India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Pashupatastra
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Pashupatastra »

Manish_Sharma wrote:
fanne wrote:personally I am no fan of give me information right now. Some of course are demanding because they have some naïve expectation of the right of being informed (as they pay taxes or know English and have computer with internet). Somewhere some think that this lack of information is putting down morale (of whom? perhaps themselves?).
But most are demanding to fulfill political objective of making Mudi look bad. You talk more, more info you put out and much of it can be then used against you, within the country and without.
Now if Information on war was something so good, why is chicom not doing it, or their friends the Pakis, or the great USA , why did not it publish the photo of abottagood? Hain ji
So what will this extra info give us - Suppose we did not kill any chicom and lost 100 of ours. Telling that to the public will do what? The only thing it will do is, opposition will mock the govts, public will be aghast and some unhinged RW (you find many here) will say we are not good enough, I am cutting my d*** and convert. If the situation was other way round, no Indian died but 100 Chinese died, we announce that, what do we get. People will say photo is doctored, in fact many of ours have died and we are hiding causality, I don't believe it, and the opposition country has no potion to counter it and further escalate, perhaps in next round we kill their 100 to our 10 or 20.
So in the end what purpose does it solve? Morale? Whose the posters or the army or the public. The army does not need your morale lesson, I think they are tough enough. Public? Thanks God not all were as highly educated as you, they can perhaps manage their morale fine even if we lost xx soldiers. Every year 90 lakh Indian die of all causes (and as many chinese) . It maybe satisfying some deep seated identification of self based on inadequacy - but that needs medicine and self retro-inspection and not news.
Giving out less, telling less and keeping your cards close to your chest, let the action speak louder than word is the way to go. That this govt is doing.

Each word of this post should be etched in Gold.

_/\_

Except for may be spelling Modi Ji as "Mudi Ji" , only the Paki trolls use that. And the derision being shown to tax paying , honest , inquisitive desh bhakts is condemnable. Do not try to impose own views as masquerade as speaking for defence forces. If Less info , maintaining secrecy and equating sharing of info. as humouring public were the best practices then USSR would not have crumbled. People do appreciate what govt. is doing but never entertain the thought that govt. , defence forces or any other body exist bereft the support of larger public.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Cyrano »

The unconfirmed explanation seems to be that when a large number of Chinese soldiers came up the mountain trail at Point 14 to join the melee, the trail gave away and lots of them fell into the ravine below. leading to many more Chinese casualties than those occurred in the fighting with stones and clubs etc.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by basant »

nam wrote:But their H&D just like the Paks doesn't allow it. They also don't want public pressure to escalate.
Sorry, what is H&D? I see it at many places in BRF but I missed the original def. :P
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Rakesh »

basant wrote:Sorry, what is H&D? I see it at many places in BRF but I missed the original def. :P
Honor & Dignity
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by abhik »

NRao wrote:
abhik wrote:
One hopes Planet Inc will oblige with images tomorrow (Twitter influencers please request Planet :) ).
Oh. BTW, Planet Labs charges a decent amount for each picture.
Oh no doubt sir, but I believe they are giving out images of hotspots to media and select twitteratti pro bono (marketing rather).
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by yensoy »

amar_p wrote:The unconfirmed explanation seems to be that when a large number of Chinese soldiers came up the mountain trail at Point 14 to join the melee, the trail gave away and lots of them fell into the ravine below. leading to many more Chinese casualties than those occurred in the fighting with stones and clubs etc.
Well we do have God on our side! :D
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by basant »

Rakesh wrote:
basant wrote:Sorry, what is H&D? I see it at many places in BRF but I missed the original def. :P
Honor & Dignity
Ah! Couldn't have guessed it in 100 years! :lol:
Thanks!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Cyrano »

I'm not demanding that GOI put out a greatly detailed account of what exactly happened to satisfy the curiosity of citizen. In a situation like this, there could be good reasons to withhold such information.

That said, I would like to see GOI "using" the information more actively to set the narrative (domestically and internationally) with a purpose. I don't see them doing it at the moment.

