India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 08 Sep 2020 21:32

For gober times, when do chinis start building new xi wall to scare Indians? Another way to scare Indians is for CCP to make a public example of Xi.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 08 Sep 2020 21:36

Vivasvat wrote:https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1200302.shtml
Outside forces are misreading China's desire for peace
By Hu Xijin Source: Global Times Published: 2020/9/8 22:18:40
People familiar with the frontline situation along the China-India border told me that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) has a firm control over the overall situation, and that in the event of a war, no matter how it is fought, the PLA will have the absolute certainty of defeating the Indian army. China will not lose an inch of territory along the China-India border. Chinese people can be rest assured.

Recent events have shown that China's overall deterrence has not been big enough to deter Indian troops from taking risks. The Indian side is still taking chances, misjudging and underestimating China's will to never compromise on the territorial issue. The Indian side always believes that China does not dare, will not or cannot go to war with the Indian side. Perhaps the fundamental reason is that China has not fought a war for more than 30 years and is committed to peaceful development. Some outside forces question our willingness to fight if necessary, arguing that we will compromise beyond the bottom line in order to ensure development.

Since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949, China's several foreign wars were all the result of the other side's miscalculation and underestimation of China's determination to fight. Before the 1962 war, India had no fear, encroaching on China's territory and challenging the PLA, and eventually India paid a heavy price. The situation today is very close to that before the outbreak of the 1962 war. As far as I know, the frontline situation is quite tense and there is a serious possibility of direct exchange of fire between the two sides.

I have close contact with the Chinese military and I am also a former soldier, I must warn the Indian side that the PLA does not fire the first shot, but if the Indian army fires the first shot at the PLA, the consequence must be the annihilation of the Indian army on the spot. If Indian troops dare to escalate the conflict, more Indian troops will be wiped out. The Indian army, which lost 20 soldiers in a physical clash (many of them froze to death after being injured in group fights), is no match for the PLA. Yes, we have some contempt for the combat capability of the Indian army.

China really wants peaceful development, so we haven't been a war with other countries for more than 30 years, and now we find that some outside forces are misreading China's desire for peace as weakness. Many Chinese are regretfully thinking that perhaps peaceful development is not the destiny of China as a great power, and probably fighting a war to demonstrate China's determination that it "dares to fight" is the price China has to pay. I want to warn New Delhi, it should be responsible for its actions, not to force China to demonstrate its strong will by striking provocative Indian troops who repeatedly crossed the LAC.

China's policy toward India is backed by strength and if ordinary people are not afraid of Indian provocateurs, how could the PLA be intimidated by them? How can the country be weak in dealing with India? Everyone must believe that China has an upper hand over India. We have all kinds of initiatives in our hands and we will not allow India to take advantage of China, no matter it is negotiation or fighting a war.

Poor Hu Xijin has severe speech defects - clearly because of his deranged brain.

nam · Post by **nam** » 08 Sep 2020 21:37

If we had moved in to areas around F4/F5, I don't think Chinis would have panicked so much. The capture of heights overlooking the Southern bank, is strategic in nature. This is the reason they went public so soon. Trying hard to paint us the aggressor. There is nothing strategic at F4.

Now they can "claim" they pushed us back, but our minute by minute commentary made sure that the claim will be destroyed in minutes. The Chinis population which is dependent on our media to get the details, will know it threadbare

So it is either war or go back voluntarily with a omelette on PLA's face. If war, then winter break for half of the PLA will be at 15000 ft, away from the luxury of east coast. They have to convince us not deploy in winter...

They have painted them in the corner. And our media war has been perfect.

nam · Post by **nam** » 08 Sep 2020 21:40

The chinis cannot openly accept they are in a corner. They are trying hard by threatening, to convince us to give a face saver and not deploy in winter.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 08 Sep 2020 21:42

‘If Ladakh Stalemate Continues, A Two Front Scenario Is Possible’

Vivasvat · Post by **Vivasvat** » 08 Sep 2020 21:44

nam wrote:The chinis cannot openly accept they are in a corner. They are trying hard by threatening, to convince us to give a face saver and not deploy in winter.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 998892.cms

Spokesman Zhao spoke about disengagement...

“You have a good wish. We all hope our troops get back to their camping area and there won't be any more confrontation in the border areas.
“You know that place has a very bad natural condition and it is above a height of 4,000 metres,” he added.
“In winter this is not good for humans to live. So we hope, through diplomatic and military channels and through consultations on the ground, we can achieve disengagement as soon as possible and reach consensus."

Denis · Post by **Denis** » 08 Sep 2020 21:49

rsingh wrote:If you watch News X , 3rd WW has already started. Do not pay attention to News X or TV9 etc

News X is the only channel that has Ladakh as focus and has some serious panelists like former diplomats and generals, people like Mr Ranade. It has a jingoist tone but the discussions are of the same calibre as we are having here on BRF.

