India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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SriKumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SriKumar » 22 Jun 2020 20:31

Chinese don't want India anywhere near the Karakoram pass and hence all their effort to push India out of DBO/Depsang plains. Galwan gambit was to choke our line of supplies to DBO/Depsang and get India to concede.

Apart from DBO road getting completed, there is another factor that make the timing critical. There is an alternate supply route under work i.e. the "Sasoma-Saser pass-Murgo" route, which will act as a backup for logistics to DBO/Depsang. AFTER that bypass is completed, Galwan gambit's relevance would have reduced considerably.

The DBO/Depsnag gambit via the Galwan gambit had to be executed before completion of the alternate route at the latest but preferably as early as possible before India further hardens its defenses in DBO/Depsang via the primary route along the Shyok river.
So it appears that they have plans to take and hold territory that more than just small pockets around the LAC border. My question is how many of these locations can be held year around (by India or China) for example, DBO, or areas of Despang plains. Do these areas get snowed in during winter and therefore abandoned?

I dont know for a fact but I am pretty sure if there is any loss of territory, GOI will use air assests to hit supply lines and logistics in the Tibet plateau/hinterland and not jsut the border, in Octoer, December and even January 2021. I dont know how China plans to support a division strength presence in that area through the winter (unless they are parked in PoK, which gives credence to (rumours) of why they would be landing their fighers in Skardu). If they planned for this, there must be some signs of it in terms of large supply dumps, roads with heavy military traffic etc. because this could go on for months.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 22 Jun 2020 20:35

Vivasvat wrote:The first chapter of the "Art of War" has the following tenets:

17. According as circumstances are favorable, one should modify one's plans.
18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.
24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.


Isn't this how the Chinese operate?


Two can play this game. And India demonstrated it well in Doklam. By not caving into the immense pressure and war cries of China at that time, Modi sarkar made all their psyops and IW investments go waste. All other major governments and intelligence agencies would have taken note of it and updated their playbook as to how to handle them.

Now that the strategic aim of Cheen has unfolded, it has lost all the elements of surprise.

The story of Sun Tsu indicates how Cheen will drive motivation for their soldiers and officers. Any general or CO who loses a battle will get their career destroyed even if they are allowed to live. So if and when any action happens, expect immense firepower to be displayed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Venkarl » 22 Jun 2020 20:40

pankajs wrote:Chinese don't want India anywhere near the Karakoram pass and hence all their effort to push India out of DBO/Depsang plains. Galwan gambit was to choke our line of supplies to DBO/Depsang and get India to concede.

Apart from DBO road getting completed, there is another factor that make the timing critical. There is an alternate supply route under work i.e. the "Sasoma-Saser pass-Murgo" route, which will act as a backup for logistics to DBO/Depsang. AFTER that bypass is completed, Galwan gambit's relevance would have reduced considerably.

The DBO/Depsnag gambit via the Galwan gambit had to be executed before completion of the alternate route at the latest but preferably as early as possible before India further hardens its defenses in DBO/Depsang via the primary route along the Shyok river.


I might have missed same opinion of others...but I strongly believe that they their eye is firmly on DBO since we made c5 landing in DBO@2015.
I am expecting some shock from Nepal end.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Hari Nair » 22 Jun 2020 20:42

Anoop wrote: ... can you comment on how you see the impasse that arises from the reported failure of the Lt.Gen level talks, can be resolved? If the PLA refuses to vacate the Galwan Valley intrusion, does India have the option of waiting it out through winter or will they have to be vacated by force? Or perhaps by changing the LAC elsewhere? It would appear from your post that the PLA does not have the luxury of time as the IA builds up its infrastructure and closes the window of opportunity for them. So the question is- is it in the IA's interest to wait it out and just prevent further intrusion, or does it need to vacate the intrusion by force?


I would go with RaviB's excellent posts on analysing the Mind of the Great Han - they are just biding their time with 'talks' to keep us dull 'Barbarians' occupied while they sharpen their swords for their planned, 'brilliant' manoeuvres. A skirmish definitely appears imminent.

