India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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Suresh S
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Suresh S » 17 Jun 2020 04:17

mods please spare us this chinese troll please . A disgusting country and it,s snake, bat and scorpion eating disgusting people occupies Tibet which does not belong to it than continues to take over Indian territories and thousands of miles from their han mainland. Enough of this peacenik bullshit. Hit them and hit them hard these bast*ds.No more of this katininda/different perceptions of two sides bull. I am on record on this very thread few weeks ago that India will be attacked by China sooner rather than later and we will be forever in reactive mod. Make general V K singh as defense minister with immediate effect.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby fanne » 17 Jun 2020 04:21

khan wrote:^ Artilley? AirPower?


where is that coming from khan saheb? No body on SM has even speculated that.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby DavidD » 17 Jun 2020 04:24

Sanju wrote:Landslides???


Maybe, and it sounds like twice as many PLA soldiers died, maybe that's the real reason China won't release the casualty count. Either way, I just don't see how either side would benefit from a war there. I generally use analysis of motivations to help assess the situation, and I don't see any clear motivation for either side to escalate this.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby KLNMurthy » 17 Jun 2020 04:31

+1 fanne

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ldev » 17 Jun 2020 04:35

DavidD wrote:I generally don't buy too much into media reports on either side. My assessment is that neither side has much to gain by escalating the situation, and it's also very odd that 20 - 40+ would die on each side in a non-firing brawl. I wonder if it's some sort of terrain related incident where a bunch of people on both sides fell off a cliff during a scuffle, perhaps from an unstable rock. That may explain the fairly restrained rhetoric coming from officials on both sides right now.


I would suggest that you get rid of Xi at the very least and the entire CCP preferably. Without that China will not leave any of it's neighbors in peace from Taiwan to the South China Sea to India.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby samirdiw » 17 Jun 2020 04:51

Great images Idev +1

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby ldev » 17 Jun 2020 04:55

samirdiw wrote:Great images Idev +1

Thanks. I thought that a bird's eye view of the terrain makes the discussion so much more meaningful.

I was re-looking at the Google earth image and I am fairly certain that the confrontation happened on top and at the very edge of the spur to the right of the Galwan river. PLA soldiers would have come along the ridge top from the LAC to the very edge of the ridge from where they would have an unfettered view of the DBO road. That is what I presume Shooklaw was shouting about that the DBO road was under PLA observation. The fall from that position down the cliff to the Shyok river below would have been fatal.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby DavidD » 17 Jun 2020 05:10

ldev wrote:
DavidD wrote:I generally don't buy too much into media reports on either side. My assessment is that neither side has much to gain by escalating the situation, and it's also very odd that 20 - 40+ would die on each side in a non-firing brawl. I wonder if it's some sort of terrain related incident where a bunch of people on both sides fell off a cliff during a scuffle, perhaps from an unstable rock. That may explain the fairly restrained rhetoric coming from officials on both sides right now.


I would suggest that you get rid of Xi at the very least and the entire CCP preferably. Without that China will not leave any of it's neighbors in peace from Taiwan to the South China Sea to India.


Your words to God's ears.... I'm no fan of Xi's rule. It started pretty well with the anti-corruption drive, but it's been downhill since then. Concentrating on SOEs, emperor for life, wolf warrior diplomats, all very poor decisions IMO. Seems to me that this current spat and the Dolam one before this are all unnecessary distractions.

IMO, if he wants to improve Chinese lives, he should single-mindedly focus on the tech war. Win that and everything else will come easily. These barren rocks, though, offer nothing. The only thing I can think of as to why China hasn't settled the dispute there is to provoke India into buying foreign weapons instead of building up its own MIC. These says it may also be useful to distract India from Pakistan, but when China settled most of the land borders Pakistan was pretty deeply entrenched in the American camp. IDK, can't quite figure out why successive Chinese administrations would settle all border disputes except the India/Bhutan one.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Davidrock » 17 Jun 2020 05:46

From the google maps, Galwan river vally for us is like the Neelam vally for pakistan. We have a narrow sliver of land to be protected on the east of the river which is 2-4km from dotted line that I can see in google maps from outside India. With a river behind you, extremely hard to fight.

There is no clarity about where is our claim line and where is chinese claim line.

Google maps also shows a road called "Road to SSN", on the banks of the river which is at best 5-6 km from dotted line in the nearest point. Can somone tell if this is the DSDBO road ?

