India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

[Rs_singh]

I’ve been lurking on this forum since early 2000s but lost touch (and my old account) after I left desh. Loved the posts from RaviB about the Chinese psyche. I can definitely second a lot of that. Let me share my own experience of interacting/training with PLAGF officer cadets during a mutual training exchange. Note- this is from 2009, a bit dated but perhaps still relevant and hopefully gives you an insight into their tactical thinking.

I believe a few of them from various combat/non combat arms 3rd yr cadets visited us for a summer 12wk training exchange. These observations are from my own recollections of our debrief after every ex. In no way will I try to extrapolate this to their entire org nor will I generalize - I can’t stress this enough. So, here goes:

1. We were pleasantly surprised by their attention to detail, drill and immaculate uniforms. Even their BDUs and boots did not have any appearance of thorough use. This was the first thing that caught everyone’s eyes. Specially, in the infantry, BDUs get dirty, boots get worn and there are visible signs of use. Perhaps, they got new uniforms, I really don’t know. Perhaps it was an “image” exercise. In hindsight, likely the latter.

2. Ok, now onto the good stuff. We had such mil ex before as I would think they had too. They spoke decent English but always mandarin amongst themselves. Figures. Our first ex was a simple nav ex. Certain WPs, a map, a compass but no load. Remember, these were 3rd yr cadets and like West Point their academy has a 4 yr system. We all knew our step count both running and walking - this had been one of the first things we learned. They too knew their step count but only for walking. Your step count changes when you run and so your distance estimates vary by if you’re running or walking. For some reason, they were not to happy about getting lost , luckily for them it was a mixed team, there was always one of us around for course correction.

3. Several glaring tactical errors soon started to become clear as more ex were conducted. They would never fill their canteens to the brim or maybe they drank from it before a manouver. So, we could always tell they were coming from the sloshing of the water in their canteens.

4. They would never black tape the metal on their LBVs so a small glint from the sun or a flare would reveal their pos.

5. They had limited contact training. Our NCOs encouraged us to tackle each other and get up close and personal to get over the fear of a close fight. It became apparent very soon that either they had played contact sports in a controlled environment or not at all. After the first couple punches landed they would disengage very quickly.

6. During a pure us vs them scenario, they repeatedly failed to adapt tactics as the sit evolved. To me personally their training appeared to be very static in nature - the enemy would come from X, you will be at Y, you will shoot first and enemy will lose. They were not prepared for what if enemy came at you from A or B or C. This fact showed through in multiple ways.

7. They were great at shooting from a static pos to a static tgt. Did not perform well in moving and firing sit.

One last thing before I bore you all with tactical BS - it’s not as if we knew it all or didn’t make mistakes but we would own it in the AAR immediately following said ex. From them, you would only get laughter. They would literally laugh when they were embarrassed or made mistakes. No ownership, no self correction.

In summary, their training appeared to be very bookish with limited options for leadership development, taking ownership or actual learning. Or perhaps, that’s how it appeared to us. They were great at imitation but rarely, if ever, cared to learn the Why. I can give more examples of this at some other time.

One final request , can dear leader 11 have an additional name? I propose GEISHA - great emperor incumbent of the superior Han army.

Keep fighting the good fight y’all! And apologies for the long, very long, post.

[AshishA]

The Chinese have frankly done us a favor by capturing till Finger 4. Unless our adversary kick us, we don't learn.

Too much "chalta hai" attitude among our policy makers and MoD. No reforms of procurement process, nor real effort towards building MIC. Services only wants imports and DPSU screwing up whatever we build locally.

Along with this allowed the Chinese to completely dominate our economy and manufacturing.

Now there is a sense coming that we could be facing a 2 front war in real. If the Chinese pull back, I am willing to bet that it will be back to "status quo" in GoI & MoD.

I want the Chinese keep holding the area, so that the thorn is always reminding us of our "status quo" habit.

Agree ..

Additionally, every politico thinks he brings some special to the table and he would be able to turn the tide with his handling of the issue. Modi though he understood the Chinese more than any of his predecessors. Thus Modi allowed the Chinese to dominate our economy without getting anything in return, thinking that once they were embedded, their animosity would fade away.

He got played by the Chinese and he knows it. Modi's one trait is that he does not forget when people try cutting him to size. The Chinese just have made that play and Modi is not going to forget that.

