focused roadmap especially in the context of induction of niche and disruptive technologies. In this regard, again, a number of initiatives and most of you would be aware, we have established Centers of Excellence, especially for AI and quantum key distribution of the MCTE. We also have with the leading academic institutions of the country, established what we are calling the Indian Army cells. This will form the basis of our subsequent major capital procurement project," he said. Emphasizing that it is the right size that matters in terms of rebalancing, force restructuring and optimization of our organizations.

"The third aspect of reforms is in terms of rebalancing, force restructuring and optimization of our organizations. As far as restructuring and reshaping the organization are concerned, I think it is more to I would say right size rather than reducing the size of an organization. It also has to do with improving or getting the teeth-to-tail ratio right. And this regard a number of legacy organizations, legacy units, and establishments, which we found have little or less relevance in today's environment. We are either planning to completely do away with them or maybe rationalize the numbers or in fact, sort of combine some of these organizations in terms of focusing on only our core function, certain non-core activities is something which again, we're looking at undertaking outsourcing in a big way," he said. The Army Chief also pointed out the importance of jointness and better integration.

"Lastly, and perhaps the most important one amongst all four is this aspect of jointness and better integration. And that is where I take the topic for today's lecture on theorization which General Naravane will elaborate on. We are also looking at how best you can integrate it aggregate the capabilities of the three services both in terms of jointness, integration and finally in terms of achieving the integrated theatre command models," he told. "As these initiatives are underway, I am reminded of the famous quote of the Father of the Nation, Mahatma Gandhi who said "Be the change you wish to see in the world," he added.

He said that Army Training Command is leading the effort in change management philosophy. "To address the impact of these changes or transition, the cognitive domain is as important and in that context, we have come up with a change management philosophy where our Army Training Command is leading the effort. This not only applies to the senior or the middle-level military leaders but even to the junior leaders, which I think should be our guiding document in the near future," he said.

Concurrently, he said that ensuring a good organisational climate breeds not only competence and in turn, leads to success. "I'm confident that all these changes that I just alluded to, will bring in a new vigour and confidence in the Indian Army and make it stronger, more capable to be in strike with the future. In effect, all our efforts that I mentioned aim towards giving shape to a modern professional army," he concluded. (ANI)
I think the chief said all that was needed. Gen Narvane said what he felt. It kind of let down the chief's introductory remarks.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

IDSA pdf essay on

An assessment of Organizational Change in Indian Army after 1962 and 1975

"In addition to restructuring after the 1962 war with China and as a
result of the 1975 committee recommendations, the army undertook
organisational changes after the 1999 Kargil conflict and Operation
Parakram in 2001, besides changes related to the ongoing transformation."


"For militaries to undertake successful military change, including the
restructuring of its organisational structure, the two case studies suggest
the importance of the following:
1. long-term strategic assessment;
2. support from the political establishment;
3. visionary and committed military leadership;
4. need for strong institutional structures; and
5. follow-up action to take changes to their culmination."
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Lets not have rose tinted glasses here.

Anyhow if there is a strategy is in place the procurement process does not perhaps find mention in that!!

And VinodTK just because the Air Chief set a bad precedent by being public about Theaterisation does not mean other chief’s have to follow suit.

These things are too important to discuss publicly.

Plus this parroting of theaterisation is interesting when no one has bothered to understand the IAF’s concerns which - forget the Chief - our own RohitVats has elaborated upon.

Please also go into the KRC and try to ascertain how the concept of theaterisation came into being. Was there perhaps a narrative that was to IA centric?
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by rohitvats »

General Naravane has not said anything out of ordinary here.
He's is simply making a case of defining the paradigm around which Theater Commands have to evolve.

These are some points he's made (these are not in chronological order) -

"We have always said theaterisation will have its unique characteristics. Once we know what is to be done, we will automatically know every component of it. Theaterisation is not an end. It is only a means to an end and that end is to be specified first in form of the defence strategy,"

“Theaterisation is not an end, it is only a means to an end and that end has to be specified first in the form of a national defence strategy and that defence strategy has in turn to flow out of a national security strategy. Britain had a national security strategy that they should be able to tackle two navies at one time, not unlike a two-front war theory. Unless there is a national security strategy in place, to just keep talking about theaterisation is actually putting the cart before the horse.”

