India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Jun 2020 14:50

chandrasekaran wrote:If and when our armed forces are allowed to retaliate, I would like to see the Airforce start the first wave of attack, notwithstanding the "controlled escalation nonsense". The last we want is a Kargil redux.

So what is your strategic objective and how the IAF feed into that?
I am not saying you are wrong but want to see how much you have thought of this.
If you cannot give a reasonable response the kindly do what Hari Nair Sir has suggested a few pages ago...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 18 Jun 2020 14:58

From the twitter link posted above, if you follow

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/satellite-images-show-positions-surrounding-deadly-china-india-clash/

there is a lot of detail about Indian and Chinese positions built up recently. Despite assertions that we have matched up Chinese mobilisation on the LAC, it is the mobilisation on Chinese side a few kms behind the LAC which is the threat. This involved construction of several structures, shelters, vehicle parks perhaps material and ammunition dumps etc. From these bases, they equip and send patrols, with sufficient strength to rotate patrol teams not sufficiently acclimatised, and acclimatise a lot more soldiers. The fact that we have lot of acclimatised soldiers is a temporary advantage that is more or less gone by now.

<<< My deductions>>>
Image

I suspect our night patrol to Point 14 at night must have seen perhaps for the first time, the true extent of Chinese mobilisation, from a vantage point that gives them a clear line of sight of a few kms into the Chinese side of Galwan river. The lights from the structures, vehicles were a dead give away. They might have climbed higher to get a better look and seen even more of the activity at night. They discovered a tent etc which they immediately destroyed and set fire to, attracting a large group of Chinese troops to rush to the spot. The CO Col Babu leading from the front may have even confronted the Chinese about this having been part of deescalation talks earlier. Realising Indian patrol troop has seen what they have seen, Chinese troops must have decided that can't get back to report this and attacked them. We know the rest.

Indian Army HQ and intelligence agencies would have had this information as well, from our own or other satellites, but its not clear how much of that real time data was given to the CO. Perhaps it was, and that why our troops went and confronted the Chinese troops about it. Perhaps it wasn't but they found out during night patrolling, since the terrain, features and perhaps some camouflage would make it hard to spot during day.
<<< /My deductions>>>

Image
Either way, China's duplicity and devious methods are out in the open for all to see, not just in Galwan but also at Pangong Tso, Hot Springs.

Indian agencies can easily compare successive satellite images to determine the exact sequence and timelines of how the buildups started and progressed, which can tell them the nature of the structures, the capacity and constraints China has to realise such build ups, the equipment and troops they have mobilised in quantity, type, capacity, and so on.

IMO, we don't need to bring (back) more troops to the LAC now, because we have a long list of GPS coordinates to feed into Litening pods and other such standoff systems.... :mrgreen:
Last edited by Cyrano on 18 Jun 2020 15:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Pashupatastra » 18 Jun 2020 15:00

khan wrote:Couple of points regarding this horrible mutilation:
  • This mutilation and torture is highly inflammatory, but keep in mind that by many accounts the Chinese lost 2-3X the number of people as compared to India, so this could be a discipline issue on their side (and not something that was pre-planned).
  • If this was pre-planned, it is happening in a place & time that the Chinese have picked. If India were to retaliate, here and now, the Chinese might have advantages here (like artillery dug in etc). It might be better to escalate elsewhere as a revenge for this as opposed to escalating here where the Chinese might want an escalation and be trying to provoke an escalation.


MEA has confirmed and issued a statement that it was premeditated . So , why doubt if it was spur of the moment or planned ? What is surprising is after many months of services chiefs continuously reiterating and issuing statement on readiness for 2 front war , it should not have taken so much time to initiate response . Was Cold start only meant for Pakistan or did we always assume that war would start on Western front and then followed by eastern front ?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Deans » 18 Jun 2020 15:02

somdev wrote:Some guys here are hell bent on proving Modiji is sacrosanct. I know I will be banned for this but I have given notice to admins already to quit.

Remember nobody is indispensible in front of nation. Nation is first and foremost and it takes a certain amount of emotional connect to wage wars for 'ATMA SAMMAN'. Indira Gandhi with frugal resources delivered 1971 by way of leadership and statemanship. If Modiji and his team cannot deliver then they have to go - that is power of democracy. BTW, I am no way a Congress fan!