Adding to the point above, I believe crisis brings out the best in Modi. He did transform Gujarat when it was going through one of their worst phases (earthquakes, riots etc etc). So I believe when all of this is over, Chinese instead of cutting Modi to size would have strengthened his resolve to make India a military power. We must make no mistake. Modi is NOT Nehru. He is not going to be broken by the likes of Chinese. I expect a lot of changes post this event.

[NRao]

Try this in addition to Google Maps:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?qu ... 29/78.0245

[RaviB]

Also to trigger a landslide we need to vacate the heights yes. Also what is the rock formation like? Is it easy to trigger a landslide that can block the valley floor?

I'm not familiar with the exact geomorphology of the Galwan valley but generally, slopes in the area crumble easily and it's usually an aggregate of gravel and large rocks. Very little vegetation also makes the slopes unstable. In fact I don't think any drilling would be necessary, a large explosion in the valley, due to being confined would certainly lead to the collapse of a couple of overhangs.

[Jarita]

..
Atheist China cannot stomach India being the homeland of the Buddha,which has spread and reached all over Asia and the Far East,immensely popular too.
..

Perhaps different people either come to India for R&R or for stability in place of origin, so as to say.

Anything else is just cacaphony. Which primarily means that as Indians we should not take things for granted. Things must be tough for good people out there so why waste resources otherwise.

This theater has many other factions involved

[NRao]

Xi takes China back 40 years with India scuffle

TOKYO -- The clash that erupted between Chinese and Indian forces in the northern Indian region of Ladakh on June 15 resulted in the first casualties suffered between the Asian neighbors in 45 years.

The reported details of the battle are quite bizarre. At an altitude of 4,000 meters, in freezing temperatures, the troops engaged in a physical fight; no firearms were used.

Through an exchange of blows with nail-studded clubs, stone-throwing, falls into a deep valley and being left injured in the icy climate, a total of 20 Indian soldiers died. Although Beijing has kept a tight lid on information, many are believed to have been killed or injured on the Chinese side as well.

There is a sufficient risk that the Chinese and Indian forces on the ground now harbor stronger grudges against each other. No phone call between foreign ministers can easily erase such a bloody skirmish.

While it is not clear which side initiated the actions, it is easy to imagine that news of the clash ruined Chinese President Xi Jinping's 67th birthday, which fell on that day.

Xi and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi have a history of awkward birthday incidents.

On Sept. 17, 2014, Modi's 64th birthday, Xi was in Ahmedabad, in the Indian leader's home state of Gujarat.

The leaders took a walk together and sat side by side on a swing together, showing off their close relationship. They then attended a dinner to celebrate Modi's birthday.

But during the feast, Modi suddenly received an inconceivable report. He was informed that Chinese forces had intruded into the northern part of India in the Kashmir region across the Line of Actual Control and were squaring off with Indian forces at close range.

The LAC is a loose demarcation that separates the two countries where their border is in dispute.

As soon as Modi received the report, he asked Xi what the intrusion was all about. It is said the Chinese side had not grasped the full details of the incident at that stage.

This was only two years into Xi's rule, and suspicions were that the commander in chief had yet to take full control of the country's powerful military.

Naturally, the incident ruined the atmosphere at the dinner ahead of an official summit between the two leaders the following day. During that summit, Modi vociferously demanded the Chinese troops' withdrawal, deviating from his original scenario.

Xi lost face.

After that, the Chinese leader tightened his grip on the armed forces through highhanded measures that saw even the former top uniformed officers arrested one after another and high-ranking officers taking their own lives.

The last deadly clash between China and India came in 1975. Thirteen years earlier, in 1962, a large-scale armed clash erupted in the border area.

For China, the 1960s and 1970s were a period of turbulence and war.

During the 1966-1976 Cultural Revolution, China was in total chaos, leading to the deaths of countless people.

In 1969, China and the Soviet Union militarily engaged along their shared border northeast of Vladivostok.

In 1979, China and Vietnam fought a short but bloody war.

But after China settled on its "reform and opening-up" policy under Deng Xiaoping, prioritizing economic growth and fully normalizing relations with the U.S., the number of fatalities from conflicts between China and India dropped to zero.

This month's clash, however, raises concerns that China may be returning to its thinking and actions of a half-century ago.

Since that untimely birthday skirmish in 2014, Xi has taken full control of the military. He unleashed his anti-corruption campaign on disobedient military personnel and spearheaded drastic organizational reforms. What if he is now itching to take a page out of the playbooks of Mao Zedong and Deng and test his military in a full-scale battle?

