India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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NRao
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby NRao » 24 Jun 2020 23:07

@Anoop,

Can you please check the date on that?

@YashG,

I think that is about a week old news. ?????

I think Nitin is out-of-phase on this one.


However, while the Pangong Tso is about disputed land (fingers 5-8), this, the Galwan issue, if the structures are indeed Chinese, then China has occupied Indian territory, however small.

To me China is trying to tell India we will deescalate, but we will keep what we have. Peace.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby YashG » 24 Jun 2020 23:10

NRao wrote:Click here for Galwan, then click on the globe icon (bottom, right), then on 3D icon (bottom, right). It should place you in a 3D map of the Galwan River area. Use ctrl+cursor to pan around to get an idea of the playground..


Thanks this was really helpful!

Anyone who sees this would agree that occupying heights makes most sens here. Its like even rolling down a boulder from that height is enough. But
1. Positions at top are more targetable by artillery or the position in the valley
2. How do you supply a position at height

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SriKumar » 24 Jun 2020 23:12

amar_p wrote:I seriously doubt the Chinese would move armour down this narrow valley, its simply not wide enough. No way 2 armoured vehicles can pass each other, no where to make a U turn. One break down and everything halts.

The hastily put up road may not be able to withstand the load of 50 ton armour. Moreover, the whole thing can get washed away if there is significant rain or if the Galwan river swells.

Its a temporary road for a specific objective.

If India has the coordinates of the dam, either artillery or rockets can dismantle it ...just as their armor gets rolling.
(Force 10 from NAvarone). LOng term, if India builds a dam downstream from Shyok, water will back up to swallow the Galwan river bed and all teh structures there.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ramana » 24 Jun 2020 23:13

amar_p wrote:Thanks NRao.

What remains unclear is how PLA managed to stop water flow upstream on their side of the LAC, and dry out the river in May, and what IA did to rectify that. There have been reports of culverts, IA demolishing such structures etc. There have been other news reports of the Chinese altering flow of rivers from Tibet to Nepal so one can assume they have some experience doing this.

Seeing the fast water flow in the Galwan river now, building a robust structure to hold the water flow would have quickly lead to the formation of a lake which will not go unnoticed. No Pre-June 15th OSINT images have shown such a structure or lake so far.


They put rocks to slow the flow not dam it. Idea was to be able to ford it in those trucks.

And IA smashed it on the night 16 Bihar went in Veerabhadra mode.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 24 Jun 2020 23:13

amar_p wrote:I seriously doubt the Chinese would move armour down this narrow valley, its simply not wide enough. No way 2 armoured vehicles can pass each other, no where to make a U turn. One break down and everything halts.

The hastily put up road may not be able to withstand the load of 50 ton armour. Moreover, the whole thing can get washed away if there is significant rain or if the Galwan river swells.

Its a temporary road for a specific objective.

The battle/ war will not be fought anymore at GalwaN. DBO ,Depsang, will be the main thrust,we must see the diversion front of PAGONG Tso and hot springs.they will start here first and rapidly move in DBO with the main front. It will be a lightening response by PLA. enemy at the gates. They are NOT here to poke and prod. It’s an expensive affair for them to poke and prod. They will try to tire us out with the waiting game and simultaneously try skirmishes below the threshold of war to tire us by being continually watchful. Then at the opportune moment they will open all fronts. They are and have always been cold and calculated. War is the only option formCCP. AND IA is ready

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ramana » 24 Jun 2020 23:14

SriKumar wrote:
amar_p wrote:I seriously doubt the Chinese would move armour down this narrow valley, its simply not wide enough. No way 2 armoured vehicles can pass each other, no where to make a U turn. One break down and everything halts.

The hastily put up road may not be able to withstand the load of 50 ton armour. Moreover, the whole thing can get washed away if there is significant rain or if the Galwan river swells.

Its a temporary road for a specific objective.

If India has the coordinates of the dam, either artillery or rockets can dismantle it ...just as their armor gets rolling.
(Force 10 from NAvarone). LOng term, if India builds a dam downstream from Shyok, water will back up to swallow the Galwan river bed and all teh structures there.


