India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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pankajs
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 01 Sep 2020 16:17

Also, with Black top gambit, India has sent across 3 additional messages that the Chinese have to account for ...

1. India has ISR capabilities that enabled them to spot and "preempt" the Chinese gambit.

2. India was able to fool the Chinese surveillance (Camera & Sensors) and pluck the Black top right from under their nose. China had a camp less than 1.5 km from the Black top!

3. India seems to have minutely mapped the LAC and the various possibilities of a counter intrusion the proof of which is the action at Black top.

OTOH, IF India has "preempted" the Chinese without a cause on the Chinese side then it would appear Indian determination to play the Chinese game. That will not be good news for the Chinese.

But I agree, with the Chinese statement publicly accepting an Indian intrusion across the LAC there is hardly anyway to step back without causing a loss of face.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby VikramS » 01 Sep 2020 16:18

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/13 ... 30240?s=20

Much — MUCH — more than meets the eye/reports on Pangong’s south bank. And elsewhere. No riddles. It’s a tense, sensitive situation. Brigadier-level talks on again. No space for half info. Will update with facts on
@IndiaToday when I can.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 01 Sep 2020 16:20

Military action is quite problematic for both side, given the length of 3400KM and terrain. It is like mobilizing for Ops Barbarossa, with the world's highest peaks thrown in!

Chini's attack at Pangong, we will attack somewhere else. There cannot be a localized fight. One should have the capability to fully decimate the adversary's local forces, ALL along the LAC to bring the war to end.

The Chinis have the resources, but the terrain is very difficult for them to mobilise. We have the terrian, but not enough resources! :roll:

The foremost thing we should do is get on the heights, like we did at the South bank. Hope we have done this all along at important peaks... It doesn't help, those peaks are so bl***** high.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Kakarat » 01 Sep 2020 16:42

Is this Black top?
https://goo.gl/maps/WwtV8HtsdGLmjWnp9

If so there seems to be a small chinese camp on top and if we have taken it then it means we have cutoff a small chinese detachment on the southern banks of the Pangong Tso

The gun position/ detachment at southern banks of the Pangong Tso is claimed by Shiv aroor & others but cant see any on google earth which is updated till 6/2020

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby TKiran » 01 Sep 2020 16:48

https://mobile.twitter.com/drapr007/sta ... 8768594944
Dr. APR
@drapr007
#BREAKING : P0rn0graph¡c books have been found from the Chinese posts captured by Indian soldiers near Pangong Tso. Only PLA soldiers can do it in the battlefield. What a professional army ?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 01 Sep 2020 16:54

^^^ LOL

Japanese pawn is weird and rather good. I wonder how are Chicom ones?

This is not your grandfather's Red Army.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 01 Sep 2020 16:57

https://theprint.in/defence/as-indian-a ... ng/493038/
As Indian Army outflanks China on southern banks of Pangong Tso, PLA issues verbal warning
New Delhi: Specialised elements of the Indian Army outflanked China’s People’s Liberation Army on the night of 29 August, dominating at least four locations claimed by both sides near the southern bank of the Pangong Tso.
This is in the Pangang Tso area and not further down.
Government sources said the Army deployed troops in certain key areas, including Rezang La, and carried out reconnaissance of other important heights in the vicinity over the past several days.
Plus Yu La, next to the Black top and Rezang La.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 01 Sep 2020 17:03

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 859275.cms
PLA attempts to occupy feature; Indian troops reinforce positions near Rezang La
NEW DELHI: A dominating feature known as `Black Top’ has emerged as the new flashpoint on the Sino-Indian border in eastern Ladakh after the People’s Liberation Army tried to occupy it late on Saturday night and create defensive positions.

Black Top is a strategic feature in the Chushul subsector that overlooks Indian posts along the southern bank of the Pangong Tso lake. Sources said that late on Saturday night, the Army detected movement of around 300 PLA soldiers with equipment for constructing fortifications near Black Top.

Since the feature is well within the Indian perception of the Line of Actual Control, Indian forces were mobilised from nearby posts to occupy heights in the area and stall the Chinese movements towards the southern bank of the lake. The Indian deployment stalled a possible Chinese advance in the area, which is located on the other side of lake from the contentious finger area where a border confrontation has been on since May.

