India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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KL Dubey
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KL Dubey » 29 Sep 2020 10:36

hnair wrote:
“Firstly, China-India border LAC is very clear, that is the LAC on November 7, 1959. China announced it in the 1950s, and the international community including India are also clear about it,” the ministry said on Friday.


SSridhar, indeed, we are in 2020 and yet the language is ridiculous, medieval and imperious "China announced clearly what Indian territory it wants. The world was informed. Why is India still talking?"


That may be the case, but the more practical question is: "China announced clearly what Indian territory it wants. The world was informed. So why after 61 years does China still not have most of this territory ?" The answer of course will involve the explanation that the PLA is an overrated paper tiger, the Indian armed forces are strong, and the PLA is unable to get this territory back.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Suraj » 29 Sep 2020 10:52

V_Raman wrote:So this is like Islam. They can talk all about other people. But you question them critically on Islam - they go quiet!!!

There’s quite a bit of overlap here actually . Both have concentric circles of entities, with the outer ring engaging the world and the inner rings being protected domestic citizenry who live in a heavily policed state. They accept it because the social contract where the state enriched them. But stepping out of line is severely self policed. In other words ‘political blasphemy’ and ‘apostasy’ are crimes of high magnitude. China goes so far as to refuse to recognize the foreign nationality of ethnic Chinese when it comes to alleged crimes in the mainland - they are ethnic Chinese so they are Chinese for the purpose of punishment.

Also, I would argue that the political apparatus of CPC has not evolved at all from Imperial China . It still looks at and treats the world the same way, and is as brittle to the impact of external pressure as the Qing Dynasty was - abs the west knows it too. Xi probably imagines he’s the Qianlong (Qing) or Yongle (Ming) Emperor - one of the pantheon of greatest Chinese emperors. Instead, he seems set to be remembered more like Empress Dowager Cixi, under whom the Qing dynasty started to unravel.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 29 Sep 2020 11:02

darshan wrote:Is there any reason to rush in RUDRAKSH, MALA, and OM to the border?


Mods, I must brotest. Bhwy are these beepuls giving away our istrategic secrets onlee?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 29 Sep 2020 11:37

If it is okay to post travel videos, I would like to post this video about travel through Tibet. The commentary is in Malayalam. Hnairgolis, Dileepettan or some other guru might be able to glean some useful info from the video. I am too unwashed to provide any comments.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Sep 2020 15:15

Cain Marko wrote:
Vips wrote:
In case the showdown does not happen within the next 3 years then the Chinese will be left ruing their chances(that is if they had the chance at all). With the critical Border roads construction finishing and the infrastructure loopholes being filled-in during the next 3 years, if they try anything fishy it will be Doklam redux as the chinese will find quick moving and certainly better equipped Indian forces will be more then a match for them across the entire length of the border.


I would go so far as to say that - if things don't happen in the next month or so, their chances just took a nosedive. Once winter sets in, India gets a respite and will use the time to make it very hard for when things open up again next summer. We can expect - more rafales, S400, Tejas, Nirbhay, ISR platforms, and God knows what kind of leased maal they will bring into play. Maybe lease a few more Rafale or M2K or Su30SM, IFR and ISR platforms from the Khan. Who knows. The Nirbhay, S400 and Rafale will have a dramatic impact on the equation.

Panditji, sorting out logistics for China will be difficult, if not impossible. Nature simply doesn't permit it. Logistics lines to be truly effective in wartime, need to be short and this is not possible with most of their population centers so far away from flashpoints.

I will take a conservative view on this..even if our capabilities rise...Their deployments will make it harder for us to take and hold terriotry. I am looking from the offensive perspective. Yes from defensive perspective our holes will be plugged. Right now chinese supply lines are all in air. As much as they speak, they dont have an actual large scale deployment experience. This deployment will give them experience. They will learn from it (assuming they are not paxis)

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Sep 2020 15:50

Dilbu wrote:If it is okay to post travel videos, I would like to post this video about travel through Tibet. The commentary is in Malayalam. Hnairgolis, Dileepettan or some other guru might be able to glean some useful info from the video. I am too unwashed to provide any comments.


