India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
sooraj
BRFite
Posts: 1447
Joined: 06 May 2011 15:45

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sooraj » 10 Sep 2020 15:54

@drapr007
·
1h
#BREAKING : Indian Armed Forces captured 14 dominating positions near Finger-4 and Finger-5 in Eastern Laddakh. We have not suffered any damage in this operation which lasted for 3 hours last evening.

God bless India. God bless Indian Armed Forces.

Larry Walker
BRFite
Posts: 319
Joined: 26 Nov 2019 17:33

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Larry Walker » 10 Sep 2020 16:10

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/13 ... 48834?s=19
Multiple 'readjustments' in last 48 hrs by Indian Army at LAC. Fresh 'readjustments' + strengthening of Aug 29-30 'readjustments' in Pangong north bank & Sub-Sector Chushul (south bank). Using the word 'readjustments' because that's the word the Army has used. #IndiaChinaFaceOff

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2658
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 10 Sep 2020 16:11

V_Raman wrote:I dont think India can use cluster bombs unless China uses it. Ground forces - yes anything goes. But air armaments - they will match China on heavy weapons IMO


Are we matching the Chinese on artillery? If they open up & we don't have matching armaments, we will have to bring in the IAF (or suffer losses). Hope we don't repeat the mistakes of Bandit Nehru regarding the employment of IAF. None of this Mahabharatha-style, proportional response BS. We have to play to our strengths

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24186
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 10 Sep 2020 16:12

Excellent news.

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 282
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Sep 2020 16:19

A bit of "re-adjustment" is perhaps also required in the Fukche ALG area , where G-219 is less that 60 km away as the crow flies.....

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 10 Sep 2020 16:38

^^
We will hear on that soon enough given what Shiv Aroor has hinted in one on his tweets that I had posted on the last page. He seemed to be suggesting re-adjustment in the Dumchule/Domcheck area.

What is heartening to hear is that GOI, once it made up its mind to counter the Chinese, it has gone about it in a systematic way and across the board step by step. I am not complaining!

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 10 Sep 2020 16:43

Another round of talks ... usless but necessary even if to make a show for trying peace ...

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/13 ... 8073470976
Next steps: First India China Corps Commander-level talks since the August 29 LAC actions set to take place any time in the next few days. Will be the 6th round of talks overall since June 6 between Lt Gen Harinder Singh & Maj Gen Lin Liu.

Anoop
BRFite
Posts: 451
Joined: 16 May 2002 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Anoop » 10 Sep 2020 16:44

Hari Nair wrote:A bit of "re-adjustment" is perhaps also required in the Fukche ALG area , where G-219 is less that 60 km away as the crow flies.....


Sir, what is your assessment of the viability of the Fukche airfield, given the Chinese radar station at Zhongcan? It seems that is a reason for the development of Nyoma airfield that seems to be shielded better. Also, if you look on GE, there's a large tower opposite Demchok that came up in 2012. Can't make out what it is, but it's attached to a complex that contains what looks like 2 helipads. Is that a radar tower as well?

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4923
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vijayk » 10 Sep 2020 16:56

pankajs wrote:^^
We will hear on that soon enough given what Shiv Aroor has hinted in one on his tweets that I had posted on the last page. He seemed to be suggesting re-adjustment in the Dumchule/Domcheck area.

What is heartening to hear is that GOI, once it made up its mind to counter the Chinese, it has gone about it in a systematic way and across the board step by step. I am not complaining!


You were before

I am glad to see you happy :D

mihir.mehta
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: 09 Sep 2020 11:11

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby mihir.mehta » 10 Sep 2020 16:58

pankajs wrote:^^
We will hear on that soon enough given what Shiv Aroor has hinted in one on his tweets that I had posted on the last page. He seemed to be suggesting re-adjustment in the Dumchule/Domcheck area.

What is heartening to hear is that GOI, once it made up its mind to counter the Chinese, it has gone about it in a systematic way and across the board step by step. I am not complaining!


