India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby D.Mahesh » 21 Oct 2020 07:40

nam wrote:The lesson that has got embedded in GoI (irrespective of the party in power) is was that not that Chinese will intrude again, but that they will leave after asking for some local changes (stop water supply, some hut or bunker etc). Or like Doklam, enough chai and biscuit will melt Chinis hearts...

The same attitude was displayed UNTIL Galwan clash. The Chinis wanted something big this time, so they came in multiple numbers. But GoI still hoped, they will leave.

Chinis, this time were asking for something strategic in nature. Stopping our infra build across Ladakh. If the Chinis go back this time, the lesson will become more hardened. And I am pretty sure, we will get caught surprised again, in the next round.


You are doing an Uday Bhaskar & getting it ***ackwards.
China harrumphed about Indian infra in 2014, when this govt announced it would contract with Japan to build up in Arunachal Pradesh.
Since then it's Indian infra build up that has taken Xitler by surprise. Actually for the 1st time, China is surprised how easily someone else can scale up and mass produce infra.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 21 Oct 2020 12:14

Sanjaya Baru
58 years later, India-China relationship has changed. Inequality has grown
Fifty-eight years ago, Chinese troops entered the Indian territory to make a point. Historians and international relations scholars have spent half a century trying to explain that unexpected and first-ever war between the two Asian giants. The simple point that Mao Zedong tried to make at the time to Jawaharlal Nehru was that China did not regard India an equal. Fifty-eight years later, that is precisely the point that Xi Jinping has been trying to make to Narendra Modi. There is, however, one fundamental difference.

In the 1950s, and indeed till the turn of the century, there were good reasons for Indian leaders to view China as an equal. Apart from civilisational legacies and cultural factors, the performance of both economies allowed them to feel so. Indeed, before the two became independent nations, Indian representatives fought hard at the Bretton Woods conference, where the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD) — now the World Bank — were created, for parity with China. It was the United States that voted in favour of China being given a higher vote share than India, and John Maynard Keynes, the intellectual architect of the IMF and WB, was deployed to chastise his former students, who were now Indian government officials, to fall in line.

The so-called “India story” was defined in simple numbers — an annual average rate of growth of 3.5 per cent in 1950-80 (close to China’s own rates of around 4 per cent), 5.5 per cent in 1980-2000 and 7.5 per cent in 2000-2015. China’s great moderniser Deng Xiaoping was willing to tell Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1988 that “Only when China and India have developed will a real Asian century emerge”. It was this narrative that fed the popular discourse best captured in Singapore’s founder-leader’s metaphor of Asia being the jet plane that was taking off, powered by two engines — China and India. The Chinese were amused by this narrative, given the rapid pace of their own rise post-1980 and the slower pace of India’s. However, till around 2015, they were willing to tolerate this view.

To cut a long story short, Nehru’s hubris in the 1950s had some historical and material basis. However, it was not backed either by military capability or diplomatic effort. On the other hand, India under Modi finds itself in a better military and diplomatic space. Indeed, Indian diplomacy today has been superior to that in the run-up to 1962. Nehru paid the price for heeding Krishna Menon’s advice. Modi is benefitting from S Jaishankar’s mature advice and Rajnath Singh’s quiet leadership. India’s relations with the Quad countries have added diplomatic muscle to an adequately competent military frame.

However, the major power differential is economic and technological. In 1960, China’s gross domestic product (GDP), valued in US dollars at 2010 prices, was estimated to have been $128.3 billion, while India’s was $148.8 billion. Even as late as 1978, China’s GDP was estimated to be $293.6 billion, compared to India’s $293.2 billion. Today, the Chinese economy is nearly five times the size of India’s in US dollar terms and almost two-and-a-half times India’s in purchasing power parity terms. Moreover, in terms of CNP, which incorporates scientific and technological power and human capital formation, China out-ranks India many times over.

Xi’s confidence is based on the material foundations of Chinese power, requiring Modi to adopt a more cautious approach. For all the bravado of Modi’s domestic politics, he has so far walked a cautious diplomatic path, while keeping the powder dry. Modi cannot afford Nehru’s pretence for he can easily pay Nehru’s price. To regain global stature, India has to continue to focus on its domestic economic capability and human capital. There are no short cuts to global power and influence.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pushkar.bhat » 21 Oct 2020 12:57

M_Joshi wrote:It's my hunch that the recent Mumbai Electrical grid blackout was a cyber attack from Chin. Obviously there will be no official word on this but it's a conspiracy theory I'm inclined to believe in.

