India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

[srin]

The sasser la route is blocked during winter. My first instinct was to think about tunneling under the pass. Till I discovered from Google Earth that it would have to be some 30 km across - not an easy undertaking.

Even if we leave Sasser route aside, what we need are a lot of tunnels near the LAC - for all weather capability and to withstand artillery/mortar interdiction - and artificial caverns for ammunition caching. It is going to take long time and will be quite difficult, but if we start now, in 10 years we may get somewhere.

[ks_sachin]

The sasser la route is blocked during winter. My first instinct was to think about tunneling under the pass. Till I discovered from Google Earth that it would have to be some 30 km across - not an easy undertaking.

Even if we leave Sasser route aside, what we need are a lot of tunnels near the LAC - for all weather capability and to withstand artillery/mortar interdiction - and artificial caverns for ammunition caching. It is going to take long time and will be quite difficult, but if we start now, in 10 years we may get somewhere.

To start and sustain we need to fix a multitude of issues in our political / mil industrial complex. That is where I worry that we don’t learn from history.

[bhavani]

It looks like it is time for us to start taking action and push back. At this point we cant back down and make the current status the status-quo. This will result soon in China pressing for more area.

I wonder if we do take action, it is going to be pure army action or it is going to be Air and Naval action also.

i was wondering on the steps of escalation. I think initially it is going to be just army action.But i think a pure army action will be quite heavy in terms of human losses.

[NRao]

China centric

1) Hold the current locations along the LAC
2) Start pushing east/north wherever possible
3) Prepare the nation for an extremely rough ride, including very, very serious economic hardships

A lot more to unpack on TSP side, SCS, etc. Seriously engage with other nations to counter China on all fronts.

Not an easy task.

Get an rabid anti china Raksha Mantri

[pankajs]

This might explain the explosion and the landslide on that fateful night.

https://twitter.com/Editor_Orbat/status ... 16003?s=20


"1/2 Prasun Sen Gupta has sent some fotos, and says Indian troops have managed to seize some heights in Galwan Valley (I assume on our side). I dont see how a human can climb this rock without the fully monty, forget about settig up posts"

Not really ... The mass that would come down if a landslide occurred around the track would be huge. A landslide this big on our side would have dammed the valley at the junction but the latest Sat photo shared of the India/China faceoff point does not show a blockage or even a hit of blockage.

[mahadevbhu]

I think that the clubbing will result in a retort by the Indian armed forces in some way.

It needs to be watched for - how why where and the like will be looked at by the PM and the top ministers. Something like a Balakot redux, or a Uri redux. Something like that would be being planned.

[VikramS]

This might explain the explosion and the landslide on that fateful night.

https://twitter.com/Editor_Orbat/status ... 16003?s=20


"1/2 Prasun Sen Gupta has sent some fotos, and says Indian troops have managed to seize some heights in Galwan Valley (I assume on our side). I dont see how a human can climb this rock without the fully monty, forget about settig up posts"

Not really ... The mass that would come down if a landslide occurred around the track would be huge. A landslide this big on our side would have dammed the valley at the junction but the latest Sat photo shared of the India/China faceoff point does not show a blockage or even a hit of blockage.

A landslide did occur that fateful night and led to some PLA casualties.. It was preceded by an "explosion" which Indian forces are attributing to a cloud-burst.

[pankajs]

Not really ... The mass that would come down if a landslide occurred around the track would be huge. A landslide this big on our side would have dammed the valley at the junction but the latest Sat photo shared of the India/China faceoff point does not show a blockage or even a hit of blockage.

A landslide did occur that fateful night and led to some PLA casualties.. It was preceded by an "explosion" which Indian forces are attributing to a cloud-burst.

Oh ... and I forgot to add. It was reported that the Indian side went into the Chinese side for a round 3 and the landslide occurred during that fight.

Per Abhijit Iyer, IA went ~5 km in, per some about 500m and other 1 km.