This is my first post - Thanks Admin for adding me.
I just hope India has a clear strategic objective. Are we going to sit on some of these tops should the Chinese agree to go back. At the end of this all - where does India want to be. Do we have that clarity.

That whole strategic thinking is missing i believe. Everybody is talking about PLA's concern about their highway G219, we hardly hear anybody talking about giving depth to DSDBO road or the road along the Indus south of Pangong near Fukche-Demchog.

What do we do to ensure that (assuming this is sorted amicably) Chinese don't do this in the future. Their economic capability to bear the cost is enormous. We just don't have the financial muscle to be in a prolonged conflict.

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5212
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby jamwal » 10 Sep 2020 17:12

putnanja wrote:
Hari Nair wrote:There is an article in the Rag - The Print - worth a glance mainly for the fairly detailed map it provides.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsindia/why-indian-troops-secured-kailash-range-crestline-and-the-importance-of-chushul-bowl/ar-BB18T7FS?ocid=msedgntp#image=1
The map provides a good perspective of our dominance in the Chushul - Spanggur Gap area. Also lets us know the pictorially the reason for agitation of the Great Hans Army, now that we are literally raining on their parade in the lower valley.
The article is perhaps worth a skim read
- That village idiot editor Coupta wants to preach to the choir - "Big countries go to war with each other when they have a big strategic objective. They don’t do it to settle scores over something that happened 58 years ago".
So for Coupta, its just something that just "happened in the past".

Gen Panag appears to be rather amiss in his reading of history. He comments that China will try and do what they had done in 1962, which is take these heights one by one and clear Indian forces out of there.
I am actually amazed that this general officer who once commanded the area (Northern Command) does not know the basics of what happened there during the Battle of RezangLa.
Firstly - the heights being currently held by us were never held in '62.
Secondly - the 13 Kumaon (C Coy) that is just about one company strength were deployed in penny packets at far lower positions, which were overrun by perhaps a brigade strength of Chinese.
Thirdly - Our posts today are manned by far higher and appropriate numbers.
Fourthly - The heights being manned today - its definitely not going to be possible for the Chinese to "take these heights one-by-one" as if they were strolling in a garden picking cherries.

I am continuously amazed by Gen Panag's statements that appear to border on the other side of senility.


Sir, Gen Panag (retd) is politically biased. So he has grudgingly appreciated IA action while raising concerns which may not be realistic. I feel sad when even retired armed forces officers don't distinguish between praising armed forces & praising govt which they may not like. It's the same reason why other political commentators post anti-India comments because they are anti-govt( rape capital/women&children not safe etc). If they can't distinguish between govt in power and the country, it shows their intellectual capability.


He was planning to fight elections on AAP ticket. His daughter actually did. This should most of what you want to know

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 10 Sep 2020 17:16

vijayk wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
We will hear on that soon enough given what Shiv Aroor has hinted in one on his tweets that I had posted on the last page. He seemed to be suggesting re-adjustment in the Dumchule/Domcheck area.

What is heartening to hear is that GOI, once it made up its mind to counter the Chinese, it has gone about it in a systematic way and across the board step by step. I am not complaining!


You were before

I am glad to see you happy :D
Why this special attention?!!!

I just highlighted Shiv Aroor's post and re-interpreted his hint of action south of Rezang/Rechin La. That is hardly worth highlighting. I am always happy when GOI makes a move that IMHO advances India's position.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 892
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Sep 2020 17:21

jamwal wrote:
putnanja wrote:
Sir, Gen Panag (retd) is politically biased. So he has grudgingly appreciated IA action while raising concerns which may not be realistic. I feel sad when even retired armed forces officers don't distinguish between praising armed forces & praising govt which they may not like. It's the same reason why other political commentators post anti-India comments because they are anti-govt( rape capital/women&children not safe etc). If they can't distinguish between govt in power and the country, it shows their intellectual capability.