Drawing on his deductions in a lecture on ‘Theaterisation in the backdrop of Malayan Campaign and fall of Singapore’ during the Second World War, Naravane said once the national security strategy is in place, a higher defence organisation is required to act as an interface between the government – which has made the policy – and the commanders on the ground.

“This higher defence organisation has to reflect… the whole nation. It is nations which fight a war. It has to have representatives of all the ministries,” he said.

“Once decisions are arrived at, the armed forces are trained to do their job and all the other coordination must be carried out by this organisation. This organisation is required because within the strategy laid down, there may be other diplomatic or political considerations, which would limit the freedom of action which is given to the theatre command,” he said.

“The charter of these, the role they have to play… This has to come from the top. We cannot on our own say we will fight a two-front war. Has anybody said that? Or Is it just our own creation? What is the charter? Is the charter only defence of the borders and territorial waters? Or do we have to go deeper into an area of influence… area of interest? This has to come from the top. We cannot arrogate to ourselves these responsibilities. Once that is laid down, it will make our job of theaterisation much easier,” Naravane said.

----------------

Long story short, he's expanded on the whole concept of Theater Commands within the overall security set-up of the nation. I'm glad we've officers who can think along such expanded and strategic lines.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

RohitVats sir thanks.

I now rest my case.

In your view if we had a well defined NS architecture would we have had a different response at Galwan or the recent Tawang clashes?
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Rohit, Do we have the full text of his speech or youtube?
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by VinodTK »

ramana wrote:Rohit, Do we have the full text of his speech or youtube?
Discussion on the topic:
Starting at 2:03
Small clip of Naravane's speech
Ex IA chief Malik and Ex IAF officer expressing their opinion on the show



Ex-Army Chief Questions Theaterisation Approach | MM Naravane | National Security | Mirror Now
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by VinodTK »

Theaterisation will have its unique characteristics: Former Chief of Army Staff MM Naravane
New Delhi | December 30, 2022 12:01:16 AM IST
Former chief of the Indian Army General MM Naravane on Thursday emphasised on the importance of creating a Theatre Command system, which aims to increase cooperation between the three components of the armed forces.

Addressing the 4th Edition of Gen KV Krishna Rao Memorial Lecture, organised by the Indian Army and United Service Institution of India, Narvane said, "Theaterisation as mentioned this topic has occupied much space both in the public as well as in the strategic committee."

He said that theaterisation would have unique characteristics of its own.

"We have always said theaterisation will have its unique characteristics. Once we know what is to be done, we will automatically know every component of it. Theaterisation is not an end. It is only a means to an end and that end is to be specified first in form of the defence strategy," he said.

He also emphasised on the importance of the defence budget by citing instances from the colonial era.

"Any calamity, including natural calamity, is a result of wrong decisions over several years. In 1921, Britain restricted India's defence budgets under their 'No war for 10 years' program. Although the idea was scrapped in 1932, it brought down India's defence budget from $766 million to bare $102 million with a drop of 86 per cent," he said.

He further said this decision left a lasting impact on India's defence budget.

"Intentions change overnight, but capability takes ages to develop. Britain's decision left a long-lasting impact on India's defence budget. The decision-maker was none other than Winston Churchill, who had to himself bear the brunt of it during the Second World War," he further said.

He also said that once a plan is implemented, it should be accepted by everyone.

"There will always be a difference of opinion, but once it's implemented, everyone must accept it wholeheartedly," he said. (ANI)
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Anoop »

https://youtu.be/mTFYyAAk2D8

Some good points about civil-military cohesion, MoD staffing, outdated procurement rules and how to stretch the defense budget.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

For lack of a specific thread I am posting here, CLAWS is planning on a Specialist to study Gray Zone Warfare.

The broad study topics are Military Strategy and Military technology

Here is a link to the pdf:

https://www.claws.in/forms/Call_for_Pro ... 2022-1.pdf
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... sKIPujj62A ---> PM Modi will be briefed about the steps taken towards creation of military theatre commands by CDS Anil Chauhan at the CCC at Karwar naval base in Karnataka in March 2023.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Don’t wait for National Security Strategy. Bring theatre command system, first things first
https://theprint.in/opinion/dont-wait-f ... t/1306578/
By Lieutenant General Prakash Menon (retd), 10 January 2023
It is time for Indian military leaders to realise that their inability to implement an important political mandate is because of inter-Service and intra-Service disagreements.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Oh Dear......

doctrinal underpinning of the political mandate. The military leaders have all signed on to the mandate.