Today's China is significantly different from what it was half a century ago. Its weaponry has been significantly upgraded, and any such adventurism would pose great danger.

Pent-up animosity between China and India pose another worry.

In 1998, when India conducted an underground nuclear test, a high-ranking Chinese Foreign Ministry official said publicly that India "should worry about the potatoes it feeds its own people first."

The startlingly belittling, insulting and cynical remark treated India as a poor country facing a chronic food shortage.

Twenty-two years on, China and India have both grown into major countries and occupy important positions as emerging economies.

China, with 1.4 billion people, and India, with 1.3 billion, are the world's two most populous countries, accounting for 35% of the global total.

Meanwhile, China's relative silence on the June 15 border battle is disconcerting. No casualties have been announced. Media reports about the clash are tightly restricted within China.

Even Hu Xijin, the hawkish editor-in-chief of the Global Times has remained fairly subdued, tweeting that India should not "misread China's restraint as being weak."

China's reticence reflects the difficult situation it finds itself in.

China has spread its battle lines too thin by sowing seeds of friction everywhere, north, south, east and west.

To its east, across the Pacific, China is locked in a serious confrontation with President Donald Trump's America.

Tensions are also running high closer to home, as China steps up aerial activity around Taiwan and maritime activity around the Japanese-administered Senkaku Islands.

To its south, China is militarizing the South China Sea. Beijing is also poised to introduce a national security law on Hong Kong that will undermine the former British colony's current legal system.

In the northwest, China has come under fire from the international community over human rights in its Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

Under these circumstances, China's hushing of the latest military clash with India is understandable.

India, for years, has been highly alarmed by China's "string of pearls" strategy of supporting the construction of ports in countries encircling India.

There is a possibility that the latest military clash will drive the traditionally "nonaligned" India to the U.S. side, which is pressing ahead with its "Indo-Pacific strategy."

Tied by a strange destiny, Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi met in Wuhan in April 2018.

They took a walk together on the banks of East Lake, accompanied only by their interpreters, in a manner that reflected their close relationship.

It was Mao's favorite retreat.

Little did they know that two years later, the city would become the epicenter of the coronavirus.

Today, India has the fourth-highest number of coronavirus cases in the world. If China is deemed to have exploited India's ordeal, the emotional confrontation between the two countries will further escalate

[Rony]

Chellaney

Xi’s regime has sought a short, quick victory to overawe India and shore up its own standing at home and abroad. Three major troop clashes (and several smaller ones) have occurred at border points, each triggered by a PLA attack. Here’s my assessment of the outcome of each clash.

https://twitter.com/Chellaney/status/12 ... 13418?s=20

[ldev]

As an FYI, there are companies - like https://www.spymesat.com/ - that sell real-time sat pictures. Cost depends on the resolution. But seems very affordable - max I have come across is around $50 for a meter res. I suppose supply-demand equations apply.

These prices like Planetlabs appear to be $ per sq km. Normal minimum order size for for most of these image providers for new tasking is a width of 5 km and a minimum order size of 100 sq km. So in this case you are looking at $ 5000. Resolution can be as good as 40 cm.

[nam]

6. During a pure us vs them scenario, they repeatedly failed to adapt tactics as the sit evolved. To me personally their training appeared to be very static in nature - the enemy would come from X, you will be at Y, you will shoot first and enemy will lose. They were not prepared for what if enemy came at you from A or B or C. This fact showed through in multiple ways.

I have mentioned this earlier. The only war PLA has actually won was in 62. ALL the wars that PLA has fought, was started by it. All of it.

They will be caught flat footed, if someone else preempt them. PLA knows it has to the first one firing to get any desirable result. So you need robots, who do as told. This also means PLA may not stop unless there is some element of "victory/ change in status quo". example back & forth in Korea.

Heavy dependence on artillery (majorly SPH) and rockets. We should expect a heavy barrage of artillery and rockets if balloon goes up. We should throw the kitchen sink at PLA on LAC..

[Jarita]

Adding to the point above, I believe crisis brings out the best in Modi. He did transform Gujarat when it was going through one of their worst phases (earthquakes, riots etc etc). So I believe when all of this is over, Chinese instead of cutting Modi to size would have strengthened his resolve to make India a military power. We must make no mistake. Modi is NOT Nehru. He is not going to be broken by the likes of Chinese. I expect a lot of changes post this event.