I dare say they have crossed the Rubicon and will not disengage anywhere. A narrow valley like Galwan gives them some protection from the Barbarian's artillery and some insurance against non-precision weapons. However, if they so insist, I am sure us Barbarians will be kindly obliged to demonstrate to, and on them, as to what exactly will go wrong - there are several options.

As for their Mighty Han armour rolling in through the Depsang, - well even if they do roll in and reach the western bank of the Shyok, once again we will be obliged to show them, what can happen to armour that has been self-channelized into what effectively is a cul-de-sac. I suppose they will be relying on their Su-30 MKKs, J-10s and their ilk to attempt control the airspace over their armour.

On a different point - I just came across this propaganda video of the Mighty Han Warriors (not sure if posted earlier by any member):
https://twitter.com/WBYeats1865/status/1274748427985924102
Some baby-faced kids with schoolboy complexions and jazzy sunglasses munching snow with their energy meal after a 'long' patrol in Tibet....and they appear to be blissfully unaware that munching snow is not good for hypothermia or de-hydration...
The actual soldiers in high altitude are sunburnt with reddish-black tough skins, and have that brutal and weathered look about them - the Mighty Han idiots need to hire a better PR firm for their videos!
Last edited by Hari Nair on 22 Jun 2020 21:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Vivasvat » 22 Jun 2020 21:01

Times Now videos being circulated in which AIM says that the IA carried out a dam busting operation, and that he deducted this from the before and after satellite images of the Galwan river, showing dry and overflowing states respectively.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chetak » 22 Jun 2020 21:10

Galwan Valley clash: Modi government grants emergency financial powers to three services


NEW DELHI: The government has granted the three services emergency financial powers of up to Rs 500 crore per procurement project to buy ammunition and weapons in view of the escalating border standoff with China, government sources said Sunday.

The special financial powers have been given to the forces to procure weapons and military hardware at short notice to enhance their operational preparedness along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), they said.

The government has also relaxed certain rules to cut delays in military purchase like allowing the three services to procure required weapons and equipment from a single vendor, the sources said.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 22 Jun 2020 21:12

Oh man, we should stop posting what we're coming across on various media on PLA troops, China propaganda etc lest this thread be confused with Military Humour thread. I'm going on self imposed restraint on posting funny stuff unless its really really :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Venkarl » 22 Jun 2020 21:13

arshyam wrote:
Venkarl wrote:OT:
I am shocked to realize that I've been so close to Chinese post in 2014 when we went on ladakh ride.
https://goo.gl/maps/rTqHnu3HeRJK6L3x7

Interesting saar - so was there some sort of crossing point identifying the LAC?

Also, any idea what this structure to the west of your shared location was (https://goo.gl/maps/Q7kpqZQ7R2Sb4WRu6)? Not sure if it was constructed back then (looks fairly new), but any details you could share would be useful for us to build a picture. I was always under the impression that the entire Spanggur lake area was under Chinese control, but looks like we have a toehold.


I can confidently say that this bolded part is Chinese.

IT is just beamed the below location's screenshot as Moldo right beside the Chushul airstrip where both Major Generals have been in talks for last 6 hours.

https://goo.gl/maps/hSmxvekbeAwXBLQf6
Click it and zoom out to see what I mean.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 22 Jun 2020 21:16

The government has granted the three services emergency financial powers of up to Rs 500 crore per procurement project ..

Hope there is some oversight and coordination by the CDS

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Jarita » 22 Jun 2020 21:18

Another scuffle in Sikkim
https://twitter.com/AshutoshGhazal/stat ... 6026081281

They are upping the ante across the LAC

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 22 Jun 2020 21:23

There is no point increasing the budget decision power. It might get kits at specific tactical level, but the real mass will need to be driven by MoD.

155MM, LCH, BVR(Astra 1 & 2), AWACS, tankers, MRSAM, ECM. There are other things as well.

None of these can be bought with 500 crore.

I really hope GoI has sounded out to the private industry in ammo & artillery production.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Venkarl » 22 Jun 2020 21:32

Jarita wrote:Another scuffle in Sikkim
https://twitter.com/AshutoshGhazal/stat ... 6026081281

They are upping the ante across the LAC


Yes Sir.. Rajput regiment boys treating them with Gol Gappas

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SSridhar » 22 Jun 2020 21:33

ramana wrote:A^2, It's too simple am explanation. Bottom line it says PLA can do something contrary to Political leaders in China. Not true in past.

