India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby V_Raman » 02 Sep 2020 14:15

I dont know about that. NaMo is one for solutions - very hard nosed and a realist. So you never know. Favorable here means - status quo - dont wait for India to get serious about aksai chin, pak gifted territory etc. They can see that Pak is falling apart and it is only a matter of time. Their real fight is on their east coast with Japan/USA - not with us. So a settlement over the next few years is good for them - in time for USA politics to settle down and real fight to start.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby VikramS » 02 Sep 2020 14:32

A twist:

https://www.tibetanjournal.com/a-tibeta ... nese-army/

"Tibetan origin Nyima Tenzin serving the rank of Company leader in Indian army has been killed by a gunshot in the neck according to the breaking report by the Tibet Sun on Tuesday. Apart from the 53 year old Company Leader, a 24 year old junior, also of Tibetan origin has been injured by Chinese soldiers."

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 02 Sep 2020 14:59

nam wrote:The biggest issue I am now seeing, is the "no fire" rule. I think this is already broken, both sides are not making it public. SFF casualty is been reported as gun shots by the Tibetians.

Due to this no fire rule, the Chinis are reported to have come very close to our position. This would happen anywhere on LAC and it is good & bad for the PLA.

If they go on offensive, they are very close to our position, gives them a very good chance. Bad, if we are smart enough to provide good fire support like close in mortar, we could knock them down. Moreover PLA cannot rely on artillery support due to the proximity.

The border meetings are not going anywhere. We are probably sliding in to a war...
Per some reports, the boys are armed with machine guns, ATGMs and such like to beat back any rush for their posts.

Btw, Arty fire by Chinese will mean a reverse fire on the chinese arty position with our boys at the top acting as spotters and directors.

Of course the Chinese can try what India did at Kargil but that will involve huge costs with uncertain results.

We are sliding towards a war ... because the Chinese want us to feel that and backoff.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 02 Sep 2020 15:06

Image

US DOD Chini Missile count. The CM must be much more.

These rockets will not change the course of a war against us, but will cause some assured damage. Wish we had concentrated some on our side as well.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 15:09

Our PM (could have kept it simple without going into details), FM and CDS have given very clear statements at the political and military level. I am missing a short and crisp statement from DM - without mixing any political statement or bullshit - like China has not occupied any of Indian terrioity, they have forcefull occupied half of Ladakh at gun point in 1962. Historically, China had no border with India. We had only Indo-Tibet border.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby k prasad » 02 Sep 2020 15:19

It will be graded escalation. We have the reports of SFF, the mention of preemptive operations, the previous reports that local commanders have been given discretion to use weapons, and robust statements from policymakers at all levels in a coordinated manner. The Chiefs and CDS are also being given the leeway of making fairly vocal statements. Plus, the fact that there are press reports that our soldiers at the heights are equipped with atgms and machine guns.

On the other side, notice also how the Chinese statements are starting to look slightly frazzled - the belligerent but defensive Gobar times 'editorials', the mention of LAC not being demarcated, the constant reiteratioms (almost pleading) that these issues shouldn't affect the economic relationship, etc.

Next glove to come off will be if the Indian side mentions any use of weapons fire by Chinese (say admitting that the combat casualty was from a bullet, not an old landmine). There will be a gradual ramp up in statements, but from all indications, it looks like GOI is handling this competently.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 15:25

China demands India to withdraw troops that illegally trespassed LAC

Source: China Military Online
Editor: Chen Zhuo
Time: 2020-08-31 23:10:49

CHENGDU, Aug. 31 -- Indian troops on Monday illegally trespassed the Line of Control (LOC) again at the southern bank of the Pangong Tso Lake and near the Reqin Mountain and conducted flagrant provocations, said Senior Colonel Zhang Shuili, spokesperson for the Western Theater Command of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, urging that the Indian side should immediately withdraw its troops and avoid any escalation in the situation.

Spokesperson Zhang made the remarks in a written statement responding to the recent China-India border situation on Monday night. He said that the Indian military’s move has violated the consensus reached in previous multi-level engagements and negotiations between China and India and stirred tension on the border.

Spokesperson Zhang further pointed out that India’s move has grossly violated China's territorial sovereignty, and severely damaged peace and stability in the China-India border area, and China is strongly opposed to the Indian side’s faithless act of repudiating past promises.

"We solemnly demand the Indian side to immediately withdraw its troops that illegally trespassing the border line, strictly control and restrain its frontline troops and earnestly honor its commitments, so as to avoid further escalation in the situation,” he stressed.