I think the IA went between 500 to 1 km in. Till 500 meter our boys had the upper hand and went on a rampage because of the unexpectedness of their attack. After that the Chinese were able to gather their wits and in numbers and give fight with the line of scrimmage extending between 500m upto 1 KM.

Based on the above scenario, constructed using some snippets of data and some imagination, the landslide seems to have between 500m to 1 km on the Chinese side.

Based on the physical evidence from Sat image plus the known data points we can safely say that there was no landslide on the Indian side. Therefore the track in the photo cannot be the cause or the boundary of a landslide.

[Cain Marko]

India should definitely take some proactive measures in the IOR and IPR... Get the quad going, get staging rights and treaties close to Chinese hot points... Have some bmos equipped ships stationed there almost permanently.

Closer to home, harass PLAN assets by chasing them with large ddgs, p8s and buzzing them with MKI. Let them know that their industry is at the mercy of the Hormuz and Malacca straits, and that is Indias backyard.

[Cain Marko]

I think that the clubbing will result in a retort by the Indian armed forces in some way.

It needs to be watched for - how why where and the like will be looked at by the PM and the top ministers. Something like a Balakot redux, or a Uri redux. Something like that would be being planned.

Yes, that's my take too. India has nothing to lose by escalating to the next rung...

[Davidrock]

A landslide did occur that fateful night and led to some PLA casualties.. It was preceded by an "explosion" which Indian forces are attributing to a cloud-burst.

Oh ... and I forgot to add. It was reported that the Indian side went into the Chinese side for a round 3 and the landslide occurred during that fight.

Per Abhijit Iyer, IA went ~5 km in, per some about 500m and other 1 km.

I think the IA went between 500 to 1 km in. Till 500 meter our boys had the upper hand and went on a rampage because of the unexpectedness of their attack. After that the Chinese were able to gather their wits and in numbers and give fight with the line of scrimmage extending between 500m upto 1 KM.

Based on the above scenario, constructed using some snippets of data and some imagination, the landslide seems to have between 500m to 1 km on the Chinese side.

Based on the physical evidence from Sat image plus the known data points we can safely say that there was no landslide on the Indian side. Therefore the track in the photo cannot be the cause or the boundary of a landslide.

I do not think that land slide ever happened. The fight most likely happened in the valley as heights are too steep.
The landslide was probably a face saver offered to china.

Interestingly, the water blockage was more than 500 meters behind, so since there are reports of soldiers falling in water, it was well more than 500m inside their part of LAC.

[NRao]

Interesting take.

China has been playing Go, not chess. India needs to learn the game

[syam]

Can't we do similar build up in Demchok area? What's stopping GoI from building good infra in that area?

It's very close to G219. Good choke point from our perspective. An airbase which can have 25-30 aircrafts. And few acres of army basecamp. There is a river close by which can provide water too.

[NRao]

With aggressive posturing along LAC, China turning bilateral relationship back to 1990s, says India

By name!

The Indian statement on Thursday carries a sting in the very last line by conveying that all gains made in the bilateral relationship in the past three decades will be lost if China does not de-escalate and disengage the PLA forces from the LAC. “India is quite capable of handling the military to military posture on the LAC but the entire economic relationship will go for a toss if PLA does not de-escalate. It cannot be business as usual for China if this situation continues. It is this call that General Secretary Xi Jinping has to take,” said a senior official.

[vera_k]

Interesting take.

China has been playing Go, not chess. India needs to learn the game

One interesting idea along these lines is a deal on Kashmir in return for access to GB.

[NRao]

From India Times.

China tries to pacify kin of unsung PLA soldiers
China on Wednesday attempted to pacify the aggrieved families of the Chinese soldiers killed in clashes with Indian troops along the LAC, without any official recognition from Beijing. Hu Xijin, editor of Global Times, the Chinese Communist Party regime’s mouthpiece, wrote that “the dead have been treated with the highest respect in the military, and that information will eventually be reported to society at the right time, so that heroes can be honored and remembered as they deserve”.