He thrives on it. They would have been better off biding their time for the next decade or so. But as I have said above. This theater has a lot more factions involved.
The CCP itself has multiple factions, including the Mao factions who believe they have been sidelined. For some who might be shocked the CCP also has a large methodist faction. Something strange is happening there.
Add to it the Sam intervention in Nepal should be alarming to all. You don't want Sam intervention directly in this theater. 100% there is some intervention within the CCP but coming out direct with Nepal is not good news for us.

[NRao]

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/127 ... 22466?s=19
Closer to strategic DBO, China opens new front at Depsang, moves in 18 km into the Indian side of the line of actual control by reaching the bottleneck known as Y-Junction, says @SushantSin in the piece.

https://t.co/DyH4bzdLmY

This news coupled with the other news piece that Chinese army "vehicles" have reduced in Galwan valley gives me a feeling that they are ready to push forward. The earlier equipment of Chinese in Galwan valley upto PP14 was all civil construction equipment. Now that the road is built - they are moving out non-fighters and contractors as it is a possible area of conflict. Just my fears.

Looks like Thoise is about 50-55 Kmish from the LAC? So, 18 Kms into India is about 1/3 the way to Thoise.

India might as well roll out the red carpet.

[pankajs]

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/12 ... 3658482693

Shiv Aroor @ShivAroor

Army friend I just spoke to in Ladakh cautions against any 'excitement' about de-escalation. In his words: "Running commentary on each guy or truck that pulls back makes no sense. This is long haul. Trust non-existent. We are fully prepared to see this stretch out."

GOI/IA preparing for the long haul.

However, Chinese statements have started getting strident putting all blame on India. Usually it has been observed that the Chinese try investing a cause/reason before attack. We might be entering such a period.

[ks_sachin]

Also to trigger a landslide we need to vacate the heights yes. Also what is the rock formation like? Is it easy to trigger a landslide that can block the valley floor?

I'm not familiar with the exact geomorphology of the Galwan valley but generally, slopes in the area crumble easily and it's usually an aggregate of gravel and large rocks. Very little vegetation also makes the slopes unstable. In fact I don't think any drilling would be necessary, a large explosion in the valley, due to being confined would certainly lead to the collapse of a couple of overhangs.

Maybe maybe not. Whoever is that tactically the best option?

[Rs_singh]

I'm not familiar with the exact geomorphology of the Galwan valley but generally, slopes in the area crumble easily and it's usually an aggregate of gravel and large rocks. Very little vegetation also makes the slopes unstable. In fact I don't think any drilling would be necessary, a large explosion in the valley, due to being confined would certainly lead to the collapse of a couple of overhangs.

Maybe maybe not. Whoever is that tactically the best option?

I’m not familiar with IA kit both direct and indirect, but, from a 100ft view - would depend on 2 factors - are you defending or attacking and is the valley narrow or wide. Narrow valleys are a bad idea to dominate physically, you’d much rather dominate through obs holding higher ground.

[Armuan]

I’ve been lurking on this forum since early 2000s but lost touch (and my old account) after I left desh. Loved the posts from RaviB about the Chinese psyche. I can definitely second a lot of that. Let me share my own experience of interacting/training with PLAGF officer cadets during a mutual training exchange. Note- this is from 2009, a bit dated but perhaps still relevant and hopefully gives you an insight into their tactical thinking.

I believe a few of them from various combat/non combat arms 3rd yr cadets visited us for a summer 12wk training exchange. These observations are from my own recollections of our debrief after every ex. In no way will I try to extrapolate this to their entire org nor will I generalize - I can’t stress this enough. So, here goes:
....

Thanks for sharing your observations. Very insightful. I hope their outlook and mettle stays the same.

[Armuan]

Dr. APR 
@drapr007
"Big Intelligence Input : Amid ongoing tension with China on eastern border, Reportedly 3 airports of Pakistan hv been taken over by PLAAF -Kandanwari, Rahim Yar Khan & Sukkur. More than 20 PLAAF fighter jets & hundreds of PLAAF soldiers hv been seen in the area. IAF is on alert."
8:18 pm · 25 Jun 2020

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/127 ... 64736?s=20

[RaviB]

I’ve been lurking on this forum since early 2000s but lost touch (and my old account) after I left desh. Loved the posts from RaviB about the Chinese psyche. I can definitely second a lot of that. Let me share my own experience of interacting/training with PLAGF officer cadets during a mutual training exchange. Note- this is from 2009, a bit dated but perhaps still relevant and hopefully gives you an insight into their tactical thinking.