Did these guys used G219- travel through Gosthana a.k.a Aksai CHin on thier way to London
Last edited by Aditya_V on 29 Sep 2020 16:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby LakshmanPST » 29 Sep 2020 15:53

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 11809?s=19
China does not recognize the so-called Union Territory of Ladakh illegally established by India, and opposes infrastructure construction in disputed border areas for military control purposes, FM spokesperson Wang Wenbin said in response to India building roads along the border.


Hehe...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 29 Sep 2020 16:13

As i mentioned earlier, the objective of the incursion was to stop us from building the infra. Better our roads, the more they have to guard the LAC.

We will continue bettering our roads and the Chinis will continue sreaming. This is perfect, as will keep the delusional GoI out of "peace and tranquility" nonsense. Take the threat seriously.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Sep 2020 16:47

If that was their intention then its like Hitler's decision on the Battle of Britain and the Blitz. You would need Nehru, Krishna Menon, Pappu types to surrender to it.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Bharadwaj » 29 Sep 2020 16:56

The louder the han screams, the more we know the pain is. All the Dar that certain interests were muttering about their diplomatic talk laying the road for war has fizzled out. They are desperate for face saving.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby darshan » 29 Sep 2020 17:26

Bharat essentially need to liberate parts of Bharat from han murderers. At the least parts that are pointed out by Professor Kak in the YouTube video. Time to start announcing all activities illegal in this territories.

https://youtu.be/CavlGNamhqU

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby samirdiw » 29 Sep 2020 17:33

China does not recognize the so-called Union Territory of Ladakh illegally established by India


If they claim entire Ladakh thats a new development isn't it?.What happened to the 1957 Chou En Lai lAC line then ?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 29 Sep 2020 18:43

What the heck is stopping India from saying that India does not accept Tibet as part of China?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 29 Sep 2020 18:49

Modi does not even acknowledge Taiwan's president's birthday wish for him on twitter and India will start taking China on Tibet?!!

In Indian diplomacy everything is slow and incremental. Tibet will be put on the table along with the rest but we will have to wait for a while. Right now India is focused on LAC (Ceasefire line) not even Aksai Chin.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 29 Sep 2020 19:07

Aditya_V wrote:
Dilbu wrote:If it is okay to post travel videos, I would like to post this video about travel through Tibet. The commentary is in Malayalam. Hnairgolis, Dileepettan or some other guru might be able to glean some useful info from the video. I am too unwashed to provide any comments.


Did these guys used G219- travel through Gosthana a.k.a Aksai CHin on thier way to London

Yes I think they were on G219 on their way to Ngari. They went to Kazakhstan via Tibet through a route usually not allowed for Indians. They were accompanied by a guide provided by Chinese govt at all times and even the distance to be traveled in a day was restricted and monitored. Only a few approved hotels are accessible to foreigners and Indians are subject to stricter rules regarding ease of movement. This was even before the 'situation' on LAC .

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 29 Sep 2020 19:09

pankajs wrote:Modi does not even acknowledge Taiwan's president's birthday wish for him on twitter and India will start taking China on Tibet?!!

In Indian diplomacy everything is slow and incremental. Tibet will be put on the table along with the rest but we will have to wait for a while. Right now India is focused on LAC (Ceasefire line) not even Aksai Chin.


If India can physically and militarily take on the Chinese on the Border what is going to stop India from taking on China on the Tibet declaration? What will China do or threaten to do which it is not already doing?

Oh yes it may start a Gandhian non violent Protest against India :lol:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Sep 2020 19:10

I think there next video is not out, but Pangong Lake/ Rutog county section to Kargilik would be interesting

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 29 Sep 2020 19:20

Vips wrote:
pankajs wrote:Modi does not even acknowledge Taiwan's president's birthday wish for him on twitter and India will start taking China on Tibet?!!

In Indian diplomacy everything is slow and incremental. Tibet will be put on the table along with the rest but we will have to wait for a while. Right now India is focused on LAC (Ceasefire line) not even Aksai Chin.


If India can physically and militarily take on the Chinese on the Border what is going to stop India from taking on China on the Tibet declaration? What will China do or threaten to do which it is not already doing?

