India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1282
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Nihat » 25 Jan 2021 19:42

China will keep pushing for a quick win of some sort, just to show its audiance that they managed to grab something for all this wasting effort. An amicable settlement will be a huge loss of face for the president and the country and that too a second one, after doklam.

One of these minor incidents that China keeps playing up, is bound to result in a major escalation. I just hope the government does not buckle down when the fight is imposed upon us

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 416
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rajpa » 25 Jan 2021 20:46

It is time for us now to escalate this fake border war. Shoot some sugars at the border. Anyway the whole world is arraigned against Chin and will not take Indian response the wrong way. The Chins are not here to fight but to expand their borders by sneaking in like their whores in apartment buildings. The only way to drive them away is after a thorough spanking.

(It seems that the apartments that PLA have constructed outside of Arunachal is actually a bordello outside the town.)

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24264
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jan 2021 21:00

China even denies a clash took place ! - Straits Times
The Global Times, the official newspaper of China’s ruling Communist Party, asserted that no clash had taken place at Naku La.

“There is no record of this incident in the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) front-line patrol logs,” an article stated.

Prof Srikanth Kondapalli, a professor in Chinese studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University, said that the downplaying of the clash indicated a reluctance to open another front in Sikkim.

“Neither India nor China would want to escalate border troubles. The weather conditions are adverse at minus 40 deg C. The Chinese also have a constraint in that they don’t want to see any response on the border in the run-up to the 100th anniversary of the Communist Party,” said Prof Kondapalli, referring to a key event in China this July.

But Prof Brahma Chellaney, a professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policy Research, a New Delhi based think tank, interpreted the Naku La clash as a fallout of Chinese expansionism.

“Tibet’s frontier with northern Sikkim used to be the only section of the border with India that China didn’t dispute,” he said.

“But the latest border clash is a reminder that China’s increasing expansionism has created disputes even there, turning that peaceful section into a ‘hot’ border.”

pushkar.bhat
BRFite
Posts: 416
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pushkar.bhat » 25 Jan 2021 21:16

China is testing the waters. The ADIZ violations in the Taiwan straits as well as any clashes on our borders will be to test how the New Biden administration will react to their actions. Expect them to similarly posture in South China Sea and other flash points. If the US reacts the way the Trump admin reacted, Xi will know what he is against a bi-partisan policy with regards to the Indi-Pacific. Conversely if he finds more nuanced statements and reaction to the different situation, it will be read as a US policy which is more graded then they will accordingly decide their game plan.

Worst case for China will be for the USA to signal that it views all violations as equally severe and that the Indi-Pacific Policy against China is a Blunt instrument and not surgeons' scalpel. Expect a long drawn out tactical retreat by China if that happens.

Punjabi
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 53
Joined: 25 Mar 2020 05:10

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Punjabi » 25 Jan 2021 22:28

SSridhar wrote:China even denies a clash took place ! - Straits Times
The Global Times, the official newspaper of China’s ruling Communist Party, asserted that no clash had taken place at Naku La.

“There is no record of this incident in the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) front-line patrol logs,” an article stated.

Prof Srikanth Kondapalli, a professor in Chinese studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University, said that the downplaying of the clash indicated a reluctance to open another front in Sikkim.

“Neither India nor China would want to escalate border troubles. The weather conditions are adverse at minus 40 deg C. The Chinese also have a constraint in that they don’t want to see any response on the border in the run-up to the 100th anniversary of the Communist Party,” said Prof Kondapalli, referring to a key event in China this July.

But Prof Brahma Chellaney, a professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policy Research, a New Delhi based think tank, interpreted the Naku La clash as a fallout of Chinese expansionism.

“Tibet’s frontier with northern Sikkim used to be the only section of the border with India that China didn’t dispute,” he said.

“But the latest border clash is a reminder that China’s increasing expansionism has created disputes even there, turning that peaceful section into a ‘hot’ border.”


Nothing happened except some tree branches fell and some Crows' beaks got twisted!!...Perhaps they got their butteemoose whipped so hard that they don't even remember anything happening to them! Xinpees are fast becoming Pgglees!
I pray for safety of our Boys there.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55363
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2021 01:31

Col B. Santosh babu awarded Maha Vir Chakra(posthumous)

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1692350

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55363
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2021 01:34


AkshaySG
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 30 Jul 2020 08:51

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby AkshaySG » 26 Jan 2021 03:33

ramana wrote:Col B. Santosh babu awarded Maha Vir Chakra(posthumous)

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1692350


Great to see Galwan heroes being awarded for the bravery but I'm a little confused as to how the Army goes about determining if its a peacetime medal (Ashok ,Kirti etc ) and a wartime medal ( PVC,MVC etc ) , So while plenty of clashes against Pak in J&K have led to peacetime medals this one is regarded as wartime .

