CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 1985
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Atmavik »

Well Optics do matter, look at he viral video from cat-man-doo
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Atmavik wrote:Well Optics do matter, look at he viral video from cat-man-doo
I am sorry Sirji. Me no understand.
My point was the delay in appointment belies the high significance and importance of that post.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheAvenger82/status ... RNYcOghErA ---> Government is looking at possibly splitting the post of the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) and Secretary, Department of Military Affairs (DMA), both of which were held by the late General Bipin Rawat. DMA will report to CDS and will be held by a commander rank official.
I believe this is where the above tweet got this info from.

Modi govt likely to split post of CDS & Secretary DMA, both held by General Bipin Rawat
https://theprint.in/defence/modi-govt-l ... at/943181/
05 May 2022
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Bipin Rawat’s Successor: Mystery Again Over CDS Post Ignored by India Since '70s
https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion ... -since-70s
By Commodore C Uday Bhaskar (Red), 05 May 2022
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32226
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by chetak »

Rakesh wrote:Bipin Rawat’s Successor: Mystery Again Over CDS Post Ignored by India Since '70s
https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion ... -since-70s
By Commodore C Uday Bhaskar (Red), 05 May 2022
The deep state was always opposed to the CDS proposal because they feared the creation of a power center that would maybe out grow their control mechanisms and leave then vulnerable to a paki like situation.

the pathetic coconut and the intellectually limited little man neverwho and his deep seated psychological paranoia of being overthrown from power was the primary driver for this outlook and it was cleverly fuelled by dishonest acolytes like menon who were building their own little kingdoms.

Godse'e action may have exacerbated neverwho's emotional instability and tipped him over the edge, and his fear psychosis of the Army grew day by day. This paranoia soon manifested itself as congi policy that was followed strictly by the mafia famiglia and their slippery sardar's govt

The idea of the CDS has been kicked around in one form or the other for decades now and almost every time one service in particular managed to scuttle it using the tried and tested game plan that had worked so flawlessly for them as indeed for their babooze backers.

It was easily stymied by the politicos of the congi-commie ilk using darbaari babooze who by the simple expedient of quietly instigating one service to repeatedly and vehemently voice its misgivings in public and "using" that "fact" to scuttle and derail all debate and also to the demonstrate the inherent existence of systemic dissension among the ranks of the uniformed to the very idea of the concept of the CDS.

The vast and spontaneous out pouring of public grief, sobbing crowds lining the roads, shouting slogans of adulation and honoured praise for the departed Gen Rawat, especially along the route where the vehicle carrying his mortal remains passed by and the nation wide expression of affection and emotion at the loss, and the great respect with which Gen Rawat's passing was mourned, the likes of which had not been seen on a national scale, even during the passing of indira gandhi, left many politicos stunned and confused.

Many a BIF country would have noted with huge dismay, the high status of the Indian armed forces as personified in the hugely popular and greatly revered public image as well as, the persona of Gen Rawat who truly represented the aspirations of a globally rising India and was seen alongside a colossus like Modi, and as an integral part of his trusted team.

Regime change will not be so easy to do in India, not when the silent majority appreciates and strongly supports leaders like Modi (and Gen Rawat) and Amit Shah.

The result of the pushback at ladakh, standing unafraid at galwan despite the treacherous cheeni attack and fighting back ferociously to teach the cheeni the lesson of their lives only added to Gen Rawat's stature in the eyes of the Indian public. The reaction of the crowds in TN simply stunned the dravidians who may now be seriously wondering if separatism will be posible to pull off at all. The grieving public in TN did not even care that Gen Rawat was a "north" Indian but cared only that he was a proud and conspicuously patriotic Indian.

All this has caused the politicos and the babooze to reflect deeply and wonder how things would pan out if another publicly adored, implicitly trusted and undoubtedly honest, fair, and exalted leadership figure, with an almost cult like status like Gen Rawat were to rise again. Paki army and their generals are ever present in the minds of all Indian politicos. They forget that our culture and civilizational ethos do not give credence to the concept of a caliphate so no coup can/will ever take place in India.