And who would you prefer as your wartime leader ?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 18 Jun 2020 15:03

https://twitter.com/FrontalAssault1/sta ... 97600?s=09

These Chinki MoFo ******** used thermal scanners in drones to hunt down our unarmed jawans !!
This is not military war - this is pure hate and barbarism.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 18 Jun 2020 15:04

I am all for a calculated and rational response than an immediate one dictated by emotions.

But this situation is very different than the LOC. The troop levels there are locked in place with very large formations on both sides after decades of fire. Things don't change there in 11 days.

The equation on the LAC though had traditionally saw far more of our troops on the scale than theirs. The chinis had gone cheap here in the past trying to profit from a situation (converse to the LOC) where no shots were fired for decades. (We could have punished them severely during Doklam when they had 20K troops in Tibet versus the 250K plus we had.)

Now, each day we wait on action in the LAC means the equation changes. You can see reports now that they are pouring troops in. There are no longer just the three brigades in Tibet anymore I pointed out before.

Unlike the LOC, the longer we wait the less likely the chance of of response IMHO. I'm coming to terms that if we don't act soon then the calculus will change so much that a response is not worth it anymore. The way the 43 to 20 score is being bandied about now, I think it will become too enticing a narrative and I fear we'll settle for a victory that way.
Last edited by chola on 18 Jun 2020 15:06, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 18 Jun 2020 15:05

nam wrote: The interesting thing I find about the whole standoff is we have public satellite images of chinese ICV, trucks and even artillery.

There is none of Indian build up.. Either we are really good at artillery placement (should be given the decades of fire fights in LoC) or the Chinese are showing their lack of experience...


Correct me if I'm wrong...If the enemy is superior in artillery and if we know that the enemy will attack first, would it make sense to lay out all our hardware in the open so that it can be destroyed in the first shot from the enemy's side? Wouldn't it be better that we allow them to arrange their pieces to fire the first shots and then as they are arranged like that, use our jets to bomb out their artillery and logistics and only AFTER THAT move in our artillery pieces, hardware and forces using the chinooks/C130s/C17? So in the first few hours, if there is any requirement for fire support, in the absence/shortage of arty the IAF gunships/jets/Brahmos missiles can supplement as arty. So maybe this is why we are seeing a lighter presence on the Indian side when compared to the Chinese, who are busy stuffing themselves up into our pre designated kill boxes...like morons!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Lohit » 18 Jun 2020 15:10

What might be some other ways we might exert pressure on China to build leverage against the Chinese? I will try and list a few,

1. I think the softest targets will be Chinese expats in Pak. The fact that there are a bunch of Chinese expats in Balochistan as well as Karachi present themselves as soft targets.

2. Creating documentaries to reflect the inhumane nature of CCP and getting major social media influencers to socialize it - there are many themes such as organ harvesting, muslim holocaust, bio weapons, racism against Africans, human genome experiments etc - investing 100 Cr in such a project and leveraging our film making expertise with western faces will add pressure; this should ideally help build pressure on western governments to distance themselves from trading with China

3. Influencing a developing country to "nationalize" Chinese assets: Right now Chinese have influenced heavily in a bunch of developing countries and these countries are now feeling pressured due to Chinas debt trap economics. Plus anti-China feelings are running high, 3 Chinese for instance were burned alive in Zambia recently. If one nation nationalised Chinese assets, it could trigger a domino of other such moves and make BRI stillborn. Indian lawyers should advocate the case of such nationalizations in WTO for "free"

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajo » 18 Jun 2020 15:11

Modiji in his address clearly said "मारते मारते मरे है..", [they were killed while killing..]cannot be any more direct a confirmation than that. I would rather it be a cold-calculated and brutal revenge than do something when they are expecting it the most. For now, soft blockades would do. Would rather start broadcasting the virtues of Democracy from All India Radio Chinese Service 24x7, peaceful ways to bring about People's rule, Gandhi's speeches, Mandela etc.. Let them think we are not capable of anything but soft pushback (for now). From my limited interaction with Chinese customers, they all seem pretty content with the way things are, and in no way expect anything in the way of democracy. The overthrow, if at all, would be in the form of an internal power struggle only, no hopes of having a people's movement anytime soon.
Last edited by sajo on 18 Jun 2020 15:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chandrasekaran » 18 Jun 2020 15:14

ks_sachin wrote:
chandrasekaran wrote:If and when our armed forces are allowed to retaliate, I would like to see the Airforce start the first wave of attack, notwithstanding the "controlled escalation nonsense". The last we want is a Kargil redux.