He was planning to fight elections on AAP ticket. His daughter actually did. This should most of what you want to know

How the did he get to the Lt Gen level??? Do you need to clear an interview or ???
OT to the thread sorry!! :D
Last edited by hnair on 10 Sep 2020 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Warning issued. BRF is not the forum to question a senior Indian Commander, based on his post-retirement political choices.

Denis
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 05 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: India

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Denis » 10 Sep 2020 17:24

News tickers reporting Namo and Abe held a 30 minutes telecon today after the signing of military logistics sharing agreement yesterday.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2658
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Sep 2020 17:28

https://www.rediff.com/news/interview/c ... 200910.htm
China has received a setback'
By ARCHANA MASIHLast updated on: September 10, 2020 15:41 IST

'India is not the India of 1962. We are not carrying that baggage of history anymore.'
"China has got a taste of 'India 2020' at Galwan and in the Chushul sector."

"They would look for an honourable exit policy, but at the same time, militarily they will want to continue certain probing actions against India so that they don't look subjugated," says Lieutenant General A B Shivane, PVSM, AVSM, VSM (retd), a second-generation army officer, who served the Indian Army for 40 years. General Shivane was director general mechanised forces and previously commanded the 50 Armoured Regiment during Operation Parakram. He has also served as GSO1 in the Srinagar-based XV Corps between 1997 and 1999 and was GOC of the oldest Strike Corps. The distinguished scholar-soldier has been part of many studies about the future planning, restructuring and rebalancing of the Indian Army.
General Shivane spoke to Rediff.com's Archana Masih about the recent strategic moves by the Indian Army that indicate a transition from a policy of reactive defensive strategy to a pre-emptive offensive against China. "We pre-empted and dislocated the Chinese from occupying certain heights and we have now the ability to disrupt them," says the general in the first of a two-part interview.
In view of how the situation in Ladakh has been building up after the Galwan clash three months ago, how do you read the confrontation that led to the exchange of fire on September 7, the first time since 1975?
We need to understand two things:
One, the Chinese intent. Second, the impact of the event of August 29-30 on the Chinese psyche.
The Chinese troops had to step back because they were repelled by the Indian Army and suffered a loss of face.
The Chinese geopolitical intent is based on a culture of expansionism and revisionism. If you classify that into ways, means and end, then the end is to stymie India's rise as a regional competitor. China is very conscious of India's global rise. China is also irked by the strategic bonhomie that is developing between India and the US. These two factors are heavily weighing in on China. Therefore, they are using coercive diplomacy as a tool, both in the economic and non-economic sphere.
They have created an economic dependency, particularly in the telecommunication sector. Militarily, they have kept the LAC alive by not wanting to settle the boundary dispute. The abrogation of Article 370 and India's claim to entire Ladakh has further rankled them. China played its Nepal card when the latter claimed the area close to the Pithoragarh district in Uttarakhand.
Subsequently, China started claiming territory in Bhutan near the Tawang sector. After that they indulged in hostage diplomacy by picking up five porters in Arunachal Pradesh. These are all means of China's coercive diplomacy, but India is not the India of 1962. We are not carrying that baggage of history anymore. History is a place of reference, not a place of residence. India has grown into a powerful and globally respected democracy, professing peace and growth with no extraterritorial ambitions, except what was rightly ours at the time of independence. Whereas China has grown into a powerful and coercive bully. It uses expansionism and revisionism as a tool.
....
Gautam

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 282
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Sep 2020 17:45

Anoop wrote:
Hari Nair wrote:A bit of "re-adjustment" is perhaps also required in the Fukche ALG area , where G-219 is less that 60 km away as the crow flies.....


Sir, what is your assessment of the viability of the Fukche airfield, given the Chinese radar station at Zhongcan? ....?


The Chinese have systematically gone about pushing their claim lines to negate the advantages of our ALGs in Ladakh - just check out their claim lines that have ensured that:
DBO, Chushul & Fukche all essentially fall within their small calibre mortar and light arty range. Their claim lines being pushed westwards in this sector in the proximity of these ALGs pushes us on the defensive.