Spokesperson Zhang also said in the statement that the Chinese military is taking necessary countermeasures and will closely follow the developments to resolutely safeguard China's territorial sovereignty, as well as peace and stability in the border region.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RajaRudra » 02 Sep 2020 15:26

Confusion Over Black Top and Helmet Top. Nitin Gokhale is differing from many OSINT.
In the video, he tells, when the PLO forces approached Black Top and Helmet Top, they were flood light lit and made to retreat.
One way to interpret is, the PLO forces are flood lit from the newly occupied position(not necessarily from Black top itself) .

If we had occupied Requin La. How are we going to get the supplies to the forces there, if the Black top and Helmet Top is still with Chinese. They can interrupt the supply.

There seems to be a dirt road near Black top, so the PLA forces if positioned there could get supplies through that road. Not clear about the supplies to Helmet top.

There seems to be a camp of PLA in Spangur lake area. Is the Spangur Gap different from Spangur Lake? If so who controls the Lake?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 15:29

India will gain nothing from its border aggression

Source: China Daily
Editor: Huang Panyue
Time: 2020-09-01 20:19:01

Indian troops made provocative moves near the south bank of Pangong Lake and the Reqin mountain pass on Monday, their second trespass across the Line of Actual Control in the region since the fatal clash between Indian and Chinese troops on June 15. What is ludicrous is that India has accused China of taking provocative military action and claimed that it has preempted what Chinese soldiers were trying to do.

What does India hope to gain by making repeated incursions into China-controlled areas?

Both the Indian military and government should be aware by now that they will never get an inch of the territory they are not entitled with their encroachment. They should never underestimate the determination of Chinese troops to defend China's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

China has reiterated that both sides should respect the Line of Actual Control and solve their border dispute through talks. China has also made it clear that the border dispute should not have a negative impact on the engagement between the two countries in other areas.

......

Whatever tricks India plays will never shake China's firm resolve to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity. China will respect the Line of Actual Control, but never give in to India's unreasonable demands. China has no intention of starting a war with India, but it will not hesitate to defend its own territory and interests should it be forced to do so.

India's miscalculations and wishful thinking of forcing its will on China will only bring it shame. And by doing so, India will only shoot itself in the foot.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Dumal » 02 Sep 2020 16:28

RKumar wrote:India will gain nothing from its border aggression

...
China has reiterated that both sides should respect the Line of Actual Control and solve their border dispute through talks...

China has also made it clear that the border dispute should not have a negative impact on the engagement between the two...

China will respect the Line of Actual Control, but never give in to India's unreasonable demands.

India will only shoot itself in the foot.


Didn't their soft-spoken FM Wang Yi just say that the LAC is not demarcated and hence misunderstandings can be expected?

Shoot itself in the foot? Is this normal Chinese usage or something borrowed from their Yankee friends in the heat of the moment, who used the phrase to call out the Chinese misadventure of the past week?

Made it clear... should not impact... (P)Ooooh, that makes us shiver!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2020 16:28

VikramS wrote:A twist:

https://www.tibetanjournal.com/a-tibeta ... nese-army/

"Tibetan origin Nyima Tenzin serving the rank of Company leader in Indian army has been killed by a gunshot in the neck according to the breaking report by the Tibet Sun on Tuesday. Apart from the 53 year old Company Leader, a 24 year old junior, also of Tibetan origin has been injured by Chinese soldiers."

Ajai Shukla says, " . . . Details of the operation in which Tenzin died remain secret but it is learnt to have resulted in Chinese casualties."

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 02 Sep 2020 16:28

RajaRudra wrote:Confusion Over Black Top and Helmet Top. Nitin Gokhale is differing from many OSINT.
In the video, he tells, when the PLO forces approached Black Top and Helmet Top, they were flood light lit and made to retreat.
One way to interpret is, the PLO forces are flood lit from the newly occupied position(not necessarily from Black top itself) .

If we had occupied Requin La. How are we going to get the supplies to the forces there, if the Black top and Helmet Top is still with Chinese. They can interrupt the supply.

There seems to be a dirt road near Black top, so the PLA forces if positioned there could get supplies through that road. Not clear about the supplies to Helmet top.

There seems to be a camp of PLA in Spangur lake area. Is the Spangur Gap different from Spangur Lake? If so who controls the Lake?

Black Top is 1.5 km from the GE/Indian/Chinese LAC and is backed up by a Chinese camp 1.5 km downhill. There is a clear visible track from the Chinese side right up to the Black top if you zoom in enough.

