India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rsingh » 22 Sep 2020 22:17

^^^^^
Conscripts Saar. 2 or 3 years of compulsry service. Seen it in CCCP.

Added later
There is an article in The Newyork Times with headline "Beijing faces rising anger in Europe". True to its reputation it avoided mentioning word "India". Half page article and no mentiong of Ladakh.
Last edited by rsingh on 22 Sep 2020 22:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby manjgu » 22 Sep 2020 22:30

abhik wrote:

This is just trolling/Pys ops, the original video is something completely different, allegedly soldiers crying harder than rudalies because they are about to retire from the PLA. The clip is now being used with a different headline to troll the chicomms - which is all good and fun, but I hope we don't start believing the BS that we ourselves came up with.


abhik... i agree that this vid is not necessarily crying due to going to Ladhak border... but its not abt retirement as well. more about being separated from parents etc or being forced to appear patriotic or overcome by emotions while singing some song. but the single child is a problem for PLA in 2020... and this is why all the bluff bluster... fake vids... to win without fighting a war !!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chola » 22 Sep 2020 22:55

This is real and Cheen itself is scared stiff of the consequences. Let's see if this crop of spoiled limp-wristed little emperors will charge up a hill? lol


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/china-tackles-masculinity-crisis-tries-stop-effeminate-boys-n703461

China Tackles 'Masculinity Crisis,' Tries to Stop 'Effeminate' Boys

Jan. 9, 2017, 5:02 AM EST / Updated Jan. 9, 2017, 5:02 AM EST
By Eric Baculinao
BEIJING — With enormous economic clout and a powerful military and a strongman president, the image that China projects to the outside world is one of strength and confidence.

At home, however, some believe the nation’s over-protected young boys are becoming physically and emotionally weak — leaving China facing what is being called a "crisis of masculinity."

...

A new school textbook that aims to teach boys how to be "masculine" men has been released. Called "Little Men," the book covers the differences between boys and girls, the importance of the father-son relationship as well as the importance of interacting with nature and managing money.

The colorfully illustrated book was first published in December 2016 by Shanghai Educational Publishing House and has been approved for fourth and fifth grade classes across the country, after a trial period in selected schools.

“This course is necessary for boys,” Miao Li, 36, a businessman, told NBC News while waiting to pick up his daughter recently outside a Beijing primary school. “They are so over-protected by the family they don’t do physical activities anymore.”

“Nowadays, girls are becoming more like boys while the boys are becoming more like girls, introvert and shy,” echoed another parent called Huang, a hotel employee.

“The boys are now less masculine than when I was of their age,” said a retired worker named Tian, a grandfather to an 8-year-old boy.

...

The roots of China’s masculinity crisis can be traced to a number of areas, one of which is the country’s One Child policy, implemented between 1979 and 2015. The policy restricted the number of children families were allowed to have in order to curb the country’s surging population growth. It was replaced with a two-child limit last year.

“The problem is that the family spoils the kid with love and care,” said a hotel management worker surnamed Sheng, mother of a first-grader, suggesting that over-indulgence and parents’ fear of losing their only child has stunted the natural adventurous character of boys.

Discussion about this effect of the One Child policy has been rife in China for years. Commentators have long lamented social phenomena such as so-called “Little Emperor Syndrome” or “Prince Syndrome,” where a life of pampering and constant praise led many Chinese only-children to develop poor social skills and become egocentric and over-reliant on their parents.

...
Chinese media has portrayed the “lack of manhood not only as a public menace and a threat to the family, but also as a metaphor for passive masculinity and national crisis,” she wrote. Distinctive gender roles and strong manhood were considered “crucial in safeguarding the security of the nation,” she noted.
...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby manjgu » 22 Sep 2020 23:30

rsingh wrote:^^^^^
Conscripts Saar. 2 or 3 years of compulsry service. Seen it in CCCP.

Added later
There is an article in The Newyork Times with headline "Beijing faces rising anger in Europe". True to its reputation it avoided mentioning word "India". Half page article and no mentiong of Ladakh.