Maybe because the army sees this clash as more serious and wants to project it that way ?

ParGha
BRFite
Posts: 966
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 06:01

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ParGha » 26 Jan 2021 03:43

AkshaySG wrote:Great to see Galwan heroes being awarded for the bravery but I'm a little confused as to how the Army goes about determining if its a peacetime medal (Ashok ,Kirti etc ) and a wartime medal ( PVC,MVC etc ) , So while plenty of clashes against Pak in J&K have led to peacetime medals this one is regarded as wartime. Maybe because the army sees this clash as more serious and wants to project it that way ?


It depends on what Operation the event/action falls under. For example, awards under Operation Rakshak (J&K ops) are peacetime medals and awards under Operation Meghdoot (Siachen) are wartime medals.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4383
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 26 Jan 2021 21:28

Given today's hungama, we might see more trouble within the country and a ops by Pak/China during some future "protest".

Pak has a habit of spending lot of time watching our news channel and assume things are crazy in India.. and a time to carry out some trouble.

Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 895
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Atmavik » 31 Jan 2021 01:50

Ramping Up Air Assets To Counter Chinese Threat: India Looks East - Nitin Ghokle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsT-bcFesM

sreerudra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 70
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 09:20

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby sreerudra » 01 Feb 2021 09:55

https://apnews.com/article/aung-san-suu ... d19eac9cd1

<b>Myanmar military says it is taking control of the country</b>

Xigy in action while MOdi is busy with farmers?

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12753
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Feb 2021 13:52

sreerudra wrote:https://apnews.com/article/aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-dda3d013897e14d5d0bd44d19eac9cd1

<b>Myanmar military says it is taking control of the country</b>

Xigy in action while MOdi is busy with farmers?


But the Myanmar miltary is taking a big risk, the Biden Admin is not like the Trump Admin which has withdrawn from conflicts.

Cyrano
BRFite
Posts: 963
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 01 Feb 2021 16:43

Chinese submarine sailors report significant mental health problems in rare study

A Chinese ballistic missile submarine takes part in a military parade in the Yellow Sea in 2019.
Hong Kong (CNN)More than 1 in 5 sailors on Chinese submarines operating in the South China Sea reported mental health problems, according to a new study that provides a rare insight into the inner workings of one of the Chinese military's most guarded assets.

The research by China's Second Military Medical University and Navy Military Medical University, published in the British journal Military Medicine, showed submariners reported severe psychological problems at much higher rates compared to People's Liberation Army (PLA) forces as a whole.
"This study demonstrates for the first time that soldiers and officers in the submarine force in the South China Sea are facing mental health risks and suffering from serious psychological problems," the researchers concluded.

The study surveyed 580 male submariners in the PLA Navy's South China Sea fleet, with 511 of those returning complete responses. While the overall condition of submariners' mental health was only slightly worse than PLA troops in general, the research showed significantly worse problems among the sub force in four areas.
PLA Navy submariners showed higher rates of anxiety, phobias, paranoia and somatization -- where mental issues surface with physical symptoms -- than among Chinese troops overall, the study found.

Conditions and the military situation in the South China Sea exacerbate the problems, the researchers said.
South China Sea conditions

The South China Sea has become a hotspot for military tensions in recent years. Beijing claims almost all of the 1.3 million square mile South China Sea, and since 2014 it has built up tiny reefs and sandbars into man-made artificial islands, fortified with missiles, runways and weapons systems -- antagonizing regional governments with overlapping claims. Washington doesn't recognize those claims and regularly sends US warships and military aircraft through the region. China in response has increased military maneuvers in the region, which means submarines can spend two to three months submerged in tight, noisy confines that lead to sleep deprivation among submariners, the researchers said. "The physically unfriendly environment means that submariners are not only living in an isolated, constantly closed environment, but they also sleep in a cabin that is exposed to excessive noise," the study said.

