India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2020 13:52

Lets wait for a briefing, any news from Chinese outlets. We must atleast now use force to push the Chinese past finger 8

MeshaVishwas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Jun 2020 13:55

Om Shanti, disappointed with GoI for the way this news came out through twitter etc.

TushS
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby TushS » 16 Jun 2020 13:57

MeshaVishwas wrote:Om Shanti, disappointed with GoI for the way this news came out through twitter etc.

NEWS came through official IA statement.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Jun 2020 13:58

TushS wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:Om Shanti, disappointed with GoI for the way this news came out through twitter etc.

NEWS came through official IA statement.

Yes, not the right way IMO
Chinese foreign ministry is already on the offensive.
Meanwhile, we are still reactive.
:x
Last edited by MeshaVishwas on 16 Jun 2020 14:04, edited 1 time in total.

chola
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 16 Jun 2020 13:59

sum wrote:
TushS wrote:Causality on both sides.
https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/12 ... 3839755264
Two updates: Casualties on both sides (unclear what nature/numbers on Chinese side). No bullets fired, clash was with stones and clubs. Several injured. Will update.

How does one lose a colonel and 2 jawans just by stone pelting?

Am sure even Chinese side has some casualties


It wouldn't be stones from afar. Hand to hand. No way there wouldn't be cheeni casualties too.

What I fear is like Balakot where we lose our jawans and say the enemy suffered casualties too and then de-escalate. While the other side denies losing anything.

amar_p
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 16 Jun 2020 14:00

South China Morning Post reporting the same news about 3 Indian casualties during clashes last night. No word about any on their side.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3089255/three-indian-soldiers-killed-clash-chinese-border-army-says

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby habal » 16 Jun 2020 14:01

Very weak all round performance which rekindles the ghosts of 26/11 and non-response. Until now I was not taking this border conflict seriously but this changes the equation completely. India relying on border management entirely through diplomacy also negates our decades long military experience with China which talks of Chinese 5-step strategy which is taught in military schools. That the PLA came prepared to take lives during border talks also reveals our strategic naivete wrt China.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chetak » 16 Jun 2020 14:02

something is definitely up.

pull back of cheeni troops may not have taken place at the galwan valley area and this, as well as the cheeni incursions in the same area, at the insistence of the cheenis, may have been off the table during "talks".



Manu Pubby@manupubby

BREAKING: In the Galwan Valley, a violent face-off took place yesterday night with casualties. The loss of lives on the Indian side includes an officer and two soldiers. Senior military officials of the two sides are currently meeting at the venue to defuse the situation.
12:53 PM · Jun 16, 2020
Last edited by chetak on 16 Jun 2020 14:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Venkarl » 16 Jun 2020 14:02

Venkarl wrote:
Indian Army officer, 2 jawans killed in violent face-off wit ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst


The thing we need to understand here is this firing is already gamed by chinese.
We should see how GoI responds to this killing.


x-posting from neutering china thread ...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 16 Jun 2020 14:05

chola wrote:What I fear is like Balakot where we lose our jawans and say the enemy suffered casualties too and then de-escalate. While the other side denies losing anything.

Of course that is exactly what will happen. The Chinese will deny they lost anything or anyone, and nobody will be the wiser.

TODAY we need to impose an additional 6% customs duty on Chinese goods. We can call it "border infrastructure tax".

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Nihat » 16 Jun 2020 14:05

We are talking about the CO of an infantry battalion here. No response would destroy the paltan ki izzat and be used for further psy-ops.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chetak » 16 Jun 2020 14:06

Manu Pubby@manupubby

More details:

No firing took place, so this means that our soldiers were beaten to death by the Chinese on Indian territory.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Karna » 16 Jun 2020 14:07

chetak wrote:
Manu Pubby@manupubby

More details:

No firing took place, so this means that our soldiers were beaten to death by the Chinese on Indian territory.


The above statement hurts.. even if there is a better way of saying it

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Jun 2020 14:09

chetak wrote:
Manu Pubby@manupubby

More details:

No firing took place, so this means that our soldiers were beaten to death by the Chinese on Indian territory.

Oh man, this is heartbreaking.
May all their souls attain moksha.

Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2020 14:09

What is worse is that Indian and Chinese officers are meeting. It hurts even more, unfortunately it hurts even more, now we are talking.

If we do not respond it will be worse than 1962.

chola
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 16 Jun 2020 14:12

No firearms is the only reason why they are still trying to de-escalate. I can't imagine we would still be talking if the jawans were shot.

F-ing sticks and stones. Not sure how GOI would react.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 16 Jun 2020 14:12

India should destroy the bases nearest to LAC in Pangang Tso, Galwan and Hot Springs with artillery fire in simultaneous action and capture the soldiers between LAC and the bases beyond. And stop talks and sit back.

Negotiations happen from a position of strength, else its bargaining.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby shyamd » 16 Jun 2020 14:12

Clearly IA delayed the announcement Of the deaths as Maj Gen level talks have started again today. Also the announcement puts pressure on a response
Last edited by shyamd on 16 Jun 2020 14:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sooraj » 16 Jun 2020 14:13

Update: Atleast 4 PLA soldiers including 1 Officer eliminated on Chinese side.

Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2020 14:15

Feels really sad to loose our soldiers, but if we did inflict casualties, I hope someone had the sense to take some mobile pics. It will be really demoralizing if this allowed to go the F16 way.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Deans » 16 Jun 2020 14:17

Nihat wrote:We are talking about the CO of an infantry battalion here. No response would destroy the paltan ki izzat and be used for further psy-ops.


Totally agree. We succeeded in 67 at Nathu La under somewhat similar circumstances, because retaliation was immediate. If there is no retaliation, unit morale will be badly hit.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 16 Jun 2020 14:18

Aditya_V wrote:Feels really sad to loose our soldiers, but if we did inflict casualties, I hope someone had the sense to take some mobile pics. It will be really demoralizing if this allowed to go the F16 way.

As per reports it was in the night. It's a deep valley, I doubt there would be good light for any reasonable photos. Besides when there is such mayhem happening nobody is going to pull out their phones.


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nvishal » 16 Jun 2020 14:19

Gun fight happened at night so there's no way to know the casualty on the chinese side unless they reveal it but they won't. Ignore the news claims. Wait for the statement from the chinese military.
Last edited by nvishal on 16 Jun 2020 14:22, edited 1 time in total.

Karna
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Karna » 16 Jun 2020 14:20

sooraj wrote:Update: Atleast 4 PLA soldiers including 1 Officer eliminated on Chinese side.


The response needs to be disproportionate. This happened in an area which was always under our control..

Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2020 14:20

Obviously, first thing is protect your lives, after the clash when we have recover the bodies of our fallen, hope the Chinese were kicked out of the place following the clash.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby vishvak » 16 Jun 2020 14:22

amar_p wrote:India should destroy the bases nearest to LAC in Pangang Tso, Galwan and Hot Springs with artillery fire in simultaneous action and capture the soldiers between LAC and the bases beyond. And stop talks and sit back.

Negotiations happen from a position of strength, else its bargaining.

We have to be responding well .. meaning if Chinese want to drag someone to mediaeval environment then do we have to as well. Assuming we we do same thing then why can't we respond in our own way - while doing the same thing.

The Chinese made situation hasn't been as it is without preparation and by that I mean things are going on since 1950s. And we got Pakis on the other side who think Chinese will treat them better.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby jpremnath » 16 Jun 2020 14:22

sooraj wrote:Update: Atleast 4 PLA soldiers including 1 Officer eliminated on Chinese side.

Never saw this number 4 anywhere in the army statement. The army statement which came first did not talk of any casualty on the other side. Later an amended statement just added ' casualties on both sides'...

Here in this forum people were talking about liberrating Tibet!...and our commanders are trying to defuse the situation after the enemy kills our soldiers. Talk about reality check.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 16 Jun 2020 14:22

Where are they getting news of PLA casualties? What is the source? Hope its not some random twit.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 16 Jun 2020 14:23

Aditya_V wrote:Feels really sad to loose our soldiers, but if we did inflict casualties, I hope someone had the sense to take some mobile pics. It will be really demoralizing if this allowed to go the F16 way.


There is no way we wouldn't inflict casualties in what is basically hand to hand combat. But this would be easier to
hide than the F-16 unless there is video.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Jun 2020 14:23

abhik wrote:Where are they getting news of PLA casualties? What is the source? Hope its not some random twit.

Army amends statement, says "casualties suffered on both sides" in "violent face-off" during de-escalation process with China in Galwan Valley, Ladakh. https://t.co/rZAg83hr3Q

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 16 Jun 2020 14:25

Very sad. The GOI and the IA need to take this incident as an opportunity to convert the LAC into a 'hot border' like the LOC with Pakistan. I'm not recommending artillery booming and missiles streaking right away, but we can definitely start with a few sniper shots & mortar rounds interlaced with chai biskoot talks.

The more we keep trying to keep things quite on the LAC, the more the Chinks will continue with salami slicing. Only once they realize that their salamis will also be sliced if they try salami slicing, can the sanctity of the LAC be maintained.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Karna » 16 Jun 2020 14:25

abhik wrote:Where are they getting news of PLA casualties? What is the source? Hope its not some random twit.


Nothing from the army.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 16 Jun 2020 14:26

Is the IAF in the air? If not then GOI wants to seriously deescalate.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby shyamd » 16 Jun 2020 14:27

Request for talks came from PLA side at 0730 per press reports.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Nihat » 16 Jun 2020 14:29

Karna wrote:
abhik wrote:Where are they getting news of PLA casualties? What is the source? Hope its not some random twit.


Nothing from the army.


The Army has amended its original statement with 3 more words, i.e. ' on both sides' to signify that Chinese have suffered casualties too.

Though, I can completely see this going the Balakot way and it becoming a their word versus mine debate.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 16 Jun 2020 14:29

The Chinis started the drama for no particular gain. We would give the benefit, until they were talking. It is time to push them by force.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 16 Jun 2020 14:30

chola wrote:Is the IAF in the air? If not then GOI wants to seriously deescalate.


Something I was arguing on tweetar tha GoI will not use IAF unless PLAAF is involved... despite thousands of article about need to involve IAF.

However artillery should be go off. The Galwan valley is very narrow... killing zone for artillery.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 16 Jun 2020 14:31

shyamd wrote:Request for talks came from PLA side at 0730 per press reports.


They requested talks? Scared of our response?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2020 14:33

That was all fine till they attacked, now we need to push them back, force can be used now


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