If you don't give out ANY information you are not engaging in information warfare.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

amar_p wrote:I'm not demanding that GOI put out a greatly detailed account of what exactly happened to satisfy the curiosity of citizen. In a situation like this, there could be good reasons to withhold such information.

That said, I would like to see GOI "using" the information more actively to set the narrative (domestically and internationally) with a purpose. I don't see them doing it at the moment.

If you don't give out ANY information you are not engaging in information warfare.
India already has all the international support it needs & classified information can be communicated to allies in a discreet manner. IMO GOI is doing a great job communicating. They are communicating casualty numbers & preparing the country for war.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

amar_p wrote:The unconfirmed explanation seems to be that when a large number of Chinese soldiers came up the mountain trail at Point 14 to join the melee, the trail gave away and lots of them fell into the ravine below. leading to many more Chinese casualties than those occurred in the fighting with stones and clubs etc.
Is there anyone who is talking about landslides other than Abhijit Iyer-Mitra?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Cyrano »

yensoy wrote:
amar_p wrote:The unconfirmed explanation seems to be that when a large number of Chinese soldiers came up the mountain trail at Point 14 to join the melee, the trail gave away and lots of them fell into the ravine below. leading to many more Chinese casualties than those occurred in the fighting with stones and clubs etc.
Well we do have God on our side! :D
Actually it seems that we do. And "Shani dev" seems to be on their side:
This massive loss of life has definitely put China in an embarrassment irrespective of how it happened.
+ Covid-19 2.0 has reared its head in Beijing and other major cities at the same time.
+ China managed to piss of major trade partners like Australia, US
+ unrest in HongKong.
+ Taiwan doing a great job in containing Covid and getting international attention.
+ Belt and Road going no where
+ trade war with US with a raging lunatic POTUS
+ blame for Covid
+ exports hit, economy in recession
+ Uighur atrocities getting attention
+ its poodle Pakistan on FATF grey list and on the verge of bankruptcy
+ Heuwei getting thrown out of 5G deals
+ Deshbhakt Indian PM with massive majority and public support
...

Xi's cup is runneth over.

Do we need a better muhurat to settle scores? :mrgreen:
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Lohit »

sooraj wrote:Maj Gen (Dr)GD Bakshi SM,VSM(retd)
@GeneralBakshi
·
55m
Western Theatre Command of China has admitted to 30 Killed in the Galwan clash- 1 major 2 captains, 4Lts and 23 soldiers. Kudos to our brave Col and His boys of 16 Bihar- Our salute
Seems this is fake news -

https://www.altnews.in/times-now-falls- ... -soldiers/

Bakshi sab should have known better, it is important that our leaders like him dont falls such things which ultimately end up creating a permanently "discredited" image like Pakistan.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by RaviB »

Sanju wrote:#Chinese Casualties

Vikas Saraswat @VikasSaraswat
Chinese social media is abuzz with the talk of 90 casualties on their side.
I checked Weibo. Nobody there seems to have a clue of the numbers. The information has probably been censored.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by sanjaykumar »

What is the situation in Nathu La? Is it being heavily fortified? An Indian build up there would imply that India is preparing to cut off the Chumbi valley. It would indicate a profound resolve on India's part.

This may be doable and also have the cover of rightful ownership, having been gifted to Tibet (not China) in 1908.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by RaviB »

People on Chinese social media are relying on DrAPR psyops account :D

Image
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by putnanja »

Altnews is a known left leaning site that was caught by many on SM for classifying unrelated incidents as hate crimes against Muslims & downplaying deliberate attack’s against Hindus as not hate crime . It’s by no means an unbiased fact checker.

Lohit wrote:
sooraj wrote:Maj Gen (Dr)GD Bakshi SM,VSM(retd)
@GeneralBakshi
·
55m
Western Theatre Command of China has admitted to 30 Killed in the Galwan clash- 1 major 2 captains, 4Lts and 23 soldiers. Kudos to our brave Col and His boys of 16 Bihar- Our salute
Seems this is fake news -

https://www.altnews.in/times-now-falls- ... -soldiers/

Bakshi sab should have known better, it is important that our leaders like him dont falls such things which ultimately end up creating a permanently "discredited" image like Pakistan.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by stephen »