PS: how can I upload images to this thread ? Cant see any option

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Davidrock » 17 Jun 2020 06:06


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby saip » 17 Jun 2020 06:27

Piecing together several reports, I believe the Chinese started the altercation by assaulting the Colonel and the two soldiers on a narrow ridge which caused them to fall down into the valley and when the Indian reinforcements showed up the Chinese too rushed without realizing the fragility of the ridge which then collapsed under the weight of the people causing many of them to fall to their death. Not a real skirmish but the result of a foolish Chinese action. So may not cause any escalation.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Philip » 17 Jun 2020 07:04

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Last edited by Philip on 17 Jun 2020 07:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Philip » 17 Jun 2020 07:05

There is little use in sending in more troops to battle at 14K heights if they refuse to withdraw and de-escalate. Arty and heavy mortars may not be adequate to remove them from their positions.Incurring more heavy casualties would increasecour pain.We must unflict pain upon them using other tactics. If they still keep to our side of the LAC then air power should be our next move,obliterating their positions and their main rear base/ airport at Ngari Gansa,etc. The opportunity to then seize territory which would give us a tactical advantage on the ground in this sector must be taken as well as destroying key points on the highway to Pak in Aksai Chin. Severing the link between Chinese held territory in AC and POK should be our strategic objective as well as causing as many deaths of Chin soldiers. We must hit them swiftly and hit them as hard as we can with overwhelming firepower.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Jun 2020 07:09

NDTV is reporting 20 Indian soldiers are dead and Chinese casualties are 43

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 07:11

https://twitter.com/fravel/status/12730 ... 00672?s=21

Xi Jinping’s phone call with Ecuador’s president dominates Xinhua’s homepage this morning, Beijing time. The only mention of Galwan clash is “below the fold,” and just a link to the Western Command’s statement from yesterday. No signs China is trying to mobilize public opinion.


To me, all indications are this was a mis-Fire & the Chinese will go away on their own.

If this thing goes kinetic, these intrusions will be the least of anyone’s problems. We will be discussing the status of bridges & tunnels on G219.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby manjgu » 17 Jun 2020 07:19

Davidrock wrote:From the google maps, Galwan river vally for us is like the Neelam vally for pakistan. We have a narrow sliver of land to be protected on the east of the river which is 2-4km from dotted line that I can see in google maps from outside India. With a river behind you, extremely hard to fight.

There is no clarity about where is our claim line and where is chinese claim line.

Google maps also shows a road called "Road to SSN", on the banks of the river which is at best 5-6 km from dotted line in the nearest point. Can somone tell if this is the DSDBO road ?

PS: how can I upload images to this thread ? Cant see any option


Sir ...its not 2 to 4 km ... from the confluence of galwan nullah and shyok the LAC is atleast 1.5 days walk with ponies... btw in army its called galwan nullah. But yes ... the road is under observation of chini but its usefulness remains as it allows us to move quickly. Chini is not worried abt dsdbo road as much as it is worried about feeder roads radiating from dsdbo rd to lac as it allows easier access to lac

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby gakakkad » 17 Jun 2020 07:25

Aditya_V wrote:NDTV is reporting 20 Indian soldiers are dead and Chinese casualties are 43


Which means it's a lot higher than 43.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 Jun 2020 07:30

Sometimes it is better to let an uninvited guest come in and not allow him to leave.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 17 Jun 2020 07:33

khan wrote:Also would like to point out how, the day started with 3 IA casualties (zero Chinese) and ended with 20 IA & 40+ Chinese casualties.

While people here were demanding press briefings and statements to Parliament, IA & GOI was busy making the facts on the ground more favorable to Indian interests.

There is no reason to think this has process has stopped, let this play out.


Much higher Chinese casualties (they don't have great medical facilities close by) despite their plans and numerical superiority indicate that the topography of the conflict area and visibility impairment at night possibly played a factor in the deaths of many Chinese and some Indian soldiers.

It also seems that the attack on the CO was preplanned and it needs to be avenged. Sooner the better. More enemy soldiers dead due to landslide isn't a factor here.

Until Cheen are pushed back to pre April locations, operations need to continue and India would be justified in using firepower after publicly stating it (so it cannot be twisted). Use of airpower (other than for logistics) would not be used as it would be escalation by several notches.