No it was really a cable break in the Khandala Ghat. Please don't spread your conspiracy theories when no conspiracy exists.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby g.sarkar » 21 Oct 2020 14:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJeNbn3ZDJk
Movement At LAC Always Done In Pairs, It's A Military Custom, Says Lt Gen (Retd) Ata Hasnain
Gautam

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shyamd » 21 Oct 2020 20:39

On India-US agenda, a plan to share defence intel from Ladakh to South China Sea
There is a strong possibility that the two sides could work out a pact that allows institutionalised relationship between the Defence Intelligence Agencies of the two countries. India and the US already share real-time intelligence through the communication agreement called COMCASA. But the new pact would allow the two allies to share vital tri-services intelligence on developments in all defence matters ranging from the South China Sea to Ladakh. This proposal has been hanging fire for quite some years without any results.

Some members were denying that this was taking place

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 22 Oct 2020 02:29

The chinis cannot break us with military force, so they must be planning to fund trouble makers, left wing loonies with the help of media to make more noise. Add to this, they will fish in our social issues.

We have enough politicians who can sell themselves for the right price. And enough Chinese companies to fund them.

Expect lot of fear mongering in coming days on our social issues.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vimal » 22 Oct 2020 05:50

They don't need to break us with force. A short expensive war (from Indian POV) will be enough. There are enough JaiChands in India to drag Modi down if something bad comes out of this. Their west coast munna is also there to cause trouble.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby D.Mahesh » 22 Oct 2020 06:11

Dilbu wrote:Sanjaya Baru
58 years later, India-China relationship has changed. Inequality has grown
Fifty-eight years ago, ....


Important differences.
This regime has assumed power with v.v.different framework of thought, purpose, goals. It's rumoured that ABV ordered to organise a PNE within hours of his 1st essay of 13 days. He had the new framework and purpose but more proximate oals for he was unsure where political footing lay. This regime is further down the road, and its appointments must be seen differently. Given its goals who's the best person to advise and shine a light to the way ahead?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 22 Oct 2020 07:02

Nam,quite right. Democracy comes at a price.As Bhutto wrote , India is " held together by its noise annd chaos." Mischief-making abundant." Abdullahs" ,will blow the Chin bugle and greedy businessmen will peddle PRC products oblivious to the fate of our local industry. Babus will resist eco. and diplomatic punishment
advising the kowtow to the great Han,while queues will form to receive from Uncle Cash their 30 pieces of silver to betray the nation.

I am still urging my saffron friends to continue the boycott PRC product campaign this Diwali with renewed vigour.Every rupee denied to the Chinkos is a small victory for India.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Leonard » 22 Oct 2020 09:35

It's Time to really rip into the CCP ..

So I started LOOKING for a "FREE TIBET" -- T-Shirt/ Face MASK

Does ANYONE -- KNOW of a T-Shirt/100 % Wicking Shirt Manufacturer ?

1. CAN we have them Manufacture FREE TIBET shirts and ADVERTIZE on Amazon World Wide -- Can you believe it the CHINKS are MFG & making money on the same

2. Can WE manufacture CLOTH/Polyester FACE masks with FREE TIBET & Tibetan FLAG on the Mask -- Again Sell on Amazon

It would be great if the COST is kept low and MONEY is made on SHEER -- volume of sales !!

With the CURRENT trend World Wide against the CCP chinks -- it WOULD really really send a HUGE message.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby george » 22 Oct 2020 11:19

FOCK certification for products - Free Of Chinese Krap

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby mmasand » 22 Oct 2020 20:22

samirdiw wrote:
Taiwan changing the maps to include only current day Taiwan is one of the red lines that China has identified and will invite a military response on Taiwan.


