India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Sonugn » 19 Jun 2020 12:22

abhik wrote:
putnanja wrote:
Looks like there is someone high in either MoD or IA who is feeding him info. But that aside, the lack of communications from GoI is striking and led to all sorts of speculations. GoI being silent is ok, provided there are no one providing leaks. But with the govt & IA leaking like a sieve with various tidbits fed to various journos, it creates more confusion. Its piss poor information management by GoI

This was an open secret, when the news initially broke out from "sources", most versions had the bit about some of our troops being captured. Its just that most journalists, like Shiv Aroor kept quite (he has admitted so) at least officially until they were released, probably on advice of the "sources". Of course the likes of Shooklaw would not let go of this opportunity.

Anyways IMO first downplaying the whole buildup, hardly giving out any information even when combat take place and then giving a slight of hand presser on the "hostage" situation will only play into the hands of Shooklaw and his ilk. For the un initiated aam junta they will look even more credible. In fact I'll probably be taking the "don't shoot the messenger" approach when it comes to information.

If i recall, this was mentioned by Arti Tikoo as well in addition to the fact that the Chinese had threatened to throw our men off the mountains

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 19 Jun 2020 12:22

I am getting tired of this chest thumping - we are attributing the unparalleled bravery showed by our lion-hearts as a strategy win ?? It's not. The only solace in this entire episode is that we finally killed more of theirs - but then don't we keep espounding on forum that objectives are more important ? So has not China achieved its current tactical objectives of holding a permanently threatening DSDBO road and making it almost useless ?? So how do we restore the earlier strategic balance ? And then the whole issue of making them pay for treacherously killing our soldiers in cold-blood. Any self-respecting country will avenge this and here we have to do that and also restore the startergic balance that we lost.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 19 Jun 2020 12:28

Kati wrote:
Dilbu wrote:Can someone who can read the language please confirm whether the news is about current or past encroachment into Arunachal Pradesh.
https://assam.news18.com/news/nation/how-china-occupied-huge-land-of-arunachal-pradesh-bjp-mp-tapir-gaon-describes-history-62953.html


Looks like Cheen has captured a large area on both sides of Subanshiri river as concern expressed by the BJP MP of East Arunachal Pradesh.
The article then goes on to provide map of the area alleged to have been taken over by Cheen (again salami slicing),

Sir can you post the image of the Map? I didn't find it in the article. TIA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby VikramS » 19 Jun 2020 12:28

Baikul wrote:
VikramS wrote:
Is losing face more important than escalating a conflict?

Leaders should strive to achieve their strategic goals with minimal loss of life.

As I had noted earlier, politically, there are no major elections upcoming, so there is no rush for GOI to get the Indian story out.

On the ground Indian Armed forces had mobilized and their talks had resulted in agreements to pullback. That the Chinese did not honor the agreement and ambushed Indian patrols is what changed the situation.

However, you can not assume that the Chinese would do that and move up the escalation ladder without proper cause. Every action has a reaction.

It’s neither losing face nor escalating a conflict. It’s a question of 20 of your soldiers murdered - so what have we done about it? Or plan to do? This was not war - it was murder. I can patiently wait for a response but there has to be one - clear, measurable and seen. Otherwise all the forum talk of our honour and dignity and civilisation versus back stabbing lizards is idle chat and the language of loss.

Also does the GOI have to get the Indian story out only in response to local election/ political needs? I strongly question this premise. How about to get an India narrative?

As I said I for one will wait because you can’t hurry a measured hard response which we want GOI to give. But if we subside into business as usual, chankian post facto rationalisation, then what is to be assumed?



This thread by Mihir sums up the situation well...

https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1273830487081938944

How many press briefings have the Chinese held? Have they even said what their casualties were?

The point about political compulsion was that Modi et al are willing to take the political cost of not talking about the situation, IF they believe that it will help them in handling the situation.

GOI goal here is to maintain the status-quo with minimum loss of life & resources.