Precision Excalibur rounds in sufficient numbers are more than enough.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby SriKumar » 17 Jun 2020 07:35

Note: Casualities is not deaths. Some in media are conflating the two. Casualities are deaths + seriously injured.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby arshyam » 17 Jun 2020 07:38

nam wrote:
ldev wrote:This action is literally on the other side of the shallow Shyok river just across the road to DBO as the satellite map illustrates


I think it is on the LAC in the Galwan valley, not at the point of joining. I believe there is a metal road from the Chinese side along the valley near to the LAC, which they use to come down.

There is a video of our troops on one side of the side and Chini on the other side. That is definitely not as large as the confluence point of the rivers..

Yes - the point where the dotted line crosses the river, and where the river turns sharply south is PP14 and most likely the clash happened in the ridges around it, hence landslide, etc. PP 14 itself is on the river banks and not on the heights surrounding the area - so the chinese would try to dominate it if they got a chance. There were some closer photos of the place posted earlier on this thread via some news article.

Also, the DS-DBO road runs to the west of the Shyok river, but in addition, we have built a bridge across the river to support a road going along the Galwan river to PP 14. This was ostensibly one of the reasons for the recent standoff. Now we should at minimum, ensure that this road gets built up to PP14 and occupy the heights surrounding it come winter (I believe they don't stay dug in at all points in the extreme cold of winter). If needed, "encourage" the chinese troops, if any, to seek warmer locations and get the heck out of these heights.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby chetak » 17 Jun 2020 07:38

Image



China initiated the violent standoff that led to casualties on both sides, tried to change status quo, confirms MEA: Read the full statement



After the India Army released a statement stating that casualties have been suffered by both sides in “violent face-off” during the de-escalation process with China in Galwan Valley, Ladakh, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) in an official statement said that the violent face-off in Eastern Ladakh took place because of China’s attempts to unilaterally change status quo.

MEA issues official statement on the violent face off in Eastern Ladakh
“India and China have been discussing through military and diplomatic channels the de-escalation of the situation in the border area in Eastern Ladakh,” a statement from the Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said. He added that senior commanders had a meeting to on June 6 wherein they agreed on a process of de-escalation.

“India has always maintained that its activities are within the Indian side of LAC. While it was our expectation that this would unfold smoothly, the Chinese side departed from the consensus to respect the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the Galwan Valley”, read the official statement by MEA.

Confirming that both sides suffered casualties, the statement read that on the late-evening and night of 15th June, 2020 a violent face-off happened which could be avoided had the agreement at the higher level been scrupulously followed by the Chinese side.

India stands committed to ensuring India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity

“Given its responsible approach to border management, India is very clear that all its activities are always within the Indian side of the LAC. We expect the same of the Chinese side. We remain firmly convinced of the need for the maintenance of peace and tranquillity in the border areas and the resolution of differences through dialogue. At the same time, we are also strongly committed to ensuring India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity,” read the statement.
Last edited by chetak on 17 Jun 2020 07:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nvishal » 17 Jun 2020 07:44

Did you guys notice in all incidents so far that the chinese troop strength always overpowered the indian side?

Is this a coincidence? Nope. I think they where flying a drone with thermal camera that night tracking our patrol strength. Even our secondary reinforcements where being outmatching at the site.

They have aerial view, garage weapons, troops on standby, power from leadership to engage at will etc etc. A merit nerd cannot match a goonda.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 07:45

schinnas wrote:
It also seems that the attack on the CO was preplanned and it needs to be avenged. Sooner the better. More enemy soldiers dead due to landslide isn't a factor here.


Col Dinny in an interview with Nitin Gokhale said - he didn’t think it was pre-planned. He said it was probably because of the stress of the whole thing - they have been staring at each other for a month in miserable conditions and so on.

Also, I don’t think it was a landslide - apparently they fought for a few hours. I think IA really did kill 2X Chinese troops including their CO - so vengeance has already happened.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 07:47

nvishal wrote:Did you guys notice in all incidents so far that the chinese troop strength always overpowered the indian side?

Is this a coincidence? Nope. I think they where flying a drone with thermal camera that night tracking our patrol strength. Even our secondary reinforcements where being outmatching at the site.

They have aerial view, garage weapons, troops on standby, power from leadership to engage at will etc etc. A merit nerd cannot match a goonda.

They lost 2X people as IA. How do you explain that?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nvishal » 17 Jun 2020 08:10

khan wrote:They lost 2X people as IA. How do you explain that?

How is that even possible when they(chinese) apprehended our unarmed soldiers? Look at Shiv aroors summary of the events. It is common sense. They kept on their offensive position till they sensed that india was starting to shift from its defensive position.