You mean #ForceTenFromNarvane!!!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 24 Jun 2020 23:15

nachiket wrote:Image


If it is technically possible, i would setoff charges in the moutains on both sides where that red line touches. Have the debris cave in and block that narrow passage. Once that passage is blocked, it will fill up with water and flood up their supply line. The troops at the other end of the debris,facing us, can then be poisoned with rasam in their noodles.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby YashG » 24 Jun 2020 23:16

NRao wrote:@Anoop,

Can you please check the date on that?

@YashG,

I think that is about a week old news. ?????

I think Nitin is out-of-phase on this one.


However, while the Pangong Tso is about disputed land (fingers 5-8), this, the Galwan issue, if the structures are indeed Chinese, then China has occupied Indian territory, however small.

To me China is trying to tell India we will deescalate, but we will keep what we have. Peace.


The Nitin Gokhale video is totally fresh. Came out at 8.
Yes, I'd agree with you- they would de-escalate but want to keep the territory - sort of establishing some kind of upper hand on Indian establishment. Its of only Psy-ops value - otherwise the position gives them very little else. I dont know why Nikhil states, what he does. Its very counter intuitive - given the continuous Chinese supply lines. But I could defer to others who know more on this.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby NRao » 24 Jun 2020 23:26

YashG wrote:
NRao wrote:Click here for Galwan, then click on the globe icon (bottom, right), then on 3D icon (bottom, right). It should place you in a 3D map of the Galwan River area. Use ctrl+cursor to pan around to get an idea of the playground..


Thanks this was really helpful!

Anyone who sees this would agree that occupying heights makes most sens here. Its like even rolling down a boulder from that height is enough. But
1. Positions at top are more targetable by artillery or the position in the valley
2. How do you supply a position at height


One small point. IMVVHO, the IA+IAF, again, have been placed under the Clinton Act. Do not cross the LAC, in this case. I think GoI needs to amend their statements: As long as others do not want our land, we do not want theirs. Or, as long as others want peace, we also want peace. I think it would be nice to see the Forces operate beyond the borders.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 24 Jun 2020 23:28

Even if the Chinese did manage to get all the way down the Galwan river to reach Shyok, India has entrenched positions on the opposite bank and will simply mow them down with targeted fire. The first wave debris of men & material destroyed will block the gully and the rest of the column behind.

To make any worthwhile pincer movement, they have to get a huge number of vehicles and men out of Galwan river bed to turn right and go North along the Shyok river. The western heights of Shook are all Indian dominated and once again, the Chinese having survived the carnage at the mouth of Galwan will be offering themselves to IA for choice target practice on the banks of the Shyok.

If they were planning to dominate dozens of kms of heights on the opposite (east) side of the Shyok to counter Indian positions, it means once again lugging men & materials from the bottom of Galwan Vally, near that famous bend, and climb up to the top of the ridges overlooking eastern side of the Shyok, which means trudging up the mountains through several kms of Indian area where we can easily put waiting men on the ridges to welcome climbing parties.

If this is not a half assed plan I don't know what is.

Any which way you look at it, the southern pincer movement looks like Chinese mass suicide.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajo » 24 Jun 2020 23:29

Practice shots of the Eagle Special Forces :

Image

The Kung-Fu posturing might scare someone who had never seen a fight before.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 24 Jun 2020 23:35

The troops at the other end of the debris,facing us, can then be poisoned with rasam in their noodles.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby fanne » 24 Jun 2020 23:43

Someone posted - This sounds like chinese objective
1. Grand plan - Not easy to guess but say take DBO and some real estate around it
2. Stall for time to get all the offensive elements in place (they have longer logistics, but better logistic equipment) - By constantly engaging in deescalation talk and breaking it they are laughing and pi$$ing on our face - perhaps to effect our morale
3. Keep on pushing here and there - Defense establishment + political leadership is on a long term constant watch mode so as to not loose an inch of land (they have gamed Raul Gandi (I have purposefully misspelled it) and the coterie will make sure that govt if forced for forward deployment and thus stretching itself thin)). This constant watch will tire and wear them down. To defend each inch they will be deployed thin
4. If IA decides to pull back and deploy in strength to save position that are defensible, it will have to with draw from many forward position. PLA will then just roll down and take it. The only way to stop is to get Kinetic, but Chinese have perhaps rightly assumed that we will not get kinetic first.
5. After they have amassed successfully, tired us down by making us keep 24/7 watch (and perhaps record our pattern of supply/depots etc), stretched us thin, let us amass at wrong point through feint, they will do a lightning attack.
6. There is no question of IA bravery or even the wisdom of our political leadership...But having allowed the first 5 steps, we have already made our self week. PLA is starting the war from a very advantageous position. All this reading that it is because COVID, or JK bifurcation or trade deals may or may not be right. There plan perhaps was always this, they choose to execute it now.