<snip to not crowd the thread>
One final request , can dear leader 11 have an additional name? I propose GEISHA - great emperor incumbent of the superior Han army.

Keep fighting the good fight y’all! And apologies for the long, very long, post.

Thank you for your kind words and this wonderful post. I haven't had much contact with Chinese soldiers, so this is very enlightening.

I was thinking Nau-Do-Gyarah but I think GEISHA is perfect

Something that's also very relevant to understanding the PLA: Corruption in China’s Military Begins With Buying a Job https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rance-exam

[Larry Walker]

Dr. APR 
@drapr007
"Big Intelligence Input : Amid ongoing tension with China on eastern border, Reportedly 3 airports of Pakistan hv been taken over by PLAAF -Kandanwari, Rahim Yar Khan & Sukkur. More than 20 PLAAF fighter jets & hundreds of PLAAF soldiers hv been seen in the area. IAF is on alert."
8:18 pm · 25 Jun 2020

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/127 ... 64736?s=20

Vow .. is India unleashing it's Strike Corp on RYK ?? All 3 airfields I believe are around this Paki underbelly.

[kit]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 20learned.
According to Nepal watchers, one of China’s key objectives is to create a buffer zone between TAR and Nepal to suppress the Tibetan movement.

[Sonugn]

New radar, water pipelines: Satellite images decode Chinese troop movement in Ladakh's Depsang

[RaviB]

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 9156648961

Nitin A. Gokhale
@nitingokhale
So I reconfirm to you that these ‘pink things’ in this much circulated satellite pix is indeed of Indian ‘sangars’ on the Indian side of the LAC in Galwan valley. The colour is pink because of a certain equipment that I leave you to guess. So much for satellite imagery analysis!

[chola]

I’ve been lurking on this forum since early 2000s but lost touch (and my old account) after I left desh. Loved the posts from RaviB about the Chinese psyche. I can definitely second a lot of that. Let me share my own experience of interacting/training with PLAGF officer cadets during a mutual training exchange. Note- this is from 2009, a bit dated but perhaps still relevant and hopefully gives you an insight into their tactical thinking.

I believe a few of them from various combat/non combat arms 3rd yr cadets visited us for a summer 12wk training exchange. These observations are from my own recollections of our debrief after every ex. In no way will I try to extrapolate this to their entire org nor will I generalize - I can’t stress this enough. So, here goes:

...

5. They had limited contact training. Our NCOs encouraged us to tackle each other and get up close and personal to get over the fear of a close fight. It became apparent very soon that either they had played contact sports in a controlled environment or not at all. After the first couple punches landed they would disengage very quickly.

6. During a pure us vs them scenario, they repeatedly failed to adapt tactics as the sit evolved. To me personally their training appeared to be very static in nature - the enemy would come from X, you will be at Y, you will shoot first and enemy will lose. They were not prepared for what if enemy came at you from A or B or C. This fact showed through in multiple ways.

7. They were great at shooting from a static pos to a static tgt. Did not perform well in moving and firing sit.

...

One final request , can dear leader 11 have an additional name? I propose GEISHA - great emperor incumbent of the superior Han army.

Keep fighting the good fight y’all! And apologies for the long, very long, post.

Great post, Sardar SAAR! That last request. LOL

Points 5 to 7 is why their army ran from a bunch of irregulars in Sudan. Live targets are unpredictable!

[BajKhedawal]

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 9156648961

Nitin A. Gokhale
@nitingokhale
So I reconfirm to you that these ‘pink things’ in this much circulated satellite pix is indeed of Indian ‘sangars’ on the Indian side of the LAC in Galwan valley. The colour is pink because of a certain equipment that I leave you to guess. So much for satellite imagery analysis!

I am a photographer and in my professional opinion last rays of setting sun can put a pink glow on some facing structures, nothing unusual here.

[LakshmanPST]

Indian path to the top of the ridge-line over looking the Chinese side.

IA now has to be careful .. there are other locations along the ridgeline that the Chinese too can approach. better to get on all those before the Chinese make a rush for them and don;t underestimate the Chinese on this count. I have seen them make some very awkward paths.