Especially after Xi reorganized the PLA, gave primacy to CPC and put an apparatchik in every platoon. CPC and therefore Xi has complete control.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 22 Jun 2020 21:40

pankajs wrote:Worth listening ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpylyweNAmk
Decoding The Chinese Military Build-Up {Watch StratNews Global Editor-in-Chief Nitin A. Gokhale discuss the Chinese military build-up with with Former XIV Corps Commander Lt. Gen Rakesh Sharma (Retd) and Former Intelligence Officer Jayadeva Ranade}



Can some gurus parse and summarise the Chinese deployments as per the map shown at 5:10 onwards, for us mere arm chair gernails. TIA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 22 Jun 2020 21:44

The more I think about Type 15, looks like it's job is to dash towards choke points and show down/block any Indian armor entry through valleys and subsequent breakouts.

35 ton with 1000hp engine would give mobile better performance, compared to T90 & T72. Coupled with wheeled IFV and ATGM, they can dash through a valley and block the entry point.

hold position until the Type 96/99 to come and take on Indian T tanks. Given that they will be firing the first shot, they have this advantage.

We need the IAF throw the kitchen sink at any such blockage.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 22 Jun 2020 21:45

chetak wrote:Galwan Valley clash: Modi government grants emergency financial powers to three services


NEW DELHI: The government has granted the three services emergency financial powers of up to Rs 500 crore per procurement project to buy ammunition and weapons in view of the escalating border standoff with China, government sources said Sunday.

The special financial powers have been given to the forces to procure weapons and military hardware at short notice to enhance their operational preparedness along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), they said.

The government has also relaxed certain rules to cut delays in military purchase like allowing the three services to procure required weapons and equipment from a single vendor, the sources said.

For a change one hopes we get some Indian gear too rather than just imports.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby AshishA » 22 Jun 2020 21:48

Btw Japan changed the name of island they controlled which is claimed by China. China is very angry with this. But as they are very insecure in relation to USA and Japan. Wouldn't any moves in South China Sea deeply terrify them?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 21:49

Problem with the Lt Gen's contention in Nitin Gokhale's interview that Chinese are not ready enough and they are just trying to surprise us and send us a message - I don't agree because they cannot surprise us twice - so no point in wasting a surprise. Our problem with DBO is this - if Chinese involve us in a battle of attrition - we will be in trouble if DSDBO and DBO air strips are under constant attack. In a sharp short battle we can hold off, but if it drags more than few weeks with attritions, it is Chinese who can replenish and reinforce much quicker and better.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 22 Jun 2020 21:51

nam wrote:The more I think about Type 15, looks like it's job is to dash towards choke points and show down/block any Indian armor entry through valleys and subsequent breakouts.

35 ton with 1000hp engine would give mobile better performance, compared to T90 & T72. Coupled with wheeled IFV and ATGM, they can dash through a valley and block the entry point.

hold position until the Type 96/99 to come and take on Indian T tanks. Given that they will be firing the first shot, they have this advantage.

We need the IAF throw the kitchen sink at any such blockage.


Missing LCH sorely now ! Imagine this bird darting our from behind ridge lines, firing a salvo at the lumbering tank columns squeezed into narrow valleys, and promptly ducking out of sight before any MANPAD can be aimed.

PLA braveHans will run back on foot, leaving the tanks behind for IA to recover for future use, to decorate traffic islands in the towns & villages of 16Bihar heroes !
Last edited by amar_p on 22 Jun 2020 21:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby AshishA » 22 Jun 2020 21:54

Is this upcoming cyber attack related to the Chinese?
Here is the official tweet
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheOfficialS ... 9469428737

Image
Last edited by AshishA on 22 Jun 2020 21:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby darshan » 22 Jun 2020 21:56

amar_p wrote:Missing LCH sorely now !


It would only be true if Indian military or CDS said so. The PM should bring up the list of all indigenous weapons and ask in open meeting if any of these untested and not meeting requirements items would have been of any help. Certainly need to get all invoiced on the record about their decisions.

The true political opposition would have grilled the GoI on this. But unfortunately India doesn't have two nationalist party system.