So what is your strategic objective and how the IAF feed into that?
I am not saying you are wrong but want to see how much you have thought of this.
If you cannot give a reasonable response the kindly do what Hari Nair Sir has suggested a few pages ago...


The objective is to eliminate all the permanent structures, construction, men and material that remains on areas on which there was an agreement to scale back.

There was an agreement to mutually move back.
One side not only reneged on that but attacked and killed in cold blood unarmed soldiers who went there only to verify. Now is the time to enforce that agreement. As simple as that.

A single overwhelming response to cold blooded murder of unarmed people. Let them escalate if they want to.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 15:15

sajaym wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong...If the enemy is superior in artillery and if we know that the enemy will attack first, would it make sense to lay out all our hardware in the open so that it can be destroyed in the first shot from the enemy's side? Wouldn't it be better that we allow them to arrange their pieces to fire the first shots and then as they are arranged like that, use our jets to bomb out their artillery and logistics and only AFTER THAT move in our artillery pieces, hardware and forces using the chinooks/C130s/C17? So in the first few hours, if there is any requirement for fire support, in the absence/shortage of arty the IAF gunships/jets/Brahmos missiles can supplement as arty. So maybe this is why we are seeing a lighter presence on the Indian side when compared to the Chinese, who are busy stuffing themselves up into our pre designated kill boxes...like morons!


The PLA may have more 155MM SPH, however we have lots more towed artillery. SPH can only go in well laid areas or places where there are roads. Towed artillery can be deployed on reverse slopes providing better protection against counter battery fire. And being smaller, easier to hide.

One can argue truck based artillery is similar to towed artillery.. I cannot say with authority if that would be the case.

PLA doesn't seem to have modern towed artillery. It has got D30, which is a field gun and doesn't have high angle fire.

It is not easy to hit targets on reverse slope in mountains. That is what the Chinis will be hitting. While our targets are on the open flat areas...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby dnivas » 18 Jun 2020 15:16

Larry Walker wrote:One will not find a more hardcore Modi and nationalist government supporter than me in my entire circle. But I am calling out what I am seeing. If China can make an official claim that Galwan valley belongs to them, why is our MEA response so weak ? We should have atleast called out that entire AC and Shaksgam valley is ours including Galwan and China here is the hegemonistic occupier. Our response is ? Pls do not make claims that are untenable !! So let me ask, what is a tenable claim ?? Why this hangover of alway being the good boy ??


do you want him to go to the front with a club. what will you do ? Can you lay out some ideas different from what our PM proposed?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 18 Jun 2020 15:17

Pls go and tell the families of those unarmed brave hearts who were hunted and barbarically assaulted by these ******** Chinks and thrown down into the river on how you plan to retaliate and avenge and see their reaction.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 18 Jun 2020 15:21

dnivas wrote:do you want him to go to the front with a club. what will you do ? Can you lay out some ideas different from what our PM proposed?


This front and place was open and available for an all arms combined offensive for India - we lost our bravehearts, but culling the Chicoms in some numbers would have sent out a loud and clear message that they will meet their fate if they cross the line. What is the meaning of place and time of out choosing ?? Have we not matched their build-up in Galwan area ?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 15:22

It is not PLA's artillery that I am really concerned about.

The first mass of rocket attacks, which will put our positions in disarray for a while, before we get a grip. We can manage this by dispersing our positions as much as possible. But these rockets will hit our bridges, nothing we can do about it. We just need to counter fire on their bridges.

But more important is their SAM network. This is the Tier 1 threat for me. We need to get some kit from the Americans or Israeli to overcome the Chini mobile SAM.
Last edited by nam on 18 Jun 2020 15:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby dnivas » 18 Jun 2020 15:22

Those unarmed rules were implemented way before Modi came to power, why blame him
Looks like the ROE's have now been changed. Do you expect him to know the details of what's happening in the front. He can only respond to what advice he has been given. Imahine all these days he has been given the advice, that negotiations have been going on and everything will be back to normal. Are you expecting him to countermand that given advice , catch a lorry to the front and see for himself.
Let's wait and see what happens now. don't give yourself a heartache and support the forces and the govt now

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 18 Jun 2020 15:23

chola wrote:I am all for a calculated and rational response than an immediate one dictated by emotions.