Code: Select all

After Lt Gen-level talks 10 days ago, *token* disengagement had begun - few tents. Last week, a camp that had been removed by Chinese was brought back. CO & group of men (unarmed) went to the camp to tell Chinese to follow disengagement plan, quickly came under attack with stones. Chinese soldiers assaulted with barbed wire clubs etc. CO grievously hurt, removed immediately. Remaining soldiers surrounded, held by Chinese. By sunset, CO succumbs to injuries + unarmed Indian men still held by Chinese. Indian Major & more go to camp, armed with their own melee weapons. Come under attack, fight back hard. Casualties inflicted among Indian captive men + several on Chinese side too. More Chinese troops arrive from nearby camp, surround 1st camp where fighting is still on. Fighting spreads, moves up ridge over fast-flowing Galwan River, several fall steep cliff onto rocks/into river during fighting. On hill feature overlooking, Chinese earthworks spotted. Landslide like situation. A Chinese Brigadier arrives on site, orders troops back, and to pick up casualties. Indian Army men retrieve bodies downstream in the darkness. Herculean task in that cold. Have to trek down etc. By morning several of the Indian men have succumbed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby schinnas » 17 Jun 2020 08:14

At present there is no official confirmation or video proof of enemy casualties. Until then, we dont know the exact number but let us hope it is 2X or more of ours.

That said, until enemy CO is still safe, revenge hasn't happened. Equally important is to push them back from their ill conceived plan to change status quo. They need to be pushed back to pre April locations and visibly so with the whole location details shared with global media so Cheen cannot try the same game again.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Rishi_Tri » 17 Jun 2020 08:22

schinnas wrote:At present there is no official confirmation or video proof of enemy casualties. Until then, we dont know the exact number but let us hope it is 2X or more of ours.

That said, until enemy CO is still safe, revenge hasn't happened. Equally important is to push them back from their ill conceived plan to change status quo. They need to be pushed back to pre April locations and visibly so with the whole location details shared with global media so Cheen cannot try the same game again.


Enemy CO was killed.

Radio intercepts have indicated that at least 43 casualties on Chinese side.

The Mighty Chinese with all their 100s of troops, infra, drones and what not .. and still 43 casualties.. This is a disaster for Chinese.

Everyone worth his salt would know that Indians are best mountain warriors in the world. Three decades of practice in Kashmir. And it has been proven so.
Last edited by Rishi_Tri on 17 Jun 2020 08:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 08:23

nvishal wrote:
khan wrote:They lost 2X people as IA. How do you explain that?

How is that even possible when they(chinese) apprehended our unarmed soldiers? Look at Shiv aroors summary of the events. It is common sense. They kept on their offensive position till they sensed that india was starting to shift from its defensive position.

Code: Select all

After Lt Gen-level talks 10 days ago, *token* disengagement had begun - few tents. Last week, a camp that had been removed by Chinese was brought back. CO & group of men (unarmed) went to the camp to tell Chinese to follow disengagement plan, quickly came under attack with stones. Chinese soldiers assaulted with barbed wire clubs etc. CO grievously hurt, removed immediately. Remaining soldiers surrounded, held by Chinese. By sunset, CO succumbs to injuries + unarmed Indian men still held by Chinese. Indian Major & more go to camp, armed with their own melee weapons. Come under attack, fight back hard. Casualties inflicted among Indian captive men + several on Chinese side too. More Chinese troops arrive from nearby camp, surround 1st camp where fighting is still on. Fighting spreads, moves up ridge over fast-flowing Galwan River, several fall steep cliff onto rocks/into river during fighting. On hill feature overlooking, Chinese earthworks spotted. Landslide like situation. A Chinese Brigadier arrives on site, orders troops back, and to pick up casualties. Indian Army men retrieve bodies downstream in the darkness. Herculean task in that cold. Have to trek down etc. By morning several of the Indian men have succumbed.

I am going off this narrative: https://stratnewsglobal.com/casualties- ... 10-points/

I don’t think anyone apprehended anyone, it was just soldiers missing in the fog of war.

And this video I found informative: https://youtu.be/PzDUVlb4a1w

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby putnanja » 17 Jun 2020 08:23

How can India allow chinese helicopters to evacuate their dead and wounded if our soldiers are in their custody? I think there is something wrong in reporting

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Jay » 17 Jun 2020 08:27

Rishi_Tri wrote:
Enemy CO was killed.

