India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 22 Jun 2020 17:28

amar_p wrote:If that is China's position, then why come for talks? They are stalling, buying time to review their next attack plans based on 15-16 experience.

Its like a "negotiation" meetings with some Procurement fellows who repeat the same impossible demand in each meeting, hoping the seller will get fed up and give something to close and move on. Only GoI ain't sellin' nothin' man!

It all looks to me like a ploy to get us to escalate. The general could very well have set up things that, lacking a directive from Xi to attack India, could be used to counterattack our escalation. And in his calculus, he could have delivered a bloody nose to us and got his due promotion besides joining the list of Chinese legends. So he got his soldiers to sit pretty on Finger 4, Galwan and other areas.

For us, what's the hurry? Come winter, these camps will be cleared anyway. The raw show of strength is purely for public consumption - that part is clear - because it runs contrary to any military strategy to have large numbers of soldiers camped in unstable river valleys, or on open rock faces.

Also I think we are holding on to videos/photos of the dead and imprisoned Chinese soldiers as a tactical card. I will not be surprised to see slow leaks till they agree to some rollback.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 17:31

Iyersan wrote:I am getting to hear that core commander level talks in Moldo failed. China wants india to move out of Galwan and give away finger 4 too.

#BREAKING: China continues to remain adamant on withdrawal from #GalwanValley & Finger 4 area in the Corps Commander level talks today. The dialogue unfortunately has not been as per the expectations, official confirmation awaited. India too remained firm. #BreakingNews

https://twitter.com/AshutoshGhazal/stat ... 56736?s=19


The Chinese know that we will not move out and hence they are demanding. They also need some show and tell that they tried to negotiate and it failed. So narrative in China would be India occupied Galwan valley, PLA asked them to vacate, IA refused - hence the border war.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RaviB » 22 Jun 2020 17:33

Aditya_V wrote:
Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/jam79922967/status/1274477677676769281?s=21
Anger in Chinese media over NO respect for Ladakh dead soldiers


Can anyone who reads Mandarin state what these names mean

Image


This is a list of Chinese Generals. It's written in old Chinese script so likely dates to 1960s at the latest.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Jun 2020 17:38

Ok

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RKumar » 22 Jun 2020 17:39

vishvak wrote:So Chinese planned of punishing peripheral democracy and such shyt and now this escalation may precipitate war. But I wonder why Pakis made that mistake of sitting with Chinese, after building muscle, and flight plans for forward fighter jets etc., fighting right enemy (India) and now sitting with China. It is like Karna syndrome before war and squatting with China just because it is too bad to even discus due to past karma.

If things start to escalate then better be prepared to have right stuff sorted out (exchange prisoners or info atleast) before hatred built over generations annihilate values and self worth covered by pride.


Let alone Pak even half of us would not have expected direct and principled stand from GoI if scamgress was ruling India, Modi ji spoiled the plans of (hene and NaPak. Some might not aware, but GoI was planning for such events since 3+ years based on past behaviour two taller n deeper friends. Some people in power corridors put road blocks due to different reason, delaying our preparation but that is history. Now everyone saw the bigger picture and united.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 17:40

I tend to agree.

There are marathoners who run races all year long. IA is like that. And there are others who train for a specific race and achieve their peak form on race date. Like PLA. For the latter, the longer you wait, the more edge you lose. Frustration sets in, morale goes down. One can cock a fist and hold back the punch only for so long. IA can sit pretty, and play the waiting game for another 4 months.
Last edited by Cyrano on 22 Jun 2020 17:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 17:41

Problem for Chinese is that we did not escalate in Galwan since we came out better - so this time Chinese will ensure that we escalate - so they will walk in around Depsang which is very near to civil population and then there will not be any need for satellite map wars in studios - as you will be able to see them in front of you.
Also, it is still 4 months before it snows so much as to cut access - and with the daily pressure from opposition that GoI is weak, Modi does not have the option to wait for winter.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 17:43

Modi doesn't give a rat's a$$ about opposition.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RaviB » 22 Jun 2020 17:44

nam wrote:Zhoa is the not WTC commander. He moved out in April. There is a new guy, Xu Quiling


Did you mean Xu Qiliang? He is a PLAAF General and nowadays the vice-chairman of the CMC. I don't know about the exact military structure but it would be unusual for him to be directly in command of the WTC. Zhao was definitely in command of the WTC till last year
Last edited by RaviB on 22 Jun 2020 17:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 22 Jun 2020 17:46

RaviB wrote:
nam wrote:Zhoa is the not WTC commander. He moved out in April. There is a new guy, Xu Quiling


Did you mean Xu Qiliang? He is a PLAAF General and nowadays the vice-chairman of the CMC. I don't know about the exact military structure but it would be unusual for him to be directly in command of the WTC


https://www.newworldorder.today/post/why-the-world-needs-to-know-about-general-xu-qiling

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sanjayc » 22 Jun 2020 17:46

NDTV is reporting that China has official confirmed their commanding officer died in Galwan clash

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rkirankr » 22 Jun 2020 17:49

Hearing that China captured a Nepali village and annexed it to Tibet. Oli will regret his embrace with Dragon

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby AshishA » 22 Jun 2020 17:58

nam wrote:In the fist videos, we can see that the Chinis are very eager to fight. They start off and then get whacked.

The sense of superiority and how dare these Indians come here, shows in the attitude.

I fear this attitude might be there right up to WTC and might kick off something.


I agree with this sentiment. These little emperors might be feeling humiliated after the lesson that IA hammered in to their thick skulls.

Since generals were not there physically to experience the terror, they might be looking for ways to create more misadventures.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 17:59

nam wrote:
RaviB wrote:
Did you mean Xu Qiliang? He is a PLAAF General and nowadays the vice-chairman of the CMC. I don't know about the exact military structure but it would be unusual for him to be directly in command of the WTC


https://www.newworldorder.today/post/why-the-world-needs-to-know-about-general-xu-qiling


Seems like a brilliant military leader. Unparalleled experience running over unarmed civilians in battle tanks, formation flying over Beijing, killing unarmed Tibetains by the dozens, security of major cities that were never attacked, not to mention perfect parading in impeccably ironed uniforms, year after year... Wow !!

He will surely be sent places after facing the Indian Army.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Hari Nair » 22 Jun 2020 18:05

ramana wrote:I think it was an invasion plan that went awry. That rock dam and timing was to minimize water flow and drive those truck to DBO road and strike Leh. It got foiled. Shookla types were in the know to create FUD.


Ramana Saar,

Their Galwan movement is, in all likelihood, the southern arm of a pincer manoeuvre.
The northern arm of the pincer is the armour backed forces through Depsang (south of DBO).
The objective of the Great Superior Han Army appears to be slicing off the area south of DBO, which I had posted in an earlier thread.

A member in an earlier post had queried about the terrain around Depsang -
Well, around Depsang and to the east, its rolling plains - well suited for armour. Its not perfectly flat and its not exactly open sesame in all directions, however armour can be gainfully used. The terrain is ice and glacier-free, especially in this season.
To the west, the Chipchap river joins the Shyok (which flows towards the south). Beyond the western bank of the Shyok there is a sheer arc- wall of mountains with glaciers running into the Shyok.

In the event the Great Type-15 tanks of the Superior Army rolls in, the only way our land forces can come in for a counter attack in strength, is from the south. Hence the vulnerability of the sector.

The Great Superior Han Army has perhaps evaluated that this is their last campaign season to change the facts on the ground and even now, they are racing to ensure that objective before a limitation / perceived limitation of ours is overcome.

They appear to be gambling on their perceived advantage with superior tech and equipment and ability to bring forces in strength to pressure points of their choice since they think they still hold the initiative. However, equipment alone does not an Army make - as the Superior Hans recently discovered to their horror - that despite their well-planned and pre-mediated ambush, the 'Barbarians' from that 'inferior, dirty and poor vassal country' came screaming into Galwan Valley without firearms and mowed them down in substantial numbers.

Couple of other points -

When flying northwards at a low height through Shyok, the valley short of DBO suddenly opens up into an almost alien and hauntingly beautiful landscape -the rocks and ground are Red, interspersed with other brilliant colours and these contrast with the prominently dark-Blue high altitude sky. Its also unlimited visibility in clear weather - where one can perhaps see hundreds of kilometres into the Tibetan plateau.

A member posted some large scale maps of the area. These maps are vintage and I am not sure whether a few of the camping grounds (posts held by us) are correctly marked.
Last edited by Hari Nair on 22 Jun 2020 18:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Rakesh » 22 Jun 2020 18:09

Thank You Hair Nair Sir. Great post.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RaviB » 22 Jun 2020 18:12

nam wrote:
RaviB wrote:
Did you mean Xu Qiliang? He is a PLAAF General and nowadays the vice-chairman of the CMC. I don't know about the exact military structure but it would be unusual for him to be directly in command of the WTC


https://www.newworldorder.today/post/why-the-world-needs-to-know-about-general-xu-qiling


So, I checked a little.Gen. Zhao Zongqi is still the WTC commander and since April Lt Gen Xu Qiling is the PLAGF commander for the WTC.

This article by Claude Arpi gives an excellent overview of the military leadership of the WTC

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby AshishA » 22 Jun 2020 18:23

But the way they have been censoring posts and the official news they've been pushing points in the direction of reluctance to escalate


@RaviB ji the Superior Hans also like to play weiqi right? Which relies on misdirection. So all of this can be show of wanting de-escalation while they might be raging inside to teaching a lesson to poor Indians.

Btw Great post Hari Nair sir.

I propose we all use the Great Superior Hans and Great Superior Han army in all our posts. :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Pashupatastra » 22 Jun 2020 18:30

amar_p wrote:Modi doesn't give a rat's a$$ about opposition.


Modi will have to give a rat's and cat's ass as polls in Bihar and other states may not favor BJP if no strong action taken against PLA

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 18:37

You are entitled to your opinion Sir

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RaviB » 22 Jun 2020 18:40

AshishAcharya wrote:
But the way they have been censoring posts and the official news they've been pushing points in the direction of reluctance to escalate


@RaviB ji the Superior Hans also like to play weiqi right? Which relies on misdirection. So all of this can be show of wanting de-escalation while they might be raging inside to teaching a lesson to poor Indians.


Misdirection is indeed a possibility. Doklam was a lot of bluster (meaning they had decided to fight with big words) right now it's very subdued, which raises the question of how (or whether) they want to fight this time.

My gut feeling is that they are remaking their plans and probably having to get approval from Beijing on the new plans. The original plans, whatever they were, seem to have sprung a leak.

A sign of their weakness and that they are about to give up will be magnanimous gestures.

What might also be relevant is that this year is the 70th anniversary of India-China diplomatic relations and they were planning to have a lot of ceremony and celebration around that. The MFA might be miffed but of course PLA will make the final decision and their diplomats don't really matter right now.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 22 Jun 2020 18:43

Hari Nair wrote:Their Galwan movement is, in all likelihood, the southern arm of a pincer manoeuvre.
The northern arm of the pincer is the armour backed forces through Depsang (south of DBO).
The objective of the Great Superior Han Army appears to be slicing off the area south of DBO, which I had posted in an earlier thread.

A member in an earlier post had queried about the terrain around Depsang -
Well, around Depsang and to the east, its rolling plains - well suited for armour. Its not perfectly flat and its not exactly open sesame in all directions, however armour can be gainfully used. The terrain is ice and glacier-free, especially in this season.
To the west, the Chipchap river joins the Shyok (which flows towards the south). Beyond the western bank of the Shyok there is a sheer arc- wall of mountains with glaciers running into the Shyok.

In the event the Great Type-15 tanks of the Superior Army rolls in, the only way our land forces can come in for a counter attack in strength, is from the south. Hence the vulnerability of the sector.


:idea: Can someone picturize these movements on the maps that we already have, with red arrows for PLA moves and blue arrows for IA moves? Such maps will then be useful to compare with actual movements when the action starts. It'll help us keyboard warriors brief & debrief for future action.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Anoop » 22 Jun 2020 19:08

Hari Nair wrote:The Great Superior Han Army has perhaps evaluated that this is their last campaign season to change the facts on the ground and even now, they are racing to ensure that objective before a limitation / perceived limitation of ours is overcome.

They appear to be gambling on their perceived advantage with superior tech and equipment and ability to bring forces in strength to pressure points of their choice.


Sir, can you comment on how you see the impasse that arises from the reported failure of the Lt.Gen level talks, can be resolved? If the PLA refuses to vacate the Galwan Valley intrusion, does India have the option of waiting it out through winter or will they have to be vacated by force? Or perhaps by changing the LAC elsewhere? It would appear from your post that the PLA does not have the luxury of time as the IA builds up its infrastructure and closes the window of opportunity for them. So the question is- is it in the IA's interest to wait it out and just prevent further intrusion, or does it need to vacate the intrusion by force?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 22 Jun 2020 19:12

^^

Galwan valley, the Indian part, is FREE of Chinese intrusion/occupation. This should have been clear following all the coverage after June 15/16 clash.

Chinese have dug in massively @ Panang lake.
Last edited by pankajs on 22 Jun 2020 19:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 19:13

Just wait for China to start it's plan in Depsang. Just because they could not capture Galwan does not mean that they will drop that real plan - they are taking a couple of weeks in chai-biskoot to factor in this new contingency and make alternate prep before they start again. J-10 in Skardu would be part of the alternate contingency plan.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Vivasvat » 22 Jun 2020 19:15

So, A PLA General can act on his own and pursue his own agenda once appointed as a leader of the forces.

From the introduction of the translated "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/132

Sun Tzu Wu was a native of the Ch’i State. His Art of War brought him to the notice of Ho Lu, [2] King of Wu. Ho Lu said to him:

"I have carefully perused your 13 chapters. May I submit your theory of managing soldiers to a slight test?"

Sun Tzu replied: "You may."

Ho Lu asked: "May the test be applied to women?"

The answer was again in the affirmative, so arrangements were made to bring 180 ladies out of the Palace. Sun Tzu divided them into two companies, and placed one of the King's favorite concubines at the head of each. He then bade them all take spears in their hands, and addressed them thus: "I presume you know the difference between front and back, right hand and left hand?"

The girls replied: Yes.

Sun Tzu went on: "When I say "Eyes front," you must look straight ahead. When I say "Left turn," you must face towards your left hand. When I say "Right turn," you must face towards your right hand. When I say "About turn," you must face right round towards your back."

Again the girls assented. The words of command having been thus explained, he set up the halberds and battle-axes in order to begin the drill. Then, to the sound of drums, he gave the order "Right turn." But the girls only burst out laughing. Sun Tzu said: "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame."

So he started drilling them again, and this time gave the order "Left turn," whereupon the girls once more burst into fits of laughter. Sun Tzu: "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders are clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers."

So saying, he ordered the leaders of the two companies to be beheaded. Now the king of Wu was watching the scene from the top of a raised pavilion; and when he saw that his favorite concubines were about to be executed, he was greatly alarmed and hurriedly sent down the following message: "We are now quite satisfied as to our general's ability to handle troops. If we are bereft of these two concubines, our meat and drink will lose their savor. It is our wish that they shall not be beheaded."

Sun Tzu replied: "Having once received His Majesty's commission to be the general of his forces, there are certain commands of His Majesty which, acting in that capacity, I am unable to accept."

Accordingly, he had the two leaders beheaded, and straightway installed the pair next in order as leaders in their place. When this had been done, the drum was sounded for the drill once more; and the girls went through all the evolutions, turning to the right or to the left, marching ahead or wheeling back, kneeling or standing, with perfect accuracy and precision, not venturing to utter a sound. Then Sun Tzu sent a messenger to the King saying: "Your soldiers, Sire, are now properly drilled and disciplined, and ready for your majesty's inspection. They can be put to any use that their sovereign may desire; bid them go through fire and water, and they will not disobey."

But the King replied: "Let our general cease drilling and return to camp. As for us, We have no wish to come down and inspect the troops."

Thereupon Sun Tzu said: "The King is only fond of words, and cannot translate them into deeds."

After that, Ho Lu saw that Sun Tzu was one who knew how to handle an army, and finally appointed him general.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 19:16

Pangong lake was manned by ITBP and Chinese border guards, so that show what strategic or even tactical advantage it has. Pangong was more of a feint or starter to create noise of Indian hegemony and divert some resources before they sprung their south arm of their pincer in Galwan and then followed by main attack in Depsang. They are trying to stretch IA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Anoop » 22 Jun 2020 19:20

pankajs wrote:^^

Galwan valley, the Indian part, is FREE of Chinese intrusion/occupation. This should have been clear following all the coverage after June 15/16 clash.

Chinese have dug in massively @ Panang lake.


Only PP14 is free of PLA presence. They have significant buildup in their entry to the Galwan Valley, so that is a threat in being. They have not agreed to return to status quo ante May 6 and in fact have claimed the Galwan Valley, as per reports on the latest round of talks.

It is also interesting that it was the Indian MEA that informed the Chinese Foreign Ministry that we reserve the right to abandon the agreements of 1993, 1996 and 2005, relating to the non use of firearms. That suggests that we anticipate the use of force.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 22 Jun 2020 19:25

Chinese don't want India anywhere near the Karakoram pass and hence all their effort to push India out of DBO/Depsang plains. Galwan gambit was to choke our line of supplies to DBO/Depsang and get India to concede.

Apart from DBO road getting completed, there is another factor that make the timing critical. There is an alternate supply route under work i.e. the "Sasoma-Saser pass-Murgo" route, which will act as a backup for logistics to DBO/Depsang. AFTER that bypass is completed, Galwan gambit's relevance would have reduced considerably.

The DBO/Depsnag gambit via the Galwan gambit had to be executed before completion of the alternate route at the latest but preferably as early as possible before India further hardens its defenses in DBO/Depsang via the primary route along the Shyok river.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 22 Jun 2020 19:27

Anoop wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
Galwan valley, the Indian part, is FREE of Chinese intrusion/occupation. This should have been clear following all the coverage after June 15/16 clash.

Chinese have dug in massively @ Panang lake.

Only PP14 is free of PLA presence. They have significant buildup in their entry to the Galwan Valley, so that is a threat in being. They have not agreed to return to status quo ante May 6 and in fact have claimed the Galwan Valley, as per reports on the latest round of talks.

It is also interesting that it was the Indian MEA that informed the Chinese Foreign Ministry that we reserve the right to abandon the agreements of 1993, 1996 and 2005, relating to the non use of firearms. That suggests that we anticipate the use of force.

You spoke of their "intrusion" in Galwan region. There is NO intrusion on our side of the LAC as of now.

Doesn't matter ... They forward deploy you forward deploy ... Plus there is a mountain between the two sides that acts as a barrier to their ingress and IA will stay right next to the gap till they pull back. As far as I am concerned they can stay there as long as they like.

Only problem is when they cross the LAC as they have done @ Pangong lake.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby hemant_sai » 22 Jun 2020 19:34

What are chances of heavy rain in galwan valley n galwan river getting flooded?
Will such situation affect current deployment along galwan valley?
Just a curious qn. Is galwan area known to have less rain that such situation is very remote in terms of possibility?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 Jun 2020 19:38

hemant_sai wrote:What are chances of heavy rain in galwan valley n galwan river getting flooded?
Will such situation affect current deployment along galwan valley?
Just a curious qn. Is galwan area known to have less rain that such situation is very remote in terms of possibility?

IIRC ladakh-tibet area is a desert..rains have been increasing ...there were massive rains in 2012-13 period due to almost a decade of forestation and plantations by IA and that resulted in massive floods

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Manish_Sharma » 22 Jun 2020 19:48

Philip wrote:

Why is the DM going to Russia? ....


TV9 channel today was flashing news that Russia has delayed delivery of S-400 (xi called putin??)

Mainly to persuade Russia that instead of delaying they deliver earlier, also perennial problem of Russia's slow delivery of spare parts...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 20:02

hemant_sai wrote:What are chances of heavy rain in galwan valley n galwan river getting flooded?
Will such situation affect current deployment along galwan valley?
Just a curious qn. Is galwan area known to have less rain that such situation is very remote in terms of possibility?

Look at pictures of the bridge built in Shyok and that should give an idea of how flooded is atleast Shyok - and Galwan river would be in ballpark of that.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jun 2020 20:11

SAM stationed in Ladakh as per Republic considering airspace violations

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 20:14

Global Times whimpers: One can hear air escaping from the balloon even before it goes up

India retreats from deals with China: Global Times editorial
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1192452.shtml

The Indian government on Sunday gave "complete freedom of action" to Indian troops deployed along the China-India Line of Actual Control. This means Indian commanders will not be restricted in using firearms.

If this new approach is implemented and Indian troops shoot Chinese soldiers in the first place in future encounters, then the China-India border dispute will turn into a military conflict. This is not what most Chinese and Indian people wish to see.

China and India signed two bilateral agreements in 1996 and 2005, both of which said neither side shall use its military capability against the other side. This fundamentally limited the scale of conflicts in the border area, and the provision had been upheld during the June 15 clash.

Although "complete freedom of action" is the Modi administration's appeasement to the Indian army and public opinion, it is extremely irresponsible. It shows that India may be tearing up the two countries' most important agreements, and this will seriously increase the two troops' mutual distrust and add to the possibility of unwanted military conflicts. It is also against the consensus reached by the two sides' foreign ministers to cool down the situation in the Galwan Valley.

We would like to warn India's feverish nationalists not to lead New Delhi down the wrong path, and not allow India to repeat past mistakes.

They must know that in 1962, the two countries were of roughly equal strength, but today, China's GDP is five times that of India, and China's defense spending is more than triple India's according to West estimates. China is a highly industrialized country, while India is still in the primary stage of industrialization. Most of China's advanced weapons are manufactured domestically, but all of India's advanced weapons are imported. :roll:

There are things that the Indian army cannot get without using firearms, and even more unlikely for them to get these things through armed conflicts. That the Indian troops can defeat the People's Liberation Army (PLA) is utter fantasy.

After the June 15 clash, the Indian government showed rationality to prevent the situation from escalating. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said, "Nobody has intruded into our border, neither is anybody there now, nor have our posts been captured."

But India's extreme nationalists continue to put pressure on their government, risking an escalation of tensions at the border.

It is the Indian side that is unilaterally retreating from the bilateral agreements. India needs to be held responsible for the possible consequences.

We would like to tell PLA soldiers stationed at the China-India border that they must be extra careful when fulfilling their duties, and to be well prepared for war. If the Indian army fires the first shot, PLA soldiers must ensure that they have enough firepower to fight back. The most important thing is ensure their own safety and not to suffer losses in an armed skirmish triggered by the Indian side.

We also urge the PLA to prepare for the worst-case scenario. If the Indian army launches a border war, it must be taught a good lesson. We believe the PLA has sufficient capability to do so.

China does not want its relations with India to become sour, but some radical Indian forces have lost rationality. The Chinese army should display its resolve to fight back if and when the Indian side opens fire. Frontline Indian officers must keep in their minds that whoever fires the first shot will be wiped out by the PLA. :roll:

In history, India has miscalculated China's will several times, and been muddle-headed about the strength gap of the two sides, leading to its recklessness and the heavy price it had to pay. Wasn't the same true with the June 15 clash?

It is hoped that the Indian side will not repeat its historical mistakes and avoid an aggressive posture in its border dispute with China. It should head in the same direction with China and put the situation under the control of both sides.

pankajs
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Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 22 Jun 2020 20:15

Worth listening ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpylyweNAmk
Decoding The Chinese Military Build-Up {Watch StratNews Global Editor-in-Chief Nitin A. Gokhale discuss the Chinese military build-up with with Former XIV Corps Commander Lt. Gen Rakesh Sharma (Retd) and Former Intelligence Officer Jayadeva Ranade}


Vivasvat
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Posts: 336
Joined: 11 May 2005 08:03

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Vivasvat » 22 Jun 2020 20:18

The first chapter of the "Art of War" has the following tenets:

17. According as circumstances are favorable, one should modify one's plans.
18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.
24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.


Isn't this how the Chinese operate?

Cyrano
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Posts: 705
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 20:24

One more Gobar Times pearl :
Washington desperately wants to start trouble overseas for selfish interests
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1192454.shtml
Excerpt:

In the latest clash on the China-India border, Uncle Sam also played a role. As Arif Rafiq, president of Vizier Consulting LLC, a Morocco-based political risk advisory company, argued, India's Hindu nationalist government is emboldened by the US, yet "it would be a mistake for New Delhi to count on Washington's support.


Arrey Cheeni unkal, kahan se bhed bakri charaney waalonko pakad ke laatey ho ! Das hazaar km ke doori mein koi aur nahin mila kya ? :rotfl: :rotfl:

Cyrano
BRFite
Posts: 705
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 22 Jun 2020 20:28

Vivasvat wrote:The first chapter of the "Art of War" has the following tenets:

17. According as circumstances are favorable, one should modify one's plans.
18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.
24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.


Isn't this how the Chinese operate?


I know you know that I act like I don't know what you know so that you can't know whether I know or don't know when I don't act like I know you know.

Thats the Cheeni strategy now.


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