Given the build-up of infra and good roads now, the need for ALGs in logistics have reduced. However, when push comes to shove, its always useful having ALGs which can take fixed wing aircraft.

Its high time we pay back in the same coin and "re-adjust" accordingly.

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3994
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 10 Sep 2020 17:46

Admin Note: This is an extra ordinary situation and some people still want to be in election mode. Denigrating a senior commander like General Panag’s professional competence or Indian Army’s leadership development ladder should not be used against his post-retirement political choices

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3046
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 10 Sep 2020 17:52

Dilbu wrote:Indian Army occupies more heights around Ladakh lake
New Delhi: The Indian Army has reportedly occupied heights on the north bank of Pangong Tso which overlook Chinese positions on the ridge lines in the Finger 4 area. This means that the Indian Army now has a tactical advantage on both the north and south banks of the Pangong Tso.

Mountain warfare is all about dominating the heights, and since they have come under the Indian Army’s control, there are reports that China has started building up its forces on the north bank of the Pangong Tso and is trying to come closer to the Indian position at Finger 4.

What has added to the tension is the fact that now all the action in the Pangong Tso area is being controlled directly by commanders in Beijing and it’s no longer in the hands of local PLA officers.

To put pressure on India, China had also brought forward its 15-20 tanks near Spanggur Gap, a mountain pass on the LAC, between China and India. India too has deployed its battle tanks.

In its Moldo garrison, China has now deployed 5,000-7,000 soldiers and India has a similar number in the area.


In the `Finger-4’ area, PLA troops will now have to deploy to an altitude of over 17,000-feet if they want to gain a tactical advantage over the Indian soldiers there. “The distance between the rival troops on the heights is just 100-200 meters, while it is around 2-km at the level of the lake,” said the official.

mihir.mehta
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: 09 Sep 2020 11:11

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby mihir.mehta » 10 Sep 2020 17:57

I like to think that we'll soon see the Chinese build a new road to Moldo skirting the eastern bank of Spangur Tso. Its not difficult to build such a road. That too would be visible from our positions on the ridge lines but out of range of small arms fire at least. Unlike Chushul (Which we can access via Pangong from the north and also from the west) Moldo can only by accessed by one road coming from south(Rutog??)

Another alternative for them is to build a road along the southern bank of Pangong(opposite F4 to Khurnak bank) but that too would be visible from our positions on the west bank on Pangong.

Any thoughts....

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 282
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Sep 2020 18:06

hnair wrote:Admin Note: This is an extra ordinary situation and some people still want to be in election mode. Denigrating a senior commander like General Panag’s professional competence or Indian Army’s leadership development ladder should not be used against his post-retirement political choices


At the risk of drifting off-topic :

I am afraid I need to stand by my statement made earlier.
If Gen Panag makes an analyses of the ongoing situation, then one obviously assumes given his earlier appointment as an Army Commander (Northern Command), he should be factual and objective.

His statements are neither.

Given that this is not the first time this gentleman has made such off-beat comments, it either means that he was not informed as an Army Commander or he has not cross -checked the facts of the '62 deployment.

I always respect senior retired officers. However there is a caveat - if post-retirement, they appear to go off-kilter and go at a tangent into an anti-establishment mode, then they deserved to be judged with the proverbial jaundiced eye.

Also, his political leanings are public. So, other forum members pointing these out are factually correct.

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3546
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby fanne » 10 Sep 2020 18:13

Thanks!! for bringing perspective and truth

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1343
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rishirishi » 10 Sep 2020 18:22

mihir.mehta wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
We will hear on that soon enough given what Shiv Aroor has hinted in one on his tweets that I had posted on the last page. He seemed to be suggesting re-adjustment in the Dumchule/Domcheck area.

What is heartening to hear is that GOI, once it made up its mind to counter the Chinese, it has gone about it in a systematic way and across the board step by step. I am not complaining!


This is my first post - Thanks Admin for adding me.
I just hope India has a clear strategic objective. Are we going to sit on some of these tops should the Chinese agree to go back. At the end of this all - where does India want to be. Do we have that clarity.