Way out
1. Best was started kinetic few weeks ago when they were massing
2. Drop the assumption that the war could be avoided (this is a big one, I am myself only guessing, I have no crystal ball)
3. Regroup and attack massively. PLA has much of the troop still exposed. There 80% of the strength and 95% of the power is in the rear, but starting first we will at +20% men wise and +5% power wise.
4.If war were to happen, and chinese start we will rue all of these missed chances.
5. Outcome in either case is hard to say, we are however far better when we attack, rather than allow PLA to attack.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby srai » 24 Jun 2020 23:48

Image
Image
Last edited by srai on 24 Jun 2020 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Manish_Sharma » 24 Jun 2020 23:53

If there's war between Bharat and pakistan the Western Europeans & USA can pressurise and stop us from continuing the war by simply asking both the nations to repay our loans immediately.

But they don't have any such pressure point on China; in fact usa owes them money.

So in our war China will take hits in the beginning from our superior Mirages, Mig 29s & MKIs, Apaches, Vajra & M777s but as these Platinum bullets wear out, WAR WILL BECOME BETWEEN BHARAT's MIC vs CHINESE MIC.

Here Modi's non-understanding of the importance of indigenous weapons will put Bharat in tight spot.

Modi will beg france, Russia, usa to save us, but money is limited long war can't be fought on imported Apaches, M777s & Mirages.

China won't care about pressure of West, as its relations with west due to Corona is anyway gone South.

In 50s CIA did research on what is the basic criteria of NATION 'A' WINNING WAR FROM NATION 'B' OR VICE VERSA.

The answer was whichever nation produced Steel & Weapons more than the other will win.

Our past Armed FORCES LEADERS with their wrong opinion "all future wars will be short and sharp" have put the nation in this precarious position.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby hanumadu » 24 Jun 2020 23:53

If PP14 was inaccessible from our side, how are we patroling it daily? How did dozens or even hundreds of our men go there and past it during the night of june 15th? The Galwan river there is 15 meters wide.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby M_Joshi » 24 Jun 2020 23:54

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra
@Iyervval
·
13h
Today I give the full story of June 15th at Galwan, deep inside the Chinese side of the LAC. Extrapolated from almost 2 months of satellite imagery, it marks the first lethal, offensive action, india has initiated against China in 70 years


Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jun 2020 23:56

pankajs wrote:
darshan wrote:I should have stated the assumption that they don't want to utilize their ground forces and want to keep them in defensive posture. Nothing to do with spectacular except as chinese those are my strong points right now.

Essentially as chinese, I have realized that it's possible to loose face with a ground attack and I want to hold it back but want to utilize my plus points of being able to build and replenish things faster than India. For each dollar of mine, cause India to loose many times more. And, my main target for time being leadership change in India. I'll get my territory and shock and awe later while keeping everything at a tolerance level for now.

Would India exhaust its weapons? or opt to escalate to settle the business for once and all? Or.....

1. China - Hold back ground troops while launching remote bombs/missiles

India - Launch into Tibet and go after their military positions/bases. Rutog and Ngari, their main bases/supply depot are not too far from LAC. Ngari is 65km as the crow flies from Demchok and about 75 km by road.

Rutog is ~95 km as the crow flies from Chushul and ~110 km by road.

2. China - want to utilize my plus points of being able to build and replenish things faster than India.

India - Attack their main supply nodes in the area and cut off their line of supply. Again attack Rutog and Ngari that are their main re-supply bases/depot for Ladakh. This also cuts off the G219 from Lhasa.

Make a play for G219 on the other side i.e. as it enters the Aksai Chin from the Hotan. This is where the DBO become critical. From Karakoram pass the G219 is ~125 km NNE via a Chinese road. At this point the G219 is in a corridor like space with a wall of mountain on the Chinese side that do not have a bypass.