The news about the battle and the captured soldier would have forced the political leadership to lean on the military leadership. That is not the kind of pressure you want the military leadership to be under. Let them figure out the optimal path without forcing them to do something to please the galleries.

And coming up with a narrative requires a pliant media. In the US when it comes to issue of national security all media outlets cooperate to ensure that operational flexibility is not constrained. This does not mean that the policies are not scrutinized later; just that during the crisis the country stands as one.

In India we have people like Ajai Shukla and Aakar Patel who will not let go of any opportunity, true or untrue, to make the PM look bad.

https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status ... 5192402946

"Our real enemy is the BJP. China is an opponent. Has strategic objectives. It isn’t trying to destroy us internally. BJP is."

Or this:
https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1273857924570288129
Last edited by VikramS on 19 Jun 2020 19:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Pashupatastra » 19 Jun 2020 12:40

DrRatnadip wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/another-round-of-major-general-level-talks-between-india-china-today-after-10-indian-soldiers-released/articleshow/76457915.cms

By talking and showing excessive willingness to deescalate , we are strengthening Chini salami slicing.. If we dont show national resolve to avenge deaths of our 20 breavehearts , then we risk repeatation of same again and again .. Why are we worried about giving face saving option to china when their clear motive was to humiliate us by teaching us lesson again.. Its time to stop talking.. If someone tries to intrude in our land , our soldiers should be able to shoot. There is no point in sending them to such harsh locations against cruel cunning enemy with hands tied behind their backs.. There is palpable anger in common Indian citizen against chinese.. GOI has clear majority, public backing and capable armed force.. If this is not sufficient to take VISIBLE action against china then I dont know if we ever be worthy enough to call us superpower..


It I our perception that we are giving them a face saver while in reality it may be other way around. All past Indian govt. may have had an arrangement with Chinese not to make a show of territory gained . Chinese have never made a lot of gaining 640 sq. km in UPA period and they would be happy to keep quiet to gain some more

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 19 Jun 2020 12:47

amar_p wrote:If any one thinks after Kargil the Indian Army will build the road to DBO without considering the consequences of the adversary occupying the heights across the road, then why waste your precious few neurones on this forum?

So why are we in this situation?
Because I can because I have an interest and besause I care
Last edited by ks_sachin on 19 Jun 2020 12:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby manjgu » 19 Jun 2020 12:47

habal wrote:Chinese won't remain massed in the lower valleys for long esp since that they have already been warned adequately by cloudbursts. It's only a matter of time (short) that they break out to cut off the road.

It will not be a two-front war since the pakistanis lost an f16 due to electronic malfunction short while ago. They should have got the message else who knows what else may fail. This is only about China.

Most Chinese companies are taken over or owned by CPC mandarins who are now fearing loss of business to India. They will try their best to stem this flow one way or another.


F 16 loss ?? no news on the net...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 19 Jun 2020 12:50

Thankfully we have strategists like Brahma Challaney who keeps everyone honest. He was right in calling out the mistake of current army chief who said there is no Chinese incursion into Indian territory on May 14th, which is a very bad statement to make which will not help us in any talks.Our Army chief's statements should be maximalist from Indian PoV. It should not be used to deflect media pressure in India.

Abhijit Iyer Mitra seems to peddle Chinese line that there are no incursions. While I don't doubt his intentions, his research could be sloppy.

Our army would know what the ground reality is and we should take a claim for LAC that is much beyond what was the state in say 1984 and reiterate that we expect Chinese to vacate the Indian territory of Gosthana (aka Aksai Chin) through talks. Our maps and press releases should start referring to Aksai Chin as Gosthana.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby gauravsh » 19 Jun 2020 12:57

VikramS wrote:This thread by Mihir sums up the situation well...

https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1273830487081938944

How many press briefings have the Chinese held? Have they even said what their casualties were?

The point about political compulsion was that Modi et al are willing to take the political cost of not talking about the situation, IF they believe that it will help them in handling the situation.

GOI goal here is to maintain the status-quo with minimum loss of life & resources.