Constant exposure to artificial light can also lead to mental problems, the researchers said.
The researchers found submariners with college or post-graduate degrees suffered more mental problems than those with lower levels of education. They suggested two reasons for this: The highly educated have no way to relieve psychological pressures in their isolated environment and long for "freedom and integration into society."
The researchers also said the problems were more pronounced among those on nuclear-powered submarines versus those that were conventionally powered. Not only do complex nuclear-powered submarines require better educated personnel, those aboard them tend to worry more about accidents and the effect of radiation on their health, the researchers said.

Although the mental health of submariners has been explored in Western navies, the researchers said few studies have been published from non-English speaking countries.

They said they hoped the study could be a baseline for China to monitor the mental health of its submariners and suggested expanding the research to the entire PLA Navy submarine fleet. China has a fleet of at least 60 submarines, according to a 2019 report from the Washington-based Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI). At least 10 of those are nuclear-powered.

But the country is in the midst of an ambitious shipbuilding program of which submarines play an important part. The US Office of Naval Intelligence expects the PLA Navy submarine force to increase by 16 nuclear-powered vessels in the next decade, according to a Congressional Research Service report from March 2020.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3738
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Feb 2021 18:30

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 95774.html
yeh nahin sudharenge

According to national security planners, the PLA is undertaking fresh deployment and relocation of both troops and heavy equipment in all the three sectors with fresh constructions of revetments in finger area of Pangong Tso.
Although India and China have completed nine rounds of military talks on disengagement in the Eastern Ladakh theatre, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is showing no signs of de-escalation along the 3,488-km Line of Actual Control (LAC), reinforcing artillery guns, self-propelled howitzers and surface-to-missile units in Tibet.


According to Indian national security planners, the PLA is engaged in fresh deployment and relocation of both troops and heavy military equipment in all the three sectors with fresh constructions of revetments (sloped protection against ordnance) in the finger areas of Pangong Tso.

There is evidence with South Block to indicate fresh deployment of 35 heavy military vehicles and four 155 mm PLZ 83 self-propelled howitzers in sheds around the Shiquanhe PLA camp, just 82 kilometres from the LAC across Chumar in Eastern Ladakh.

Additional deployment of vehicles, heavy equipment and new construction work was observed last month near the Rudok surveillance facility, 90 km from the LAC, with four new large sheds and partition quarters for troops. Both Rudok and Shiquanhe are in the occupied Aksai Chin area.


According to Indian army commanders, there has been a marginal increase, new revetments and relocation of deployments between finger four and finger seven on the north bank of Pangong Tso. It was the Chinese PLA’s aggression on finger the 4 mountainous spur on the northern banks of Pangong Tso on May 5, 2020 that led to escalation of military tensions along the LAC.

While induction of 20 military vehicles and equipment has been nobserved around the Piue radar site, 16 km from the LAC, the PLA is also strengthening positions around Spanggur Tso with induction of more firepower and troops in late December 2020.

“The PLA is strengthening all along the 1,597-km LAC in Ladakh with a view for long-term deployments. The fortifications around Spanggur Tso are designed to support Moldo Garrison in Chushul area with Indian Army dominating heights in Kailash Ranges,” said an official in the know of the military deployments.


The PLA has also moved a surface-to-air missile (SAM) unit near the PLA camp in Lhasa, 228 km from the Indian border, to protect the one-time seat of 14th Dalai Lama with some 30 vehicles moving the military equipment under camouflage in the second half of January 2021.

Fearing an Indian Air Force (IAF) attack in Tibet’s hinterland, the PLA has deployed SAM units and anti-aircraft guns around all major towns along the LAC.

While a new military shelter comprising 4-5 barracks has been observed across the Lipulekh pass in the middle sector, the presence of PHL-03 multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRLs) at Rubinkha PLA camp just 23 km from the India-China-Bhutan tri-junction is a matter of serious concern because PLA is continuing its push in the strategic area. The PHL-03 MBRLs is a Chinese copy of the Russian Smerch rocket system with the Indian Army

they are digging in/preparing for war.

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 416
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rajpa » 08 Feb 2021 21:29


Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3455
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Kakkaji » 08 Feb 2021 22:02

Eastern Ladakh row: Government says emergency procurement of certain arms, equipments undertaken

NEW DELHI: Emergency procurement of certain arms and equipment have been undertaken by the armed forces to beef up combat potential in view of the eastern Ladakh border standoff, the government said in Rajya Sabha on Monday. Minister of State for Defence Shripad Naik said the armed forces are procuring terrain and weather specific equipment to thwart the likely threat from India's "Northern adversary", in a clear reference to China.

"On the basis of the threat perception and technology available, the armed forces are procuring terrain and weather specific equipment to thwart the likely threat from our Northern adversary," he said in a written reply.