Radio intercepts have indicated that at least 43 casualties on Chinese side.



You are very right when you ask, do you believe China? I do not, to a certain extent. But how is anybody supposed to believe your statement saying China suffered twice the causalities? You are not peddling any sources too. Its all hearsay at this point. The only thing that we know happened was, there was a fight and we lost 20 soldiers and China also lost some.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby NRao » 17 Jun 2020 08:31

manjgu wrote:
Sir ...its not 2 to 4 km ... from the confluence of galwan nullah and shyok the LAC is atleast 1.5 days walk with ponies... btw in army its called galwan nullah. But yes ... the road is under observation of chini but its usefulness remains as it allows us to move quickly. Chini is not worried abt dsdbo road as much as it is worried about feeder roads radiating from dsdbo rd to lac as it allows easier access to lac


It is about 2 miles, or 3.2 Kms.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jammu ... 76.5761714

It is possible that by walk/mule this distance takes more than a day. But the distance is not an issue.
Last edited by NRao on 17 Jun 2020 08:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby samirdiw » 17 Jun 2020 08:32

These guys are so far away from the mainland while we are so close to ours and how they still manage to overwhelm our troops? Got to admire the mettle of the chinese to bully someone equal in population 3000 km away. All they have are 2 -3 roads from the mainland. They are also same humans like us not some demi-gods. At some point their determination and ambition needs admiration.


Code: Select all

A Indian Major & more go to camp, armed with their own melee weapons. Come under attack, fight back hard.
Why didnt he just take guns and shoot these homesick MF's down? He and some others are prob dead now? At worst we could have claimed stress or something as an excuse instead of having martyrs over a non-battle.

also 43 casualties dont mean 43 dead it could be 3 dead (as initially reported) and 40 injured.
Last edited by samirdiw on 17 Jun 2020 08:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 08:32

Jay wrote:
Rishi_Tri wrote:
Enemy CO was killed.

Radio intercepts have indicated that at least 43 casualties on Chinese side.



You are very right when you ask, do you believe China? I do not, to a certain extent. But how is anybody supposed to believe your statement saying China suffered twice the causalities? You are not peddling any sources too. Its all hearsay at this point. The only thing that we know happened was, there was a fight and we lost 20 soldiers and China also lost some.

ANI reported it. This is India’s Global Times: https://twitter.com/ani/status/1272927922177765376?s=21

Also US News & World report came up with a similar number quoting US Intelligence sources.

Added later:
American intelligence believes 35 Chinese troops died, including one senior officer, a source familiar with that assessment tells U.S. News. The incident took place during a meeting in the mountainous region between the two sides – both of which had agreed to disarm – to determine how the two militaries would safely withdraw their presences from the region.


Link here: https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor ... in-decades

Looks like 35 dead including their CO + at-least 7 wounded.
Last edited by khan on 17 Jun 2020 08:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby nvishal » 17 Jun 2020 08:38

The only thing we know right now for certain is that the chinese side attacked first and overwhelmed the indian side at each junction. This isn't new. They did the same thing in 62 when they swarmed into india with massive troops overwhelming the few indian police posts at various intersection.

They are clearly counting/tracking our troops and assets position every single day.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby Sid » 17 Jun 2020 08:48

putnanja wrote:How can India allow chinese helicopters to evacuate their dead and wounded if our soldiers are in their custody? I think there is something wrong in reporting


Fog of war, situation is still evolving. It will take weeks/months for all of this to die down.

Indian borders with China have always been like this, they claim Z and we claim Y. Same post which Chinese patrols occupy for few months a year, India will occupy for remaining time. This happen on entire border with China where we don’t have IB marked.

But this seems to be different, and may be designed for some bigger goal which may involve full scale escalation.

Folks comparing casualties are doing it only for Twitter war and may miss the bigger picture.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 08:54

Sid wrote:Folks comparing casualties are doing it only for Twitter war and may miss the bigger picture.

It is actually very significant. If they took out a CO & it was not avenged, then it’s a serious morale problem. Similarly the avenging of the death of a CO could lead to an escalatory spiral. From the sense of keeping a lid on things, it is good that the loses were proportionate, so there isn’t a desire for vengeance.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby khan » 17 Jun 2020 09:05

On the other end of the spectrum here are a couple of inflammatory news articles:

https://www.news18.com/news/india/pla-d ... 73347.html

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 059_1.html

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby yensoy » 17 Jun 2020 09:13

nvishal wrote:The only thing we know right now for certain is that the chinese side attacked first and overwhelmed the indian side at each junction. This isn't new. They did the same thing in 62 when they swarmed into india with massive troops overwhelming the few indian police posts at various intersection.
They are clearly counting/tracking our troops and assets position every single day.