[Gyan]

As per some Indian Military experts, Rains in July will have detrimental bearing on Chinese Mobilization. Especially Armoured formations, which unless withdrawn will be stranded.

They are confident of de-escalation within next 1-2 days. Let's see!

[Hari Nair]

As per some Indian Military experts, Rains in July will have detrimental bearing on Chinese Mobilization. Especially Armoured formations, which unless withdrawn will be stranded...

^^^The South West Monsoon does NOT affect Ladakh in the sense that it affects the rest of our country.... just who are these "experts"!

[pushkar.bhat]

Self deleted.

[Cyrano]

Interesting take.

China has been playing Go, not chess. India needs to learn the game

I've been playing Go with my son since last year. This article makes a lot of sense. India should indeed learn to expand the zones of engagement and start dealing with China much beyond just our border touch points.

This non-alignement funda reeks of a colonial victim mindset. The question is not which camp India should align with, but aligning other nations, small and big to itself, for the pursuit of its goals.

GoI, Armed Forces, administrations both central & state, and all Indians, can no longer afford "dekha jaayega" attitude in 21st century.

[pankajs]

IFF the Indian LAC is 18 km from the bottleneck, the LAC actually extends to the North/South Chinese road on the right, at least at the Bottleneck.

My Google earth markings for DBO/Depsang with the latest that I could make sense of ...


LAC per Goole - Thin Red line that is marked on the image

Indian Roads - Blue
Chinese Roads - Red
Track unable to decide - Yellow

Indian positions - Yellow markers
Chinese positions - Red markers

[ks_sachin]

Interesting take.

China has been playing Go, not chess. India needs to learn the game

I've been playing Go with my son since last year. This article makes a lot of sense. India should indeed learn to expand the zones of engagement and start dealing with China much beyond just our border touch points.

This non-alignement funda reeks of a colonial victim mindset. The question is not which camp India should align with, but aligning other nations, small and big to itself, for the pursuit of its goals.

GoI, Armed Forces, administrations both central & state, and all Indians, can no longer afford "dekha jaayega" attitude in 21st century.

This colonial mindset is thoroughly embedded in the bureaucratic psyche.
In addition we as a nation have no grand plan or vision.

[syam]

If we compare GoI to computer, policies are like instructions. executive branch is like processor. As long as babus stuck in earlier 1st generation, they will never live up to our/general expectations. they execute things at their own pace. outdated and slow.

[Aditya_V]

As per some Indian Military experts, Rains in July will have detrimental bearing on Chinese Mobilization. Especially Armoured formations, which unless withdrawn will be stranded...

^^^The South West Monsoon does NOT affect Ladakh in the sense that it affects the rest of our country.... just who are these "experts"!

Yes Sir, but will remove Chinese pressure in Arunachal Sikkim and Central sectors, allowing all concentration to be in Ladakh.

[pankajs]

Thanks all for your comments. What I fail to understand is : how is it every time China does something unexpected, someone cries “betrayal”? Aren’t they your adversary? They are meant to do unexpected things. I totally fail to understand this line of thinking. I don’t know why we should expect China to follow some law, some treaty, when in their entire history as a communist state they have shown blatant disregard for exactly the same!

For all the bluster about China plans 1000 yrs in advance, they seem to remarkably predictable and have followed the same strategy time and time again. They want X, they’ll open a front at Y, then negotiate to back off from Y in exchange for X. All the while Y was never a dispute. They did this in Korea as well. I can comment on specifics and details about Korea if needed, but I won’t qualify my statement for now. I’ll leave it at - no advance north of the yellow river.

About their expedition in Vietnam - this was a pure and simple pacify the vassal state at the border to show who is king. Unfortunately for them, they got a sound thrashing and yet had the balls to declare victory like they did at doklam. In fact, according to them, they have never lost to any foreign power since 1949.