The fact remains that the PRC as well as the Republic of China (ROC) consider Tibet as part of their territory; this has been the central node of friction in Tibet-Taiwan relations. The existence and continuation of the Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission (MTAC) façade evidently shows that the traditional mindset of the government of Taiwan has decided the fate of the political status of Tibet, and more importantly, showed the unyielding position continued even under President Tsai Ing-wen. The Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC) has evidently demonstrated this position on Tibet and which continues to remain a stumbling block in the future enhancement of Tibet-Taiwan relations.


This is the Tibetan Govt's position on ROC's claim to the Tibetan question. Taiwan for it's own existential reasons has desisted to claim independence, in all reality it's a good bargaining chip for GOI to open any trade negotiations/office in the future.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 22 Oct 2020 22:02

The claims are only valid if Taiwan represent China. If Taiwan considers itself an independent country, then it is NOT China.

It cannot claim areas on behalf of China. More than claims on Tibet etc, what would be interesting to see if Taiwan claim mainland China, specially if it becomes independent. I think Taiwanese themselves don't Independence, because they will loose the right to claim mainland China. If China was democratic, which allowed KMT to grab power, Taiwanese would gladly join China.

The Chinis are trying to bottle Taiwan, because they don't want to share Taiwan's tech capability to other countries. Just like Chinis got a nice international money laundering center in Honkong, without too much sweat..

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby george » 22 Oct 2020 23:16

Image

Taiwans Claims are exactly the same as China's, if not worse. If they dont come clean on these ridiculous claims, how are they different from ccp?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020- Part 2

Postby banrjeer » 22 Oct 2020 23:36

Anoop wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Membrane filtration technology is available to turn brackish water into potable water. Further stills at that attitude are more effecticient as the boiling point of water is lower.

There should be no need to transport water.


Neither of these are feasible options for large quantities in those locations. Running RO systems requires significant electric power for which you need large generators, which require large fuel supply. Might as well use those fuel trucks to bring potable water. Stills require fuel too, plus cooling media for condensation. Could work on a small scale to supply a cut off post, but not 1000s of troops. If these were feasible, we would not need porters to haul jerry cans.



They don't need generators or fuel for RO, only solar panels. The have dumped cheap solar panels worldwide. Why would they stop at Tibet??
They need diesel to transport to the last mile, but for bases with higher population without much water head, they would set up pipelines and pumps.

In general pumping may be easier for them, since they are on relatively flatter land.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Suraj » 22 Oct 2020 23:45

george wrote:{BS picture off flickr deleted}

Taiwans Claims are exactly the same as China's, if not worse. If they dont come clean on these ridiculous claims, how are they different from ccp?

Sigh. Here we go again - more Chinese psyops . Please read the linked posts in the following post:
Why Taiwan's 'Territorial Claims' are PRC Propaganda Today
BRF needs to stop repeatedly being hoodwinked by these arguments.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 23 Oct 2020 03:27

October 16, 2020 — External Affairs Minister of India Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, discusses his new book The India Way: Strategies for an Uncertain World, and the global challenges confronting India today with Asia Society Policy Institute President Kevin Rudd



Interesting comment at 31:30 !

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Guddu » 23 Oct 2020 09:11

I listened from 31:30 onwards..I find Jaishankar weak. He has no opinion on why China did what they did. He is still clinging to peace agreements with China. Living in the past. Those agreements are in tatters, when will leadership realize that and move on.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sanjayc » 23 Oct 2020 11:25

Chinese never talk about peace agreements -- only India does. Shows weakness. When will we be aggressive and China would be bleating to us about peace agreements?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sonugn » 23 Oct 2020 12:24

Guddu wrote:I listened from 31:30 onwards..I find Jaishankar weak. He has no opinion on why China did what they did. He is still clinging to peace agreements with China. Living in the past. Those agreements are in tatters, when will leadership realize that and move on.

The penchant to be seen as a "peace loving and responsible one in the comity of nations" and where every transgression can be downplayed as "difference in perception of the LAC".

But ,seriously,many a times i feel that EAM is just feigning with respect to the CCP intent just to play them.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby george » 23 Oct 2020 12:45

Suraj wrote:
george wrote:{BS picture off flickr deleted}

Taiwans Claims are exactly the same as China's, if not worse. If they dont come clean on these ridiculous claims, how are they different from ccp?