One thinks that there may be efforts already under way to cut down to size such a future incumbent and reduce the status to a manageable proportion and it may be one of the reasons to divest the position of Secretary DMA from the office of the CDS and the delay in announcement as the govt gets its ducks in a row
ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2616
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ldev »

I know that Ajai Shukla is not a welcome voice on the forum and true to form this article does have a few stink bombs thrown in. But what is interesting is the extent to which Modi was/is interested in the concept of jointness and how he has been less than impressed with the quality of the military leadership. FWIW

The missing CDS: The untimely demise of the first chief of defence staff has sent the issue of joint theatres back to the start line
This changed dramatically in 2017, when the PMO stepped in to impose a clear theme for the CCC. Riding roughshod over the Integrated Defence Staff (IDS), which traditionally organised the CCC, the PMO testily ordered that discussion be centred around tri-service jointness and theaterisation.



The discussion started in the morning and continued till 4 pm. Mr Modi sat with rapt attention, allowing each commander-in-chief to speak without interruption. A key participant described it thus: “The discussion between 22 theatre commanders, all pulling in opposite directions, was utterly pedestrian. It must have been absolutely clear to the PM that the commanders had not met and had a proper discussion earlier.”



Another participant conveyed his personal impression in these words: “Modi had come with the clear intention of announcing the CDS. But the pathetic level of debate indicated that the services were not ready.” At the end of the day Modi gave directions: “The three service chiefs will stay here and talk amongst yourselves and within one month, give me six actionable points towards jointness.



The commander-in-chief of the Integrated Defence Staff (the only existing tri-service structure) put his job on the line by telling Mr Modi: “The three chiefs seldom send up contentious issues to you. Only the lowest common denominator points come to you.” The PM was reportedly shocked.




Yet, months later, there was no progress towards jointness. One of the service chiefs admitted that the PM was completely fed up with the military brass.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32226
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by chetak »

^^^^^^^

shooklaw wouldn't be privy to such information and certainly not at the alleged level of detail described.

whoever would have passed on such information, and one seriously doubts if any of the attendees would do so, would have knowingly put his job on the line for the remainder of his tenure, for this one single act of gross indiscretion.

And for what, risk everything for the dubious pleasure of talking to shooklaw so that he could blog it

pass it off as the ravings of shooklaws fevered imagination and also the deep hatred he has for this govt which has permanently banned him from ever gracing the portals of the MOD, putting paid to his long standing ambitions of becoming an arms dealer/middleman.

Theaterisation is an ongoing discussion with individual service positions already outlined in numerous position papers that the concerned service theater commander would be well aware of.

There would be some evolving discussions on inter service perceptions regarding theaterisation and that is only to be expected at this stage.

Some inter and intra service theaterisation appreciations and position papers would also be out for background and relevance. All these papers would be available to the 22 commanders and every one of them would have read and annotated.

“The discussion between 22 theatre commanders, all pulling in opposite directions, was utterly pedestrian. It must have been absolutely clear to the PM that the commanders had not met and had a proper discussion earlier.”

is pure poppycock and insulting to say the very least.

Differences are not going to be aired in front of the PM by 22 generals / equivalents "each pulling in a different direction" No way.

It would be tantamount to collective career suicide

For sure, shooklaw has been among the plastic sachets of tarra and may also have managed to liberate some high quality afghan stuff to snort and smoke
ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4053
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ArjunPandit »

chetak wrote:^^^^^^^

shooklaw wouldn't be privy to such information and certainly not at the alleged level of detail described.

whoever would have passed on such information, and one seriously doubts if any of the attendees would do so, would have knowingly put his job on the line for the remainder of his tenure, for this one single act of gross indiscretion.

And for what, risk everything for the dubious pleasure of talking to shooklaw so that he could blog it

pass it off as the ravings of shooklaws fevered imagination and also the deep hatred he has for this govt which has permanently banned him from ever gracing the portals of the MOD, putting paid to his long standing ambitions of becoming an arms dealer/middleman.

Theaterisation is an ongoing discussion with individual service positions already outlined in numerous position papers that the concerned service theater commander would be well aware of.

There would be some evolving discussions on inter service perceptions regarding theaterisation and that is only to be expected at this stage.