About the current standoff, maybe someone here can explain to me what is this business of mirror deployment and proportionate response? I have never come across these terms till now. As far as I can recall, we were never taught to fight fair, fight with a disproportionate advantage and inflict heavy punishment. So, matching OPFOR deployment and proportionate response to me makes little sense. Like it or not, a war is coming in due time. It would be unwise to wage it on their terms.

Finally, LBV - load bearing vest. OPFOR - opposing forces.

Spot on.

1. Our propensity to self delude is unparalleled in the world.
2. Our leaders belief in their capacity to persuade adversaries is unparalleled.
3. Our shrinking from a fight too is unparalleled. We use all sorts of logic and quote from our ancients and moderns to deflect a fight.

With regards to "communication" on our response to the situation as "mirror deployment" etc, we are still signalling to China and the world that we are interested in peace and de-escalation.

However, the actual situation on the ground "may not be" "mirror deployment". That we will not know or know only after it is all over.

[rkirankr]

https://twitter.com/shiningsurya96/stat ... 0995496960 njoy

[sooraj]

India-China border dispute: When Atal Bihari Vajpayee drove 800 sheep to Chinese embassy

Exposing China has been a challenge for the world. China never fails to surprise the world, particularly India with deception in its policies, domestic or foreign. But for once, it was rattled by the sheer political brilliance by a young Indian parliamentarian Atal Bihari Vajpayee in 1965.

One of the excuses that China had used for a military confrontation with India in 1967 was the charge that Indian soldiers had stolen its sheep and yaks. China made this claim in August-September 1965.

This was the time when China was itching for another territorial expansion by appropriating Sikkim, which was a kingdom under India's protection. It was also the time when India was busy fighting infiltrators from Pakistan in Kashmir.

Just three years ago, India had suffered a humiliating defeat in war. China was again threatening to "teach" another 1962-like lesson to India. However, as it turned out in the end, China miscalculated India's preparedness this time around.

China wrote a letter to the Indian government accusing Indian soldiers of stealing 800 sheep and 59 yaks. The Indian government obviously wrote back denying the ludicrous charge but the response that Vajpayee, then a 42-year-old Jan Sangh leader, gave left China fuming.

Vajpayee arranged for a herd of around 800 sheep and drove them to the Chinese embassy in New Delhi in late September. The sheep had placards tied saying, "Eat me but save the world."

This incensed China so much that it shot off another letter to the Lal Bahadur Shastri government. China had called the protest by Vajpayee an "insult" to the Chinese nation and alleged that it happened with the backing of the Shastri government.

In its response, India replied confirming that "some of the citizens of Delhi took in procession about 800 sheep" but said, "The Government of India had nothing to do with this demonstration. It was a spontaneous, peaceful and good-humoured expression of the resentment of the citizens of Delhi against the Chinese ultimatum and the threat of war against India on trumped-up and trivial issues. "

[pankajs]

nachiket,

You are looking at Track Junction, Burtse is as nrao points out. Much as I hate to say so, the more I read the more it becomes apparent that in this case and others the Chinese LAC *is* the LAC. Look at the map of patrol points from Quint and try to superimpose on google maps. The whole area was a huge vulnerability since it could only be accessed by foot patrols and air maintained through the DBO strip. We were at Chinese sufferance here. Another such area is Demchok, and the situation there was equally bad. It has improved hugely in Demchok ever since BRO built a road through Umling La. That, and the importance of Gapshan to DBO, is stuff for another post though.

Nrao,you got Burtse right. For Raki Nalla follow the track from Burtse to PP10 - most of it is along Raki Nallah. Another way is to look at Google maps in 3d and follow the base of Depsang plateau that lies to the NE of Burtse. Also use Wikimapia for better place names than google maps. I also like mapcarta https://mapcarta.com/ for arcane locations in Ladakh.

Every map that I have seen, the LAC on Depsang plain runs North/South ~5 km right of the Trac HQ plus Chinese have tracks extending right up to that N/S line.

Now, Bottleneck is ~7 km NE of Burtse Camp and IFFFF the LAC extends 18 km to the right of Bottleneck, we are talking of the North/South Chinese road around that point as the LAC. Ref: one of my previous post on the current page that has this marked on a map. Per Google and the rest, Bottleneck is on the LAC.