The news about the battle and the captured soldier would have forced the political leadership to lean on the military leadership. That is not the kind of pressure you want the military leadership to be under. Let them figure out the optimal path without forcing them to do something to please the galleries.

And coming up with a narrative requires a pliant media. In the US when it comes to issue of national security all media outlets cooperate to ensure that operational flexibility is not constrained. This does not mean that the policies are not scrutinized later; just that during the crisis the country stands as one.

In India we have people like Ajai Shukla and Aakar Patel who will not let go of any opportunity, true or untrue, to make the PM look bad.

https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status ... 5192402946

"Our real enemy is the BJP. China is an opponent. Has strategic objectives. It isn’t trying to destroy us internally. BJP is."

China is under the rule of a dictator, they can afford all the lies and absolutely zero accountability. We can't, that's the nature of the democracy.
People like ajai shukla / RG and all others will go after govt, sometimes unreasonably. GoI and the party needs to deal with it. That's how politics works. Nobody will let go any oppurtunity to harm it's opponents.
Problem is on one hand GoI hold back information, which is fine given operational secrecy,but on the other hand we have journalist putting sensitive information on SM. Which effectively means GoI is not able to control leak of information.
Also, people here should stop shielding Modi ji everytime. He is not bigger than interest of the nation which are stake here.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 19 Jun 2020 13:04

In case of armed conflict, there is no point in pushing Cheen back to April 2020 status quo given their salami slicing and large scale occupation of Indian territory since 1950s. Our objectives should serve a long term strategic purpose that is worth the sacrifice of precious lives and immense risk a war can bring to us. At the same time, I am trying to be realistic and don't want to claim we will take over Mt. Kailas,., etc., at this stage. We may not have the capability for take it or even if we take it sustain it within our control in the face of relentless enemy attempts to retake it.

1. In the Pangsong Lake, all fingers and the associated heights / ridges to be under Indian control including all areas around Sirjap (assuming Sirjap falls to the East of Finger 8).
2. Fully control over all of the Galwan Valley area - especially upto a distance of 50 kms from DBO highway. The enemy does not need to own any hights. Thanks to satellite and drones, they can have full visibility of the road, but should be denied any possibility of artillery based interdiction of our movement on the highway.
- All areas of Galwan valley and associated ridges until effective max artillery distance + 10 kms from DBO highway.
- The source of Galwan river area should also be brought under Indian control if possible given the eco terrorism perpetrated by the enemy.
3. Gain control over all of chumbi valley and convert chicken neck into a nice and thick Tiger neck.
4. Full control over areas adjacent to Chusul valley, especially all the mountains and ridges that are of strategic importance.
5. We should wrest back one or two strategic location in Northern AP.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cain Marko » 19 Jun 2020 13:10

khan wrote:I doubt that the IA & GOI are morons, oblivious to the ground situation - who were negotiating while random idiots on Twitter were screaming about what the Chinese were really upto.

They must have something up their sleeve. Fannie’s Intel does fit that assumption, but I will be a skeptical p***k.

You and me. With all due respect to the Gurus. Why would they give back 10 of our men you say? Why not? Esp. If they have achieved what they wanted to - Encroached and captured an area that they previously didn't have control over?

I hope I'm wrong and while I'm sure there will be another Shaitan Singh in this story too, it is not exactly helpful that the enemy does what it wants to and everytime we need terrible self sacrifice (not from the politicians mind you) to extricate ourselves out of the mess.

Another aspect is that of image. If we are on top, show it. All the chankian spin doesn't help if it causes nothing but doubt in the minds of the people. Same thing with balakot too. At least there the move was initiated by India. And then stalwarts wonder why mango man has inferior complex and shivers in the dhoti.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 19 Jun 2020 13:14

abhik wrote:
Kati wrote:
Looks like Cheen has captured a large area on both sides of Subanshiri river as concern expressed by the BJP MP of East Arunachal Pradesh.
The article then goes on to provide map of the area alleged to have been taken over by Cheen (again salami slicing),

Sir can you post the image of the Map? I didn't find it in the article. TIA.