Some inter and intra service theaterisation appreciations and position papers would also be out for background and relevance. All these papers would be available to the 22 commanders and every one of them would have read and annotated.

“The discussion between 22 theatre commanders, all pulling in opposite directions, was utterly pedestrian. It must have been absolutely clear to the PM that the commanders had not met and had a proper discussion earlier.”

is pure poppycock and insulting to say the very least.

Differences are not going to be aired in front of the PM by 22 generals / equivalents "each pulling in a different direction" No way.

It would be tantamount to collective career suicide

For sure, shooklaw has been among the plastic sachets of tarra and may also have managed to liberate some high quality afghan stuff to snort and smoke
As most of the things with this govt, we will get the truth only long afterwards..and perhaps that is the best thing...I agree with you chetakji

as much as shookla is despicable, in past few months we have seen many such petty betties higher up. With highest respect to their service to nation and the fact that they were ready to give their lives for nation, they are not free of vanities and folly otherwise. The network of chd is well known. Let's not shoot the messenger. People want to show modi govt in bad light and are ready to go to any extent for this. My sense on this is that there is lot of fiction to some facts. But there is some fact for sure. I will bet on the Lowest common denominator than rest of the items.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

CUB article is form strategic perspective and timely.
Chetak your post in reply is superb.

Will read Shukla's article and comment.
Agree never shoot messenger for that's bias.

All I can say is the Second CDS will become precedent and job is very challenging: Ukraine Crisis and theater commands. Add Military equipment supply chain struggles.

The first among equals need to go.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Ok Shukla is substantially correct about the services point of view.
He is totally erroneous about NSA.

Let's see now that Europe summits with Nordic, Germany, and France are over.

Last month Boris Johnson visited India.

So basically Europe policy is done.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32226
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:CUB article is form strategic perspective and timely.
Chetak your post in reply is superb.

Will read Shukla's article and comment.
Agree never shoot messenger for that's bias.

All I can say is the Second CDS will become precedent and job is very challenging: Ukraine Crisis and theater commands. Add Military equipment supply chain struggles.

The first among equals need to go.
Thank you ramana ji.

Coming from you, the sentiment expressed is much appreciated.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Who comes up with this? Is this done when the next Service Chief is appointed? Why is this process being so drawn out like this?

Health key focus as serving, retired officers scanned for next CDS
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 899705.cms
31 May 2022
The broad list is expected to be pruned after a careful look at the records, particularly for cardiac related issues.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Now someone will say import lobby...
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote:Who comes up with this? Is this done when the next Service Chief is appointed? Why is this process being so drawn out like this?

Health key focus as serving, retired officers scanned for next CDS
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 899705.cms
31 May 2022
The broad list is expected to be pruned after a careful look at the records, particularly for cardiac related issues.
I know it's frustrating but there is a method in the madness.
Let us see.

Checking health records is a waste when the last CDS died in a flight accident!
CDS should be chosen for his sagacity to run the post and reasonable fitness!
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

It could be a euphemism to seek a fit individual for the post.
This means they have some long-term plans that need to be implemented and it will be stressful.
Am sure a methodical search is being done to select the right person for CDS.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32226
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:It could be a euphemism to seek a fit individual for the post.
This means they have some long-term plans that need to be implemented and it will be stressful.
Am sure a methodical search is being done to select the right person for CDS.
or, the other possibility is that there may not be (m)any takers who are willing to toe the line.
wig
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2162
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by wig »

Government widens CDS selection pool; serving or retired Lt Generals, Air Marshals and Vice Admirals to be eligible for the post
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ost-401819
07 June 2022