"In the current standoff, emergency procurement for certain arms and equipment have been undertaken by the armed forces to beef up their combat potential," Naik said.

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3455
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Kakkaji » 08 Feb 2021 22:13

Amid faceoff, big boost for LAC surveillance

NEW DELHI: India is going in for a major upgrade of surveillance capabilities along the northern borders with China through an array of drones, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare equipment to keep tabs on the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in real-time and strengthen measures to detect intrusions.

"The LAC cannot be continuously manned like the 778-km line of control (LoC) with Pakistan. Therefore, the urgent need to crank up the existing surveillance capabilities for gap-free coverage and real-time information along the LAC," said a defence ministry source.

The acquisition and induction plans range from mini-drones for high-altitude areas and ultra-long-range surveillance cameras to MALE (medium-altitude long-endurance) and HALE (high-altitude long-endurance) remotely-piloted aircraft systems, said the MoD sources.

There is also a project simultaneously underway to lease three to four satellite communication-enabled Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) from Israel through an inter-governmental agreement for the Army, apart from the acquisition of additional Harop kamikaze attack drones for the IAF.

The DRDO, in turn, has almost finished developing a border observation and surveillance system (BOSS), with a well-integrated system of multiple sensors, for manned as well as unmanned areas of the LAC, said the sources.

The Army also inked a 140 crore deal with an Indian firm last month for advanced versions of "Switch" drones, which are small enough to be used by infantry soldiers and special forces deployed in high-altitude areas like Ladakh.

"Induction of such drones for surveillance at the tactical level will give a clear operational picture to battalion commanders and troops on the ground," said a source.

Officials say the way China has continued to create new military infrastructure as well as reinforce PLA positions all along the LAC, from eastern Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh, points to the prospect of "a hot summer" again this year.

shaun
BRFite
Posts: 1216
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby shaun » 08 Feb 2021 23:21


rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 416
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rajpa » 09 Feb 2021 09:48


What is required is not surveillance, but policy. When our troops on the ground are stopped from patrolling by the Sugars, it is not the sensors but the action that is missing.
Last edited by Rakesh on 10 Feb 2021 02:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do NOT quote the entire post when replying. Post Edited.

Chinmay
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 07:25

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Chinmay » 09 Feb 2021 21:42

Outgoing NSC Director Lisa Curis's interview

This is the bit that stood out

"I think the China-India border crisis demonstrated to India that the U.S. is a reliable partner. The U.S. expedited delivery of cold weather gear to Indian forces along the disputed border for the winter. We also delivered 2 MQ-9 armed predators to India. We stood with India as it faced this aggression along its borders. This demonstrated that the U.S. was reliable. In a way, China’s own aggressive behavior reinforced for India the need to build the U.S.-India relationship and move forward with Quad engagement."


India now operates armed Reapers!

rpartha
BRFite
Posts: 136
Joined: 24 Sep 2016 00:04

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rpartha » 10 Feb 2021 01:21

^^ yes... Navy using it...

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11021
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2021 01:44

At the risk of derailing this thread, the outgoing NSC is wrong. That is *NOT* the definition of reliability.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55363
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 10 Feb 2021 10:20

Rakesh, Its true US delivered lot of needed stuff urgently as per need. So that part is correct.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55363
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 10 Feb 2021 10:21

Group Captain Hari Nair
Are you following the reports?

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 284
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Hari Nair » 10 Feb 2021 15:43

Yes Sir, I am.
The campaign season is still a few months away and the build-up does not portend well.

In the larger context:
An article by a former Chief of Staff Eastern Command - worth a read:
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/if-you-know-your-enemy-why-china-did-what-it-did-in-ladakh/

Well, the article focuses mainly on our shortcomings and theorises that the Chinese's intricate plans are always a step ahead of ours. That may not necessarily be true as of now.

He makes a very moot point :
"The latest report of PLA withdrawing 10,000 troops from depth areas/training areas may just be bait. In this peak period of winter with the three main Chinese national highways to Tibet (Western G219, Central G109 and Eastern G318) remain closed and only airlift and the railway options are thus available. Deinducting 10,000 troops with their weapons and equipment will be a major exercise in itself and will go on for the next two months. If the PLA is doing so it is more due to medical and logistical problems. It may even be that the PLA is turning round units which have completed the last one year in Ladakh/Tibet with fresh forces mobilised under orders of the TMO of 2021. It surely is not any change of heart. In fact, in the first place, all the tents and accommodation that had been built up to house troops in Ladakh and western TAR may have been just empty structures with no one using them!! India should not get lulled and lower its guard. Chinese are past masters in deception, cunning and guile while Indians, in comparison, are gullible straight jacketed linear thinking ‘simpletons’! It reminds one of an astute commander’s (Napoleon) perspicacious view – ‘Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake!!’ Is China luring India into making the mistake again?"