That whole strategic thinking is missing i believe. Everybody is talking about PLA's concern about their highway G219, we hardly hear anybody talking about giving depth to DSDBO road or the road along the Indus south of Pangong near Fukche-Demchog.

What do we do to ensure that (assuming this is sorted amicably) Chinese don't do this in the future. Their economic capability to bear the cost is enormous. We just don't have the financial muscle to be in a prolonged conflict.



Welcome Mehta :)


The mother of all questions for me has been "why did the Chinese pick the fight?", not only with India, but also rest of the world. just whey they are at odds with USA they choose this path. Against India, the fight seems to be over meaningless area, it is neither geopolitical important or have any economic value.

Here is my analyses. You need to keep 3 factors in mind.

CCP's main fear comes is internal rebellion. If that happens all the party people will be put into jail. CCP has some great problems, people do not like being watched, they expect fast economic growth and they expect more welfare schemes. The PLA's veterans are demanding better treatment. Officers form the PLA have to depend on the local government for pension. There is no central scheme.

When they have picked a fight with the USA, they know they are going to loose out, because very few countries apart from North Korea would be interested to join their camp. Even our beloved TSP would probably choose USA, because they will not want to alienete them self from the west. Most if not all influential Pakistanis have family and investments in the west. It is where they settle their families. Russia can be brought into the warmth by the west with a flick of a button. Broker peace with Ukraine and give Russia partially EU membership would do the trick.

So the CCP knows that they will loose, but need to retain power. A conflict with rest of the world, may help CCP internally to keep the country together. Secondly they may want to consilidate their position before they loose power.


To sum it up,
Both countries think this conflict can be stopped by either party, by making small consessions. It it not like the Kashmir or Taiwan conflict. China may have 2 objectives; 1) to settle territory claims when they still have some credible threat to make. 2) create external enemies to create domestic unity.

Only way for India to avoid war, is to have a credible defense and a military industry to back it up. Sorry to say, India has not done well in defense manufacturing. The complex purchase procedures and planning hurdles, has left India with gaps. I mention, BVR (before Rafael), AWACS, AIP for submaries and even rifles etc. Let us hope the new initiatives with involving the private sectors improves the situation.


Having said all this, the CCP cant really afford a conflict with India. Because there is a real possibility to loose thousands of soldiers (bad for their domestic image). Secondly they fear the transfer of advanced weapons from the west, which will make life horrible for them. They may loose the air dominance, in an area their soldiers are depending on a single road. It is a monumental task to supply the thousands of troops they have deployed. PLA have no battle experience and their soldiers may not be as battle hardened as the Indians. Fighting a war is a very complex operation. Having experienced officers and soldiers can make a HUGE difference.
Last edited by Rishirishi on 10 Sep 2020 18:32, edited 1 time in total.

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 282
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Sep 2020 18:30

mihir.mehta wrote:I like to think that we'll soon see the Chinese build a new road to Moldo skirting the eastern bank of Spangur Tso. Its not difficult to build such a road. ...
Another alternative for them is to build a road along the southern bank of Pangong(opposite F4 to Khurnak bank) but that too would be visible from our positions on the west bank on Pangong.

Any thoughts....


I believe their time for road building is over!
The Spanggur Gap is well and truly shut and Moldo garrison is compromised, new road or no new road.
Their highway to Leh has been sealed.
Its their move now - if they have any left in this sector, without going up the escalation ladder.

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3994
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 10 Sep 2020 18:43

Hari Nair wrote:Also, his political leanings are public. So, other forum members pointing these out are factually correct.


Not on this thread, dear sir! I have given a warning to a poster who has nothing to contribute other than pointing out Gen Panag's political choices post-retirement as a one-liner. We already know his political leanings and has questioned his politics before in other relevant threads.