Now .. tell me how will India push back the Chinese forces from 1.5 km away by simply using floodlight and megaphones when the Chinese are so well positioned around the Black top?

Given the configuration, the only way to ensure that the Chinese stay off the Black top IS by being positioned right at the Black top!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 16:38

China: The truth is the Chinese army's never crossed LAC

Source: CGTN.COM
Editor: Chen Zhuo
Time: 2020-09-02 11:16:04

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying Tuesday stressed that China has never provoked a war or conflict, nor has it ever invaded another country or taken an inch of land from others over the past 70 years since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949. :rotfl:

Hua made the remarks when asked to comment on what is the truth since China and India are accusing each other of making provocative moves to alter the status quo in the border area.

Sino-Indian border tensions flared again over the weekend after a deadly border clash between the two countries in June.

India's Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday that Chinese troops had "engaged in provocative action" on the border on Monday even as military commanders held talks to defuse tensions. Beijing has rejected the allegations.

Hua noted the Indian side's statement may be different from that of China, but there is only one fact and truth.

"In fact, China's border defense forces have always strictly followed the actual line of control (LAC) and has never crossed it," she said.

India should respect the facts, take practical actions in the good faith of safeguarding the overall situation of China-India relations, and work with China to safeguard peace and tranquility in the border areas, Hua pointed out.

"We have noticed that in recent years, Indian media have reported a lot about the Indian army's increasing troops to the Sino-Indian border areas. If it is true, India's moves run against the desire of the Chinese and Indian people to live in peace and maintain good, stable and healthy development of bilateral relations," she said.


They are living in a parallel universe .. they own and rule the planet Earth :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RajaRudra » 02 Sep 2020 16:54

pankajs wrote:Black Top is 1.5 km from the GE/Indian/Chinese LAC and is backed up by a Chinese camp 1.5 km downhill. There is a clear visible track from the Chinese side right up to the Black top if you zoom in enough.

Now .. tell me how will India push back the Chinese forces from 1.5 km away by simply using floodlight and megaphones when the Chinese are so well positioned around the Black top?

Given the configuration, the only way to ensure that the Chinese stay off the Black top IS by being positioned right at the Black top!


yeah, not contesting anything. As per Nitins interview(after getting the update from his source), Black Top and Helmet Top is still with Chinese.

1) we could have really taken both, but keeping this two outside for now(to bargain for fingers).
2) In other words , negotiation is only for this two features and we are not going to negotiate about other three features(other than Helmet and Black Tops).

May be , after few months(one winter), IA may start feeling that occupying this features get more strategic and information value than the finger area.
And so, we may be in the process of getting a more defined LAC at least here.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 17:02

https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/statu ... 35136?s=20

ndian Army reaches dominating heights at Finger 4 facing Chinese in Pangong Tso
The move by India, both in Southern and Northern banks of the Pangong Lake, comes after talks with China reached a stalemate with PLA refusing to budge from its positions.
https://theprint.in/defence/indian-army ... so/494211/

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby g.sarkar » 02 Sep 2020 17:02

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis ... 2020-09-02
India-China standoff: How and why govt changed strategy on dealing with Beijing
The Modi government has ordered a change in strategy to deal with China. The first signs of this shift came as the Indian Army significantly strengthened its presence on "strategic heights" and enhanced deployment of troops and weapons at key points around the Pangong lake.
Rahul Shrivastava, New Delhi, September 2, 2020

After four months of stand-off at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and trying military tackles, talks and trade restrictions to push back China, India's defence establishment has now added cautious counter offensive to its strategy. Top sources in the government have said the signal came a few days back from the political executive that the situation cannot be underplayed any longer and that India needs to take a hard look with talking and economic pressures not succeeding. The idea behind the significant shift in India's strategy is to stop waiting for China to relent and agree to disengage and de-escalate while it is visibly out to heighten the conflict. The view is that such a wait and watch game can be militarily disadvantageous and politically problematic.
India changes strategy
The changed strategy includes slow but steady assertion, exploring physically taking over zones China is illegally claiming to be its territory or even removing illegal Chinese occupation. The government is, however, aware of the risks involved and is firm that talks at various levels should continue to defuse the situation through de-escalation and disengagement. Since things were not working out, military options were brought on the table with discussions on actions that should be taken.
First sign of change in approach
The first sign of change in tactics came on August 24. Defence strategists went on an alert when Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat said, "India's defence forces are prepared to look at any military option if the extensive talks to restore status quo ante along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) do not yield any positive result." The statement by Gen Rawat came barely 36 hours after a meeting was led by Rajnath Singh on August 22. The meeting was attended by NSA Ajit Doval, the three service chiefs, the CDs, and other officials of India's intelligence matrix.
A top defence ministry functionary said the meeting chalked out a dynamic proactive agenda instead of "merely deploying personnel and defence assets to confront the Chinese forces at the LAC." India Today TV has learned that on August 25, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh questioned the CDS on his statement and even asked him to exercise discretion. The Defence Minister reportedly intervened because the CDS' statement was too close to the truth and the government didn't want the cat to be out of the bag.
Within a week, the first sign of strategy shift came on the ground with the Indian Army's occupation of three hilltops claimed by China on the south bank of Pangong Lake.
.....
Gautam