We (the powers that be) indeed appear to have been linear thinking simpletons, especially in the long term Chinese context.

Events at the start of the campaign season may be dictated by the leanings of the US Biden administration. As of now, it appears the signs are either not very clear, or are ambivalent.

The farmer's agitation card is also being played as an internal distraction, with generous amounts of funds being channelled through their attack dog Porkis and those useful idiots - the Canadians. Its not gaining traction, unfortunately for the Superior Han Thinkers..

Off Topic : (I could not find a current thread for Khalistan and the Canadian connection to post this):
There is an excellent clip on Zee News today which suggests that Trudeau could make Khalistan come true - just sign away some territory in Canada. Its a total reversal of the game and some very interesting statistics have been provided. Since the Canadians insist on keeping snakes in their own front-yard for their domestic politics, its a not-so-subtle hint that the snakes could possibly turn on them, perhaps with some outside nudging....

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1282
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Nihat » 10 Feb 2021 18:01

Seems disengagement is underway for armoured vehicles on both banks of the lake simultaneously.

Keeping fingers crossed and I'm sure the administration is keeping a hawk eye on those snake oil merchants

bharathp
BRFite
Posts: 176
Joined: 24 Jul 2017 03:44

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby bharathp » 11 Feb 2021 11:17

rajnath singh giving statement on the LAC situation right now.
rajnath saying:
- PM laid the base for talks that not even 1 inch is to be given to chinese
- many rounds of talks went on to find mutually acceptable solution
- 9 rounds at commander level
- china has agreed disengagement on pangong so north and south bank
- from pangong lake after 48 hours we will talk about other areas
- as per disengagement laws - phased, verified ways
- going back beyond finger 8
- india to be continue to have permanent base at finger 3
- any constructions by both sides since april 2020 wil be removed
- patrolling will only be started when on armed as well as diplomatic means will come to an agreement - started talks on these on north and south pangong tso lakes
- rajnath says India has not lost anything in this deal
- says there are still outstanding issues.
- both sides agree in principle that there should be full disengagement
- asking the entire house to recognize the armed forces valor

bharathp
BRFite
Posts: 176
Joined: 24 Jul 2017 03:44

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby bharathp » 11 Feb 2021 12:01


Sonugn
BRFite
Posts: 398
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 12:03
Location: DeceptyKon Workshop

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sonugn » 11 Feb 2021 12:15

bharathp wrote:rajnath singh giving statement on the LAC situation right now.
rajnath saying:
- PM laid the base for talks that not even 1 inch is to be given to chinese
- many rounds of talks went on to find mutually acceptable solution
- 9 rounds at commander level
- china has agreed disengagement on pangong so north and south bank
- from pangong lake after 48 hours we will talk about other areas
- as per disengagement laws - phased, verified ways
- going back beyond finger 8
- india to be continue to have permanent base at finger 3
- any constructions by both sides since april 2020 wil be removed
- patrolling will only be started when on armed as well as diplomatic means will come to an agreement - started talks on these on north and south pangong tso lakes
- rajnath says India has not lost anything in this deal
- says there are still outstanding issues.
- both sides agree in principle that there should be full disengagement
- asking the entire house to recognize the armed forces valor


any constructions by both sides since april 2020 wil be removed
This means that peaks occupied at South bank/Kailash & subsequent bunkers at these places will also have to go. Has DM mentioned anything regarding this?

bharathp
BRFite
Posts: 176
Joined: 24 Jul 2017 03:44

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby bharathp » 11 Feb 2021 12:30

Sonugn wrote:
any constructions by both sides since april 2020 wil be removed
This means that peaks occupied at South bank/Kailash & subsequent bunkers at these places will also have to go. Has DM mentioned anything regarding this?

nothing on kailash range. i have attached the youtube link to the same speech.

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby manjgu » 11 Feb 2021 12:47

IF South bank is referred then its about kailash range...

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12753
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Feb 2021 13:03

In South Bank- Both sides are moving Back tanks, I dont think we are giving up on the Hard won Kailash range posts.