Oh yes it may start a Gandhian non violent Protest against India :lol:

In India everything is incremental even the restriction on China were incremental. India taking on China on Tibet is a BIG jump. Not gonna happen. We are like that only.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Punjabi » 29 Sep 2020 20:13

pankajs wrote:
Vips wrote:
If India can physically and militarily take on the Chinese on the Border what is going to stop India from taking on China on the Tibet declaration? What will China do or threaten to do which it is not already doing?

Oh yes it may start a Gandhian non violent Protest against India :lol:

In India everything is incremental even the restriction on China were incremental. India taking on China on Tibet is a BIG jump. Not gonna happen. We are like that only.


Yeah, sad that we continue to be 'reactive' for most part...we let others create and run with the narratives they feel help them and we end up defending ourselves. Having left India in 1984, I am convinced this mindset is deeply embedded in our DNA (Hindu mindset in particular). Sorry, hate to paint it with religious brush but I see it hurting us at every level. I have personally pledged to speak out in every forum possible in NA and when I studied in UK. I got cold stares from our fellow Desis... for most part our kids born in NA/EU also don't care much except India is a place they go (or rather forced to go) to meet grandparents and relatives. Beyond that they parrot the same Gora and leftie-jihadis narrative. I have spent more time educating ABCDs on this but they are largely immune! God help us...InshaGanesha one day things will change!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 29 Sep 2020 20:24

KL Dubey wrote:
hnair wrote:
SSridhar, indeed, we are in 2020 and yet the language is ridiculous, medieval and imperious "China announced clearly what Indian territory it wants. The world was informed. Why is India still talking?"


That may be the case, but the more practical question is: "China announced clearly what Indian territory it wants. The world was informed. So why after 61 years does China still not have most of this territory ?" The answer of course will involve the explanation that the PLA is an overrated paper tiger, the Indian armed forces are strong, and the PLA is unable to get this territory back.


Please couch it in language their public can reforward without censorship eg: "If China clear to world in 1950, why Indian Army kill many Chinese soldiers now?"

(RaviB is good at translation)

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Sep 2020 21:44

Chinese View: India thinks it has got the better of China, so it can dare China - Prof. Liu Zhongyi, Indian Defence Review

Never had any admiration for Chinese diplomacy. The following is supposedly the reason given by a 'noted' intellectual in China on why China is unwilling either to resolve the border-dispute or even 'clarify the LAC'.

Excerpt
India has been putting China under pressure to force China to resolve border dispute, or at least determine the LAC, according to the wishes of India. India’s strategy is once the LAC is determined and the boundary with China is delineated, India can then concentrate dealing with Pakistan, concentrate its main focus and resources on the Indian Ocean, intercept China from the Indian Ocean and control China’s lifeline.


This interview is full of hilarious gems.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Raveen » 29 Sep 2020 22:21

Punjabi wrote:
pankajs wrote:In India everything is incremental even the restriction on China were incremental. India taking on China on Tibet is a BIG jump. Not gonna happen. We are like that only.


Yeah, sad that we continue to be 'reactive' for most part...we let others create and run with the narratives they feel help them and we end up defending ourselves. Having left India in 1984, I am convinced this mindset is deeply embedded in our DNA (Hindu mindset in particular). Sorry, hate to paint it with religious brush but I see it hurting us at every level. I have personally pledged to speak out in every forum possible in NA and when I studied in UK. I got cold stares from our fellow Desis... for most part our kids born in NA/EU also don't care much except India is a place they go (or rather forced to go) to meet grandparents and relatives. Beyond that they parrot the same Gora and leftie-jihadis narrative. I have spent more time educating ABCDs on this but they are largely immune! God help us...InshaGanesha one day things will change!


Prahji, no hope, the ABCDs are brainwashed like none other. I know Gujjus who oppose Modi even after he developed the state because of some $.02 comedian's Netflix special.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby darshan » 29 Sep 2020 22:27

Raveen wrote:Prahji, no hope, the ABCDs are brainwashed like none other. I know Gujjus who oppose Modi even after he developed the state because of some $.02 comedian's Netflix special.