Please continue to tear Gen Panag's articles and statements on its merits, as you are doing. But internal politics of India is India's internal matter and should remain that way in this situation too.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24186
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 10 Sep 2020 18:55

Welcome Mihir Mehta, that was quick, as soon as activated :D

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 282
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Sep 2020 19:21

The fundamental reason why I am so taken aback and irritated with Gen Panag's 'analysis':
The lapses in '62 deployment were studied in detail and are well known within professional circles, in the context of Chushul.

I urge forum members to go through the excellent analysis by Gen Thapliyal in USI Journal Apr-Jun 2005.

Its a must read since we are witnessing the activation of the very same sector.

Link as under:
https://usiofindia.org/publication/usi-journal/battle-of-eastern-ladakh-1962-sino-indian-conflict-2/#:~:text=Major%20General%20SV%20Thapliyal%2C%20SM%20(Retd),-Introduction&text=Sino%2DIndian%20conflict%20of%201962,South%20East%20(Map%201).&text=In%20Chushul%20Sector%20also%2C%20the%20Chinese%20aim%20remained%20the%20same.

Deans
BRFite
Posts: 1359
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Deans » 10 Sep 2020 19:34

Rsatchi wrote:
jamwal wrote:
He was planning to fight elections on AAP ticket. His daughter actually did. This should most of what you want to know

How the did he get to the Lt Gen level??? Do you need to clear an interview or ???
OT to the thread sorry!! :D


I believe after retirement his views have been biased due to his daughter's political affiliations and the general tone of his posts has been anti govt. That said, he did some good work as a general in Northern command, including getting mechanised forces to operate for the first time
in places like DBO - some jugaad done to vehicles that the Soviet designers did not think possible. When it comes to things like describing the area of operations his is a useful source of info.
Last edited by Deans on 10 Sep 2020 19:43, edited 2 times in total.

Jay
BRFite
Posts: 294
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Jay » 10 Sep 2020 19:37

clear strategic objective. Are we going to sit on some of these tops should the Chinese agree to go back. At the end of this all - where does India want to be. Do we have that clarity.


The one clear strategic objective for us is to deny China its constant expansionist policy, and at the same time realign ourselves from our constant reactive/defensive posture which was letting the Chinese to play this same game every few years.

That whole strategic thinking is missing i believe.

It's "appears" to be missing because we did not pick this fight and traditionally we were OK with settling the issue with Chinese. What was China's strategic objective when it started this chain of events is unclear, at least to me.

What do we do to ensure that (assuming this is sorted amicably) Chinese don't do this in the future.

Exactly what we have been doing in the past 5-7 days. Gain tactical advantage and show intent that we are not afraid of a fight to defend our position and objective.

Their economic capability to bear the cost is enormous. We just don't have the financial muscle to be in a prolonged conflict.

We just have to find a way to bear it. There is no other way around.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4923
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vijayk » 10 Sep 2020 19:39

pankajs wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L81-aywdbEw
'Xi Jinping Is Risking Everything For Success In Ladakh'



According to this, Xi started planning this in 2018 while holding conclaves with Modi.

It was activated and started moving the pieces when Corona crisis started in China (is it in late 2019 or Feb-Mar 2020).

So they kind of planned this assuming that Corona will spread to India by June when the incident happened.

I wonder if they planned moves based on how virus will spread in India and US.

I hope they are made to pay trillions in damages to the whole world for their sins.

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 386
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Bharadwaj » 10 Sep 2020 19:43

^^^^^
Nothing that the Chinese are doing makes any sense. Maybe the sun tzu manual runs out when faced with the robust response from the current GOI. Even the noise about eleven's local troubles do not support this situation.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4891
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chola » 10 Sep 2020 19:46

sooraj wrote:@drapr007
·
1h
#BREAKING : Indian Armed Forces captured 14 dominating positions near Finger-4 and Finger-5 in Eastern Laddakh. We have not suffered any damage in this operation which lasted for 3 hours last evening.

God bless India. God bless Indian Armed Forces.


So we did this right after their braying about us firing the first shots and that we'll be "velly solly" if we continue? Lol

Still no move from them as far I could tell. We are daring them to go kinetic!