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1329
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RKumar » 11 Feb 2021 18:19

Aditya_V wrote:In South Bank- Both sides are moving Back tanks, I dont think we are giving up on the Hard won Kailash range posts.


We will not vacate Kailash ranges now. These will be linked to other areas where Chinese have blocked our access. But we need to extra careful during every step while dealing with backstabbers. We know their capabilities at a high level. They are doing somethings in the background and we are also doing the same - to the best of our abilities.

Sheping is focused on SCS and wanted to minimize our involvement. But their actions on the border had the opposite effect - we were hesitant to join the quad and now we are in the centre of it. We have been dragged into the middle of their mess - thanks to Chinese policy and PLA behaviour. We were focused on our economic growth while ignoring military might. Thanks to Xi - it got the required focus and it will have long term effects on their client states as well as on them. Now PLA has to put soldiers on the Indian border as we will proactively fill the vacuum on our lands.

Based on my current personal assessment like many here - there will be a showdown and it is a matter of time. I sincerely wish and hope - there is no unwanted incident on our borders.

Shanmukh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2988
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Shanmukh » 11 Feb 2021 18:33

Brahma Chellaney says this:
FOLLY: Defense minister confirms India is surrendering its sole bargaining chip by vacating the Kailash Range heights as part of a narrow deal with China limited to the Pangong Lake's south and north banks. He says all other issues will be taken up later.

https://twitter.com/Chellaney/status/13 ... 4584396803

I have a couple of questions. Why are we giving up on the Depsang issue? Why is it not part of the comprehensive deal, which we were insisting on? And are we really giving up the Kailash range?

Cyrano
BRFite
Posts: 963
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 11 Feb 2021 22:23

I would have liked Chinese Def Minister to make a statement first, and if his statement is as per what was agreed, then Indian Def Minister confirm the same, or refute/correct. Now Rajnath has made a statement first, if PLA doesnt follow through or Chinese DM says something else, it will lead to all sorts of confusion and make GoI look inept.

Why did Rajnath hurry to make a statement and draw a line in the sand, knowing that Chinese will definitely try to do something different to discredit him? IMO he should have waited a bit longer to get the other side to come out publicly first. Or both sides provide a joint update on the 8 point method or whatever that was put out after some parleys in Russia a few months ago.

I'm not getting a good feeling on this turn of events, with spring thaws just a couple of months away. Whats the hurry?!

Cyrano
BRFite
Posts: 963
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 11 Feb 2021 22:27

Kailash Range heights are NOT the same as Pangong Lake's south and north banks, they are several kms away, to the east of Spangur gap, and our positions there are on our side of LAC, in an undisputed zone.

Is Brahma Chellany preempting something?

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1329
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby RKumar » 11 Feb 2021 23:47

Cyrano wrote:I would have liked Chinese Def Minister to make a statement first, and if his statement is as per what was agreed, then Indian Def Minister confirm the same, or refute/correct. Now Rajnath has made a statement first, if PLA doesnt follow through or Chinese DM says something else, it will lead to all sorts of confusion and make GoI look inept.

Why did Rajnath hurry to make a statement and draw a line in the sand, knowing that Chinese will definitely try to do something different to discredit him? IMO he should have waited a bit longer to get the other side to come out publicly first. Or both sides provide a joint update on the 8 point method or whatever that was put out after some parleys in Russia a few months ago.

I'm not getting a good feeling on this turn of events, with spring thaws just a couple of months away. Whats the hurry?!


It is a strength of the democracy, that we put the things as they are on the table and let opposition, the mango man questions it. In China, govt has no questionability of their actions - no one dares to ask a question to Xi and the gang. Their FM, read out 3 min statement without providing any insight - accept it at face value or leave it. There is no room for debate.

I dont have to explain - how it works in India :mrgreen:

Bart S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2553
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Bart S » 11 Feb 2021 23:54

Cyrano wrote:Kailash Range heights are NOT the same as Pangong Lake's south and north banks, they are several kms away, to the east of Spangur gap, and our positions there are on our side of LAC, in an undisputed zone.

Is Brahma Chellany preempting something?


But isn't that (Spangur Gap) where the tanks were facing off? Visuals showed the tanks disengaging, so there does seem to be something going on in that area.

Cyrano
BRFite
Posts: 963
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Cyrano » 12 Feb 2021 01:52

Note the discussion on Point 3 of RM's statement from 25:00 onwards:


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Thakur_B and 32 guests