IFFF you are able to block G219 @ Ngari and on the Hotan side you have basically cut Aksi Chin off the rest of China.

China can throw all it missiles/rockets it wants but unless it it willing to fight on the ground Aksi Chin will be lost to it.
AND Indian Army does not have to go to Lhasa to win back Aksi Chin. They just have to make an advance of about 125 km on the two axis that I just touched.

What about the role of armed drones?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nachiket » 24 Jun 2020 23:57

Manish_Sharma wrote:If there's war between Bharat and pakistan the Western Europeans & USA can pressurise and stop us from continuing the war by simply asking both the nations to repay our loans immediately.

This is a ridiculous argument. Which loans are these in the Indian context? All govt. debt is paid off according to the decided schedule when the debt is undertaken from respective lenders. We have not defaulted on any of it nor are we in a danger of doing so, even if a war erupts. This is a whole new level of dhoti shivering right here.

BTW, India currently holds $150 billion in US treasury securities. That is US treasury debt that we own.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby darshan » 25 Jun 2020 00:00

When making sure that the civilization survives, the loans would be least of worries.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 25 Jun 2020 00:05

Coming to Depsang plains, the terrain slopes steadily upwards from the Chinese side to the Indian side. Between the DBO road and the LAC, there is a chain of not too steep ridge lines on the Indian side running parallel to the LAC, offering excellent view of the Depsang Plains terrain that slowly slopes down on the Chinese side.

I would expect Indian artillery positions & Anti Tank battalions on top of these low ridges to face Chinese forces that have nowhere to hide. Even if they somehow manage to reach the ridges, Indian armour will be waiting for them on the other side.

By the way there are some other small twisting rivulets/valleys joining Shyok from the west near Murgo, but they offer the same disadvantages to the Chinese as Galwan does. Of anything Shyok is farther away from LAC here than at Galwan, so Chinese forces have to traverse many more kms across hostile Indian territory to reach DS-DBO road. Hey, they can always try.

The only way to cross LAC at Depsang is to destroy Indian positions first, by Air Strikes and then roll up the armoured forces from the bald eastern plains below. That would need complete Air Dominance against IAF, overcome SAM batteries and AA fire. But hey, if PLA can have a suicide plan at Galwan, why can't PLAAF have one of their own above Depsang?

Given the level of IA & IAF preparedness both in numbers & equipment, the heart would go out of Chinese attack even before it begins.

This Chinese attack is going nowhere but home, with its tail tucked into the emasculated zone between its legs.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ramdas » 25 Jun 2020 00:08

@Manish: A long drawn, all out conventional war cannot be undertaken against a nuclear armed state. Do you think the deterrent will be kept idle if it gets to a MIC vs MIC fight that we are not going to win, and the consequences of loss are loss of Ladakh ? All in all, not first use is a very foolish idea in these situations: OK for diplomats to pontificate about it, but should be dumped aside if push comes to shove.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 25 Jun 2020 00:09

Folks, I hear many experts say long haul, PLA trying to tire us out. Our guys, are trained in that Terrain for years. They will patiently wait it out. My point is does PLA know when to strike . Where - is known to everyone. Are the PLA soldiers patient enough to wait it out weeks on end.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Jun 2020 00:17

human_sounding wrote:
NRao wrote:Imho, all this is Xi's horse and pony show.


Towards what end sir? What is the objective that China wants to achieve with this?

...



One possibility is that there is no calculated "end" as we would understand it that the Chinese are pursuing. It may just be stupid mindless vainglorious triumphalist belligerence on their part.

This is a long article / interview but offers a Chinese "liberal" perspective.

Xiang Lanxin on Wolf Warrior Diplomacy

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Anoop » 25 Jun 2020 00:18

I think the Chinese want India to fire the first shot, so that they can paint us as the aggressor. The world's coverage of this stand-off overwhelmingly coincides with India's position; such unqualified support was not seen even in the early stages of Kargil. Of course, that has less to do with sympathy for India and more to do with the anti-Chinese sentiments all over the world now.

India doesn't want to provide the Chinese the moral fig leaf that we broke the border agreement on the non-use of firearms. As a well entrenched defender, it suits us to delay any action and watch the evolving Chinese deployments.