Right, and a calculated, rational response would be to destroy any and all structures and intrusions that have crossed to our side of the LAC alignment WE claim. I suspect there are no real AD systems in this zone. Simultaneous air strikes at Pangang Tso, Galwan, Hotsprings wherever they have done something beyond our line of claim of LAC. In 6 hrs start to finish.

Start the first wave at 0200 Beijing time and wrap up by 0800 hrs. Conduct a world wide televised briefing immediately stating that we have carried out punitive and preemptive strikes to repulse Chinese aggression and bring sustained peace and tranquility to the region. Offer cease fire, and resumption of talks. Warn that any further action or retaliation by China will force India to go up the escalation ladder to target Chinese air bases across LAC with further strikes not limited to Air power alone.

The dragon will scream. The Pakis will wet their pyjamas. The world will stand with us.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby darshan » 18 Jun 2020 15:29

As India rises as a civilization, many incidences are going to be more frequent. From naxals, Islamic terrorists, to killings at borders. All ROEs need to be revisited. If there's any lesson to be learned from this, then this is the one. Especially given the sell out nature of nehru family.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby vishvak » 18 Jun 2020 15:34

It's not same as pukis murdering 'east pakistan' people mainly hindu Bangladeshi so we gotta give some time to take correct steps and watch GoI decisions.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RamSuresh » 18 Jun 2020 15:37

Can I request the Mods to have more censorship on posts in this thread. For novices like me it is becoming difficult to segregate real substance.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Pashupatastra » 18 Jun 2020 15:37

dnivas wrote:
Larry Walker wrote:One will not find a more hardcore Modi and nationalist government supporter than me in my entire circle. But I am calling out what I am seeing. If China can make an official claim that Galwan valley belongs to them, why is our MEA response so weak ? We should have atleast called out that entire AC and Shaksgam valley is ours including Galwan and China here is the hegemonistic occupier. Our response is ? Pls do not make claims that are untenable !! So let me ask, what is a tenable claim ?? Why this hangover of alway being the good boy ??


do you want him to go to the front with a club. what will you do ? Can you lay out some ideas different from what our PM proposed?


What happened to cold start strategy or was it meant only for Pakistan ? Sadly , as of now PM has not proposed anything concrete but given a hope for revenge. The Pakis may be buffoons but they understood the value of retaliating within a day on 28 Feb after Balakot. Even if their plan did not come off , they did make a statement. The Indian leadership should have a sense of timing as China is craftier than Pak. No body is expecting PM to take a club and go to Ladakh. But , it would seem ludicrous to talk about any other issue when media is sharing the photos of our martyrs. We need a clod start for China too.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 15:38

I really really hope, GoI has OFB, Tata BF & L&T are been told to go 24/7 in 155MM artillery production.

And get those MRSAM out now.

If the LAC go live, it is given Paks will attack us..If not to invade, but create stand off attack to keep us occupied on West.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aarvee » 18 Jun 2020 15:40

Pashupatastra wrote:
dnivas wrote:
do you want him to go to the front with a club. what will you do ? Can you lay out some ideas different from what our PM proposed?


What happened to cold start strategy or was it meant only for Pakistan ? Sadly , as of now PM has not proposed anything concrete but given a hope for revenge. The Pakis may be buffoons but they understood the value of retaliating within a day on 28 Feb after Balakot. Even if their plan did not come off , they did make a statement. The Indian leadership should have a sense of timing as China is craftier than Pak. No body is expecting PM to take a club and go to Ladakh. But , it would seem ludicrous to talk about any other issue when media is sharing the photos of our martyrs. We need a clod start for China too.


Cold start was for desert warfare with tanks. Do you see that happening on LAC? Anything radical/unplanned will result in errors and more avoidable deaths. Trust your Govt and Army. Have patience.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 18 Jun 2020 15:42

Again, no better revenge than taking back GB and PoK and AC right now. There will be legitimacy that we are taking back territory that was annexed from us and at the same time destroy this CPEC dream. Anything else short of this objective will be humiliating the sacrifices of our martyrs on both the fronts.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Lohit » 18 Jun 2020 15:50

Pashupatastra wrote:
dnivas wrote:
do you want him to go to the front with a club. what will you do ? Can you lay out some ideas different from what our PM proposed?


What happened to cold start strategy or was it meant only for Pakistan ? Sadly , as of now PM has not proposed anything concrete but given a hope for revenge. The Pakis may be buffoons but they understood the value of retaliating within a day on 28 Feb after Balakot. Even if their plan did not come off , they did make a statement. The Indian leadership should have a sense of timing as China is craftier than Pak. No body is expecting PM to take a club and go to Ladakh. But , it would seem ludicrous to talk about any other issue when media is sharing the photos of our martyrs. We need a clod start for China too.