Most of the ABCDs would not know anything about it. Irrespective of Gujjus. Actually that includes many of my ABCD friends and family members. The fault actually lies with parents and mandirs and not with ABCDs. For example, one of my ABCD friend was not taught any Indian language by his parents because they thought that it will make him dumber. The guy actually wanted to learn one and till this day laments not knowing Indian language to be able to teach his kids. Of course, his parents were brain washed in India to think that knowing English is everything.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vips » 29 Sep 2020 22:55

China criticises forthcoming Quad Ministers meet in Japan, calls it "exclusive clique"

:lol:

What made the Chinese spoksperson speak so many Oxymoronic words/terms in a single statement:

"Peace, Development, global cooperation", "Multilateral and plurilateral cooperation", "Open, Inclusive and Transparent", "Interests of regional countries", "Conducive to regional peace, stability and development"


Hah i see it is this:
"Efforts should be made to enhance regional countries mutual understanding and trust, instead of targeting a third party or harming third party's interests," he said.


Heh heh the lizard is shitting in his western suit thinking China in reality is unable to handle India alone, so what will happen to China if the Quads get and act together? :rotfl:

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vimal » 29 Sep 2020 23:00

Situation at Ladakh reminds me of Rajiv Gandhi’s famous cliché “Hum Dekh Rahen Hain, Hamen Dekhna Hoga, Hum Dekhenge”. Translated simply, it implies “we have been watching, we will have to watch, we will watch”. That in essence has been our foreign policy supported by an absent national security strategy kept in limbo and reinforced by an impotent defence industrial base.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 29 Sep 2020 23:40

darshan wrote:
Raveen wrote:Prahji, no hope, the ABCDs are brainwashed like none other. I know Gujjus who oppose Modi even after he developed the state because of some $.02 comedian's Netflix special.


Most of the ABCDs would not know anything about it. Irrespective of Gujjus. Actually that includes many of my ABCD friends and family members. The fault actually lies with parents and mandirs and not with ABCDs. For example, one of my ABCD friend was not taught any Indian language by his parents because they thought that it will make him dumber. The guy actually wanted to learn one and till this day laments not knowing Indian language to be able to teach his kids. Of course, his parents were brain washed in India to think that knowing English is everything.



Well I learnt devanagari as well as nastaliq scripts as an adult; I still regret that I had the opportunity to learn Gujarati in primary school but hid under the desk. Of course family had a fit when I enrolled in German classes. You mileage may vary.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby schinnas » 29 Sep 2020 23:41

SSridhar wrote:Excerpt
India has been putting China under pressure to force China to resolve border dispute, or at least determine the LAC, according to the wishes of India. India’s strategy is once the LAC is determined and the boundary with China is delineated, India can then concentrate dealing with Pakistan, concentrate its main focus and resources on the Indian Ocean, intercept China from the Indian Ocean and control China’s lifeline.


This interview is full of hilarious gems.


Actually the cat is out of the bag. While they always coveted Tibet due to Mao's 5 finger strategy and possibility of direct road connection to PoK thru Ladakh, it shows their two main concerns about India which could have triggered the timing of their actions.

1. That India would take back PoK and GB or otherwise dismember their Munna.

2. If border is demarcated and clear, India could focus on building naval power and choke China hard in Malacca straights if hostilities break out.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 30 Sep 2020 01:22


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Suraj » 30 Sep 2020 01:32

SSridhar wrote:Chinese View: India thinks it has got the better of China, so it can dare China - Prof. Liu Zhongyi, Indian Defence Review

This interview is full of hilarious gems.

SSridhar ji, beyond the article, could you please share more about the antecedents of this person ? Does he have prior articles he's known for in the context of Sino-Taiwanese relations, Sino-US or any other theater ? What organizations are he affiliated with ? From his mug, he's not particularly old - probably in his early 40s at best. The original article seems to be from guancha.cn, which is a Chinese news website.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 30 Sep 2020 02:16

The interview by the Chini professor is fully based on watching Indian english media reports... The complains about how China is not seen as a victim. India is underestimating us.. India pushing back is due to "hindu nationalism" etc..

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RaviB » 30 Sep 2020 02:50

Suraj wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Chinese View: India thinks it has got the better of China, so it can dare China - Prof. Liu Zhongyi, Indian Defence Review

This interview is full of hilarious gems.

SSridhar ji, beyond the article, could you please share more about the antecedents of this person ? Does he have prior articles he's known for in the context of Sino-Taiwanese relations, Sino-US or any other theater ? What organizations are he affiliated with ? From his mug, he's not particularly old - probably in his early 40s at best. The original article seems to be from guancha.cn, which is a Chinese news website.