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 17:06

Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/status/1301112481411035136?s=20

ndian Army reaches dominating heights at Finger 4 facing Chinese in Pangong Tso
The move by India, both in Southern and Northern banks of the Pangong Lake, comes after talks with China reached a stalemate with PLA refusing to budge from its positions.
https://theprint.in/defence/indian-army ... so/494211/


The SFF soldier was killed in action and from PLA firing. This cannot be disclosed it seems :roll: . Yes shots were fired.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 02 Sep 2020 17:09

Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/status/1301112481411035136?s=20

ndian Army reaches dominating heights at Finger 4 facing Chinese in Pangong Tso
The move by India, both in Southern and Northern banks of the Pangong Lake, comes after talks with China reached a stalemate with PLA refusing to budge from its positions.
https://theprint.in/defence/indian-army ... so/494211/

There always existed the possibility of Indian soldiers but especially those trained for mountains & Siachen of scaling over the ridges into the Chinese side going back right to the root of the the fingers. The area is snow covered but not very steep.

Good Job if true!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RajaRudra » 02 Sep 2020 17:13

Iyersan wrote:
Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/status/1301112481411035136?s=20

ndian Army reaches dominating heights at Finger 4 facing Chinese in Pangong Tso
The move by India, both in Southern and Northern banks of the Pangong Lake, comes after talks with China reached a stalemate with PLA refusing to budge from its positions.
https://theprint.in/defence/indian-army ... so/494211/


The SFF soldier was killed in action and from PLA firing. This cannot be disclosed it seems :roll: . Yes shots were fired.


There was tweet about All Arm Firing by ShatruJeet at around 3 PM on Monday. It was not acknowledged by other OSINT and govt statement.
Army is not disclosing everything. Only the information that needs to be shared are shared with media. Its good, pro active and working.

For the first time, i am enjoying the roan dhona of Chinese FM spokeswomen :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 17:14

RajaRudra wrote:
Iyersan wrote:
The SFF soldier was killed in action and from PLA firing. This cannot be disclosed it seems :roll: . Yes shots were fired.


There was tweet about All Arm Firing by ShatruJeet at around 3 PM on Monday. It was not acknowledged by other OSINT and govt statement.
Army is not disclosing everything. Only the information that needs to be shared are shared with media. Its good, pro active and working.

For the first time, i am enjoying the roan dhona of Chinese FM spokeswomen :rotfl:

If that is true. We are laying to waste the sacrifice of one Tibetan brother

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RajaRudra » 02 Sep 2020 17:22

Iyersan wrote:
RajaRudra wrote:
There was tweet about All Arm Firing by ShatruJeet at around 3 PM on Monday. It was not acknowledged by other OSINT and govt statement.
Army is not disclosing everything. Only the information that needs to be shared are shared with media. Its good, pro active and working.

For the first time, i am enjoying the roan dhona of Chinese FM spokeswomen :rotfl:

If that is true. We are laying to waste the sacrifice of one Tibetan brother


Sir ji, There is no disrespect of Tibetan borther.
This big operations as per many accounts involved many units including the SFF. There is no official confirmation from govt with regard to martyrdom of any person due to Chinese firing. There could have been lose in PLA also. But officially both India and China feel comfortable not disclosing it and creating pressure on self.

We may not like it, but the truth is disengagement is not yet done and the operation is still on. So we will not be getting update from the govt day by day. For ref., entire Siachin operation details came out very much open after many years.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2020 17:32

China's latest incursion bid was deliberate move to provoke India: US intelligence - ANI
Excerpts
Beijing is infuriated with its local commander withdrawing forces when a physical conflict appeared imminent, added the assessment report.