Just did some googling/g-mapping:
1. There is a large Chinese base/settlement just north of the LAC (using googles definition of LAC) @28.661373,93.3728713
2. A road that clearly is heading down across the LAC to another permanent structure at our side @28.597874,93.4022653
3. This road ends at another permanent structure @28.5810563,93.4059986
Total distance from point 1 to point 3 is ~8Km (eyeballing), out of which around 6-8km on our side if you use apple/MS or 3km if you go by google (interesting that google's alignment of LAC is quite south of other platforms).

It's safe to say this much salami slicing has already happened, question is have the Chinese started moving further south from here recently.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 19 Jun 2020 13:25

Did not see this posted earlier.

Australia says it is target of cyberattack by 'state actor'

"This activity is targeting Australian organisations across a range of sectors, including all levels of government, industry, political organisations, education, health, essential service providers and operators of other critical infrastructure," he added.

Although the threat was constant, the frequency of attacks had increased "over many months," Morrison said, urging all organisations to ensure their systems were protected.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 19 Jun 2020 13:30

schinnas wrote:the associated heights / ridges to be under Indian control


Golden words. Now this is the only way left for the IA to respond -- take as many heights or choke-points one-by-one, just like Kargil. It's going to be bloody and will mostly have to be a special forces operation, but it'll be worth it. Once the heights are secured and we are looking down on the PLA, it's game over for them. Problem is, the heights have to be taken in the peak of the winter. That's when they'll be least expecting us...but till then unfortunately, we have to take as many punches as possible and still be standing.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 19 Jun 2020 13:41


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 19 Jun 2020 14:08

ks_sachin wrote:
amar_p wrote:If any one thinks after Kargil the Indian Army will build the road to DBO without considering the consequences of the adversary occupying the heights across the road, then why waste your precious few neurones on this forum?

So why are we in this situation?
Because I can because I have an interest and besause I care


Lets look at the map by our own rohitvats:
Image

That the Army has factored in possible Chinese response to our building the road to DBO along the south-eastern bank of Shyok river with heights opposite is borne out by the fact that :
- we have the area under surveillance on the ground, from the sky and from space.
- we have raised the required mountain divisions to defend it
- we have mobilised required troops to fwd locations as soon as we saw the Chinese increase mobilisation near the LAC on their side.
- our bases are closer to Shyok than the Chinese bases so the supply chain and reinforcements are way more easier to bring in for India than it is for the Chinese whose bases are far away and more difficult to access.
- we have seen how the Chinese are in a stalemate/egg on the face situation now.

You may ask why did we not proactively occupy the heights on the opposite bank of the Shyok river? Well, its already our land, what is the need to attract attention from the enemy by moving troops there while the road construction is still going on ? Chinese surveillance would be on par with ours. Plus the ridge lines opposite do not seem to offer any flat tops or natural shelter. If you try to station troops day & night, you will only expose them to enemy fire or death by freezing.

Going from south to North, 3 spots: Pangong Tso, Galwan river meeting point with Shyok, and Murgo seem to be the only points where the terrain allows a Chinese approach to the road under construction. Of these, the third spot Murgo is at least 20km from LAC, and from here on the road to DBO already exists, and is well defended I presume.

The first 2, i.e. Pangong Tso, Galwan river confluence are closer to the LAC and have a lake and river bed features that make an approach possible though by no means easy to move large formations. I would say they are funnel like death traps with IA armed and ready at the other end. (Check out the meaning of "Pangong") As the Chinese are now finding out.

This is my reading, members with far more knowledge may add as needed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 19 Jun 2020 14:21

sajaym wrote:
schinnas wrote:the associated heights / ridges to be under Indian control


Golden words. Now this is the only way left for the IA to respond -- take as many heights or choke-points one-by-one, just like Kargil. It's going to be bloody and will mostly have to be a special forces operation, but it'll be worth it. Once the heights are secured and we are looking down on the PLA, it's game over for them. Problem is, the heights have to be taken in the peak of the winter. That's when they'll be least expecting us...but till then unfortunately, we have to take as many punches as possible and still be standing.