Additional troops have also been posted to Rezang La and Reqin La in Chushul to prevent PLA attempts to push into the area. India has in the past months also moved a regiment of T90 tanks to the vulnerable Spanggur pass at Chushul to thwart any possible Chinese ingress.
“Our troops have been posted forward to deny access as a repeat of the Finger area crisis was feared but we remain within our perception of the border. There have been no deployments across the LAC,” senior officials said. Sources said that 300 PLA troops have taken positions on a nearby feature known as Helmet Top. They are believed to be in possession of construction material used for fortifications.
Our "perception" of the "undefined" LAC. Doing a China on the Chinese ...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Cyrano » 01 Sep 2020 17:11

Only child generation out for Boy Scout camping fun having American Pie it seems. Where are the last moment selfies?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 01 Sep 2020 17:14

:D They are going to Huff and puff steam for the next few days for sure before they decide on their next move. BTW will they now be able to move their light tanks out of the area. They can be great samples if left behind. Our army is looking for light tanks and any tanks left behind will be considered for on T1 & L1 basis. :D

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby shyamd » 01 Sep 2020 17:23

shyamd wrote:The full version of events haven’t been released and those who know haven’t fully released it. It looks like what happened was the culmination of events/provocations over a week.

What has been demonstrated are plans in place since May/June. The plans are highly intensive on SF community.

Will reveal more at the right time

Now that journalists are starting to reveal more. IA plus Nat Security establishment had prepared a series of counter moves which includes small incursions across the LAC with a view to re-drawing the LAC as soon as the first clash took place.

As I have said GOI had given PLA every opportunity to return to status quo, in talks PLA were not yielding anything. Separately, more and more intel was coming in that PLA is reinforcing areas taking advantage of talks. The last WMCC talks was seen as a last ditch attempt to resolve the matter yet no effort was made by PLA.

It looks like the talks were seen as a sign of weakness and at the local level PLA were increasing capacity in that area. GOI gave green light for ops to send a message to Beijing to re-establish the April status quo and re-balance the situation given it was viewed that the previous round of talks etc was in the favour of PLA/PRC.

SFF unit implemented plans that they had drilled for.

The feature that was taken over was lost in 1962 war I believe. Once the units had reported successful take over - I believe the message came back that there will be no immediate retaliation in the Brigadier level talks, GOI went public. There were 2 talks held I believe. Indian position was clear at those talks - GOI will take all steps to defend it's territory and we expect PLA to re-establish the status quo = paying back PLA in the same coin.

PLA Western Theatre Command signals that they want IA to vacate the position and have given notice. GOI bracing for retaliation.

Meanwhile 3rd round of brigadier level talks is continuing and looks like there is some positive progress in IA favour. The talks yesterday was quite fiery I am told

Will reveal more later but kudos to SFF and SLI who participated in the ops.
Last edited by shyamd on 01 Sep 2020 17:31, edited 1 time in total.

chola
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chola » 01 Sep 2020 17:29

pushkar.bhat wrote::D They are going to Huff and puff steam for the next few days for sure before they decide on their next move. BTW will they now be able to move their light tanks out of the area. They can be great samples if left behind. Our army is looking for light tanks and any tanks left behind will be considered for on T1 & L1 basis. :D


Eh, the light tanks are pretty blah. Lighter armor with an outsized engine to gulp more oxygen depleted air in relation to weight. The better samples are the girlie magazines left behind. I must say the desi pawn industry is in deplorable shape compared to East Asian ones.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby VikramA » 01 Sep 2020 17:39

the chinese will now make a move in despang area. that is the only area left for them to make a move. drive straight through and try to cut off DBO road ahead of burtse camp as the road climbs up to the despang plane via qizil langar. the only way we will be able to stop them is by firing first. if we don't we might end up in a situation where our armoured division in despang will get hemmed in on 3 sides -front facing a PLA division, left karakoram pass(with reports that they have forces camped on other side) , and right - with a mech brigade/ division sitting at qizil langar with our back facing chip chap -shyok river confluence( and siachen beyond that). if you look at the maps this valley were shyok originates does not have a road so infantry can fall back on foot from despang through this valley but not armour.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Larry Walker » 01 Sep 2020 17:48