U didnt catch the irony on my post ....

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 22 Sep 2020 23:34

suryag wrote:what do they discuss over 12 hr sessions and that too having about 8-10 iterations of these sessions. Isnt it clear, you vacate or not vacate, we vacate or do not vacate, heck even if they want to discuss the map in detail it wont take so many of these long sessions, in a sense this tires out the Corps leadership as they have to debrief with Delhi once the discussion is over.

You are right, dragging it out and exhausting the adversary till they just accept "something" is a common negotiating tactic.

the right response is probably "mom's brinjal-bargaining tactic": "ok no problem I am going, you please sell to someone who is willing to pay your price."

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 22 Sep 2020 23:42

Time is on India's side.

No need to worry about any ridge lines we occupied since according to GoI they are all on our side of the LAC onlee, just don't bother about silly details like where "our LAC" actually is ;)

The Chinese disposition will change in a month from now when winter settles in and PLA soldiers's bearings start chiming when they try to walk outside their heated accommodations.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 22 Sep 2020 23:45

suryag wrote:BajKhedalwaji - amazing take on this tzutiyapanthi - will rephrase

Sun Tzutiyapanti is a treatise towards cloaking Cowardice arising out of weak body, mind, and soul. Every single couplet reeks of desperation borne out of diminutive timidness of that ethnicity. "The great wall" is a testament of the very same cowardice, built high and long to keep the big bad blood-drinking mongols and vodka-drinking cossaks out. This wall of shame is even visible from space least the universe forgets where wimps live.

according to wikipedia there is much doubt about (a) existence of a guy named sun tzu and (b) whether he actually had a military career.

It might just be mental effluvium of some decadent aristocrat who never did his own fighting but relied on servants to protect him.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 22 Sep 2020 23:49

This is the Joint Statement released today:
Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rsatchi » 23 Sep 2020 00:04

https://theprint.in/defence/india-china ... gs/508519/
The headline says no increase in troops numbers in the frontline!!
Is this Panda's ways to build-up for some action at later date or in an another place??
Seeing videos of cry-babies and build of testosterone in men!! is this a way to save face.
I hope we have not again let them pull wool over our eyes!!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RaviB » 23 Sep 2020 00:06

One important factor affecting Chinese military response might be that September is when the 2nd year conscripts are demobilized. Training for new conscripts begins in August and goes till December. From September to December, many units are at 70% of their strength. Right now demobilisation will probably be delayed, which might affect morale.

https://warontherocks.com/2020/07/peopl ... d-matters/
From the early 1990s, PLA recruitment began in November with basic training starting in December and lasting for about three months, with 40 percent of training time dedicated to political and ideological training and 60 percent to military subjects. Traditionally, induction training was not conducted at specialized training bases, but rather at many division, brigade, and regiment-level unit garrisons. It was led not by professional trainers, but by a contingent of officers and NCOs detailed from the parent unit. This system left the parent unit lacking half its conscripts (after privates first class were demobilized) as well as many important small-unit leaders during the winter months. For units that rely heavily on conscripts, such as infantry, artillery, engineer, communications, and logistics units, this resulted in personnel strength at roughly 70 percent or lower than authorized levels for an extended period of time, adversely impacting training effectiveness. To offset the disruption caused by the conscript induction cycle, NCOs often serve in the same company for 12 years or longer and officers routinely stay in the same command assignment for three years or more.

In 2013 the period of recruitment and conscription was shifted to August, with new soldiers traveling to induction training in September.
...
This January the PLA announced it would adjust the conscription and demobilization schedule from once to twice a year (with induction occurring in March and September). However, the outbreak of the novel coronavirus postponed initial implementation of the new system, effectively delaying this experiment until at least 2021. When implemented, two recruitment and demobilization cycles per year, could even out personnel strength at higher levels in conscript-heavy units. This would increase unit cohesion and readiness.