Washington said Indian troops have prevented any loss of ground, according to a source familiar with the assessment who spoke on condition of anonymity.

"We are staggered at the timing of the Chinese actions but shouldn't complain either if Beijing shoots itself in the foot," according to the intelligence assessment.

Indian officials are slated to meet with their counterparts virtually from the US, Australia and Japan later this month for a summit, which Indian sources say will likely result in a new intelligence-sharing agreement among the countries.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 17:33

# BATTLE FOR SPANNGUR gap will be spoken in history as the most ferocious battle fought by the Indian army against an expansionist Chinese Regime

All the above is yet to happen

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 17:43

The boys are in for a long and arduous winter....Don"t envy them...
16 to 17000 ft in summer is bad enough..
Now the hardiness of the boys and the benefits of insurgency come to the fore...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 17:47

Chinese defense minister meets Vietnamese ambassador

Source: Xinhuanet
Editor: Chen Zhuo
Time: 2020-08-31 21:29:23

BEIJING, Aug. 31 (Xinhua) -- Chinese State Councilor and Defense Minister Wei Fenghe on Monday met with Vietnamese Ambassador to China Pham Sao Mai in Beijing.

Noting that bilateral relations have maintained stable development, Wei said China is ready to work with Vietnam to carry forward the special friendship forged by the old revolutionaries of the two Parties and countries.

China is prepared to strengthen solidarity and deepen cooperation with Vietnam to handle differences appropriately and jointly oppose hegemonism, interventionism and unilateralism, in order to make contributions to regional and global peace and stability, said Wei.

Pham Sao Mai noted that Vietnam is ready for joint efforts with China to promote traditional friendship and in-depth strategic cooperation between the two countries in the face of complex international and regional situations.


Seems like China wants to limit Indian influence in Vietnam. Is the stage being set?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 02 Sep 2020 17:54

ks_sachin wrote:The boys are in for a long and arduous winter....Don"t envy them...
16 to 17000 ft in summer is bad enough..
Now the hardiness of the boys and the benefits of insurgency come to the fore...


This is where the SFF, AP & ladakh units will be shining. You cannot beat the locals. The Chinis have to drag 20 year old all the way from the East coast.

I expect the local recruitment to shoot up. They are fighting for their homes.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby LakshmanPST » 02 Sep 2020 17:57

RajaRudra wrote:Is the Spangur Gap different from Spangur Lake? If so who controls the Lake?


Spangur Lake is entirely on Chinese side of LAC and controlled by Cheenis... However, India claims Western half of the lake as our territory...
China has a road from G219 along Southern bank of this lake...
Southern bank of the lake is around 5-10 km North East of LAC...

Spangur gap is the relatively plain 3 km wide area between two mountain ridge lines leading to the Spangur lake from Chushul... The two mountain ridge lines on the West and South-West form the Google Earth LAC...
There is a Chinese camp here... This is also where Moldo is located, the place where India and China Armies meet...

GE LAC on South West is the ridge line where Requin (or Rechin La) is located, which we seem to have officially occupied 2 days back giving us direct line of sight towards the entire Spangur lake and area...
GE LAC on West is another ridge line, which is also officially occupied by us and this ridgeline gives direct line of sight of entire Finger area in North bank and all Chinese positions in Southern bank of Pangong...
If I'm not wrong, Black top is the top-most point in the entire ridge, located on a branch ridge going towards East of this LAC-ridgeline on Chinese side of Google Earth LAC, which we may or maynot have occupied officially... Black Top gives a view of entire Pangong and Spangur lakes...
Last edited by LakshmanPST on 02 Sep 2020 18:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2020 17:58

** Breaking News **

Finger 4 ridgeline captured by IA

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2020 18:00

118 more Chinese Apps including PUBG banned just now.

Every time PLA does a misadventure, China is punished militarily and economically by India.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 18:03

SSridhar wrote:** Breaking News **

Finger 4 ridgeline captured by IA


It seems NOT so as per Indian army
https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/13 ... 94369?s=20

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 18:09

Iyersan wrote:
SSridhar wrote:** Breaking News **

Finger 4 ridgeline captured by IA


It seems NOT so as per Indian army
https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/13 ... 94369?s=20


Yes Finger 4 heights are within our side of LAC and we are readjusting to occupy the heights... I am clear in my understanding

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 18:12

nam wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:The boys are in for a long and arduous winter....Don"t envy them...
16 to 17000 ft in summer is bad enough..
Now the hardiness of the boys and the benefits of insurgency come to the fore...