From Chushul to Demchok we own the heights wherever we can. Even perhaps beyond coming south..
We know the choke points like the back of our hands.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rkirankr » 19 Jun 2020 14:37

abhik wrote:
putnanja wrote:
Looks like there is someone high in either MoD or IA who is feeding him info. But that aside, the lack of communications from GoI is striking and led to all sorts of speculations. GoI being silent is ok, provided there are no one providing leaks. But with the govt & IA leaking like a sieve with various tidbits fed to various journos, it creates more confusion. Its piss poor information management by GoI

This was an open secret, when the news initially broke out from "sources", most versions had the bit about some of our troops being captured. Its just that most journalists, like Shiv Aroor kept quite (he has admitted so) at least officially until they were released, probably on advice of the "sources". Of course the likes of Shooklaw would not let go of this opportunity.

Anyways IMO first downplaying the whole buildup, hardly giving out any information even when combat take place and then giving a slight of hand presser on the "hostage" situation will only play into the hands of Shooklaw and his ilk. For the un initiated aam junta they will look even more credible. In fact I'll probably be taking the "don't shoot the messenger" approach when it comes to information.

I do not why not believe the Army and GOI than the "sources" about hostage. After one day, I see lot of rona dhona on many platforms on how we were sleeping. We were NOT. Buildup was there and hence our Army too has prepared. Is it the same Shukla of T72>Arjun fame


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby basant » 19 Jun 2020 14:38

Tweet
Dr. APR Flag of IndiaMaple leaf
@drapr007

Army engineers hv completed bridge over Galwan river in eastern Ladakh that would consolidate India’s hold of the sensitive sector by allowing Indian infantry to move across the cold mountain river & also protect 255km strategic road from Darbuk to DaulatBeg Oldie.#JaiHindKiSena

2:03 PM · Jun 19, 2020

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rkirankr » 19 Jun 2020 14:40

rkirankr wrote:https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1273894515108048904

Enemy itself confirming , no prisoners. So who are these "sources" . I know the Shuklas of the world will now say that, this is a process of normalization from cheena

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 19 Jun 2020 14:43

Satellites images on the Chinese side of LAC in the Galwan valley shows huge construction activity. Just like on the lake they are constructing roads towards PP14.

The Chinese have been claiming that entire Galwan valley was always under their control. There is nothing on the ground to prove it.

The objective is to prove they had control. And in future encroach in to the confluence of Shyok. If not this regime, any future Indian gov which will not make noise.

The fight in Galwan must be to prevent us from building any road/bridges consolidating our position.

I really hope we are building roads as fast as the chinese are doing. We cannot just build up and have make any roads to mark our position.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Deans » 19 Jun 2020 14:44

https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2020/06/china-india-border

Credible source article on the Chinese buildup.
Last edited by Deans on 19 Jun 2020 14:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 19 Jun 2020 14:46

rkirankr wrote:https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1273894515108048904


Either the PLA did not inform the Chinese gov or we had PLA PoW ourself, who were handed back and the Chinese does want us to publicly declare about them.

Multiple well connected reporters on twitter have mentioned our guys being held PoW. Serves no purpose to fly a rumor and hide it for two days.

If the objective was to flame up the nation, then they could have made it public on Tuesday/Wednesday itself.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rkirankr » 19 Jun 2020 14:48

https://twitter.com/BhaavnaArora/status ... 0683120640 this version is more believable than the sooper dooper defense analysts

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby hanumadu » 19 Jun 2020 14:54

This thread has a plausible sequence of events.

https://twitter.com/BhaavnaArora/status/1273826233881554944?s=20

Some of those PLA soldiers were thrown in the gorge nearby and in this melee, few of our soldiers went down as well.


At what height did the melee took place. I thought the chinese illegal camps were set up right beside the river on the bank and our CO went there to check and dismantle them.