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 22 Jun 2020 22:05

Larry Walker wrote:Problem with the Lt Gen's contention in Nitin Gokhale's interview that Chinese are not ready enough and they are just trying to surprise us and send us a message - I don't agree because they cannot surprise us twice - so no point in wasting a surprise. Our problem with DBO is this - if Chinese involve us in a battle of attrition - we will be in trouble if DSDBO and DBO air strips are under constant attack. In a sharp short battle we can hold off, but if it drags more than few weeks with attritions, it is Chinese who can replenish and reinforce much quicker and better.

I agree, 2 weeks ago Gokhale & his Generals were saying this is a vanilla standoff. IMO that set of analysts are over-confident.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2020 22:08

Hari Nair wrote:
ramana wrote:I think it was an invasion plan that went awry. That rock dam and timing was to minimize water flow and drive those truck to DBO road and strike Leh. It got foiled. Shookla types were in the know to create FUD.


Ramana Saar,

Their Galwan movement is, in all likelihood, the southern arm of a pincer manoeuvre.
The northern arm of the pincer is the armour backed forces through Depsang (south of DBO).
The objective of the Great Superior Han Army appears to be slicing off the area south of DBO, which I had posted in an earlier thread.


A member in an earlier post had queried about the terrain around Depsang -

Well, around Depsang and to the east, its rolling plains - well suited for armour. Its not perfectly flat and its not exactly open sesame in all directions, however armour can be gainfully used. The terrain is ice and glacier-free, especially in this season.
To the west, the Chipchap river joins the Shyok (which flows towards the south). Beyond the western bank of the Shyok there is a sheer arc- wall of mountains with glaciers running into the Shyok.

In the event the Great Type-15 tanks of the Superior Army rolls in, the only way our land forces can come in for a counter attack in strength, is from the south. Hence the vulnerability of the sector.

The Great Superior Han Army has perhaps evaluated that this is their last campaign season to change the facts on the ground and even now, they are racing to ensure that objective before a limitation / perceived limitation of ours is overcome.

They appear to be gambling on their perceived advantage with superior tech and equipment and ability to bring forces in strength to pressure points of their choice since they think they still hold the initiative. However, equipment alone does not an Army make - as the Superior Hans recently discovered to their horror - that despite their well-planned and pre-mediated ambush, the 'Barbarians' from that 'inferior, dirty and poor vassal country' came screaming into Galwan Valley without firearms and mowed them down in substantial numbers.

Couple of other points -

When flying northwards at a low height through Shyok, the valley short of DBO suddenly opens up into an almost alien and hauntingly beautiful landscape -the rocks and ground are Red, interspersed with other brilliant colours and these contrast with the prominently dark-Blue high altitude sky. Its also unlimited visibility in clear weather - where one can perhaps see hundreds of kilometres into the Tibetan plateau.

A member posted some large scale maps of the area. These maps are vintage and I am not sure whether a few of the camping grounds (posts held by us) are correctly marked.


See the advantage of a military background!!! Thanks for your reply. Sorry, your earlier post was drowned out in the noise.
another Moglian Yak herder also came to same conclusion that this was beginning of an attack on to Leh. The timing, the terrain. the special forces, the trucks all show there was a plan that got foiled.

Thanks. Please be more engaged here.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Jun 2020 22:09

nam wrote:There is no point increasing the budget decision power. It might get kits at specific tactical level, but the real mass will need to be driven by MoD.

155MM, LCH, BVR(Astra 1 & 2), AWACS, tankers, MRSAM, ECM. There are other things as well.

None of these can be bought with 500 crore.

I really hope GoI has sounded out to the private industry in ammo & artillery production.


Small arms, ammunition, comms gear, thermal sensors, protective gear, COVID-19 test kits, medical supplies, improved mess rations and other items can be purchased to significantly improve front-line fighting capability.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 22 Jun 2020 22:10

amar_p wrote:
nam wrote:The more I think about Type 15, looks like it's job is to dash towards choke points and show down/block any Indian armor entry through valleys and subsequent breakouts.