I remember some mention of a loss of 640 sq km area in Depsang plain. There was some kind of "settlement" at that time too. Now WHAT IF that area was never recovered BUT never acknowledged as lost?

The Chinese may now have again deployed forward but now that loss can be acknowledged and pinned on this GOI/Modi. So now we have news that Chinese have come 18 km across the LAC which is technically correct based on our claim line.

This is what I was able to dig up ... may be this is NOT the full picture but it does support my theory above.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... e-did-not/
Chinese intrusion: What the defence minister said and what he did not

In April the defence ministry confirmed to a Parliamentary panel that the Chinese had set up a temporary camp 19 km inside the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the Depsang plains. After three weeks of confrontation India presumably agreed to demolish the bunkers it had built in the “Chumar” region and withdrew from its position to end the stalemate. Since these areas are an integral part of India, why India withdrew from its own territory is a mystery. With this, India seems to have lost its right to get back to the very same area and we cannot prevent China from asserting that India withdrew from these places since they were at fault and the area did not belong to them. On the contrary the Chinese were nowhere in the area prior to the incident but all along kept proclaiming “Our troops are patrolling on the Chinese side of the LAC and have never trespassed the line”.

It is not without reason that the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), which patrols the border with China had reportedly told the government in April that 640 sq km in Raki Nala in north-east Ladakh had been inaccessible to our troops because of a large incursion by the Chinese army. In these areas, domination patrols are meant to assert our rights over the area which we consider belong to us, in this case the areas up to the LAC. These patrols involve movement on foot for a number of days. The structures which we are talking about are perhaps locations meant for our patrols going up to the LAC to rest at night. With these structures having been removed, it obviously seems like the end of patrolling up to our claim line. This certainly weakens our position and territorial claims besides undermining the initiative of our Security Forces.

When a country loses its right to patrol the area which it considers its own, with the other side retaining its right to do so, does it not amount to loss of territory? If the situation continues this way, wouldn’t China claim these areas as its own? It may be recalled that China constructed the National Highway (National Highway G 219) connecting Yecheng (Xinjiang) and Lhatse (Tibet) (2086km) which passes through Aksai Chin commencing from 1951 and completed in 1957. The construction of the road was not known to the Indian government until the completion of the construction was announced in Chinese official newspaper in 1957. Without any semblance of our interest, presence or activity in the area, China laid claims on Aksai Chin (37244 sq km) after the 1962 war. Will this be repeated in Depsang?

May be we did get back to patrolling up to "18 km to the right of Bottleneck" later.

[Cyrano]

What a SHAM this Line of Actual Control concept is. Who ever came up with this, had no other intention but to scr€w India over.

What is stopping India from claiming ALL the lands of Askai-Bharat as our official maps do and demand China to withdraw beyond those limits?

Its ridiculous to debate the alignment of LAC few kms to east or west when the Chinese are already 100s of KMs inside our territory.

Haai Ram !!

[Larry Walker]

If Chinese are on Y-junction - then this is huge intrusion and it bottles-up Indian forces from breaking out into AC and puts India in permanent defensive position. It will be a perrenial threat to DSDBO and would divert considerable resources to protect Chinese breakout even when our focus is to the west.
This is humiliating - they took over almost entrie AC and now they lay claim to areas which we had - and we rather than retaking what they captured are now massing to protect even further Chinese ingress.
We need to break this Chinese shackle and launch a campaign to retake AC - anything short of this will encourage Chinese to keep repeating this every year.

[nam]

Who came up with LAC? Our inability to militarily defeat China.

The no weapons rule suits both side, otherwise it will be a daily war. We could shoot PLA soldiers patrolling 1-2KM away, they could do the same. Any side can launch offensive to capture the next hill..

The only way for us is to deploy in strength AND build defensive posts near our current line. Just like the Chinese have been doing.