If China tries to retake the heights, it will have to use artillery anf air-power. If India has to defend Depsang from a Chinese armoured assault, then India will have to use artillery and air-power. So it will escalate in either scenarios.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby idan » 01 Sep 2020 17:52

VikramA wrote:the chinese will now make a move in despang area. that is the only area left for them to make a move. drive straight through and try to cut off DBO road ahead of burtse camp as the road climbs up to the despang plane via qizil langar. the only way we will be able to stop them is by firing first. if we don't we might end up in a situation where our armoured division in despang will get hemmed in on 3 sides -front facing a PLA division, left karakoram pass(with reports that they have forces camped on other side) , and right - with a mech brigade/ division sitting at qizil langar with our back facing chip chap -shyok river confluence( and siachen beyond that). if you look at the maps this valley were shyok originates does not have a road so infantry can fall back on foot from despang through this valley but not armour.


Indian Army has already mined the area/strategic entry points with anti-tank mines and has stationed anti-tank weapons to repulse!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby idan » 01 Sep 2020 17:55

yensoy wrote:
pushkar.bhat wrote:So now you know the quality of their stealth. We don't need radars, even our media can detect it. :)

Let's not get carried away. Stealth aircraft routinely carry "Luneberg Reflectors" which are expressly for the purpose of making them non-stealthy. The idea is that your enemy should have no idea about the stealthiness of the aircraft till they are used in war. So the fact that we are detecting J-20s today doesn't mean much and most certainly IAF/IA isn't complacent about this finding.


J-20 is not 'stealthy' at all. The neutral experts have ratified this time and again. And stealth is the biggest hoax .... a 60s Soviet era Buk could bring down the F-117A!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby g.sarkar » 01 Sep 2020 18:01

pushkar.bhat wrote::D They are going to Huff and puff steam for the next few days for sure before they decide on their next move. BTW will they now be able to move their light tanks out of the area. They can be great samples if left behind. Our army is looking for light tanks and any tanks left behind will be considered for on T1 & L1 basis. :D

Will these tanks meet Indian army specifications?
Remember Chini maal do not have any guarantee.
Gautam

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby VikramA » 01 Sep 2020 18:01

idan wrote:
VikramA wrote:the chinese will now make a move in despang area. that is the only area left for them to make a move. drive straight through and try to cut off DBO road ahead of burtse camp as the road climbs up to the despang plane via qizil langar. the only way we will be able to stop them is by firing first. if we don't we might end up in a situation where our armoured division in despang will get hemmed in on 3 sides -front facing a PLA division, left karakoram pass(with reports that they have forces camped on other side) , and right - with a mech brigade/ division sitting at qizil langar with our back facing chip chap -shyok river confluence( and siachen beyond that). if you look at the maps this valley were shyok originates does not have a road so infantry can fall back on foot from despang through this valley but not armour.


Indian Army has already mined the area/strategic entry points with anti-tank mines and has stationed anti-tank weapons to repulse!

with anti -tanks mines- i don't think so because then those same mines will become our own problems if we choose to counter attack with our own armour, ATGMS -yes definitely , but will local commander give the order to fire in time to ATGM crew when they spot a chini T-96 coming towards DBO road. we should not put it past PLA to play a game of chicken with 2-3 squadron of tanks

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby idan » 01 Sep 2020 18:16

Indian Army will only go offensive where it can hold land and not retreat after counter attack - therefore anti-tank mines will hold good in certain areas where we do not wish to alter the LAC ab-initio IMHO. It can slow down any PLA armoured thrust!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby arshyam » 01 Sep 2020 18:28

pankajs wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/pla-attempts-to-occupy-feature-indian-troops-reinforce-positions-near-rezang-la/articleshow/77859275.cms
PLA attempts to occupy feature; Indian troops reinforce positions near Rezang La
Since the feature is well within the Indian perception of the Line of Actual Control, Indian forces were mobilised from nearby posts to occupy heights in the area and stall the Chinese movements towards the southern bank of the lake.
Our "perception" of the "undefined" LAC. Doing a China on the Chinese ...