What happened to cold start strategy or was it meant only for Pakistan ? Sadly , as of now PM has not proposed anything concrete but given a hope for revenge. The Pakis may be buffoons but they understood the value of retaliating within a day on 28 Feb after Balakot. Even if their plan did not come off , they did make a statement. The Indian leadership should have a sense of timing as China is craftier than Pak. No body is expecting PM to take a club and go to Ladakh. But , it would seem ludicrous to talk about any other issue when media is sharing the photos of our martyrs. We need a clod start for China too.[/quote]

Mr PP, rather than breast-beating, why dont you structure your post as: I feel our Gov and IA should belatedly have a cold start doctrine aimed at China, (give reason of why you conclusively feel we dont have it, even though it would usually be top secret even if it did exist).

Then, offer constructive suggestions - here is how the divisions, armament platforms and tech should be integrated to form a battle group that is adept at high altitude warfare, aimed specifically to counter PLA divisions in that area...

Rn a lot of your posts sound like gup-shup at local theka or pan shop.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 18 Jun 2020 15:52

nam wrote: It is not easy to hit targets on reverse slope in mountains.


Maybe someone's already taken that into account...

Brahmos Block III has advanced guidance and upgraded software, incorporating high manoeuvres at multiple points and steep dive from high altitude. The steep dive capability of the Block III enables it to hit targets hidden behind a mountain range. It will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Venkarl » 18 Jun 2020 15:54

https://twitter.com/rahul_dhammi/status ... 7580749824

BRO is working Full Steam on building the extremely challenging road over the Glaciated Saser-La Pass at 17,860 Ft, which offers an Alternate route to Murgo-DBO sector (In case Darbuk-Shyok Road is blocked by PLA near Galwan Valley)

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 18 Jun 2020 15:55

I've seen Major Gaurav Arya's latest report on the events at LAC. It was disappointing on 2 counts:
1. Nothing new was said, analyses by India Today were ahead of the curve compared to what R-TV came up with.

2. Images of grieving families of our soldiers killed in action in loop used as a public spectacle shows a total lack of sensitivity and decorum. Respect for a fallen hero must include letting their families grieve in private and with dignity. They can't be made objects of media sensationalism.

I expected better from you Major Arya given how often you refer to sena ka samman, if not from raucous Republic TV or other mindless channels and dumb reporters.

Information & Broadcasting ministry should immediately release guidelines to all media houses on this.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 15:58

sajaym wrote:
nam wrote: It is not easy to hit targets on reverse slope in mountains.


Maybe someone's already taken that into account...

Brahmos Block III has advanced guidance and upgraded software, incorporating high manoeuvres at multiple points and steep dive from high altitude. The steep dive capability of the Block III enables it to hit targets hidden behind a mountain range. It will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh.


You cannot hit artillery with long range missile. I was talking about MBRL or artillery in counter battery fire.

The current available solution is airpower. If there are guided MBRL with IIR seeker, with vertical drop profile, then yes.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 16:00

Before things get hot on LAC, IA should start pounding PA positions across LoC right away. Pak cannot be allowed to take advantage of the situation.

At the least they will send in hordes of terrorist across our LC defense line, with artillery support.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Pashupatastra » 18 Jun 2020 16:00

Lohit wrote:
Pashupatastra wrote:
What happened to cold start strategy or was it meant only for Pakistan ? Sadly , as of now PM has not proposed anything concrete but given a hope for revenge. The Pakis may be buffoons but they understood the value of retaliating within a day on 28 Feb after Balakot. Even if their plan did not come off , they did make a statement. The Indian leadership should have a sense of timing as China is craftier than Pak. No body is expecting PM to take a club and go to Ladakh. But , it would seem ludicrous to talk about any other issue when media is sharing the photos of our martyrs. We need a clod start for China too.


What happened to cold start strategy or was it meant only for Pakistan ? Sadly , as of now PM has not proposed anything concrete but given a hope for revenge. The Pakis may be buffoons but they understood the value of retaliating within a day on 28 Feb after Balakot. Even if their plan did not come off , they did make a statement. The Indian leadership should have a sense of timing as China is craftier than Pak. No body is expecting PM to take a club and go to Ladakh. But , it would seem ludicrous to talk about any other issue when media is sharing the photos of our martyrs. We need a clod start for China too.