We got to stop whining about Chinese incursion and start building.

[Larry Walker]

Chinese have made it very difficult for us. They are treacherous - they just did not ingress - but they also built up and entire attack force behind it. So now "pushing back" is no longer a post-by-post affair - we cannot send a small raiding party and expect them to capture posts and survive. What the Chinese have now done is that they have captured our posts and then made it impossible for us to retake it at a local or sector level. Their challenge to us is that - if you need the posts back - come out and fight with us.
On our side we have to keep the theatre limited to areas of dispute - attacking them outside of these theatres will remove the escalation ladder leverage.

[kumarn]

All the news of the loss of territory now is like the NPA in the banks - Created during the congress government, acknowledged now under modi.

[nam]

Chinese have made it very difficult for us. They are treacherous - they just did not ingress - but they also built up and entire attack force behind it. So now "pushing back" is no longer a post-by-post affair - we cannot send a small raiding party and expect them to capture posts and survive. What the Chinese have now done is that they have captured our posts and then made it impossible for us to retake it at a local or sector level. Their challenge to us is that - if you need the posts back - come out and fight with us.
On our side we have to keep the theatre limited to areas of dispute - attacking them outside of these theatres will remove the escalation ladder leverage.

LAC is 3400KM long. There is nothing stopping us from intruding in force and giving the same medicine to the Chinese.

Go to our claim line in strength and start building road and structure. Do it all along the LAC, let the Chinese defend their line in numbers, sitting on those isolated & freezing heights, instead of nice comfy Eastern seaboard.

[pankajs]

Ok so someone has been briefing journalists on all these vital petrol points. Best map so far, in Quint:

Quint: Patrolling beyond Bottleneck limited since March

Trying to locate Raki Nala and Jiwan Nala based on the above diagram so that we could narrow the search area and approximate the rest of the patrol points.

An attempt ... Jiwan nala seems to be the most significant feature between Galwan and Depsang La based on some snippets that I have read.
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... northeast/
DSDBO Road completed – but what of the scam and the northeast? -- Lt Gen Prakash Katoch

Good that the DSDBO road at least will help dominate the LAC and areas abutting Aksai Chin, Jiwan Nalla and Chip-Chap River etc.

[RaviB]

https://www.amazon.com/2022-Indias-two- ... 1091617422

This is the link for buying it in the US. (has all details. More reviews are in Amazon.in). It is available in Paperback and kindle.

Received it yesterday, looking forward to reading it!

[pankajs]

1. Red line on the right side of the image mark the Chinese road/track.
2. Blue line on the left is DSDBO Road
3. Yellow line in the middle of the upper half is the likely alignment of Raki Nala.
4. Jiwan Nala is marked as a thick red line at the bottom left going towards DSDBO Road/Murgo.

The area in between is our playground. Did our patrols walk up to and on the Chinese built road/track while making their routine patrols?

[Larry Walker]

LAC is 3400KM long. There is nothing stopping us from intruding in force and giving the same medicine to the Chinese.

Go to our claim line in strength and start building road and structure. Do it all along the LAC, let the Chinese defend their line in numbers, sitting on those isolated & freezing heights, instead of nice comfy Eastern seaboard.

Sir - it is our hysterical behaviour that prevents it. The force that is required to take land in another area is the force that is currently against Chinese forces in Depsang. So if you take some of their land in some other sector - Chinese will happily roll into Leh/Ladakh and entire nation will ho beserk that Modi has lost Indian land - no one will bother that we have captured some of theirs. Again this is where our handicap of not being able to threaten anything of real value to Chinese bogs us down. We can happily sit on some frozen barren land and Chinese will annex Leh/Ladakh. The only way out of this it to go kinetic and take on Chinese in Depsang. They have not planned for entire LAC going hot nor can we afford it. And once Chinese will get into Leh/Ladakh - they will not swap it for any piece of barren land that India has captured. And for India again the same classic short-coming - come winter if you cannot sustain your posts in the mountains - how do you plan to hold lands beyond the mountains.