So in all these, where is our RW NGO's ? Shiv Sena, VHP, Shri Ram Sene and a whole host of forgotten organisations who are so good at raising such hue and cry over matters like valentine's day or some stupid movies. Why are they not on the street setting fire to chinese products, breaking a few vivo or oppo or MG garage window panes! They should have been all over the major cities of the country and extensively covered by the media and SM. That would have shown the world that the whole of India is now totally turning against the Chinese and a chinese product boycott is now imminent, images of the boycott and swadeshi movement during the fight for independence should should be added so that there would be recognition of a great event happening in India and the whole world media will be discussing it.
This is the only way the Chinese would realize that India is completely slipping away from their sphere of profitable market for their goods, with the incident at the border already giving them an indication that militarily the time is slipping away from them to subdue India.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

Chinese will not release casualty figures, I was actually surprised to see something attributed to them. The best we can hope to get is some statement from GOI about the number of bodies handed over & estimates based on ambulances, helicopters, satellite intercepts. Chinese will not say how many they lost & anyone waiting will be waiting a long time.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Ambar »

Lohit wrote:
sooraj wrote:Maj Gen (Dr)GD Bakshi SM,VSM(retd)
@GeneralBakshi
·
55m
Western Theatre Command of China has admitted to 30 Killed in the Galwan clash- 1 major 2 captains, 4Lts and 23 soldiers. Kudos to our brave Col and His boys of 16 Bihar- Our salute
Seems this is fake news -

https://www.altnews.in/times-now-falls- ... -soldiers/

Bakshi sab should have known better, it is important that our leaders like him dont falls such things which ultimately end up creating a permanently "discredited" image like Pakistan.
Altnews ? Really ? They are a known marxist-extreme left psyops site that constantly peddles lies against the government and India under the garb of "fact checking". Look up the founders of altnews and their family history and you'll know what i mean.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by RKumar »

RaviB wrote:People on Chinese social media are relying on DrAPR psyops account :D
Be careful what you post from Chinkistan, take all possible care to cover your tracks. It is important to get feel of that closed country. Keep up the good work!!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by darshan »

stephen wrote:So in all these, where is our RW NGO's ? Shiv Sena, VHP, Shri Ram Sene
Wrong thread and wrong characterization. Shiv Sena is not RW and not NGO.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by ranneel »

^^ People on Chinese social media are relying on DrAPR psyops account :D
Dr APR is a wonderful psyops account. :mrgreen:
abhik
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by abhik »

Some interesting "RF Intelligence" capabilities in the commercial domain (one can only imagine what major militaries have)
HawkEye 360
@hawkeye360
·
4h
Chinese military buildup is escalating India border tensions. HawkEye 360 detected increased RF activity along the Galwan River Valley on May 29 and tasked
@planetlabs
' SkySat satellites to confirm the suspected military buildup. Highlighting RF GEOINT’s value. #IndiaChinaFaceOff
Image
And here is an annotated map by RV saar
Image
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Philip »

Time to pull out of the upcoming Rus-Sino-Indo online meet scheduled shortly,the reason? Inappropriate (latest news is that that is has been postponed) ,in view of Chinese aggressoon. India should now publicly invite the Taiwanese to "dinner",to discuss the best way to "cook" Beijing Duck ,aka XI Gin Pig and other Chin delicacies.A mutual agreement to open a Taiwanese restaurant in Delhi with an Indian one in Taipei must be signed. The "Red China" canteen can suck their thumb,bite their nails, chew cockroaches and sulk for all we care at the competition from Taipei ,and can pack up and leave if they wish!

Media featured the PM giving China his "sternest " warning, "befitting reply" et al. Every time I hear that phrase uttered,at least over a thousand times over the last few years,I feel like puking. We've been waiting for decades for the " befitting reply" from the attack on the Indian p' ment
to date. We've heard these same words being used against Pak for years from a galaxy of ministers,babus,flunkeys of all parties in power.Has Pak changed an iota in its terror strategy?
Will China crawl under the table in fear of the PM's words? Will XI now trumpet the retreat? Let's not kid ourselves.Our Indian establishment is heavy on hot air and light on the lathi when it comes to punishing Pak and China. At least Pak has on a few occasions felt the lathi on its backside, but we still have not avenged the Mumbai massacre of 26/11! We should've blitzed Karachi years ago in return. This is unfinished business that must not be forgotten.