If this is premeditated, then it's not a matter of the troops acting up due to stress.

Another thing to learn is to keep close track of enemy troops and always ensure numerical or strategic advantage so that such actions can be inflicted on them. This is the difference between a good poker player and a good poker player who counts cards.

samirdiw
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Postby samirdiw » 17 Jun 2020 09:17

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... out-china/

The deaths of 20 Indian soldiers, including a commanding officer, in the first deadly clash with Chinese troops in 45 years came as Beijing and New Delhi had supposedly reached an agreement to lower the tension along their disputed border in the mountainous region of Ladakh, high in the Himalayas.

India blames China for trying to alter the status quo at the Line of Actual Control, or the LAC. Since May 5, Chinese troops had crossed the border and squatted on Indian territory, triggering a standoff. When Indian soldiers went into the Galwan Valley to supervise what was meant to be the agreed retreat of Chinese troops from the area, they were attacked by 500 Chinese troops with stones, iron rods, nails and other objects. It was a brutal attack on Indian soil, according to official accounts. There are also reports of Chinese casualties.

For the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, this represents a grave and delicate national security challenge. But it’s clear that India must at once reset the terms of its relationship with China. India should accept that while it has spent a great deal of resources and political energy on Pakistan, with whom it has gone to war four times, its real adversary today is China.

Instead, for years India has built a false sense of stability and security around the absence of deadly conflict at its border with China. Until recently, Modi himself boasted that “not a single bullet has been fired” on the disputed border in decades.

But India now has clear evidence of China’s insidious intentions. The details emerging about the killing of the 20 Indian soldiers in hand-to-hand combat are horrific, including accounts of some Indian soldiers pushed down into the Galwan river. “China never believes in rules or rule-based commitment,” Lt. Gen. Syed Ata Hasnain, a retired military official who has served in the area, told me in an interview. “Their intent must be to exasperate us and keep this going longer. They chose not to use firearms which is a way they have largely followed at the LAC to project that they are not the ones triggering these exchanges.” He then added: “It’s going to take a very deliberate effort to restore relations.”

India’s singular focus on Pakistan and its patronage of terror groups has been justified. The nature of the conflict with Islamabad is of a different order — but we must not forget that Pakistan is effectively a vassal state of China today. China has stood up for Pakistan in the aftermath of the worst terrorist attacks in India and even blocked international sanctions against groups like the Jamaat-ud-Dawa.

The dissembling in Ladakh should teach us an unforgettable lesson: China looms as a great threat in many real and potentially devastating aspects for India. Pakistan may infiltrate India by sending armed terrorists into Kashmir, but China has infiltrated India by gaining a powerful role in the economy and markets. India’s trade deficit with China is $53 billion. This is China’s imperialism at work. No matter how protectionist it may sound, it’s suicidal to allow China to have unfettered access to Indian markets and consumers while it also builds roads and infrastructure through the parts of Kashmir occupied by Pakistan. Talk of “decoupling” the U.S. economy from China should resonate with Indians.

The otherwise high-pitched muscular nationalism of the right-wing Modi government has always been inexplicably mild-mannered when it comes to China. Last year, there was a huge push within the government for India to join the 15-nation multilateral Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, or RCEP. This would have effectively been a free-trade agreement with China, diminishing Indian manufacturers further and strengthening China’s imprint on all of India’s products. The coronavirus pandemic has been a reminder of the perils of this economic imbalance. India imports 70 percent of its bulk drugs from China; when Wuhan shut down, India’s antibiotics supply was dangerously vulnerable.

Modi has spent time cultivating a relationship with Chinese President Xi Jinping at multiple summits. It’s time for India to realize that this is a wasteful investment. “No doubt, earlier efforts at limited bonhomie through joint training between the two armies is now remote,” Hasnain, the retired general, told me. “And face-offs will no longer be just banner drills.”

While all-out combat may not be an immediate consequence of the deadly border clash, it’s clear India must reset the terms of its economic reliance on China.

If it doesn’t, the Chinese won’t just be assaulting India’s troops in the high mountain reaches; they will be right in our backyard.


Just shoot these MF's. Even if it escalates it will prevent further losing of territory inch by inch


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