What wouldn't be in India's interest is to start a shooting war unless there are significant gains. The danger is that the war of perception will force the GoI into a precipitous action that could result in a stalemate. The current situation also suits China because they are squatting, despite promising to withdraw, while India abides by the agreement on non-use of firearms. So there is an equilibrium where each side sees the benefit of non-escalation; hence the protracted negotiations.

Going forward, it seems that the only answer is to build up our border infrastructure and be able to do the same thing to them at times and places of our choosing.

There was a tantalizing statement by Gen. Parnaik on the India TV interview a couple of days ago. He said that unlike the 2013 standoff that was resolved only after applying such counterpressure on the PLA in another location, this time there are other options. Unfortunately, the interviewer did not press him to elaborate (he may not have done so anyway).

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby NRao » 25 Jun 2020 00:20

I do not think PLA has any plan on a strike. Never had, IMHO.

For them to strike, I read they need some 10 PLA guys for every 1 IA. At best they can go and occupy areas that offer no resistance - Pangong Tso and now that little triangle. IF either of them had Indian troops, I very much doubt *anyone* would have tried retaking those areas.

Second, I very much doubt that the PLA has the operational independence that the IA has. I could be wrong, but once that balloon goes up, I am betting IA units, at the smallest levels, will have more authority to do what they deem fit.

Having said that, the IA still needs more freedom than what they have been given so far, IMHO.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 25 Jun 2020 00:21

Iyersan wrote:Folks, I hear many experts say long haul, PLA trying to tire us out. Our guys, are trained in that Terrain for years. They will patiently wait it out. My point is does PLA know when to strike . Where - is known to everyone. Are the PLA soldiers patient enough to wait it out weeks on end.


An entrenched defending force like India is always at an advantage. The longer the wait the greater the advantage because the longer the Chinese cock their arm before throwing the punch, the weaker the punch will be.

Not to mention our supply lines are much shorter than theirs which stretch over 3000km.

The defending force will never question its purpose. The offensive force asks "why the f*** are we here?" in its head all the time. That alone makes a world of difference. Like it did on the night of June 15th.
Last edited by amar_p on 25 Jun 2020 00:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby bharathp » 25 Jun 2020 00:21

Manish_Sharma wrote:
In 50s CIA did research on what is the basic criteria of NATION 'A' WINNING WAR FROM NATION 'B' OR VICE VERSA.

The answer was whichever nation produced Steel & Weapons more than the other will win.

Our past Armed FORCES LEADERS with their wrong opinion "all future wars will be short and sharp" have put the nation in this precarious position.


this is because a prolonged war will mean involvement of WMDs. the assumption is - no one will want to go that far

if the fight comes to chinese MIC vs Indian MIC and we KNOW that we cant defeat the chinese MIC, why will we not employ the WMDs or at least threaten to do so?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Sumair » 25 Jun 2020 00:22

Dont know if this has been posted here before. A very different narrative; that is that our boys went in to demolish the dam knowing fully well of the repercussions. Long but worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCTTDcUxC40

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rkirankr » 25 Jun 2020 00:29

Iyersan wrote:
rkirankr wrote:I think I once mentioned earlier, are we , the common citizens, the jingos ready for war. The Govt, Defense forces might be, are we. One or two rockets on population centers, would we still be jingos


So we consider that as a possibility and be peaceniks?

Nope, I am worried, it will be the citizens who will let down the security forces

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Manish_Sharma » 25 Jun 2020 00:32

bharathp wrote:...... why will we not employ the WMDs or at least threaten to do so?


Chinese have more warheads and much rigorously tested warheads, in fact they put there warheads on missiles and bombers; tested them in open air.

We did quick test, which even the man in charge of MEASURING POWER OF BLAST Santanan said it's a fizzle.

Nuclear bombs won't finish nations, it will be about who recovers faster.

Shanghai total area 6,340 km²

Mumbai total area 603.4 km²

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sajaym » 25 Jun 2020 00:33

ramdas wrote:...Do you think the deterrent will be kept idle ...not first use is a very foolish idea in these situations...should be dumped aside if push comes to shove.


Here also we are in luck -- the same people who lit the fuse in 1998, are back in power. However, I would've like it if we had an EMP bomb on our menu. If we detonate it in the river valleys low over the chinese, the mountains will shield the effects from our forces. Then we can literally club them to death with cricket bats.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 25 Jun 2020 00:33

NRao wrote:I do not think PLA has any plan on a strike. Never had, IMHO.