Sigh. Here we go again - more Chinese psyops . Please read the linked posts in the following post:
Why Taiwan's 'Territorial Claims' are PRC Propaganda Today
BRF needs to stop repeatedly being hoodwinked by these arguments.


Thanks for the reference Suraj. I was not aware.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nandakumar » 23 Oct 2020 12:50

If the EAM were to say that China did what it did for reason X,Y, or Z then it would be taken to be an official statement. That would lead to unnecessary controversy besides being rejected by some low ranking official in the Chinese foreign ministry. As a minister Jaishankar has no personal opinion. Hence the equivocation.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby george » 23 Oct 2020 12:53

Kevin Rudd ...
Does Jaishankar not know this mans past. The very reason Australia is a decade late in joining Malabar is that vile mandarin bootlicking POS.
Why even agree to talk to such a creep?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 23 Oct 2020 13:39

In my very humble opinion, EAM Jaishankar has to move on from this line of reasoning that India and China are two great ancient Asian civilisations and two most populous countries that have to behave responsibly etc etc. He starts with the argument that we have so much in common therefore... while the Chinese bristle at this argument, seeing it as India's way of creating some preachy equal-equal view which they reject and consider themselves vastly superior in every aspect. You can't build a bridge when one side thinks its much higher than the other. We tried this in Wuhan, Mamallapuram and obviously this way of attempting a rapprochement (while being academically a fair thing to say) has proven totally counterproductive. It has only resulted in the Chinese concluding that India, if unchecked will become a serious threat in the near future and must be put in its place.

In the interview he _almost_ admits that we have no clue why the Chinese have gone aggressive on the border, and does a last second pirouette like a good diplomat would. I think we will be clueless regarding Chinese behaviour only as long we cling on to this line of argument. Once we set this aside, and realise that the CCP doesnt like to go into the past (century of humiliation etc) and wants to break away from it completely and adopts a "here and now" way of looking at the world, our own blinkered vision will expand and help us see things as they are. And really be the realists that Jaishankar keeps saying we should be in world matters.

Lastly, does it matter why the Chinese did what they did beyond a point? The bottomline is that they have made an unprovoked aggression and it should be given a befitting reply. When they see India going from "preaching and pleading" to "preemptive and punitive" _they_ will start singing the "two great ancient civilisations" song !

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Suraj » 23 Oct 2020 13:40

george wrote:
Suraj wrote:Sigh. Here we go again - more Chinese psyops . Please read the linked posts in the following post:
Why Taiwan's 'Territorial Claims' are PRC Propaganda Today
BRF needs to stop repeatedly being hoodwinked by these arguments.

Thanks for the reference Suraj. I was not aware.

No problem. It will take a while for everyone to understand the long running PRC psyops of 'oh Taiwan also has the same territorial claims' . It is something constructed by PRC and not by the Taiwanese themselves - the latter have long since given up on ROC as some reunified entity.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chola » 23 Oct 2020 14:13

^^^ Suraj ji, hopefully understanding the Taiwanese will help bring their factories from Cheen to India. The same with the Koreans and Japanese.

But the unfortunate truth is these countries are the ones who built Cheen into what it is today. Without them, the PRC was actually poorer per capita than we were in the 1970s.

They are also the ones helping Cheen survive Trump's trade and tech war.

Can we change this in the future? I hope so. But the Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese are deploying a "China + 1" where they hedge by adding an extra country to their base chini supply chain and it seems they are more interested in Vietnam as the "+ 1." Race and culture will always be factors.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rajpa » 23 Oct 2020 14:23

FM's POV is from a purely legal diplomatic point of view.

He is putting forth the argument that we have had decades of peace using certain sovereign agreements and he is wondering why China is breaching those agreements and causing instability. This brings home the fact that no signed agreement with China is worth the paper it is signed on.

This naturally leads to democratic countries forming QUAD etc. against china, as we are built on rules based order and China clearly is not.

Basically we are ganging up on Sugarland, and they should at least know it now.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby arshyam » 23 Oct 2020 14:34

Cyrano wrote:...while the Chinese bristle at this argument, seeing it as India's way of creating some preachy equal-equal view which they reject and consider themselves vastly superior in every aspect.
So isn't that a good thing? It's not that they are not going to pick a fight with us otherwise - it's inevitable, and so we might as well control the narrative.

Cyrano wrote:It has only resulted in the Chinese concluding that India, if unchecked will become a serious threat in the near future and must be put in its place.
It's a fait accompli given their Zhongguo nonsense, irrespective of what we do.

Cyrano wrote:I think we will be clueless regarding Chinese behaviour only as long we cling on to this line of argument.
What we say we are thinking and what are actually thinking can be two different things. I think that's what's happening here - EAM makes all the right noises, PM holds the line at "veer bhogya vasundhara", while the RM quietly goes about enabling military options (infra, equipment and some sabre-rattling via a lot of missile tests), and the FM keeps squeezing them economically :lol:. I am sure some sun thoo/PRC strategery could explain this (the four approachables or some sh1t like that). Except that, we are taking this approach with them.

Cyrano wrote:When they see India going from "preaching and pleading" to "preemptive and punitive" _they_ will start singing the "two great ancient civilisations" song !

Actually, it's the other way round - they (Chinese state media) initially started off by being dismissive, and ended up almost pleading with us to see their strength and back off. Didn't someone share a gobar times editorial about this? But we haven't. Yet, despite all this bluster, they diligently show up each round of chai-biskoot, and did so even after we provoked them by taking control of the Kailash range near Chushul while the talks were on. So who's really preaching and pleading here?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 23 Oct 2020 15:44

So isn't that a good thing?

Not really, holding narrative is pointless when post Wuhan, M'puram and 17 odd meetings between Modi and Xitler, we get surprised by their border offensive, F4 occupation and Galwan attack. Its not miscalculation but a misreading of Chinese mindset and intent.

May be, our four horsemen are indeed playing this out as you say in a deliberate manner. But the success of this approach so far hasn't gone beyond stopping further aggression. No disengagement or deescalation has happened on India's terms.

IIRC, post our troops occupying Kailash range heights, Chinese FM or someone like that did indeed make references to civilisations etc.

The point I'm making is, our EAM's narrative is making us appear soft and sends the message that India has lot of patience. Those who know China better will be wondering why we have our head in the clouds.

I'd rather Jaishankar keep the sophisticated reasonings for private conversations with his counterparts who appreciate these subtleties, and mostly speak in short sharp phrases in public stating India's position and expectations, leaving out the elaborate rationale. The later approach will keep others guessing, force them to try and understand why he is taking such and such position, which is not a bad thing. He is still transitioning from being diplomat who (re)presents to being a minister who simply states our position and what we expect China to do I suppose.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Adrija » 23 Oct 2020 15:51

Flks, please do read Jaishankar's book on The India Way and especially his learnings from the Mahabharat.......... specifically Krushna's conduct w both the Sandhi prastaav as well as Jarasandha vad.... that would be helpful in understanding GoI's actions vs China right now..

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 23 Oct 2020 15:57

As I expected, Chinis are building new airport/airbase/ALG. It is a matter of time, before they overcome the deficiency in PLAAF numbers. You just built more airbases. Even if you deploy 1 sqd each, you just build 30-40 airbase/airports. Very doable for the Chinis.

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 1741868032

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 23 Oct 2020 15:59

Have ordered the book and received it recently, will start reading this week. Having listened to SJ's interviews about it, it will be quite an interesting read I'm looking fwd to.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Adrija » 23 Oct 2020 17:40

Finally was able to go through the video

Not sure why we jingoes at least should continue to speculate as to why China has done this act on the border- China itself has made it clear as to the reason- it is us building our border infrastructure. My sense is that China sees this as upsetting the status quo- the quid pro quo was that we would not develop the border infrastructure and China would not post troops so that both remain "distant' from the border considering their longer supply lines vs our shorter and closer position. And China sees border infra development as upsetting that status quo. But from our perspective that means we were forced to rely on their Intent and not their (already existing) capabilities... in addition they continued to nibble/ salami slice and take control of tactically advantageous positions across the entire border which we had no choice but to grin and bear it given our lack of border infra. The Modi government is doing exactly the right things IMHO. Let us be evenly matched on capabilities, as intent can always change.