...
Furthermore, unlike their counterparts in other militaries, as long as the traditional once-a-year conscription cycle is in effect, conscript-heavy squads, weapons crews, platoons, and companies will undergo large fluctuations in strength twice a year. In September, 40 to 50 percent of their conscripts are demobilized, and six months later, a new batch of privates enters the unit. In essence, small unit leaders must build unit proficiency and cohesion with two different sets of personnel each year, then repeat the same process every year.




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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Pashupatastra » 23 Sep 2020 00:17

Hopefully MEA guys will not lull the leadership into false sense of situation getting resolved. The solution to the problem of border settlement with China demands a spanking of PLA by Indian forces

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 23 Sep 2020 00:36

This is a base along G219 north of Karakoram pass, any idea about what these parked green boxes are? My first thoughts are large MLRS/BM TELS, about the right size, though surprised by the number and placement (maybe they were strutting their stuff).
https://zoom.earth/#view=36.346639,78.0 ... ayers=esri (choose Aug-2019 image)

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 23 Sep 2020 00:41

China doubles air bases, air defence positions and heliports near LAC after 2017 Doklam standoff: Stratfor
NEW DELHI: China has started construction of at least 13 entirely new military positions including three air bases, five permanent air defence positions and five heliports near the Line of Actual Control(LAC) in the aftermath of the Doklam standoff in 2017 according to a report by global security consultancy Stratfor.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 23 Sep 2020 00:48

Why India is still demanding status quo ante as of April is a question worth asking. Is it because there were some other unfavorable readjustments in other sectors?
India tells China to move back to positions before April-May timeframe in eastern Ladakh
The sources further said that during the sixth Corps Commander level talks, China asked India to vacate the positions taken over by it on the south bank of Pangong Tso after August 29.

India insisted that China should move back to the positions which existed before April-May 2020 timeframe in the Eastern Ladakh sector, the sources added.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 23 Sep 2020 00:52

Rsatchi wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/india-china-say-wont-send-more-troops-to-ladakh-frontlines-agree-to-avoid-misunderstandings/508519/
The headline says no increase in troops numbers in the frontline!!
Is this Panda's ways to build-up for some action at later date or in an another place??
Seeing videos of cry-babies and build of testosterone in men!! is this a way to save face.
I hope we have not again let them pull wool over our eyes!!

They just added and estimated 10K or more troops in the last one month (not known if and how many we have added). I don't know why we had to agree to these concessions, it only weakness our position.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RaviB » 23 Sep 2020 00:57

PLA demobilises 2nd year conscripts in September, so a reduction in personnel might just mean those going home. If it happens of course, they could make a virtue out of a necessity.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby samirdiw » 23 Sep 2020 00:57

RajaRudra wrote:If a short border war, then Aksai Chin is fair play.

In a proper full scale war, then china should no more be having any border with India. Tibet should be independent with the region near Manasarover fully under India.

And if war is forced on us when we not fully prepared, even then, our war, should not be for changing the political structure in china, should at least aim for stalemate with some little gains.


Perfect! Short and simple and with a vision to change the future.

Would ideally like everything on this side of G219/G318 so that we are fully entrenched in the plateau and not disadvantaged in future irrespective of the Tibetians mood. In reality, Historical Tibet is too big to be independent on its own without needing constant support from India. Only a Historical Tibet with 1/3 divided equally between India/China/ Tibet or 50% Independent Tibet and other 50% India/China will be sustainable. 1/3 or 50% of Historical Tibet will be more than what the Tibetians can defend and enough space for a independent country. India cannot go all the way over the other side to defend against the Chinese and Chinese will not put up with a hostile force so close to its mainland. They wont put up for long what we have put up for 70 years.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 23 Sep 2020 00:58

Click on the link for the video.
https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 4665688064
#China releases a video of its Z-10A performing live fire drills in an area suspected to be North of Aksai Chin

Location as per above: https://www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2 ... 78.0484167

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 23 Sep 2020 01:55

abhik wrote:

This is just trolling/Pys ops, the original video is something completely different, allegedly soldiers crying harder than rudalies because they are about to retire from the PLA. The clip is now being used with a different headline to troll the chicomms - which is all good and fun, but I hope we don't start believing the BS that we ourselves came up with.