Suraj ji, Liu Zongyi is based at the Shanghai Institute for International Studies, mid-level researcher, not a professor. He's done a short stint in India as well (and Pakistan). He's written several other articles on the China-India boundary, and in fact used to be less of a hawk during previous confrontations.

http://www.siis.org.cn/Research/Expert? ... pe=comment


Actually, one of the few senior and serious China commentators is Prof. Zheng Yongnian, far from perfect, but still he is one of the few Chinese who somewhat "gets" India. He's based in Singapore these days, and might be out of favour in the PRC

If someone is interested in reading Prof. Zheng's article using google translate https://www.ershicimi.com/p/3a36cbf2954 ... 75516557be

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Punjabi » 30 Sep 2020 06:00

darshan wrote:
Raveen wrote:Prahji, no hope, the ABCDs are brainwashed like none other. I know Gujjus who oppose Modi even after he developed the state because of some $.02 comedian's Netflix special.


Most of the ABCDs would not know anything about it. Irrespective of Gujjus. Actually that includes many of my ABCD friends and family members. The fault actually lies with parents and mandirs and not with ABCDs. For example, one of my ABCD friend was not taught any Indian language by his parents because they thought that it will make him dumber. The guy actually wanted to learn one and till this day laments not knowing Indian language to be able to teach his kids. Of course, his parents were brain washed in India to think that knowing English is everything.


Agree, for most part it is across the board...and parents esp. when we immigrate, we ourselves become more 'Gora' than Goras and send kids to go to private school where kids drives Bimmer and Mercedes to school and we feel good about it. Having seen the hatred against Hindus at Rutgers its almost hard to believe I live in an open society. Rutgers has become a cesspool of apologists, victomologists. You just need to see that stupid Billboard on Kashmir on NJ Turnpike to throw-up... I am praying hard that our SantraJi comes back as POTUS and not sleepyslimyjoe and KamalkiHarris! I'll go get drunk if Santra loses election on Nov 4th!...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Mort Walker » 30 Sep 2020 06:33

I'm not an admin, but come on guys, stay on topic.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Jwala » 30 Sep 2020 07:00

Sirs
As a newbie I am curious why given our strength currently deployed and the importance of tackling the Chinese Army early ( given the way they build infrastructure so rapidly) why our political leadership and our EAM have found it prudent to just watch and wait? Given the winter temperatures could there be a chance that our T90 tanks/Bofors guns etc. could get immobilised by the cold weather. While the comparison may not be appropriate and from my experience of cold Canadian winters, cars would have block heaters that would be plugged in overnight. While war is a dreadful, the salami slicing is difficult to accept

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 30 Sep 2020 08:26

Suraj wrote:SSridhar ji, beyond the article, could you please share more about the antecedents of this person ?


Suraj ji, besides what RaviB has said, Professor Liu Zongyi is secretary-general of the Research Centre for China–South Asia Cooperation at Shanghai Institute of International Studies (SIIS), a visiting fellow of the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies at Beijing’s People’s University of China and a distinguished fellow of the China (Kunming) South & Southeast Asia Institute (from the article).

And an Indian student pursuing Ph. D. in IR in China and who is familiar with him said she is aware that he is taken seriously in some Lutyen's circles.

The interview says that he was able to visit forward areas along the LAC now, which means he got some level of clearance.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 30 Sep 2020 08:28

Punjabi wrote:
darshan wrote:Most of the ABCDs . . .

Agree, for most part . . .

OK, enough & no more.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Deans » 30 Sep 2020 09:38

Jwala wrote:Sirs
As a newbie I am curious why given our strength currently deployed and the importance of tackling the Chinese Army early ( given the way they build infrastructure so rapidly) why our political leadership and our EAM have found it prudent to just watch and wait? Given the winter temperatures could there be a chance that our T90 tanks/Bofors guns etc. could get immobilised by the cold weather. While the comparison may not be appropriate and from my experience of cold Canadian winters, cars would have block heaters that would be plugged in overnight. While war is a dreadful, the salami slicing is difficult to accept