Mr PP, rather than breast-beating, why dont you structure your post as: I feel our Gov and IA should belatedly have a cold start doctrine aimed at China, (give reason of why you conclusively feel we dont have it, even though it would usually be top secret even if it did exist).

Then, offer constructive suggestions - here is how the divisions, armament platforms and tech should be integrated to form a battle group that is adept at high altitude warfare, aimed specifically to counter PLA divisions in that area...

Rn a lot of your posts sound like gup-shup at local theka or pan shop.[/quote]

At least I am not hiding behind the phrase "have patience and watch for what unfolds". The doctrines are meant to be implemented than be on paper and used to play to media galleries. Seems you have spent a lot of time at chai -biskoot shops and expect the same behavior and outcome for our leadership and defence forces. At least i have some defence background being the son of an ex-airforcemen but i don't hold a superior complex of that as even our defence chiefs report and wait upon a civilian (President) for orders. Next time beware before a personal attack showing your boorishness.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 18 Jun 2020 16:03

Lohit, Pashupatastra, please spare us your skirmishes, take it to private msgs Thanks

TKiran
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby TKiran » 18 Jun 2020 16:14

My grandfather used to tell that it takes 10 times more effort to attack fortified structure, than "aar paar ki ladayee".

During the Doklam episode I was the only person screaming that we should aim for Lhasa, and do a Bangladesh to Tibet, otherwise it will become very difficult later, three years lost by us, three years gained by China.

Still we have the advantage now, atleast capture GB now before the chins create an impenetrable security architecture around CPEC.

Never try Bahubali tricks to attacking fort. It's only a movie. Occupy GB and fortify.

That will erode the Chinese strategy of CPEC, and there would be natural sapping of morale of the chins in Tibet. Today the morale of chins is high because they feel that there's a reason to defend Tibet (CPEC). Once that reason disappears, only thing they will still want to stay put will be G219.

They will not patrol pongong tso.

nam
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 18 Jun 2020 16:23

Let's stop dreaming about Lhasa, PoK etc. We are fighting to defend our land, NOT trying to create a open ended war.

Even if we manage to take over PoK or Tibet, what do we achieve? What is even the need to capture these places.

Our objective is simple. Hold our line and decimate Chini & Pak fighting capability while they attack our line. The first and foremost thing is to prove that we cannot be defeated on our line.

We cannot destroy our economic well being in the dreams of taking over PoK & Tibet, which really have no economic value.

Lekhraj
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Lekhraj » 18 Jun 2020 16:27

Edited
Last edited by Lekhraj on 18 Jun 2020 16:31, edited 1 time in total.

Cyrano
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 18 Jun 2020 16:28

OBOR's CPEC passes through PoK G-B. OBOR has plans like Bangladesh rail link
Last edited by Cyrano on 18 Jun 2020 16:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aarvee » 18 Jun 2020 16:28

^^^^ First objective, eject the intruders to pre-conflict lines and then some. Have proof so they cant deny.
Second, start an economic war and hit them where it hurts.

schinnas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 18 Jun 2020 16:31

So far the chatter from journalists connected (such as Iyer, ShivaAroor) and corroborated by official govt sources is that:

1. Cheen conducted a barbaric preplanned killing of Indian soldiers including knowingly attacking and killing our CO.
2. They might have gotten away with it, but Divine Grace was on the side of India and they end up with 2x the casualties due to land giving way.

#2 should be viewed as Cheen troops having a topographical accident. While our outnumbered and surprised and unarmed soldiers might have pushed down a few Cheen attackers down the ravine, we have NOT extracted revenue or punished the Cheen for their arrogant and barbaric treachery. May be time to send in covert forces to make some footballs roll on their side of LAC.

India cannot afford to let Cheen escape this unpunished even if they gave back all the occupied areas without conditions.

Aarvee
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aarvee » 18 Jun 2020 16:39

May be I've watched too many movies. Is it feasible to have a few hundred paratroopers dropped behind enemy lines (may be from inside our lines but they sail behind them?) too hard in mountains/high altitude regions?

RajaRudra
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RajaRudra » 18 Jun 2020 16:45

This thread need some balancing act. many here(including my self) need to vent our angst. Can admins create a new thread purely for the current border issue along LAC(possible a war already started) and keep that with only verifiable/tangible posts to maintain sanity.


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