Agree .. we are too quick to jump to judgement. We should be resolute and confident of our capabilities but no need to disparage the Chinese capabilities based on some twitter comment/video.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby g.sarkar » 23 Sep 2020 02:53

abhik wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/india-china-say-wont-send-more-troops-to-ladakh-frontlines-agree-to-avoid-misunderstandings/508519/
The headline says no increase in troops numbers in the frontline!!
Is this Panda's ways to build-up for some action at later date or in an another place??
Seeing videos of cry-babies and build of testosterone in men!! is this a way to save face.
I hope we have not again let them pull wool over our eyes!!

They just added and estimated 10K or more troops in the last one month (not known if and how many we have added). I don't know why we had to agree to these concessions, it only weakness our position.

Since China can not and will not abide by agreements, practically it means that the number of Indian troops will not be increased any more.
Gautam

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby samirdiw » 23 Sep 2020 04:03

RM has already said what Chinese say and do are different. In that case why dont we just have the principle of saying "No" to anything the Chinese ask and see where they will go. Winter is anyways setting in. By now we would have figured out that any proposal from their side is only to improve things for them. The current proposal only ties us down and removes one worry for them (India will attack Tibet even though we know thats not going to happen).

It might be that the MEA feels pressurized that a talk must end in a give and take?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 23 Sep 2020 08:14

abhik wrote:This is just trolling/Pys ops, the original video is something completely different, allegedly soldiers crying harder than rudalies because they are about to retire from the PLA. The clip is now being used with a different headline to troll the chicomms - which is all good and fun, but I hope we don't start believing the BS that we ourselves came up with.
I welcome such psyops.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rpartha » 23 Sep 2020 10:25

^^ there is a general hatred towards Chinese nowadays throughout the world... even clips that may be from North Korea are getting passed as Chinese - even in US. So given the objective everything is fair and square. But I agree - we should not let our guard down based on these clips..

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rpartha » 23 Sep 2020 10:35

samirdiw wrote:RM has already said what Chinese say and do are different. In that case why dont we just have the principle of saying "No" to anything the Chinese ask and see where they will go. Winter is anyways setting in. By now we would have figured out that any proposal from their side is only to improve things for them. The current proposal only ties us down and removes one worry for them (India will attack Tibet even though we know thats not going to happen).

It might be that the MEA feels pressurized that a talk must end in a give and take?


I feel strategically GB is more important than what's going in the eastern front. We will need access to central Asia... not just India even western countries would want that as Pakis is pretty much in China control and land locked Afghanistan cant help much and sooner or later will come under China Pak control. Russians will not help - they will make sure they get a piece of the pie. Iran will not help. So it is in the best interest of US and western countries to support India in GB... any suggestions folks?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rpartha » 23 Sep 2020 10:40

Following up, in fact I am thinking China is not going to revert back to April even if there are mutual concessions and they will keep their troops near the border so as to prevent India from attacking GB... or atleast to increase the risk high for India... and even Depsang is about that...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ManuJ » 23 Sep 2020 11:39

Very disappointed with India's continued deference and pussyfooting towards the Chinese.

China brazenly disregards India's claim line, treats it with total disdain, and occupies territory right up to its own claim line. India on the other hands starts celebrating if it occupies peaks on its own side!

India doesn't dare occupy Blacktop because it lies 1km within Chinese claim line, forgetting the fact that it lies 15km inside its own claim line.

Helmet Top, overlooking its defenses on South Pangong Tso and Chushul area, lies 30 kms inside India's claim line, right on China's claim line, and yet India lets China occupy it, consoling itself with the fact that it has at last occupied the other uncontested peaks that lie clearly on Indian side but that it had inexplicably left unoccupied the last 50 years.

In this entire conflict, has India dared to occupy a single inch of land that is on the other side of the Chinese claim line? Think not.

What India has done is that it has further sanctified the LAC and the Chinese claim line.