Government widens CDS selection pool; serving or retired Lt Generals, Air Marshals and Vice Admirals to be eligible for the post
extracted
Any serving or retired Lt General, Air Marshal and Vice Admiral under the age of 62 years will be eligible for the post of Chief of Defence Staff, according to notifications brought out by the government. The officers can be considered for the top post along with serving chiefs of the Army, Navy and the Indian Air Force, according to the amended rules which are aimed at widening the pool from which CDS can be appointed.
and
“The Central Government may, if considered necessary, in the public interest, so to do, appoint as Chief of Defence Staff, an officer who is serving as Air Marshal or Air Chief Marshal or an officer who has retired in the rank of Air Marshal or Air Chief Marshal but has not attained the age of 62 years on the date of his appointment,” the notification issued under the Air Force Act 1950 said. It further said that the government may extend the service of the Chief of Defence Staff for such a period as it may deem necessary subject to a maximum age of 65 years. Identical notifications were issued under the Army Act 1950 and the Navy Act 1957.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

FYI....Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria turned 62 on 15 Sept 2021. Based on this, I doubt he will qualify.

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... BD_G4cmFiA ---> Gazette notification amendment to Air Force Regulations, released yesterday enabling the appointment of @IAF_MCC serving or retired Air Chief Marshal/Air Marshal to be Chief of Defence Staff (CDS).

Image
SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5777
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by SBajwa »

<Mod Note: Already posted in this thread. Please see the post above mine >
Last edited by Rakesh on 07 Jun 2022 23:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post Edited
SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5777
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by SBajwa »

Is Lt. Gen Kanwaljeet singh Dhillion eligible? is he over or under 62?
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Tiny Dhillon Sir is eligible based on age. There are other factors too.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

So someone who retired at a lower rank than the Chief can be a CDS.
Way to go.
Let’s stop this charade!
And stop the khayali pulao of effectiveness of CDS. The CDS will not be effective until actions match words.
The Govt had dropped the ball. Announcing something and then operationalising something properly are two diff things.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:FYI....Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria turned 62 on 15 Sept 2021. Based on this, I doubt he will qualify.

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... BD_G4cmFiA ---> Gazette notification amendment to Air Force Regulations, released yesterday enabling the appointment of @IAF_MCC serving or retired Air Chief Marshal/Air Marshal to be Chief of Defence Staff (CDS).
Similar gazette notification has been released for Army and Navy.

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... SmyJQjQF8Q
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

They want to go past the seniority knife used to prune the system by deep selection.
Many, many good officers were put aside to promote chiefs who are arms lobby favorites.
We first heard about this in the Gen VK Singh age case.
So let us keep the outrage aside.
Yes, Gen Rawat was a unique officer.
So his batchmates tell.
Suresh S
BRFite
Posts: 857
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 22:19

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Suresh S »

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7803&p=2526746#p2526746

I predicted 6 months ago . It,s going to be Lt Gen Y.K.Joshi. let us see what happens.
konaseema
BRFite
Posts: 115
Joined: 16 Nov 2020 09:54

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by konaseema »

Lt Gen YK Joshi comes to my mind! But for superannuation, he could have made a good COAS!
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Ramana to your point 2 wrongs do not make a right.
I am not outraged but resigned….
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

Appointing a Lt Gen / Vice Admiral / Air Marshal as the next CDS, is not a good idea. Even if that three star officer has seniority (earlier commission date) over the current trio of Army, Navy and Air Chiefs...it is still not a good idea.

In the military, current rank and hierarchy are everything. This is not like selecting from a pool of Lt Gens or Vice Admirals or Air Marshals to be the next Army, Navy or Air Chief. That practice was established with the Modi Govt, but it had its share of controversies. This will be different and will open up a can of worms that is best left unopened. IMVHO, a disaster like the Tour of Duty concept.

Selecting a retired Chief, while controversial, will still be more palatable. But having the Army, Navy or Air Chief report to a three star officer (even though he will be a four star upon appointment) will not go down well.

More learned experts ---> please correct me if I am wrong.