So what is the mandate and what is it meant to achieve? Surely that is what the NSS is supposed to spell out. A useless article if there was one.

Yes, the inter-services rivalry is an issue but theaterisation will not solve fundamental issues that start much lower down the food chain in the armed forces.

This is like me telling my son to clean his room and he shoving all his clothes into every nook and cranny in his room. Then when I go looking for my shorts that he has "borrowed" it all comes tumbling down!
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Cyrano »

Fromt Gen Menon's article :
Strategy connects the resources available with the objectives that are distilled from interests. It is an endless process that has to, when warranted, adjust to the changes in the strategic landscape and involves a continuous conversation between objectives and resources. It is a product of bilateral or multilateral engagements with different nations harbouring adversarial or friendly intentions. Normally, the test of a good strategy is its ability to endure. Important strategic vectors that impinge on the state of relations between nations are often outside the control of individual nation-states; strategy as practiced, therefore, has a contingent edge that cannot easily be transcended by long-term planning and belongs to the realm where people in the seats of power and the practitioners are perennially under test. For the military, what NSS can facilitate is long-term planning to identify and develop the military instruments that are optimally organised for carrying out their envisaged roles
He has hit the nail on the head. NSD and NSS, even if they were fully spelt out today will not be static for very long given the profound transformation of the world towards multi-polarity and the formation of groups, alliances that reflect changing interests of the involved parties in our neighborhood and beyond.

Gen Naravane's statement is surprising and his argument tries to put a fig leaf on the resistance to change within each service and the resistance to change the existing balance of power/responsibility between the services - essential to achieve theaterisation.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

I suspect Theaterization is going to come sooner than we realize for the retired folks are complaining.
For me, the biggest reason is China's WTC command.
Facing them are six Indian military commands.
Can't have such divided forces when facing a unified opponent.
Will Gen. Narvane be happy if the 1962 dysfunction is repeated?

What we have is a dysfunction in the forces and Delhi.
This can't go on.


Theaterization was supposed to happen after the KRC report in 1999.
It got referred to the Group of Ministers(GOM) under Arun Singh.
And went into limbo.
Next we had Naresh Saxena Committee with an adhoc idea that was not implemented.

The first NaMo govt reforms were not taken up.
Second NaMo govt CDS Gen Rawat was appointed.
He was a gentleman and tried to get a consensus but was stalled.
Unfortunately, he died before he could implement the reforms.
Now a new CDS Gen Chauhan is appointed and his mandate is to implement the reforms.
Its not a matter for argument.
If those in service don't like it they should resign.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Anyone has actual talk by Gen Narvane?
Even USI doesn't have the talk.
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Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Please be aware one of the fundamental things that the Shekatkar committee was set up to do was to suggest ways to rebalance defence expenditure.

The Shekatkar committee also recommended the following -

-A Joint Services War College should be set up to train mid-level armed forces officers.
-The Military Intelligence School at Pune should be transformed into a tri-service intelligence training establishment.

Where are these? These make perfect sense from a cost rationalisation perspective and from all my readings thus far, this were not recommended from a higher defence management perspective.

Here are some articles on theaterisation.

- https://www.claws.in/static/IB-299_%E2% ... %80%99.pdf
- https://idsa.in/system/files/jds/14-2-2 ... asingh.pdf

Here is another article;

- https://thewire.in/security/india-milit ... p-proposal

It's easy to blame intra-services rivalry etc., on resistance. Perhaps the problem is that the problem that is sought to be solved has not been articulated properly. Ramanaji's example of 6 IA commands vs one Chinese command applies to the IA. This is an IA problem. How does this apply to the IAF? If the effective use of air assets is to be addressed then the problem lies not in theterisation but more in the fact that our officers are not trained in combined arms warfare from the ground up. As it is the IA showed a poor understanding of Air power in Kargil..

And Ramana ji, you do a disservice to a Gen Naravane. He did not say no to theaterisation but asked that military objectives that the theatre commanders are working align with the political objetives out so that planning and training, and equipping can progress in line. OR are you saying that theater commanders have carte balance to do what they need to do or that we have the luxury of sitting and discussing think like in 1962 while the Chinese made merry.
Last edited by ks_sachin on 13 Jan 2023 11:28, edited 2 times in total.
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