How did so many of our soldiers reach their camps at that height and attacked them without them knowing?

One thing almost all accounts tell is many soldiers from both the sides fell down into the river from a height.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 19 Jun 2020 15:07

hanumadu wrote:This thread has a plausible sequence of events.

https://twitter.com/BhaavnaArora/status/1273826233881554944?s=20

Some of those PLA soldiers were thrown in the gorge nearby and in this melee, few of our soldiers went down as well.


At what height did the melee took place. I thought the chinese illegal camps were set up right beside the river on the bank and our CO went there to check and dismantle them.

How did so many of our soldiers reach their camps at that height and attacked them without them knowing?

One thing almost all accounts tell is many soldiers from both the sides fell down into the river from a height.


An academic question.

What makes it plausible?


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Armuan » 19 Jun 2020 15:19

ramana wrote:All the naysayers are in that business.
All fingers means all fingers.

I don't type waste words.
Can check my 20 years on Forum.
Iyersan, Col Babu did fighting like a legend.

Won't see such a warrior in a few generations.
nam screw the naysayers.
Govt is not in the business of pressers.
Sick of all these OSINT folks who want to imitate Mihir Shah without the finesse.


In all these years I have never seen your posts wasted. I trust your words. Will donate.
There was some confusion if Sirjap was past finger 8 or between 5 & 6. Rohit's shows it is past finger 8 and I trust it. If so, this is a great victory in this round.

Army Jawans Welfare fund: Is this the site?:
https://www.pmindia.gov.in/en/national-defence-fund/

Also, has PP 14 been taken back by us as well?

On a different note, there is something nagging as to why the Chinese released the PoWs and what leverage we had other than on the trade front.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby hanumadu » 19 Jun 2020 15:23

ks_sachin wrote:
hanumadu wrote:This thread has a plausible sequence of events.

https://twitter.com/BhaavnaArora/status/1273826233881554944?s=20



At what height did the melee took place. I thought the chinese illegal camps were set up right beside the river on the bank and our CO went there to check and dismantle them.

How did so many of our soldiers reach their camps at that height and attacked them without them knowing?

One thing almost all accounts tell is many soldiers from both the sides fell down into the river from a height.


An academic question.

What makes it plausible?


It explains why so many of their soldiers died to our fewer numbers. It explains why only three people were said to be killed. And only later news of 20 of our solders being killed came out. It also explains why there is a rumour about some of our soldiers being held captive by them. They might just be the injured/dead soldiers who were unable to return from the melee when the chinese reinforcements came.

samirdiw
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby samirdiw » 19 Jun 2020 15:32

We continue to see this MO happen due to our refusal or even a threat to pound their construction or their men squatting on the site while they have no qualms to do so.
In doklam after we initially tried to dig up the road and put boots on ground they brought in heavy artillery and threatened to pound us. After talks concluded what was the end result, we moved back, didnt break up their road down with artillery and now they have only fortified the road there. End result their position is fortified just outside from where we stood.
Now the reversal situation here, they landed on site, but we refuse to rain down artillery on their positions or even threaten to.
Net result the only side positions extremely fortified up to the line of new claim is theirs.The 2 sides are not going to be standing nose to nose so effectively they have created a new wall.
This is already teaching us a lesson that until we use artillery to create a no mans land equidistant from the border(dont want to use this LAC invented nonsense) their positions are only getting stronger and creating a new headache with not much loss in man or material on their side and continuing to fortify their positions.

India and Pakistan cant do this nonsense to each other despite the size difference. What is our army/govts solution to this salami slicing? Why cant we rain a few artillary, leading to possibly some casualties on both sides and then call for talks like it happens with pakistan. Then they will get the message cant continue to construct roads and buildings upto the border.
Last edited by samirdiw on 19 Jun 2020 17:45, edited 2 times in total.

ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 19 Jun 2020 15:44

Venkarl wrote:https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1273826233881554944.html

Enjoy!

I had the good fortune of enjoying the god like status of a CO and the Queen mother status of a COs wife. Even today it brings back warm memories...