P.S. General Manoj Mukund Naravane (retd), Admiral Karambir Singh (retd) and Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria (retd) have all crossed 62 years of age as of now. None of them will qualify as per these gazette notifications. IMO, the best option is to select from one of the three current Chiefs, regardless of how unsavory it may seem to many. I will get skewered for saying this, but Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari would be the safest bet. He is the senior most among all the three Chiefs. And promote the current VCAS - Air Marshal Sandeep Singh - to the post of Air Chief.
arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4570
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by arshyam »

Isn't the CDS supposed be a 4-star rank officer, i.e. an appointment will coincide with a promotion from 3 to 4 star? Though promoting and appointing a retired officer would be more palatable to the service chiefs as the former would most likely have seniority. Leap frogging a current 3 star officer to CDS, over the existing 4 star chiefs may not go down well.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

Thanks Admiral

People before you comment on rank and hierarchy please remember it is not related to ego only.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

arshyam wrote:Isn't the CDS supposed be a 4-star rank officer, i.e. an appointment will coincide with a promotion from 3 to 4 star? Though promoting and appointing a retired officer would be more palatable to the service chiefs as the former would most likely have seniority. Leap frogging a current 3 star officer to CDS, over the existing 4 star chiefs may not go down well.
I am a chief but I report to a guy who retired as a ltGen from the ASC or a Navy or AF equiv
arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4570
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by arshyam »

^^ Didn't get your point saar...? Especially the ASC part - why is that specifically called out?
bala
BRFite
Posts: 1975
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by bala »

I think it is more important to have a system to pick a CDS from a pool of carefully groomed candidates. The CDS office can have a sub-layer wherein 3-star (Lt-Gen, Air Marshal, Vice Admiral) are inducted. They can each be given a theatre for joint-ness and advice the CDS. From this pool they can be promoted to 4 star of their service or become CDS. Just my 2 paise.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

All this fuss is because the Theater commands were stalled for various reasons. So don't have command experience at that level.
Had the original schedule been adhered to instead of stalling, by now a very good pool would be available.
Sachin if the ASC lt gen is deemed capable so be it.
Anyway, modern war is about logistics.
Lets see how things shape up.
Again Gen Rawat was very unique.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

arshyam wrote:^^ Didn't get your point saar...? Especially the ASC part - why is that specifically called out?
He is alluding to Lt Gen B.K. Kaul who was from the ASC pool.

BTW Lt Gen S.K. Sinha who almost became the COAS wrote that Lt Gen Kaul was a great ASC officer.
In fact, it was his movement plan that was implemented in the 1965 war to move the First Armoured Division from its location.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Rakesh »

arshyam wrote:^^ Didn't get your point saar...? Especially the ASC part - why is that specifically called out?
Within the army, there is a hierarchy.

The combat arms (Infantry, Artillery, Armoured, Air Defence Corps) have an innate (but flawed) belief that supporting arms (Service Corps, Medical Corps, etc) are not really fighting units. In principle, that is true. But in practice, the army is one BIG fighting unit. All are necessary. But from that genesis of thought springs up a variety of ego and superiority/inferiority complexes. That is carried with them throughout their service and even into retirement. Even within the combat and supporting arms, there is a hierarchy. Just human nature. Nothing earth shattering. Cannot be avoided. All organizations have ego/personality clashes.

The problem is when you take this carefully laid system and flip it on its head. That is when the ego and superiority/inferiority complexes will manifest itself into scenarios that are best avoided. Imagine an Army Chief (from the Infantry Corps) having to explain to a three star ASC veteran officer (who is now a CDS and four star) on procurement matters and requiring his approval for sanction. Imagine what that Army Chief is thinking in his head and even worse what that CDS officer is thinking. This will be a disaster.

Issues that General Rawat could skillfully and tactfully (covertly) manage as CDS, will spill out into the open. Arguments will be made public. Embarrassments will happen. This will leave the Govt red faced. Easily avoidable issues.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

I mentioned ASC due to the ingrained parochialism in the armed forces. That was just an example
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ramana »

The criteria released shows that GOI is intent on capability and ensuring sufficient tenure.
Seniority is not the driver nor is rotation.

So any one thinking it's the old Chiefs of Staff in New bottle can forget it.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by ks_sachin »

ramana wrote:The criteria released shows that GOI is intent on capability and ensuring sufficient tenure.
Seniority is not the driver nor is rotation.

So any one thinking it's the old Chiefs of Staff in New bottle can forget it.
And nor is an appreciation of organisation culture.
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3800
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: CDS Appointment & Command Restructuring: News & Discussions

Post by Paul »

Gen Kaul had brought a bad name to ASC in 1962.
Post Reply