All other channels have more pressing national duty to report on Rhea and SSR case. In fact Times Now anchor rudely cut a reporter talking of the CDS meeting and impending CCS meeting by saying that we have breaking news - Rhea may be attested as NCB is taking her to hospital for medical examination. For the next 20 minutes, all channels in India were only showing a car chase of NCB car taking Rhea to the hospital.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Sep 2020 21:57

Gobar times adds nothing of value. They are nothing more than a twitter troll. I am not sure what value they add to the table. Every editorial issues strong warning to someone or the other. Their editor is a twitter troll.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Sep 2020 22:23

Anujan wrote:Gobar times adds nothing of value. They are nothing more than a twitter troll. I am not sure what value they add to the table. Every editorial issues strong warning to someone or the other. Their editor is a twitter troll.

Yes. Let's keep Gobar Times out of this thread and put it in neutering thread instead.

Sonugn · Post by **Sonugn** » 08 Sep 2020 22:30

Does anyone know what are these "millitia" that are being talked about? The pics (of the Chinese) are said to be from some millitia & not regular army units.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 08 Sep 2020 22:36

Sonugn wrote:Does anyone know what are these "millitia" that are being talked about? The pics (of the Chinese) are said to be from some millitia & not regular army units.

Whatever
They are chinese and not friendly

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 08 Sep 2020 22:43

abhik wrote:Any significance of the red and white patches at the back side of the helmets?

[/quote]

Perhaps the red and white symbols are recognition symbols? In intense hand-to-hand combat the Young Emperors would likely get confused and start hacking each other and this will allow them to distinguish friend from foe.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Sep 2020 22:44

Ugh... Need to BENIS the hell out of these morons

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/AbhishekBhalla7/sta ... 0569206784
Chinese troops in Rezangla area where the current faceoff is happening. See the barbaric weapons #IndiaChinaFaceOff

Shakespear-in-the-Tso: "Doth mom know you wieldeth her curtain-rods?"

This Mall-Ninja battalion of Xitler Youth certainly looks scary

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Sep 2020 23:00

Deans ji,
My point was about "what the current stand off has cost China?" - its about whats happened so far. I'm not saying the cost to China is zero or insignificant. While I agree with you we have made India's response and intent clear with the measures taken already and have caused some hurt, they have not reached unacceptable levels in economic and military terms - so far. If they have to dig in all along the frontier from Depsang to Arunachal for the winter, then the costs will start getting hurtful.

If China were mindful of diplomatic and geo political costs, they would not have gone so far into the provocation. After Galwan losses, they would have backed off gradually in the weeks that ensued. China doesn't to subscribe to same concepts of H&D (honour and decency) like the rest of the world.

The cost of Xitler eliminating all who disagree or challenge him is that he is now in an echo chamber. He is informed of only what does not exact wrath and told only what he likes to hear. If the pinch of Indian retaliatory measures is being felt, its likely no one is telling Xitler about it or he is brushing it away and pushing ahead regardless.

India must notch it up to a level where it gets suddenly and sharply painful obliging Xitler to wince and take notice, look at the scale of the damage and back off. Half measures won't work. Just like a schoolyard bully won't back off with a pinch, you'll have to deliver a solid kick in the jewels, or finger punch an eye. Until then, he'll come at you again & again.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Sep 2020 23:03

Long handled weapons betray a fear of getting close and physical with the adversary.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 08 Sep 2020 23:04

What is that old saying - bringing a knife to a gunfight? Very strange tactics. It seems the intent is to kill a limited number of Indian troops as a face saver.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 08 Sep 2020 23:05

From NDTV and Lt Gen Panag, neither BRF's favourites, but the discussion focuses on military situation, some takeaways:
-> The kung fu blades might have been an attempt to trigger another Galwan and get a disengagement
-> Our defences in the new positions are still being set up (as these take time) - the Chinese will attacked before dig-in for good (he said it will happen with in 48 hours

)
-> Chinese counter attack will happen at Black Top, Rechin La and Mukhpari.
https://twitter.com/ndtv/status/1303329750782373889

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Sep 2020 23:09

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 08 Sep 2020 23:09

The post above beat me to it!

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 08 Sep 2020 23:13

amar_p wrote:Long handled weapons betray a fear of getting close and physical with the adversary.

Exactly, why they replaced their clubs and sticks spiked with nails with something so long that is probably unwieldy in a uneven terrain where its hard to get a foot hold and cramped in a melee like situation.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 08 Sep 2020 23:14

Our favourite Australian 20 year old is back with some recent hi rez sat images. For some reason none are publishing images of Black top itself (nothing interesting going on ?).
https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1303334336427556864

mody · Post by **mody** » 08 Sep 2020 23:15

https://youtu.be/ReuvGRfmQ88
Some good 3D views of the area in question and the heights that we have occupied.

By the way with regards to the news media, for a long time now, DD news is probably the best and provides the most relevant news. With reference to Ladakh they always have good experts on the show. Most will always toe the government line, but still aren't pompous show offs that are present on many other channels.

Tonight again thete was Lt. Gen Hasnain (Retd), along with some other former diplomat guy, who also made sense.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 08 Sep 2020 23:16

Vivek K wrote:What is that old saying - bringing a knife to a gunfight? Very strange tactics. It seems the intent is to kill a limited number of Indian troops as a face saver.