KL Dubey
BRFite
Posts: 1016
Joined: 16 Dec 2016 22:34

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KL Dubey » 10 Sep 2020 19:47

AdityaM wrote:dont know what/who to trust anymore

https://twitter.com/Arunima24/status/13 ... 78081?s=20
1500-2000 PLA soldiers with their artillery guns have perched themselves on ridges of finger3. India has also matched numbers in terms of troop deployment. Only 300 m aerial distance seperates the 2 sides. Situation tensed but commander level talks hv prevented escalation:sources


Finger 3? and someone is claiming we have reached over finger 4?


Trust only the official (MOD/IA/PMO) sources and understand a certain level of ambiguity that is needed.

Find 'finger 3' on your hand and give it to any other speculations or sources. This is not a spectator sport for us to watch blow-by-blow, it is serious business.

During Galwan I got misled by the likes of Ruser, Gokhale, Abhijit et al posting and anal-yzing random satellite images. I don't give them any importance now. Things change rapidly on the ground and we are not necessarily supposed to know all the details.

Ankit Desai
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 05 May 2006 21:28
Location: Gujarat

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Ankit Desai » 10 Sep 2020 19:52

Indian Army occupies heights overlooking the Chinese Army positions at Finger 4 along Pangong Tso lake

Indian Army has occupied heights overlooking the Chinese Army positions at Finger 4 along the Pangong Tso lake, according to sources. Meanwhile, foreign minister S Jaishankar will meet his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi shortly. The MEA has confirmed that India will take up the issue of the current situation in eastern Ladakh with Wang Yi during the meeting.


-Ankit

Denis
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 05 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: India

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Denis » 10 Sep 2020 20:07

mihir.mehta wrote:Another alternative for them is to build a road along the southern bank of Pangong(opposite F4 to Khurnak bank) but that too would be visible from our positions on the west bank on Pangong.

Any thoughts....


This may not be allowed by IA. After we took the heights on Southern bank, our forced defended the lake banks opposite F4. This is because the area opposite F4 on the southern bank is the only area in vicinity on the sothern shore where there is a small beach head which can be utilised for moving men and materials by boat by the Chinese. After we did the readjustments on this side, the Chinese next day attempted to go at the heights from this side but were beaten back.

By the way, all this info is from open source and there was a good discussion on this by ex IA commanders on one of the channels.

Larry Walker
BRFite
Posts: 319
Joined: 26 Nov 2019 17:33

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Larry Walker » 10 Sep 2020 20:12

ANİ also confirms the same on their twitter - now the question is whether IA will push PLA ba k all the way to F8

Raveen
BRFite
Posts: 835
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 00:51
Location: 1/2 way between the gutter and the stars
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Raveen » 10 Sep 2020 20:15

hnair wrote:Admin Note: This is an extra ordinary situation and some people still want to be in election mode. Denigrating a senior commander like General Panag’s professional competence or Indian Army’s leadership development ladder should not be used against his post-retirement political choices


His and his daughter's political choices seem to dictate or color their assessment - if they can't detangle the two, then how can we?

Edit: apparently discussed previously so I'll stop here for now but the assessment is not objective at all
Last edited by hnair on 10 Sep 2020 20:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Warning issued

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8933
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Mort Walker » 10 Sep 2020 20:21

Looking at GE, it appears the IA has been on or near the ridgeline to F-4 for sometime. If the PLA screams about recent movements, then it is a positive sign.

Ankit Desai
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 05 May 2006 21:28
Location: Gujarat

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Ankit Desai » 10 Sep 2020 20:22

Not sure how much old and from which location !

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1304058085204357120

-Ankit

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 10 Sep 2020 20:23

Larry Walker wrote:ANİ also confirms the same on their twitter - now the question is whether IA will push PLA ba k all the way to F8

Once one occupies and secure the tops one doe not strictly need to push the ones down below back.

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 282
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Sep 2020 20:37

deleted - posted again with additional points
Last edited by Hari Nair on 10 Sep 2020 20:45, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests