India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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V_Raman
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby V_Raman » 17 Oct 2020 01:55

Given the events, I think Deans-2022 is more likely now.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 17 Oct 2020 02:49

62 is infact the perfect template what the Chinis would like to achieve.

62: They attacked and got to advance further. Convinced us to a ceasefire. The icing on the cake was to convince us NOT to alter the LAC for the past 58 years!, despite the fact that China attacked and occupied our areas! We even had a nice deal where we went home in winter, with no one guarding nor bothered to occupy the lost ground!

I mean what stopped us from moving in to Sirijap in winter? It is amazing how cheaply we allowed Chinese to guard LAC.

The Chinese somehow want another 62. Get more land, convince us of our "inferiority". All get to go home in winter, but India to accept the new LAC!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 17 Oct 2020 02:57

Our MEA minister has mentioned that "talks are classified". Translation: India is discussing a face saver deal for the Chinis..

The babus from the both sides must have joined the talks to override local commanders. The primary issue is that the Chinis babu is on the side of PLA. Our babus are "statesman" characters.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby suryag » 17 Oct 2020 06:31

Can you all stop whining and other R&D, in the age of readymade satellite images and 15 min wannabe heroes who will pay 25k to publish the images the truth will be out soon. Have faith guys!!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby kumarn » 17 Oct 2020 09:32

We will looose wonleee!!!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 17 Oct 2020 09:58

Why do we need to enter into a " face-saving" deal for the sh*tworms of Zhongnanhai? Let the world watch how India has shoved its bayonets up the nether ends of the "yellow peril."
It's past time for India to flex its muscles and show Asia and the world that we can not only stand up to Commie Chins but also bloody their backsides. Our MEA mandarins are steeped in the art of kow-tow towards the PRC,not kalaripayattu,which they should practice!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 17 Oct 2020 12:34

Embedded video ...

https://twitter.com/FreakingBeasts/stat ... 0617975809

Chinese Social Media Video showing PLA Postions on the southern bank of #PangongTso very close to Indian Positions.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 17 Oct 2020 13:12

It is not about loosing. I fear our babus will find a solution, even if it is a tactical victory.

It is very important, that we don't find a solution. The continuation of the standoff is very important for our future.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Oct 2020 13:26

pankajs wrote:Embedded video ...

https://twitter.com/FreakingBeasts/stat ... 0617975809

Chinese Social Media Video showing PLA Postions on the southern bank of #PangongTso very close to Indian Positions.


This was in summer in the best of conditions.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby putnanja » 17 Oct 2020 15:30

China insists Indians vacate Chushul heights, India says clear Pangong north

China’s insistence on India vacating its advanced positions on the south bank of Pangong Tso as a precursor to discussions on Delhi’s demand for status quo ante of April has emerged as the new sticking point in efforts to resolve the military standoff along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, highly placed government sources said Friday.

Sources said Delhi is insisting on simultaneous withdrawal of forces from the Pangong north bank — where Chinese troops have crossed the point which India says marks the LAC — and advanced Indian positions on the south bank to mutually agreed locations. A source in the ruling establishment, familiar with developments on the Ladakh frontier, said India crossed the LAC at “seven places” to counter the Chinese transgressions.

“We have crossed over at seven places. Why do you think China is still at the negotiating table?” the source said. The Chinese demand comes in the backdrop of Indian troops occupying advanced positions, beyond its patrolling points, in the Chushul sub-sector towards the end of August.
...
...
The Indian political establishment, however, remains wary of Beijing’s commitment despite the dialogues that Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar had with their Chinese counterparts in Moscow.

“The talks between Defence Ministers and Foreign Ministers of both sides were on similar lines. Beijing only says that it wants peace and tranquillity at the border between the two countries. But this is what India also wants. They (the Chinese) don’t, however, explain the reason for their troop build-up,” the source said.

“Kuchh bhi ho sakta hai. Vishwas nahin hota hai China par. We are prepared for any eventuality,” the source said, pointing out that enough supplies for the winter have been made available to Indian forces to mirror the Chinese build-up at the Ladakh frontier.
...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vijayk » 17 Oct 2020 19:27

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/india-cro ... -officials
India Crossed LAC At Seven Places To Bring China To The Negotiating Table, Says Report Citing Officials

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby AdityaM » 17 Oct 2020 23:50

occupying advanced positions, beyond its patrolling points


This could just mean we r present beyond traditional patrolling points, but within the LAC. We know that has already happened.
Doesn't mean much.
Last edited by AdityaM on 18 Oct 2020 01:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vnadendla » 18 Oct 2020 00:27

AdityaM wrote:
occupying advanced positions, beyond its patrolling points


This could just mean we r present beyond traditional patrolling points, but within the LAC. We know that has already happened.
Doesn't mean much.


You mean all this Hullaboo over Kala Top? No! Crossed at 7 points seems more appropriate given the reaction of Chinese.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sanjaykumar » 18 Oct 2020 01:56

Not surprising at all. Really only a confirmation.

The question is what purpose does it serve the GOI to leak this information at this time.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby satya » 18 Oct 2020 02:28

sanjaykumar wrote:Not surprising at all. Really only a confirmation.

The question is what purpose does it serve the GOI to leak this information at this time.


First Create a perception of Two Steps forward & later One step backward. ( troops withdrawal in Simple terms but packed for gullible indian public)

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby fanne » 18 Oct 2020 03:11

bus sahab sare deshbhakt aur stategist BR par bhare pade hain. GOI me to dogle log bhare pade hain. Itni deshbhakti dikhao, jakar election lado, army me bharti ho jao ya defaince me self immolate ho jayo. Kuch to karo, bas gyan dena band karo. Some TFTA pakistani were left in India, they now come at BR, check their TFTA ness and proclaim every one else has loose a$$ (meaning sell out). Give me a break!!

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vnadendla » 18 Oct 2020 03:39

sanjaykumar wrote:Not surprising at all. Really only a confirmation.

The question is what purpose does it serve the GOI to leak this information at this time.


Pressure on China. Once this information is public, we cannot go back. So lets make a deal now ; thats the argument.

Ignoring the conspiracy theories.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nandakumar » 18 Oct 2020 11:56

The only deal that China would want that they continue to remain in Galwan valley and we vacating the heights in Kailas range. As a concession they might release some video footage of Chinese soldiers packing up and leaving while keeping defensive positions intact for reoccupying the valley. If GOI is okay with this arrangement what is there to say? Complete sell out.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby LakshmanPST » 18 Oct 2020 16:09

nandakumar wrote:The only deal that China would want that they continue to remain in Galwan valley and we vacating the heights in Kailas range. As a concession they might release some video footage of Chinese soldiers packing up and leaving while keeping defensive positions intact for reoccupying the valley. If GOI is okay with this arrangement what is there to say? Complete sell out.


Except for the last 5km stretch, India never had control of Galwan valley since 1962... And we are not going to give up the last 5 km anyway...
What exactly is your point...???

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 18 Oct 2020 17:05

We are adept at creating scenarios so that we can collectively spit on India.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Kritavarman » 18 Oct 2020 17:15

Will Mods please step in

This thread is turning into mere speculation and whataboutery with no valid basis and many preposterous assumptions.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby fanne » 18 Oct 2020 18:28

Yes admin, can we please do something about the crowd that comes everyday and shout sellout for no reason? No valid or logical point, just their fear or worst some hidden agenda. If they suffer from inferiority complex (where India always looses or gets betrayed) they should go and see a shrink not come on BR and dump.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sonugn » 18 Oct 2020 20:00

It seems that the Chinese are upping the ante on Taiwan.

1. Could be a diversion for something on LAC
2. Could be a ploy to force Taiwan to go slow on it's diplomatic overtures to other countries

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Guddu » 18 Oct 2020 21:00

Anyone willing to guess, how this ends...this year or next. Or will this become a permanent situation like the LOC. I fear we have converted the LAC to LOC.
Will Taiwanese PM be republic day guest ?...seems impossible for now. Of note, the US has invited Tibetan representatives for discussions to the USA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sonugn » 18 Oct 2020 21:21

Guddu wrote:Anyone willing to guess, how this ends...this year or next. Or will this become a permanent situation like the LOC. I fear we have converted the LAC to LOC.
Will Taiwanese PM be republic day guest ?...seems impossible for now. Of note, the US has invited Tibetan representatives for discussions to the USA.

1. Either GOI or CCP regime needs to blink first, else we are in long LOC haul
2.I wish Taiwanese leader be the republic day guest but this won't happen

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby eklavya » 18 Oct 2020 21:57

Taiwan should be invited to join the Quad dialogue. Frankly, they have a much bigger issue with CCP fascism than Oz. Taiwan Air Force should also be invited to practice war drills with IAF.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby csharma » 18 Oct 2020 22:10

China might do a quick strike and proclaim victory. They might be looking for an opportunity. Jayadev Ranade spoke about this.

Of course IA is there to deny them this opportunity.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nandakumar » 18 Oct 2020 22:29

LakshmanPST wrote:
nandakumar wrote:The only deal that China would want that they continue to remain in Galwan valley and we vacating the heights in Kailas range. As a concession they might release some video footage of Chinese soldiers packing up and leaving while keeping defensive positions intact for reoccupying the valley. If GOI is okay with this arrangement what is there to say? Complete sell out.


Except for the last 5km stretch, India never had control of Galwan valley since 1962... And we are not going to give up the last 5 km anyway...
What exactly is your point...???

Isn't the 5 kms stretch the bone of contention? If there is going to be a deal they would go through the motion of vacating and then reoccupy the same land after we vacate the heights on Kailash range. I was afraid of such a deal which was what I was expressing in my earlier post.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Mort Walker » 19 Oct 2020 05:38

Let me ask one thing which is peripherally related to Indian military personnel on the border? Has the Dearness Allowance been restored to military personnel stationed at India's borders? For civilians in the MoD and the rest of GoI personnel, it is on hold until July 2021.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Karan M » 19 Oct 2020 06:36

satya wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Not surprising at all. Really only a confirmation.

The question is what purpose does it serve the GOI to leak this information at this time.


First Create a perception of Two Steps forward & later One step backward. ( troops withdrawal in Simple terms but packed for gullible indian public)


Kindly don't make such defeatist posts without any tangible evidence.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby LakshmanPST » 19 Oct 2020 11:27

nandakumar wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:
Except for the last 5km stretch, India never had control of Galwan valley since 1962... And we are not going to give up the last 5 km anyway...
What exactly is your point...???

Isn't the 5 kms stretch the bone of contention? If there is going to be a deal they would go through the motion of vacating and then reoccupy the same land after we vacate the heights on Kailash range. I was afraid of such a deal which was what I was expressing in my earlier post.


That 5 kms stretch is NOT the bone of contention... Yes, China would like to occupy it, but it is not the only area thay want... China would want to occupy entire Ladakh...
The last 5 km stretch of Galwan has always been under Indian control... It was never under Chinese control... They do not control the heights in that area either...
If India gives up that stretch, the whole DS-DBO road will be useless... Our Generals are not fools to give up that area... Even if some BIF govt. wants to give it away in future, they will resist it the way they resisted the proposed 'Siachin demilitarization'...
-
Think logocally for a minute, why would India give up two strategically important locations simultaneously for nothing...??? Both Kailash range and 5km Galwan stretch are strategically important for us... And we occupy them both...
Why would we give them off to China just like that and go home...? For what...?
We are not even giving up strategically less important area between Finger 4 to 8...
You're just making wild speculations without any evidence (not even from any source based news from credible journalists)...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby tsarkar » 19 Oct 2020 12:27

AdityaM wrote:
occupying advanced positions, beyond its patrolling points
This could just mean we r present beyond traditional patrolling points, but within the LAC. We know that has already happened.
Doesn't mean much.

Within Indian territory as per Chinese perception of LAC.

What this means is that China wants India to withdraw from Indian Territory (as per Chinese perception of LAC) before China possibly moves back from Indian Territory with no assurances of reoccupying it (and other areas now occupied by India) at a future point of time.

Near Finger 8 is Sirijap is where Dhan Singh Thapa famously fought out of ammunition down to three men before killing Chinese in hand to hand combat. He was awarded the Param Vir Chakra for this action. The Chinese didnt advance beyond that point in 1962

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirijap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhan_Singh_Thapa

Interesting to see how the negotiations play out in the days to come.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 19 Oct 2020 13:29

Guddu wrote:Anyone willing to guess, how this ends...this year or next. Or will this become a permanent situation like the LOC. I fear we have converted the LAC to LOC.
Will Taiwanese PM be republic day guest ?...seems impossible for now. Of note, the US has invited Tibetan representatives for discussions to the USA.

Yes we should just accept the Chinese terms and every thing will be back to "normal". LAC will remain LAC.

PM of India does NOT even acknowledge a public message.from the Taiwan president and we have people inviting her for Republic day parade!

India == US but only in the dreams of the jingos.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby JTull » 19 Oct 2020 15:23

Chinese soldier apprehended by Indian Army in Ladakh

A Chinese Army soldier was apprehended near ChumarDemchok area of Ladakh on Monday morning.

The PLA soldier is currently in captivity of Indian Army. According to sources, the soldier might have entered the Indian territory inadvertently.

He will be returned to Chinese Army as per established protocol after following due procedure, sources were quoted as saying by news agency ANI.

The latest incident was reported as both India and China held eighth round of discussion to resolve the border dispute in eastern Ladakh.

The previous meeting of the military commanders from both sides to resolve the six month standoff was held at Chushul on October 12 but too ended without any resolution of the dispute.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby madhu » 19 Oct 2020 15:27

Chinese Soldier Captured in Ladakh's Demchok, Was Carrying Civil and Military Documents
solider of People's Liberation Army (PLA) has been captured near Demchok area of Ladakh, said sources in the Army. This comes amid the border tussle between India and China in the region.
The Army is questioning the soldier, who is said to be from the 6th Motorised Infantry Division, to see if he is on an espionage mission. He was carrying civil and military documents, sources said.
The solider claimed to have entered India to recover his yak, sources said, adding that he was alone and had no weapons. "If he has entered inadvertently, he will be handed back to the Chinese as per protocol," they further said.
The incident is said to have taken place on Sunday night. Sources said that Army is now preparing a formal statement.
Last edited by ramana on 20 Oct 2020 20:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added highlight.ramana

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 19 Oct 2020 16:44

Any updates on this, 1 soldier seems odd, could be lost or spying. One would expect a patrol to infiltrate.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby k prasad » 19 Oct 2020 17:26

I wonder which part of Demchok 'area' this was in. At least at the Denchok village, the control lines seem to be fairly demarcated by the Indus River on the east and a nullah to the south, so it's hard for someone to cross that part of the boundary by accident.

Possibility 1 is that this is in another part of that sector where we control areas on the eastern banks of the Indus, or option 2, we control some territory south of the nullah, or option 3, that it was a "here kitty kitty" situation and the PLA grunt thought he could sneak in and back and pick up the yak without either side being the wiser. Or option 4 is that it was an attempt at gauging our responses.

I suspect it's either option 1 or 3.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby fanne » 19 Oct 2020 17:36

Zimble only read baba tweet 4 vs 7. They had 4 of our people, we got 7, a colonel to boot. Now it is next move in the chess where we announce it. Only request rudaalis please no breast beating.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RajaRudra » 19 Oct 2020 17:49

k prasad wrote:I wonder which part of Demchok 'area' this was in. At least at the Denchok village, the control lines seem to be fairly demarcated by the Indus River on the east and a nullah to the south, so it's hard for someone to cross that part of the boundary by accident.

Possibility 1 is that this is in another part of that sector where we control areas on the eastern banks of the Indus, or option 2, we control some territory south of the nullah, or option 3, that it was a "here kitty kitty" situation and the PLA grunt thought he could sneak in and back and pick up the yak without either side being the wiser. Or option 4 is that it was an attempt at gauging our responses.

I suspect it's either option 1 or 3.


Pressure will be on Communist militia to get their lad back by request or pledge.
What ever, its time to take a popcorn and enjoy the show.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 19 Oct 2020 17:52

Australia included in Malabar 2020


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