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1276061645731594240

This confirms the Aroor statement yesterday that Indian Army has positions at elevations and removing these camps will not be an issue when needed.

Guess all the chess pieces are falling into place.

In this photo the point of June 15 clash (the triangle area with pink/red tents) is shown on Chinese side of LAC...
Further, MEA has released one statement on June 20 and again today saying that China erected a structure 'just across the LAC'...
My guess is, the LAC marked in earlier satellite pics and Google Earth may not be accurate... After all, the exact alignment is only known to Army and ITBP in their maps...
In all likelihood, this triangle area is on Chinese side of the LAC...

June 15 clash happened becoz. dismantling the structure was part of deescalation plan and Chinese re-erected the structure... Our soldiers went there to discuss it and were killed... This led to the clash...

So, I believe those red tents are Chinese only and not Indian...
While it is true that Chinese went back on the deescalation plan, the fact remains is that they have not crossed the LAC and did not occupied land on our side...

[vinod]

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 9156648961

Nitin A. Gokhale
@nitingokhale
So I reconfirm to you that these ‘pink things’ in this much circulated satellite pix is indeed of Indian ‘sangars’ on the Indian side of the LAC in Galwan valley. The colour is pink because of a certain equipment that I leave you to guess. So much for satellite imagery analysis!

It doesn't make sense!! An isolated set of structures on the oppposite side of the river!!

[Dilbu]

What could be the equipment he is talking about?

[Dilbu]

PLA activities threaten Indian Army’s positions in Daulat Beg Oldie

As reported by The Hindu on June 2, there was heavy Chinese presence in the Depsang plains, at a crucial area called the Bulge. There was also build-up of tanks and armoured vehicles on the Chinese side very close to the LAC. Fresh reports of Chinese ingress in this area threatens Indian positions at Raki Nala and Jeevan Nala deep inside Indian territory, which in turn threatens the crucial DBO by bringing Chinese troops closer to the 255 km-long Darbuk-Skyok-DBO road.

[Rs_singh]

Thank you armuan, RaviB and Chola! Please no sir for me.

I’m just catching up on all the sat int coming in. I must admit, I’m a victim of the sandbox syndrome so can’t say much but two points :

1. These pictures represent one fixed moment and not a rapidly evolving fluid sit. Only ground commanders would have that info. The defensive structures and access road do appear to be facing towards India with the road coming from China. That does not imply IA could not have evicted the enemy and setup their own structures there. I frankly don’t know and that image resolution isn’t enough to make an educated guess. Besides that beachhead looks indefensible for either side, at least physically.
2. The pinkness - my guess would be deicing material to prevent ice/snow from forming on top and resulting in a roof collapse from the added weight. Deicing usually has pink or blue crystals depending on the temperature range of the chemical.

[ernest]

What could be the equipment he is talking about?

Sheets from trashed Chinese tents is what some people are speculating

[nam]

P14 is not an ideal place to defend. We have our OP on the ridge top. Let the chinis sit on PP14. When the balloon goes up, we can bring in artillery to the entire valley.

[sudeepj]

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 9156648961

Nitin A. Gokhale
@nitingokhale
So I reconfirm to you that these ‘pink things’ in this much circulated satellite pix is indeed of Indian ‘sangars’ on the Indian side of the LAC in Galwan valley. The colour is pink because of a certain equipment that I leave you to guess. So much for satellite imagery analysis!

One basic mistake I have seen people do, they treat satellite images as if it were just a picture taken from a higher vantage point. That is not the case. Many of these pictures are 'artificially colored' using sophisticated algorithms and they are not from a similar image sensor as, say, a digital camera. So what appears as 'pink' on the satellite image may actually be pink or it may just be an artifact of how the coloring algorithm has worked on that image.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_color

[idan]

All said and done, when will PLA fire the first shot? We have been waiting from 1962 to pay them back with the huge interest that has accumulated!

[KL Dubey]

Indian path to the top of the ridge-line over looking the Chinese side.

IA now has to be careful .. there are other locations along the ridgeline that the Chinese too can approach. better to get on all those before the Chinese make a rush for them and don;t underestimate the Chinese on this count. I have seen them make some very awkward paths.

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1276061645731594240

This confirms the Aroor statement yesterday that Indian Army has positions at elevations and removing these camps will not be an issue when needed.

Guess all the chess pieces are falling into place.

^^If that picture is also from June 22, then why do the PP14 triangle and areas around it look completely empty (no camps or activity) ?