The time for talking is well and truly over.China cannot and will not cow down to India.On the contrary it wants us to do so. Sat pics and other intel clearly show that China has planned and intruded ready for war. AA guns,SAMs,arty, heavy mortars,tactical missiles,missiles, battle tanks,ICVs,helos et al with at least 2 brigades of troops sent into the Galwan sector,based upon our reaction at Doklam,ready for war which it is instigating,needling India into by these carefully planned operations to catch us off balance. Mao famously said that " a loud fart is better than a long speech." Sadly our MEA,etc. has been too long-winded forgetting that the Chinese use deception time and time again in its strategy and tactics to get what it wants. One chief reason for the predicament we are in is the deliberate EXCLUSION of the armed forces in MOD / MEA decision- making process, which scores of senior-most service officers have bemaoned about for decades.
Years ago ehen Gen.Rodrigues,the then army chief said that Pak was only an irritation but China was our most dangerous enemy,he was pilloried by both the politicians and babudom. He spoke from the hip and has been proven a true prophet today. Sadly, we have lost 20+ soldiers in the bargain.We may lose many more before we bring the situation to our satisfaction.A complete about turn in our China policy is required,otherwise our gallant martyrs would've died in vain.

PS: Eco sanctions are supposedly on the anvil,but they cannot be token or just a knee- jerk reaction as N.Ram has said on a channel.Ram has also cautioned the Opposition and Congress in trashing the govt. at this time but to be sober,support the govt., ,while the govt. should share details in greater detail with the Opposition,perhaps on the 19th.
Last edited by Philip on 18 Jun 2020 01:12, edited 2 times in total.
Interstellar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Interstellar »

Just in.

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 50689?s=20 ----> India has engaged in border disputes with China, Pakistan and Nepal at the same time. If India escalates tensions, it could face military pressure from two or even three fronts, so the situation is unlikely to escalate: experts
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Mollick.R »

GOBAR TIMES

India has engaged in border disputes with China, Pakistan and Nepal at the same time. If India escalates tensions, it could face military pressure from two or even three fronts, so the situation is unlikely to escalate: experts
https://bit.ly/2UVKqJb
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by nam »

GT is really fearing an escalation.

Just today, so far I have seen atom bomb, rocket force, chopper, article on china boycott, trade with india, threat about india millitary not as powerful as china etc...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Rakesh »

Interstellar wrote:Just in.

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 50689?s=20 ----> India has engaged in border disputes with China, Pakistan and Nepal at the same time. If India escalates tensions, it could face military pressure from two or even three fronts, so the situation is unlikely to escalate: experts
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

nam wrote:GT is really fearing an escalation.

Just today, so far I have seen atom bomb, rocket force, chopper, article on china boycott, trade with india, threat about india millitary not as powerful as china etc...
It could all be an act to buy time, get more troops & acclimatize them. Xi can control *everything* in China. I wouldn't put it past him to try to lull the Indian side into a false sense of confidence.

IMO, India should be making decisions based on the situation on the ground & not rely on anything from Chinese FM, Chinese military commander, signaling in Chinese media - or anything from Xi himself - they could all be lying through their teeth. It means absolutely nothing.
Last edited by Rakesh on 18 Jun 2020 01:21, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: No Foul Language Allowed
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Mort Walker »

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Each word of this post should be etched in Gold.

_/\_

Thanks for clarity of thought.
If that is the case, then there is no reason to have this forum. Might as well go through social media. The point of all of this is to piece together an accurate picture from publicly available information. People posts all sorts of disinformation or half-information on Twitter. Some posters like ldev put up useful maps of where this incident occurred. It was unclear until later as to the order of battle on the Indian side and we still don't know accurately what the order of battle is on the Chinese side. Before making any analysis or even opinion just asking for publicly available information gets derision from some posters.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Philip »

Twitter is now being accused of censoring anti- Chin posts! See how China is attempting to win the propagxnda war.We can win it by nation-wide protests,burning of Chin goods,effigies of XI ,and x sustained campaign to rid India of the Chin presence. Sadly we have some quislings, dumplings, on our side too..These vested interests must be exposed and marginalised...