And not that it matters, but that fellow Rudd remains the Mandarin ass licking slime he has always been..... trying to propagate "but Xi does not know/ this action is of local commandus onleee" bs

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chola » 23 Oct 2020 20:25

nam wrote:As I expected, Chinis are building new airport/airbase/ALG. It is a matter of time, before they overcome the deficiency in PLAAF numbers. You just built more airbases. Even if you deploy 1 sqd each, you just build 30-40 airbase/airports. Very doable for the Chinis.

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 1741868032


They can't make up the difference in the next three months. In purely practical terms, the best time to fight was during Doklam and the last best opportunity was after the attack on 16 Bihar.

But we still own major advantages from the air despite Cheen upping their force levels to divisions from the original three brigades. If we choose to go kinetic.

Eh, both sides are entrenching and winter is coming. Every day that goes by the kinetic option goes further away for either side. We are in the long haul of infrastructure building for everyone. The chinis will pamper their lil emperors with cold-proof barracks complete with gymns and jaccuzzis from their industrial complex and we will scramble to buy cold weather gear from Amreeka and Yurop.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vnadendla » 23 Oct 2020 20:57

Adrija wrote:...... Let us be evenly matched on capabilities, as intent can always change.


If we are evenly matched on capabilities then its advantage India. That's their fear.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Nihat » 23 Oct 2020 23:33

We will be evenly matched soon enough. Perhaps IA sees no good reason to disengage and will use the opportunity to build a road and rail network all across the LAC and only when we feel confident that we can out mobilize the Chinese at the border, will we bother to move back.

Maybe it'll be 5 or 10 years but perhaps the planners believe that we have the staying power to bully as well as build

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sanju » 24 Oct 2020 02:31

nam wrote:As I expected, Chinis are building new airport/airbase/ALG. It is a matter of time, before they overcome the deficiency in PLAAF numbers. You just built more airbases. Even if you deploy 1 sqd each, you just build 30-40 airbase/airports. Very doable for the Chinis.

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 1741868032


They can built any number of airfields/alg etc, it is not going to change the lift capability, as explained ad nauseum on this thread.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby fanne » 24 Oct 2020 04:58

Sanju wrote:
nam wrote:As I expected, Chinis are building new airport/airbase/ALG. It is a matter of time, before they overcome the deficiency in PLAAF numbers. You just built more airbases. Even if you deploy 1 sqd each, you just build 30-40 airbase/airports. Very doable for the Chinis.

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 1741868032


They can built any number of airfields/alg etc, it is not going to change the lift capability, as explained ad nauseum on this thread.


Are you sure? Indians cannot as their planes will not lift much from 4K or above meters high airfields, but sure chinese planes can. Just ask people like Ajai Shookla or ex NSG Mennon or Journalist like Shekhar Gupta aur even Shri Rahul ji. Well OR you can also listen to many dhoti shibering BR folks

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 24 Oct 2020 14:35

Sanju wrote:They can built any number of airfields/alg etc, it is not going to change the lift capability, as explained ad nauseum on this thread.


PLAAF job is not do deep and heavy strikes. It is to keep IAF busy. And PLAAF has enough numbers to keep IAF busy. What they lack is airbases. If they have to do deep strikes, they will use H6 and Rockets.

If anybody believes that PLAAF doesn't have enough brains to figure out a workaround for operating at high altitude, then I have a white marble in Agra to sell.

You carry A2A missile and enough fuel on a longer runway to get airborne. Have airbases in the 200-300KM range from the border to reduce the need for air refueling. Have more airbases in Xinjiang at lower altitude. Deploy larger number of sqd to cover lack of loadouts. If one Rafale can carry 6 BVR, PLAAF will deploy 2 J10 with 3 BVR each.

This is exactly how PAF did on Feb 27. Large part of the package was to keep IAF busy, while only small part of them fired their standoff weapon. It doesn't require much to carry BVR/CCM.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RaviB » 24 Oct 2020 15:13

I don't understand why we are so focused on Ladakh. Why wouldn't the PLAAF attack in the North East? There are targets like Dibrugarh, there is Arunachal Pradesh, they have bases like Chengdu but airfields that are much, much closer and without a significant penalty, like Lijiang. The Chinese are convinced that the NE wants to break away from India, and they might think this would be a trigger.


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