[Dilbu]

US shifting military to face Chinese threat to India and Southeast Asia: Mike Pompeo

The Chinese threat to India and Southeast Asia is one of the reasons the United States is reducing its troop presence in Europe, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on Thursday in response to a question at the Brussels Forum virtual conference.

Pompeo was asked why the US had reduced the number of troops it has based in Germany.

The US Secretary of State said that if US troops were no longer there, it was because they were being moved to face other places. The actions of the Chinese Communist Party meant there were “threats to India” and countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and the South China Sea. The US military is “postured appropriately” to meet these “challenges of our time.”

[NRao]

Nathan Ruser's shelf expiry date has expired long back.

Let him go back to his bird watching. Constant retweeting of his tweets distracts him from watching birds.

[Sanju]

rs_singh & RaviB have made excellent posts and your contributions are much appreciated.

More than any weapons our actual experience facing live fire, CQB and other actions will be our massive edge.

[VikramS]

Gentlemen & Ladies:

1. Have trust in India's military leadership.
2. The leadership will optimize for global objectives: long term goals not short term victories. Give them space
3. The media is full of agents with multiple loyalties. Do not let them run a psychological warfare. Listen but ignore unless it makes sense.
4. A vibrant democracy benefits from checks & balances. While the degree of shrillness and fake narratives in India is high, it is better than not having anything. Educate your less informed friends & family to listen but verify.
5. Do not assume that the Indian leadership is paralyzed. We do not know what kind of alliances are being formed behind the scenes or what kind of equipment is being procured.
6. Trust the military leaders that they are both reacting and proactive in helping contain any CCP misadventure. Have faith in their ethos, leadership and the commitment of the average soldier to their paltan and of the officers to their men.
7. Nathan Ruser is a 22 year old analyst who also said that the IAF smart munition in Balakot landed 100 yds away because of some GPS spoofing. Aus was very CCP-Pasand till recently so those biases will reflect in the coverage.
8. If you are overseas, help build a sympathetic case for India. Any help, material, diplomatic or information will strengthen the will of the leadership to resist.
9. Xi is the Hitler equivalent of the 21st century. India is like WW-II Russia right now.
10. Girdle up your lions; this may not be easy.

[Dilbu]

100m distance between patrols, no ramming of boats: What Indian, Chinese military discussed

Keeping a distance of at least 100 metres between patrols, desisting from ramming boats and vehicles into each other, avoiding confrontation, and disengagement in case of an eventuality — these are some of the protocols discussed at the meetings held between Indian and Chinese corps commanders this month, ThePrint has learnt.

Two meetings have so far taken place between 14 Corps Commander Lieutenant General Harinder Singh and his Chinese counterpart Major General Lin Liu, who is the commander of the South Xinjiang Military District, on 6 June and 22 June.

The second meeting happened after the death of 20 Indian soldiers, including the commanding officer of the 16 Bihar unit, in a violent face-off with the Chinese troops at Galwan Valley in Ladakh.

Between these two meetings, divisional commander-level talks also took place between the two countries.

During the corps commander-level meetings at Chushul-Moldo on the Chinese side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) — one lasted seven hours and the other nearly 11 hours — the military leaders of both sides discussed disengagement plans at the LAC as part of confidence-building measures and to reduce tensions.

The same protocols would also apply to any vehicle-based patrols at the LAC. They could stop or turn away at a suitable distance, the source added.

It was also discussed that temporary structures will be removed in a gradual manner. Cordial meetings to ensure mutual coordination would be conducted by commanders upto the battalion level, the source added.

The modalities to resolve issues pertaining to the “friction areas” of Eastern Ladakh would also be worked out in a gradual manner, the source said, even as both the countries have agreed on “step-wise mutual disengagement”.

The timelines for the disengagement, however, are yet to be fixed.

[Sanju]

Twitter

Lt Cdr Shashi Singh (R)
@shashisingh0707
Global times on his 14th page published that 55 chinese PLA personnel including 1 Colonel rank n 1 ADM officer of same regiment and 4 captain rank officers died on 15/16 June in clashes at Indo chinese border.

[sivab]

Twitter

Lt Cdr Shashi Singh (R)
@shashisingh0707
Global times on his 14th page published that 55 chinese PLA personnel including 1 Colonel rank n 1 ADM officer of same regiment and 4 captain rank officers died on 15/16 June in clashes at Indo chinese border.