Don't wan't a gun fight, but seeing if the Indians take the bait for a melee once again.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 08 Sep 2020 23:19

As per Shiv Aroor the Chinese side's excuse (via the Brig. level talks) for carrying the stick knife thingee is about some martial tradition of the soldiers

. Though on a serious note they are probably provoke something to get the combat operations started.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Sep 2020 23:20

The Chinese forces now have an additional challenge: How to avoid tripping self or each other on these long branch trimmers as they trudge up and run down the slopes. Lets hope they've at least been half sensible and made the blades of plastic

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 08 Sep 2020 23:21

hnair wrote:Ugh... Need to BENIS the hell out of these morons

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/AbhishekBhalla7/sta ... 0569206784

Shakespear-in-the-Tso: "Doth mom know you wieldeth her curtain-rods?"

This Mall-Ninja battalion of Xitler Youth certainly looks scary

Hats off Saar.

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 08 Sep 2020 23:23

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egEL_9hNdZ8[/youtube]

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra claims that IA has landmined the route to the heights that is being currently occupied by them. This will ensure that the heights can be vacated during winters without the chinese moving in easily.

nam · Post by **nam** » 08 Sep 2020 23:25

There has been a CCS meet today, with no information being made public. I have a feeling there has been more than just "firing in the air".

The Chini WTC issued a comment in the middle of the night at 3, using GT. Pretty sure the Chinis attempted to capture some of the positions from us.

If only firing in the air, there was no need for CCS. The PM called for CCS, indicating something serious has happened.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Sep 2020 23:26

Please ignore the idiot Mitra. He is full of $#!+

chola · Post by **chola** » 08 Sep 2020 23:27

Vivek K wrote:What is that old saying - bringing a knife to a gunfight? Very strange tactics. It seems the intent is to kill a limited number of Indian troops as a face saver.

No, they were expecting us to adhere to no-shooting rules while they think are being clever by bringing these things from the Dark Ages. The IA wasn't going to fall for this kind of barbaric loophole and took warning shots which sent them crying to twitter with all these shots fired stories. Should have shot to maim if not just outright kill. Anyone carry that kind of chit should be put down like a wild animal.

With all kinds of modern weapons at their disposal, they resort to stuff from kung fu movies. lol. They really don't want things to go full kinetic. We should surprise them.

nam · Post by **nam** » 08 Sep 2020 23:28

SidSoma wrote: Abhijeet Iyer Mitra claims that IA has landmined the route to the heights that is being currently occupied by them. This will ensure that the heights can be vacated during winters without the chinese moving in easily.

Sorry, it is one of the most idiotic comment on a military issue. The Chinese are not an army of a remote pacific island, that they don't know how to de- mine a place. If it was this easy, we wouldn't have had Kargil.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 08 Sep 2020 23:30

is it possible to target these tops with their artillery?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Sep 2020 23:31

Would someone be very kind as to use their Photoshop skills to combine Wolf Warrior pictures with those sickle wielders, in the China Benis thread onlee ? The PLA would never publish those pics, but the Chinese forget we have (Chinese made) cameras to take pictures of the great wolfing warrior People's Liberation Army in their US Army copycat uniforms walk around carrying sickles - a sight that would surely gladden Chairman Mao's heart.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 08 Sep 2020 23:31

SidSoma wrote:

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra claims that IA has landmined the route to the heights that is being currently occupied by them. This will ensure that the heights can be vacated during winters without the chinese moving in easily.

you have to put whats after = only

eg

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 08 Sep 2020 23:34

V_Raman wrote:is it possible to target these tops with their artillery?

Yes hill top positions can be targeted but difficult, India did it in Kargil and have experience

the best option is direct fire but chinese dont have space for that in many spots

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 08 Sep 2020 23:43

Kakarat wrote:
V_Raman wrote:is it possible to target these tops with their artillery?
Yes hill top positions can be targeted but difficult, India did it in Kargil and have experience

the best option is direct fire but chinese dont have space for that in many spots

In1962 our arty could not crest the ridge line at rezang.la though thats not an issue with todays arty...the pla though is just 100 mts from our position on mukhpari ....

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 08 Sep 2020 23:48

Kakarat wrote:
SidSoma wrote:

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra claims that IA has landmined the route to the heights that is being currently occupied by them. This will ensure that the heights can be vacated during winters without the chinese moving in easily.
you have to put whats after = only

eg

Thanks Kind Sir

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 08 Sep 2020 23:51

I have a lawn mowing job to be done these guys can surely help are they listed on Alibaba

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 08 Sep 2020 23:57

I am still confused about the Chinese plans - if they want to vacate in winter - then why come in for few months and create this geo-political storm and be painted as an aggressor and bully. How can they show Indian army as inferior without ever defeating it in battlefield or wresting some thing away of some importance. And if they did want to humiliate India why not press on till their claim line wheil India was in-prepared and then call for cease-fire and go back like 1962. This current quagmire seems even more hare-brained than Musharraf's Kargil misadventure. Atleast in Kargil - Pakis posed a threat serious enough for India to go kinetic. Chinese on the other hand are like playing kabaddi raid.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Sep 2020 23:58

Sorry, their work ex is in a region where not a blade of grass grows