Former reputed diplomat Nirupama Rao has made 2 v.important points.When Rajiv G went yo Beijing,Deng Tsiao Peng told him the the " Asian century would be incomplete without India." She said that today there is NO mention of India by china at all.So much for Modiji's China outreach! The second point was that the Chinese neanderthal tdctics on Sunday night was exactly the same in ' 69
when the Chinese clashed with the Soviets over a territorial dispute in the Ussuri river regiion. There too the Chinese attacked a Soviet army patrol who came to inspect the situ on thv ground.We need to learn from history.
Last edited by Philip on 18 Jun 2020 01:29, edited 1 time in total.
nam
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by nam »

khan wrote:
nam wrote:GT is really fearing an escalation.

Just today, so far I have seen atom bomb, rocket force, chopper, article on china boycott, trade with india, threat about india millitary not as powerful as china etc...
It could all be an act to buy time, get more troops & acclimatize them. That f***ker Xi can control *everything* in China. I wouldn't put it past him to try to lull the Indian side into a false sense of confidence.

IMO, India should be making decisions based on the situation on the ground & not rely on anything from Chinese FM, Chinese military commander or signaling in Chinese media. It means absolutely nothing.
GT is some timepass rag for the CCP. The Chinese spokesperson was clueless when media person asked him about the clashes yesterday. The CCP & PLA games don't reach these jokers.

Chances are the GT editor heard about the clashes from twitter itself! :rotfl:

The real mouth piece is the People's Daily, which is in Chinese.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

Philip wrote:Twitter is now being accused of censoring anti- Chin posts! See how China is attempting to win the propagxnda war.We can win it by nation-wide protests,burning of Chin goods,effigies of XI ,and x sustained campaign to rid India of the Chin presence. Sadly we have some quislings, dumplings, on our side too..These vested interests must be exposed and marginalised.
This will all be pointless and create unnecessary law and order problems in the middle of a war. Not to mention spread the Coronavirus in the middle of a pandemic. The thing to do now, is carry on as usual as much as possible & keep the economy going as much as possible so GOI can pay for this war.
Last edited by khan on 18 Jun 2020 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Cain Marko »

So why is Modiji waiting for 4 more days before addressing the nation? What are they putting into place until that time? 21st is solar eclipse followed by devguru brihaspati transit to war sign dhanu in utrarashada - final victory?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Interstellar »

Rakesh wrote:
Interstellar wrote:Just in.

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 50689?s=20 ----> India has engaged in border disputes with China, Pakistan and Nepal at the same time. If India escalates tensions, it could face military pressure from two or even three fronts, so the situation is unlikely to escalate: experts
Please change your username to a human sounding one. If you are unable to do so, please advise and I will change it for you.
Newbie here. Please advise how I can change it. Couldn't PM you.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by RKumar »

There is a possibility of China-Pakistan might sign the Joint Defense Treaty as Chene don't have guts to fight us directly.
Last edited by RKumar on 18 Jun 2020 01:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Rakesh »

Interstellar wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Please change your username to a human sounding one. If you are unable to do so, please advise and I will change it for you.
Newbie here. Please advise how I can change it. Couldn't PM you.
What username would you like Sir? I will change it for you.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Vivasvat »

RKumar wrote:There is a possibility of China-Pakistan might sign the Joint Defense Treaty as Chene don't have guts to fight us directly.
naPakis must be salivating at this thought.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Philip »

Ha!Ha! No point in debating the uninformed. The options of seizing alternative territory as bargaining chips is one option.I would prefer seizing Chinese tankers and MVs in the IOR,off H'tota too to send a message to pro- ChinaSL pres.Goat-abhaya Rajapakse that H'tota should not become a de- facto Chin base.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by RKumar »

Vivasvat wrote:
RKumar wrote:There is a possibility of China-Pakistan might sign the Joint Defense Treaty as Chene don't have guts to fight us directly.
naPakis must be salivating at this thought.
But they don't know that naPaki are cowards themselves :rotfl: but will be happy to earn some money.
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