For them to strike, I read they need some 10 PLA guys for every 1 IA. At best they can go and occupy areas that offer no resistance - Pangong Tso and now that little triangle. IF either of them had Indian troops, I very much doubt *anyone* would have tried retaking those areas.


Very likely NRao ji.

They seem to have thought an overwhelming display of massed up forces will actually overwhelm India. May be they got that from much touted "The fArt of War" or from the opening ceremony of Beijing Olympics.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby kumarn » 25 Jun 2020 00:34

rkirankr wrote:
Iyersan wrote:
So we consider that as a possibility and be peaceniks?

Nope, I am worried, it will be the citizens who will let down the security forces


Kuch bhi? Even my better half is pissed off with the Chinese and saying, if the fight is without weapons even we women will go and kill the Chinese by our belans! Belan se peet peer ke maar dalenge! Neither of us has a forced background.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby darshan » 25 Jun 2020 00:35

rkirankr wrote:
Iyersan wrote:
So we consider that as a possibility and be peaceniks?

Nope, I am worried, it will be the citizens who will let down the security forces


Any given day it will be bureaucracy, Congress MoUs, CCP MoUs, etc. will let down security forces before the citizens. Rural citizens voting for the present govt and supplying soldiers will stand by the forces and the leader they elected.

Netflix and stand up comedy watchers don't matter here.

amar_p
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby amar_p » 25 Jun 2020 00:36

sajaym wrote: However, I would've like it if we had an EMP bomb on our menu. If we detonate it in the river valleys low over the chinese, the mountains will shield the effects from our forces. Then we can literally club them to death with cricket bats.


While you're at it, grab some invisibility cloaks, will you ? Just in case...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ramdas » 25 Jun 2020 00:37

My own reading is that CCP/PLA intended to occupy areas that were not held/undefended, dig themselves in, and help anti national forces within India such as the INC by taking some sheen of NaMo. At the same time, they show their strength by pulling off such salami slicing.

@manish: WMDs are about causing unacceptable damage. Does PRC want to gain Leh for losing Shanghai/Beijing ? If you refuse to understand this, your intentions behind posting your defeatist messages should be suspected.
Last edited by ramdas on 25 Jun 2020 00:39, edited 1 time in total.

KLNMurthy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Jun 2020 00:38

Manish_Sharma wrote:
bharathp wrote:...... why will we not employ the WMDs or at least threaten to do so?


Chinese have more warheads and much rigorously tested warheads, in fact they put there warheads on missiles and bombers; tested them in open air.

We did quick test, which even the man in charge of MEASURING POWER OF BLAST Santanan said it's a fizzle.

Nuclear bombs won't finish nations, it will be about who recovers faster.

Shanghai total area 6,340 km²

Mumbai total area 603.4 km²

So, what would you do in this situation if you were in charge of India?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 25 Jun 2020 00:39

KL Dubey wrote:^^If its an isolated tent, then I agree it is hard to tell. But there is a lot more there that makes it clear the Chinese have occupied PP14.

I am still unclear as to the value of doing that unless it is a beachhead for an impending attack. The Chinese cannot hold on to that position once the buildup behind them packs up and leaves. Again it seems like they are needling us to fire the first shot.

Occupation means that we have to deploy forces to counter no.
Forces we could use elsewhere!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Jarita » 25 Jun 2020 00:45

nachiket wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:If there's war between Bharat and pakistan the Western Europeans & USA can pressurise and stop us from continuing the war by simply asking both the nations to repay our loans immediately.

This is a ridiculous argument. Which loans are these in the Indian context? All govt. debt is paid off according to the decided schedule when the debt is undertaken from respective lenders. We have not defaulted on any of it nor are we in a danger of doing so, even if a war erupts. This is a whole new level of dhoti shivering right here.

BTW, India currently holds $150 billion in US treasury securities. That is US treasury debt that we own.


Please repeat
India is a civilisation not only an economy
India is a civilisation not only an economy

When Mao made his rounds in 1962, China was nowhere economically but they knew what they wanted. Arguments about economy sound too much like "not a blade of grass grows there".

If India is a civilization, all her territory is priceless. Gen Sagat Singh had that mindset and it got us decades of peace.


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