LakshmanPST
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby LakshmanPST » 19 Jun 2020 15:55

rkirankr wrote:https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1273894515108048904


Assuming (just for a moment) the capture & release of Indian soldiers is true, I don't understand the over-enthusiasm of the Defence journos to report sensitive stuff not officially reported by Army or GOI, and infact after Army officially reported that all personnel are accounted for...

Winning the narrative war is also important and here the war is between Indian Govt. and Chinese Govt.... And it is also important for the Govt. to keep the morale of forces and public high...
How are these ppl missing this simple point...??? Even reasonable ones...

Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 19 Jun 2020 15:57

You are assuming all the Journos are Patriots working on our side. Some of them clearly have a hatred for this nation.

ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 19 Jun 2020 16:01

LakshmanPST wrote:
rkirankr wrote:https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1273894515108048904


Assuming (just for a moment) the capture & release of Indian soldiers is true, I don't understand the over-enthusiasm of the Defence journos to report sensitive stuff not officially reported by Army or GOI, and infact after Army officially reported that all personnel are accounted for...

Winning the narrative war is also important and here the war is between Indian Govt. and Chinese Govt.... And it is also important for the Govt. to keep the morale of forces and public high...
How are these ppl missing this simple point...??? Even reasonable ones...

Lakshman it is a reflection of our society....
They are no different to similar acts of wanton disregard to norms we see in our everyday lives.

rkirankr
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rkirankr » 19 Jun 2020 16:12

ks_sachin wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:
Assuming (just for a moment) the capture & release of Indian soldiers is true, I don't understand the over-enthusiasm of the Defence journos to report sensitive stuff not officially reported by Army or GOI, and infact after Army officially reported that all personnel are accounted for...

Winning the narrative war is also important and here the war is between Indian Govt. and Chinese Govt.... And it is also important for the Govt. to keep the morale of forces and public high...
How are these ppl missing this simple point...??? Even reasonable ones...

Lakshman it is a reflection of our society....
They are no different to similar acts of wanton disregard to norms we see in our everyday lives.

Story at any cost, is the mantra of these so called defence journos (includes some ex-servicemen as well)… Nationalism you said ? ...eh .. what is that?

ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 19 Jun 2020 16:57

How do I post a video. I have been forwarded one which explains things simply?

schinnas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 19 Jun 2020 17:04

If its on Youtube or Twitter, you can post a link. If it is only available on whatsapp, you can download that video on your phone and upload it to Youtube and share a link.

schinnas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 19 Jun 2020 17:08

ks_sachin wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:Winning the narrative war is also important and here the war is between Indian Govt. and Chinese Govt.... And it is also important for the Govt. to keep the morale of forces and public high...
How are these ppl missing this simple point...??? Even reasonable ones...

Lakshman it is a reflection of our society....
They are no different to similar acts of wanton disregard to norms we see in our everyday lives.


What each of us can do is call / shame them on Twitter and facebook. And praise the ones that don't stoop to that level so they don't feel the urge to disregard norms for TRP ratings. I make it a point to not read an article written by such usual suspects or watch their program (for TV journos). Ex: Remove NDTV / Indiatoday from your DTH and tweet to them and to the anchor in question saying you are doing it for their insensitive and unpatriotic coverage of events related to Martyr's death or soldiers' captivity.

It is same as boycotting Chinese products. If enough people make it a trend (and follow through on it), then many brands will invest in moving their manufacturing to outside of China or preferably to India.

Sangachatwam - we as a society needs to display that togetherness. I hope now people understand the value of Gandhiji's Swadeshi and Quit India movements. Its just getting people's collective consciousness together and the rest will happen by itself.

Larry Walker
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 19 Jun 2020 17:20

Situation will only go towards a short intense border war. With loss of our jawans GoI cannot back down till all our areas are back with us - with so much loss Chinese cannot back down on their side since it was CPC's army and commander XiPing that was served a thappad and they have nothing to show for all this buildup and loss if they go back now.


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