The altitude affects the PLA more than us (its not so much the cold, but the altitude). I've spent winter in Siberia. Its a picnic compared to 15,000
feet in north Sikkim or Ladakh.
Indian soldiers need to go back not more than 100 km, to rotate and rest at a lower altitude, after a stint at over 15,000 feet (Leh is at 11000 ft). The whole of the Tibet plateau is at 15000 ft, the Chinese will have to move back over 1000 km (the distance to their base railhead) after about 3 months at those altitudes. It will be a 3000 km journey, if they mobilise the 76th and 77th armies.
All the infra in the world cannot alter how the human body behaves.
Altitude and cold also affect vehicles. The PLA is way more dependent on them than we are.
The altitude and cold favour the defender. You expend a lot less energy resting in your dug in position, than advancing towards it.
Advancing vehicles (after a journey of several hundred km from the railhead in Xinjiang) are far more likely to break down than those dug in - our repair workshops are a lot closer to the front.
I'm not even considering the fact that a large proportion of our infantry are from the mountains and have spent most of their lives at high altitude and that we've spent decades figuring out how to operate at high altitude. IA is the only army in the world permanently deployed at high altitude.

LakshmanPST
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby LakshmanPST » 30 Sep 2020 10:18

News is coming that Pakistan is planning to make GB a 5th province...
Let's say Pakistan changes its constitution to include GB as fifth province, then India will have every right to attack Pakistan... Infact, it will become a prestige issue for India and we will have to attack Pak if & when it happens...

Removal of Article 370 by India was a huge embarrassment to Pak due to the fact that they couldn't stop it and didn't respond to it...
If they 'integrate' GB in Pakistan, it will be a perfect H&D counter to India removing Article 370...
The only thing holding back Pak from doing this change until now is the prospect of India declaring war on them...

To reduce the chances of India declaring war, the only way is to keep India busy elsewhere... That is on Chinese front...
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I have 2 possible therories about current events--->

1) China and Pak together planned this whole Ladakh mobilization... They would have thought of keeping India busy on Chinese front... When we are busy with the Chinese, they planned to include GB as 5th province in Pak...
They would have probably thought that India won't attack Pak if China is at the border, to risk a 2-front war...
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2) China mobilized for its own reasons and Pakistan is merely trying to take advantage of the current situation... Pakis would have assumed that India won't risk a 2-front war and thought this is the ideal time...
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In both above theories, my assumption is they would have calculated that India won't risk a 2-front war...
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For all other countries, removal of Article 370 by India will be equated to Pakistan 'integrating' GB with rest of the country... No country or mediahouse will delve into specific details... Infact, entire world media (and half of India's MSM & opposition) will equate both moves...
So, if India attacks Pak, India can be painted as an aggressor and China can join the fight...
If India does not attack, India's prestige will go down...
No amount of running to UN citing violation of UN resolutions by Pak will work...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby tsarkar » 30 Sep 2020 10:29

SSridhar wrote:Chinese View: India thinks it has got the better of China, so it can dare China - Prof. Liu Zhongyi, Indian Defence Review

Never had any admiration for Chinese diplomacy. The following is supposedly the reason given by a 'noted' intellectual in China on why China is unwilling either to resolve the border-dispute or even 'clarify the LAC'.

Excerpt
India has been putting China under pressure to force China to resolve border dispute, or at least determine the LAC, according to the wishes of India. India’s strategy is once the LAC is determined and the boundary with China is delineated, India can then concentrate dealing with Pakistan, concentrate its main focus and resources on the Indian Ocean, intercept China from the Indian Ocean and control China’s lifeline.


This interview is full of hilarious gems.

This is a significant disclosure! They want the border issue to fester like a septic wound so that India cannot focus on its middle east or south east asia policy. If India is absent in those regions, the Chinese will have a clear field to implement their agenda. For example, Bangladesh, Myanmar, malaysia, Indonesia, UAE, KSA.

Also want to prevent India from focussing on a strong economic policy with US & Western Europe. That is where they see a real challenge.

If Foreign minister and Finance minister are focussed on border issue, they cant focus on other things.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby V_Raman » 30 Sep 2020 10:36

I don’t think pak declaring GB as fifth province would compel India to attack. We will attack at a time and place of our choosing. We might declare so and leave it unpredictable about what/when we will do something. I think our planners would have gamed that scenario.

Once winter sets in, nothing can be done anywhere anyway...


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