Yep. This answers my question from earlier...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby putnanja » 01 Sep 2020 18:37

As per baba's tweet ...

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1300773693094653952

Just for your knowledge

The Indian Army has also captured the Spanggur Gap, the Spanggur Lake and the Chinese road along its shore in eastern Ladakh.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 01 Sep 2020 18:39

putnanja wrote:As per baba's tweet ...

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1300773693094653952

Just for your knowledge

The Indian Army has also captured the Spanggur Gap, the Spanggur Lake and the Chinese road along its shore in eastern Ladakh.

Please don't believe unless confirmed by official sources. This is highly unlikely.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 01 Sep 2020 18:40

Sigh, nothing of that sort.

Spanggur lake is a heavily defended area. You cannot just walk in and capture it. If we had such magically power, we would have gone to Finger 8 instead!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 01 Sep 2020 18:47

I believe in Baba in this case, there is not much of psyops and moreover he is the one with the most authentic info. BTW, what makes the Chinis superhuman that we cant capture Spanggur lake ?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby TKiran » 01 Sep 2020 18:55

Based on Twitterati, if you connect dots a picture is emerging as though IA captured Spangurr base of PLA with around 500 PLAGF as PsoW. They abandoned their light tanks and surrendered as they were not expecting IA there. They could have fought, but they were told that IA will not be there, all they needed to do was to occupy the heights, and they can put up tents and were assured of supplies.

That's a real preemptive strike.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 01 Sep 2020 18:59

The OS handles of babaji, frontalassault and wolfpack give some indications as to what is happening. Wolfpack says the PoWs were sent home yesterday, their surveillance system was a Far Infra red camera which is in our possession and now we have a clear straight view of Finger 4 and 8. They will definitely try something now lets hope for the best.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Kakarat » 01 Sep 2020 19:02

Yes we can capture Spanggur Tso. In my opinion it is the weakest PLA position compared to others as it is supplied by only one road along the lake, in some points its narrow. if we can manage to cutoff the supply and go offensive we can capture it, but wont be a cake walk definitely not within days with out any fight

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby VikramA » 01 Sep 2020 19:05

i think when baba says that we have captured Spanggur Gap , he means we have occupied Gurung Hill, Magar Hill -these hills sit at the entrance of Spanggur Gap.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby suryag » 01 Sep 2020 19:08

I am now waiting for the loyal/rented castrated ---fillsomethinghere--- (please dont insult an animal or human or plant) to indulge in some theatrics on the western border. The PRC/PLA dont have a stomach for a fight ever and will use these slaves to do something

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 01 Sep 2020 19:13

You have to remember that if Spanggur Tso is captured along with the road that runs parallel to the lake then we are in effective control of the entire Southern bank of Pangango Tso to a point after Sirijap where the Lake becomes narrow and then turns eastwards. That will also mean that Yala La is under effective Indian control and this corrects the losses of 1962. Do we understand the implications of what the SM handles are mentioning. This is a very serious escalation. VERY VERY SERIOUS ESCALATION..

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Anoop » 01 Sep 2020 19:14

pankajs wrote:We should now start building for a permanent deployment at the new locations just as the Chinese did at the north bank of Pangang tso.

That will show our intent to HOLD position just like the Chinese have shown their intent on the northern bank of Pangang tso.


This is absolutely required because it is obvious that the Chinese are on an occupation spree. No area is safe from them if they think they can get away with it. I hope we do this at every opportunity and place we can. In fact it is a little surprising that heights dominating such a critical axis of attack viz. the Spanggur Gap was not occupied by either party until now.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby vijayk » 01 Sep 2020 19:22

Flag of PakistanZaiduFlag of Pakistan
@TheZaiduLeaks
***** material found in Chinese camp which was captured by Indian Army.

***** material was found from Osama when US did Abottabad raid.

Hence proved, ***** make you so dumb that you are not able to focus on motion sensors, cameras & helicopter noise

Avoid *****


:rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 01 Sep 2020 19:28

TKiran wrote:Based on Twitterati, if you connect dots a picture is emerging as though IA captured Spangurr base of PLA with around 500 PLAGF as PsoW. They abandoned their light tanks and surrendered as they were not expecting IA there.

Oh come on, unit with 500 people and light tanks will give up without a fight? Even baba won't claim something as outrageous as this.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby abhik » 01 Sep 2020 19:32

suryag wrote:I believe in Baba in this case, there is not much of psyops and moreover he is the one with the most authentic info. BTW, what makes the Chinis superhuman that we cant capture Spanggur lake ?

Going by sat images they have a large number, probably a whole brigade sized force camped on the south bank of Spanggur lake. Recent reports also indicate armoured vehicles deployment. Are we to believe such a large fource melted away without even a flight?
BTW the whole lake is with in the Chinese side of the LAC and half of it is on the other side of our original border claim. If the PLA has lost the lake then that means we have inflicted a 1962 scale defence on then, all reportedly overny without firing a short. A little hard to believe no?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby rajpa » 01 Sep 2020 19:34

Quite possible that 500 Chinese ran away to cry to Mama Hua Chunying.

https://twitter.com/FrontalAssault1/status/1300762712289542144

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 01 Sep 2020 19:34

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 9018301443
Report: Situation in Chushul is dire and the possibility of an escalation cannot be ruled out as Chinese PLA under instruction of CCP's CMC is trying all out to push the Indian Army, after Indian troops captured several dominating heights.

More than likely we are in control of the dominant heights around the Spanggur gap/pass and this makes the Chinese position around that area very vulnerable to Indian action in the future.

The flanking action around Spanggur gap/pass via Black top and Rejang La is just brilliant and more than an adequate response to the Chinese F4/8 Pangang Tso gambit. The moment Black top capture was confirmed I was ecstatic.
Last edited by pankajs on 01 Sep 2020 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 01 Sep 2020 19:37

suryag wrote:The OS handles of babaji, frontalassault and wolfpack give some indications as to what is happening. Wolfpack says the PoWs were sent home yesterday, their surveillance system was a Far Infra red camera which is in our possession and now we have a clear straight view of Finger 4 and 8. They will definitely try something now lets hope for the best.

Shiv aroor says there is a Type 15 tank regiment of chinese there? Have Chinese abandoned their tanks?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 01 Sep 2020 19:40

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1300691819018301443
Report: Situation in Chushul is dire and the possibility of an escalation cannot be ruled out as Chinese PLA under instruction of CCP's CMC is trying all out to push the Indian Army, after Indian troops captured several dominating heights.

More than likely we are in control of the dominant heights around the Spanggur gap/pass and this makes the Chinese position around that area very vulnerable to Indian action in the future.

The flanking action around Spanggur gap/pass via Black top and Rejang La is just brilliant and more than an adequate response to the Chinese F4/8 Pangang Tso gambit.

And that is what makes this so brilliant. If we dominate Spanggur area, then we basically have the ability to inflict pain on them in response to any thrust from their side - be it in Depsang, Fingers or even Doklam and Arunachal. This may be more useful to hold on to than Fingers 5-8 which we never really had 100% other than being able to send patrols in from time to time and often being challenged by the Chinese.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pushkar.bhat » 01 Sep 2020 19:40

Just read that Snehesh Alex Philip from the Print also mention that we have effective control of the South Bank of Pangong Tso just like the Chinese have control of the north bank.

Original Tweet

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby vijayk » 01 Sep 2020 19:42

abhik wrote:
suryag wrote:I believe in Baba in this case, there is not much of psyops and moreover he is the one with the most authentic info. BTW, what makes the Chinis superhuman that we cant capture Spanggur lake ?

Going by sat images they have a large number, probably a whole brigade sized force camped on the south bank of Spanggur lake. Recent reports also indicate armoured vehicles deployment. Are we to believe such a large fource melted away without even a flight?
BTW the whole lake is with in the Chinese side of the LAC and half of it is on the other side of our original border claim. If the PLA has lost the lake then that means we have inflicted a 1962 scale defence on then, all reportedly overny without firing a short. A little hard to believe no?


Not hard.

In UN peace camps in Africa, whole Chinese contingent used to run away. They had to bring in Indian Army to keep peace


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