What quid pro quo does India expect from China - hey, if you stop occupying our land, we'll also stop occupying our own land??? The Chinese must be laughing their heads off.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 23 Sep 2020 12:27

Lot of folks are batting for India taking back Aksai Chin or even marching into Lhasa. The GOI has always been clear that is objective is to hold the line @ LAC. For such folks it will obviously be disappointing.

https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/ ... 0221614081
Chinese should be careful; such videos reveal a lot.
- None of the Z-10 is carrying anti-tank missiles.
- Only 2 x rocket pods with <10 rockets each.
- Talk of Z-10 being underpowered are true?
- Pakistan supposedly opted for Turkish gunship over Z-10 because of this factor.
- Whatever be the case, the payload capacity of Z-10 in the rarefied atmosphere of Tibet plateau is for sure severely limited.
- It is likely to be able to carry only a fraction of capable payload.
- Not denying that it can/will be a threat. But lets not overstate it.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Sep 2020 12:30

abhik wrote:Click on the link for the video.
https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 4665688064
#China releases a video of its Z-10A performing live fire drills in an area suspected to be North of Aksai Chin

Location as per above: https://www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2 ... 78.0484167


Why does this video have the Soviet flag at around 1:58?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Raja » 23 Sep 2020 13:04

Just maybe, I don't know, the govt. has good reasons for it's actions (or seemingly, lack of it). You know they do have more information than the armchair strategists on here and they are also far more experienced.

On a civilizational scale, few decades are nothing. Yet some of you would rather endanger the entirety of Indian civilization because of skirmishes spanning a blip in this timescale. It's a marathon chess game and we have people wanting to play IPL.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RCase » 23 Sep 2020 13:05

Aditya_V wrote:


Why does this video have the Soviet flag at around 1:58?

Nice catch!
What is even funnier is how the 'Chinese' are saluting the Soviet flag!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby yensoy » 23 Sep 2020 14:17

Loudspeakers need to ask the soldiers whether their loyalty is to China, or the Chinese People, or to Communism, or to the CCP or to Uncle Xi himself.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby mihir.mehta » 23 Sep 2020 14:21

ManuJ wrote:Very disappointed with India's continued deference and pussyfooting towards the Chinese.

China brazenly disregards India's claim line, treats it with total disdain, and occupies territory right up to its own claim line. India on the other hands starts celebrating if it occupies peaks on its own side!

India doesn't dare occupy Blacktop because it lies 1km within Chinese claim line, forgetting the fact that it lies 15km inside its own claim line.

Helmet Top, overlooking its defenses on South Pangong Tso and Chushul area, lies 30 kms inside India's claim line, right on China's claim line, and yet India lets China occupy it, consoling itself with the fact that it has at last occupied the other uncontested peaks that lie clearly on Indian side but that it had inexplicably left unoccupied the last 50 years.

In this entire conflict, has India dared to occupy a single inch of land that is on the other side of the Chinese claim line? Think not.

What India has done is that it has further sanctified the LAC and the Chinese claim line.

What quid pro quo does India expect from China - hey, if you stop occupying our land, we'll also stop occupying our own land??? The Chinese must be laughing their heads off.


Thats the whole problem.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 23 Sep 2020 14:37

I've said,no retreat by the PRC on the frontline MUST see both eco and dpl. punishment.High level official contacts with Taipei essential, plus the Tibetan govt.-in-exile.Taipei to be allowed to immediately open/build a de-facto embassy.Can call it a cultural trade centre,whatever now. Tibetans,the same centres like our state "houses" in the capital,which have offices,meeting halls, accommodation,and would act like the Tibetan consulate in Delhi,later on its embassy.

Eco punishment ,further bans on selceted
goods and services.No PRC cell phones and eletronic items including white consumer goods,kitchen/ household items.
The GOI should also ban PRC investment,return any donations recd. from Chin. cos/ NGOs,and further restrictions ,bans on PRC nationals from entering India,toral ban on any of its merchant vessels entering our ports ,or any MV carrying goods from the PRC.In addition,a total ban on PRC fishing in our EEZ.Any fishing vessels found,seized or sunk!