This is where the SFF, AP & ladakh units will be shining. You cannot beat the locals. The Chinis have to drag 20 year old all the way from the East coast.

I expect the local recruitment to shoot up. They are fighting for their homes.

Just spoke to the High Command. Our bn is in the area. He was most happy to see the Vikas involvement. Vikas and Ladakh Scouts are sons of the soil!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 18:20

Iyersan wrote:
Iyersan wrote:
It seems NOT so as per Indian army
https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/13 ... 94369?s=20


Yes Finger 4 heights are within our side of LAC and we are readjusting to occupy the heights... I am clear in my understanding

A month ago we were saying that the Chinese have control from finger 4 to 8 incl Finger 4 ridgeline. This enabled them to look over our ITBP post at base of finger 3.

So according to you we have evicted the Chinese from that ridgeline without a fight and against the odds...

Just asking...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Iyersan » 02 Sep 2020 18:25

ks_sachin wrote:
Iyersan wrote:
Yes Finger 4 heights are within our side of LAC and we are readjusting to occupy the heights... I am clear in my understanding

A month ago we were saying that the Chinese have control from finger 4 to 8 incl Finger 4 ridgeline. This enabled them to look over our ITBP post at base of finger 3.

So according to you we have evicted the Chinese from that ridgeline without a fight and against the odds...

Just asking...


Not without a fight. Oh yeah there was a fight. we re adjusted
https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/13 ... 75904?s=20
Indian Army sources: “As part of the precautionary deployment carried out on 30 August 2020, some readjustments of our positions on North Bank of Pangong Tso Lake on our side of LAC had also been carried out.” (Love the use of word ‘readjustments’ Smiling face with sunglasses)


https://twitter.com/shatrujeet009/statu ... 83456?s=20

F4 ridgeline has been captured by IA in a daring counterattack by our SFF boy's. The PLA literally ran away without giving a fight. Status quo of May 2020 has been reinstated. The Chinese FM have been asking us to go back to F1.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby RajaRudra » 02 Sep 2020 18:31

LakshmanPST wrote:
RajaRudra wrote:Is the Spangur Gap different from Spangur Lake? If so who controls the Lake?


Spangur Lake is entirely on Chinese side of LAC and controlled by Cheenis... However, India claims Western half of the lake as our territory...
China has a road from G219 along Southern bank of this lake...
Southern bank of the lake is around 5-10 km North East of LAC...


Thanks for the detailed information. now i will try making use of maps to understand more.


-----
La means Pass, Tso means Lake , things learned during three months.
I feel, we will hear about preemptive deployment, re adjustment etc in the coming days very often.
China had unnecessarily waked up an elephant.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nam » 02 Sep 2020 18:34

F4 ridge line is very long. And if I see GE, there are multiple ingress locations. The Chinis were heavily deployed to block the path towards F8, from the top.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 18:38

nam wrote:F4 ridge line is very long. And if I see GE, there are multiple ingress locations. The Chinis were heavily deployed to block the path towards F8, from the top.

Hmmmm.

So you are saying that we got on to the ridgeline and then went down near their part of the ridgeline and somehow dislodged them from there without firing a shot?

Or we went unobserved along the ridgeline and then captured the post which presumably was at a point which gave good observation around a 360 degree arc

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby pankajs » 02 Sep 2020 18:44

RajaRudra wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:
Spangur Lake is entirely on Chinese side of LAC and controlled by Cheenis... However, India claims Western half of the lake as our territory...
China has a road from G219 along Southern bank of this lake...
Southern bank of the lake is around 5-10 km North East of LAC...


Thanks for the detailed information. now i will try making use of maps to understand more.


-----
La means Pass, Tso means Lake , things learned during three months.
I feel, we will hear about preemptive deployment, re adjustment etc in the coming days very often.
China had unnecessarily waked up an elephant.

Credit: Shiv Aoor

Looking down south from somewhere north of KT/HT (Kala top/ Black top)
Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby hanumadu » 02 Sep 2020 18:46

Since the chinese seem to be committed to no fire arms, at least so far, we are free to use their own tactics of hand combat to dislodge them. It's as if we are daring them to start a shooting war.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby shyamd » 02 Sep 2020 18:56

GOI Nat Sec establishment met yesterday gave green light to maintain current posture and further ops if required. GOI had no resort but to conduct the recent operations due to terrain/weather issues.

Def Min will be in Moscow for quiet talks with interlocutors from PRC. Let's hope things settle soon.


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