[nam]

Sir - it is our hysterical behaviour that prevents it. The force that is required to take land in another area is the force that is currently against Chinese forces in Depsang. So if you take some of their land in some other sector - Chinese will happily roll into Leh/Ladakh and entire nation will ho beserk that Modi has lost Indian land - no one will bother that we have captured some of theirs. Again this is where our handicap of not being able to threaten anything of real value to Chinese bogs us down. We can happily sit on some frozen barren land and Chinese will annex Leh/Ladakh. The only way out of this it to go kinetic and take on Chinese in Depsang. They have not planned for entire LAC going hot nor can we afford it. And once Chinese will get into Leh/Ladakh - they will not swap it for any piece of barren land that India has captured. And for India again the same classic short-coming - come winter if you cannot sustain your posts in the mountains - how do you plan to hold lands beyond the mountains.

We have more troops than PLA on LAC and communication lines are shorter. So NO PLA cannot take over Leh.

This applies to China as well. If they invade, becoz we made a intrusion, we can start our invasion from the intrusion point.

PLA is able to intrude and occupy because there are no shots fired. Same for us. If they fire, we lit up their forces on LAC.

[pankajs]

LAC is 3400KM long. There is nothing stopping us from intruding in force and giving the same medicine to the Chinese.

Go to our claim line in strength and start building road and structure. Do it all along the LAC, let the Chinese defend their line in numbers, sitting on those isolated & freezing heights, instead of nice comfy Eastern seaboard.

Sir - it is our hysterical behaviour that prevents it. The force that is required to take land in another area is the force that is currently against Chinese forces in Depsang. So if you take some of their land in some other sector - Chinese will happily roll into Leh/Ladakh and entire nation will ho beserk that Modi has lost Indian land - no one will bother that we have captured some of theirs. Again this is where our handicap of not being able to threaten anything of real value to Chinese bogs us down. We can happily sit on some frozen barren land and Chinese will annex Leh/Ladakh. The only way out of this it to go kinetic and take on Chinese in Depsang. They have not planned for entire LAC going hot nor can we afford it. And once Chinese will get into Leh/Ladakh - they will not swap it for any piece of barren land that India has captured. And for India again the same classic short-coming - come winter if you cannot sustain your posts in the mountains - how do you plan to hold lands beyond the mountains.

1. This is not true. What we have facing the Chinese is significant but far less that what we could deploy. As properly planned defense needs 1/3 to 1/10 the attacking force. "some" of the rest could be used to grab land.

2. 2nd Highlight is fanciful to say the least. Our defensive deployment is sufficient to keep Chinese out of Leh/Ladhak. Our reserves can be deployed to nibble territory just like the Chinese are doing right now.

It is not a military but a political call that India is not pressing for. India/GOI/Modi are still hoping for a peaceful settlement and therefore not forcing the issue. We have had Chinese aggression before that ultimately wound up without a fight after months. We are yet to cross the old records for such matters.

3. 3rd Highlight. Chinese are ALREADY in Ladhak since about 1950. They will never get to Leh for reason discussed before and in the previous point.

For the last time, We are adequately matched with the Chinese as far as defense of Ladhak/Led is concerned. Chinese will grab some territory somewhere and we too CAN do the same resulting in a swap BUT there is no political direction for that at present.

Rest of your logic is predicated on them capturing some big population center and therefore falls on logic UNLESS you claim that the Chinman is 100 feet tall and will decimate 5-6 feet Indian in a one on one fight.

THIS is getting repetitive without an iota of work/application of mind "Chinese will annex Leh/Ladakh". It is NOT adding value to the forum discussion or increasing anyone's knowledge or sharing new insights.

This is more akin trolling or flaming. IFFFF you are so insecure that you need daily dose of assurance on the safety of Leh I would recommend a break from posting.

I am going to start reporting you post hence as trolling if you repeat "Chinese will annex Leh/Ladakh" or something similar unless you can back it up with some good logic/insight.