The GOI/MEA should stop pussyfooting with the PRC.It's long past driving our stakes into the ground. I fully fndorse thf tough stand by our DM Rajnathji. The MEA must get mean and vicious too. We can't play it both ways with the duplicitous,diabolic,sh*tworms of the PRC and its fuhrer,Xitler.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 23 Sep 2020 14:50

If still nothing happens,no retreat,downgrading of ties just like treatment of Pak. Status of the dpl. rep.a mere Charge d' affaires.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 23 Sep 2020 15:46

RCase wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
Why does this video have the Soviet flag at around 1:58?

Nice catch!
What is even funnier is how the 'Chinese' are saluting the Soviet flag!

That's the flag of the CCP I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblem_of ... nist_Party

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Sep 2020 15:55

So they are saluting CCP and not PRC! Ah fighting for the party i.e Xitler and not for country.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rsatchi » 23 Sep 2020 16:19

Aditya_V wrote:So they are saluting CCP and not PRC! Ah fighting for the party i.e Xitler and not for country.

Sirji the thinking is similar to DKB crazy statement :India is Indira and Indira is India.
Xitler is chini and Panda is Xitler.
No wonder CCP has MOU with the Congi's :D

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Paul » 23 Sep 2020 16:22

The WolfpackRight-pointing magnifying glass
@TheWolfpackIN

Chinese are building a rail-road link from Shigatse to Yadong in Chumbi Valley of occupied Tibet to put pressure on Indian Siliguri corridor.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 23 Sep 2020 16:23

ManuJ wrote:In this entire conflict, has India dared to occupy a single inch of land that is on the other side of the Chinese claim line? Think not.

What India has done is that it has further sanctified the LAC and the Chinese claim line


Good points! Our position & expectations have been weakened to such an extent that laying claim to one's own areas is considered a victory.

1) In June, we were negotiating literally with a pleading tone, because we were caught unawares (like Kargil)
2) What 19 Bihar reminded us was our spine
3) SFF action put us in a better negotiating spot

But still, we are negotiating with them to vacate our own land. The Armed Forces have ensured that our new negotiating position is stronger, but the sought after solution from the Indian side still seems to be diplomatic. This plays into the enemy's hands because they can permanently stay where they are & our current position becomes the new status quo. Fingers 4 - 8 gone.

I don't think we are contemplating a military action to kick them out from all their ingressed areas. A good time to do it would be when the Chinese conscript rotation happens and they are not yet acclimatized.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby samirdiw » 23 Sep 2020 18:12

pankajs wrote:Lot of folks are batting for India taking back Aksai Chin or even marching into Lhasa. The GOI has always been clear that is objective is to hold the line @ LAC. For such folks it will obviously be disappointing.


Pankajji, You are right its good for the Govt to have objectives. All we are suggesting is that the objectives be in Tiers and not a close minded one such that even when a opportunity comes that we overlook it. To give a cricket parlance if a player is so focused only on singles they lose the opportunity to score a boundary of a loose ball (multiple problems for chinese on different fronts) or when a weak bowler comes along (conscript chinese) or pitch changes state (winter problems for them), although we know singles are important.

So intead of LAC only, have multiple Tiers of objectives
1. Tier 1: Inside LAC: e,g, Depsang PP out of access/Finger 4 current situation status quo
2. Tier 2: LAC
3. Tier 3: Few kms between LAC and Claim
4. Tier 4a: Claim - Aksai (or atleast upto Karakash river in Aksai)
5. Tier 4b: Half way upto G219/G318 in other Areas (Covers Kailash/Chumbi Valley etc)
6. Tier 6: G19/G318 (Crosses Yarlung Tsangpo)
7. Tier 7:Half of Utsang with Kunlun mountains on one side
8. Tier 8: Utsang including Lhasa
9. Tier 9: Kham
10. Tier 10: Amdo

The defense leaders / FM should be able to evaluate what it will take in terms of cost to each of the Tiers. The NSA can help with the opportunities or even creating them. The DM should be able to set the field.

Govt is saying Tier 1/2. Many here are suggesting Tier 3 at this point and prepare for 4a/4b. Hope this clarifies.


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