35 ton with 1000hp engine would give mobile better performance, compared to T90 & T72. Coupled with wheeled IFV and ATGM, they can dash through a valley and block the entry point.

hold position until the Type 96/99 to come and take on Indian T tanks. Given that they will be firing the first shot, they have this advantage.

We need the IAF throw the kitchen sink at any such blockage.


Missing LCH sorely now ! Imagine this bird darting our from behind ridge lines, firing a salvo at the lumbering tank columns squeezed into narrow valleys, and promptly ducking out of sight before any MANPAD can be aimed.

PLA braveHans will run back on foot, leaving the tanks behind for IA to recover for future use, to decorate traffic islands in the towns & villages of 16Bihar heroes !



The Chinese due to their good roads are able to bring in Typ15 and wheeled IFV for a fast dash. If I look at the maps, I can see whole lot of flat valleys between the mountains.

Our main armor will have to come from the rear, to prevent getting caught in the open. The Chinese would do the same with their Type 96/99, however their roads will allow for dash towards the LAC using Type15 and wheeled IFV.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 22:12

T-15 will be to prevent a breakout of IA infnatry coming down the valleys into the plains. On our side, we will use T-72 to make a break through, so we will need to mass it for the punch and cannot disperse them to chase down the T-15's. Also, LCH kind will have tough time with huge mobile anti-air targetting them, even if these don't hit, it will still make line-of-sight targetting difficult as these will have to manoeuvre constantly. This is where we will miss Namica's and 3rd gen Mpat's and sufficient number of ULH's.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 22 Jun 2020 22:13

Ramana garu, Is the Mongolian Yak herder active on the forum ? If not his return would be great.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Sonugn » 22 Jun 2020 22:20

Good Gods, meeting between Lt Gen Harinder Sing & Maj Gen Liu Lin still ongoing, started at 11:30 AM.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2020 22:22

amar_p wrote:Ramana garu, Is the Mongolian Yak herder active on the forum ? If not his return would be great.


He is busy minds his yaks.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Anoop » 22 Jun 2020 22:31

Hari Nair wrote:I dare say they have crossed the Rubicon and will not disengage anywhere. A narrow valley like Galwan gives them some protection from the Barbarian's artillery and some insurance against non-precision weapons. However, if they so insist, I am sure us Barbarians will be kindly obliged to demonstrate to, and on them, as to what exactly will go wrong - there are several options.


Thank you for taking the time to reply, Sir.

A follow up question on their build up at Pangong Tso near Finger 4. Some reports suggests that the value of Finger 4 is that it provides space for them to build a beachhead to take naval action across the lake into the Southern Bank. But photographs of the area also show Finger 4 being exposed significantly from the Southern bank or from behind the Western ridges to air attack on any massed formation. Secondly, what does the PLA achieve by seeking to control the Southern bank - how will it supply any troops without being intercepted either by boats or by air?

In light of this, do you think the build up at Panggong Tso is their diversion for any planned action at Galwan valley?

Thank you in anticipation.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chetak » 22 Jun 2020 22:32

ramana wrote:
amar_p wrote:Ramana garu, Is the Mongolian Yak herder active on the forum ? If not his return would be great.


He is busy minds his yaks.


ramana ji,

where is peregrine, would you know.

has he left or what

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 22 Jun 2020 22:37

Would Chinese try a 1962 ? Capture and then pull back from Leh-Laddakh ? Makes India and Modi look like loosers and boosts PLA confidence ? Chinese version of shock-and-awe ? And if they time it so that India cannot regroup and counterattack before snow sets in, then it will cause considerable setback for India.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Venkarl » 22 Jun 2020 22:40

Larry Walker wrote:Would Chinese try a 1962 ? Capture and then pull back from Leh-Laddakh ? Makes India and Modi look like loosers and boosts PLA confidence ? Chinese version of shock-and-awe ?

At what cost Sir?
Information broadcasting in 1962 and 2020 are different.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ldev » 22 Jun 2020 22:41

In the air encounter dimension, besides the PLAAF fighters and bombers, do not discount their numerical advantage in long range surface to air missiles, the HQ-9 missile battery to be specific. Based on the Russian S-300 the first of which China bought from Russia in the mid 1990s, the HQ-9 has been upgraded with Chinese fire control radar and an evolution of the original missiles. Each HQ-9 battery consists of 8 TEL launchers each of which has 4 missiles, with a range of 200km-300km and the search and tracking radar.

It is highly probable that HQ-9s have already been deployed in southern Xinjiang province, Aksai Chin and Tibet. We are assuming that none of the 6 S400 systems which they have taken delivery off will be re-deployed to face India from their existing deployments in East and South East China.

The quote below is from Wikipedia:

In July 2015, the PLA deployed the HQ-9 close to the Kashmir LOC in preparation for a potential territorial conflict with India. The air defense systems were sent to the Hetian (Hotan) airfield located in the south of the Xinjiang region which is only 260 km away from the Kashmir region. According to Kanwa Defense Review, a Chinese-language magazine based in Canada, radar vehicles of HQ-9 air defense missiles have been spotted at the base and assessed that they are intended to defend China's western border from any potential air strikes launched by the Indian Air Force.[44]


and from another source:

HQ-9 units are mobile. The search radars (often a Type 120) is carried and operated from a heavy truck. This radar can be put into service in less than 15 minutes and shut down and be on the road again in 10 minutes. The Type 120 has a max detection range of 300 kilometers.


The IAF should have plans for neutralizing them early in an air war.
Last edited by ldev on 22 Jun 2020 22:49, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 22 Jun 2020 22:43

Larry Walker wrote:Would Chinese try a 1962 ? Capture and then pull back from Leh-Laddakh ? Makes India and Modi look like loosers and boosts PLA confidence ? Chinese version of shock-and-awe ? And if they time it so that India cannot regroup and counterattack before snow sets in, then it will cause considerable setback for India.

If they grab something, they won’t pull back. In 1962, they had no logistics to support what they grabbed so they pulled back. This time, they will not pull back.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 22 Jun 2020 22:45

Sonugn wrote:Good Gods, meeting between Lt Gen Harinder Sing & Maj Gen Liu Lin still ongoing, started at 11:30 AM.

I hope General Harinder Singh is telling them that we figured out what they are upto & will not sit idle anymore. They need to pull back immediately or face consequences.

The Chinese might be arguing like hell trying to buy time, but I hope General Singh sticks to his guns & doesn’t give them any leeway.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 22 Jun 2020 22:52

khan wrote:
Larry Walker wrote:Would Chinese try a 1962 ? Capture and then pull back from Leh-Laddakh ? Makes India and Modi look like loosers and boosts PLA confidence ? Chinese version of shock-and-awe ? And if they time it so that India cannot regroup and counterattack before snow sets in, then it will cause considerable setback for India.

If they grab something, they won’t pull back. In 1962, they had no logistics to support what they grabbed so they pulled back. This time, they will not pull back.

Sure, and we will sit by idly right? When there are 200 structures in Galwan and 200 on Finger 4, easy pickings as Nair sir has said. And other areas such as south bank of Pangong where we can do a countergrab.

Please, this is not 1962. We have an empowered & motivated military, we have a strong but non-emotional leadership, we understand the Chinese mind and we have decent assets (could be better, as always).

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 22 Jun 2020 22:53

yensoy wrote:Sure, and we will sit by idly right? When there are 200 structures in Galwan and 200 on Finger 4, easy pickings as Nair sir has said. And other areas such as south bank of Pangong where we can do a countergrab.

Please, this is not 1962. We have an empowered & motivated military, we have a strong but non-emotional leadership, we understand the Chinese mind and we have decent assets (could be better, as always).

I don’t mean fingers which is a sideshow, I mean Depsang plains.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 22 Jun 2020 22:55

khan wrote:
yensoy wrote:Sure, and we will sit by idly right? When there are 200 structures in Galwan and 200 on Finger 4, easy pickings as Nair sir has said. And other areas such as south bank of Pangong where we can do a countergrab.

Please, this is not 1962. We have an empowered & motivated military, we have a strong but non-emotional leadership, we understand the Chinese mind and we have decent assets (could be better, as always).

I don’t mean fingers which is a sideshow, I mean Depsang plains.

Right, if they grab X we grab Y. We don't need to countergrab X. This is basic lesson from Op Gibraltar. Yes it will enlarge the scope of the conflict but a stand has to be taken.


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