India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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yensoy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by yensoy »

I see HAL as a designer and integrator, with most of the assemblies and sub-assemblies being put together (i.e. manufactured) by private players. This is the way it should be. The final stamp on the product has to be from HAL. It is a HAL branded product, with HAL owning design, engineering, quality control and customer support.

I doubt HAL is as dysfunctional as it is made out to be. I am sure there is a huge scope for improvement/corporatization, goal & productivity based incentives etc. But remember, HAL has been steadily and silently delivering the rotocraft line, which is based on its design and continuous improvements. So to paint HAL with a broad brush would be unfair.

If HAL hands over Tejas to a private unit, it should be a purely commercial deal based on the ability of the private player to produce and support at a cost/quality level superior to HAL, and with a means for HAL to continue to derive operational experience for future projects by secondment of staff.
SriKumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SriKumar »

g.sarkar wrote:https://www.voanews.com/a/india-china-l ... 67352.html
India Prepares for Long Haul on China Border Dispute
Anjana Pasricha, October 12, 2021

India’s worries center on the massive infrastructure that China is building on its side.
“The Chinese are sharply raising their military capability in Tibet along the Indian border, upgrading airfields, constructing residential facilities, helipads, dumps for ammunition, and other military infrastructure,” said Manoj Joshi, distinguished fellow at New Delhi’s Observer Research Foundation. “So, that is a real challenge for the Indian army.”
The build-up by the Chinese side means “they are there to stay,” India’s Army Chief M. M. Naravane said on Saturday.
Poster Chola had warned about this a couple of years ago. Time favors China's infrastructure machine- civil infra and military hardware production. The writing's on the wall with regard to military hardware production ramp-up in China. Unless desi hardware production ramps up, the parity will get worse in future- no doubt about this. High altitude on the TIbetian side can help only that much. Hardware wise, after some point, quantity will start to have an effect, even if the quality is indifferent.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by kumarn »

williams wrote:
yensoy wrote: I see where you are going. So GoI orders from HAL, drives up the market price and sells some part of its ownership to recoup the cost of the order? Brilliant strategy.
That tool is always there but who is going to bell the cat. It is political suicide. Let me explain. If you are selling private equity you need to perform. That means no wastage of resources and profitability. Which then means performance based management. Which means many HAL employees won't like it. Followed by strikes, followed by opposition making hay out of it. Followed by commie media supporting it. Followed by BeeBeeSea and foreign media jokers asking for regime change. I am telling you these internal enemies are worse than the Chinese and Pakis.

I think the best plan will be to reduce the scope of HAL and bring in more new private players. Let the private players create separate assembly lines with direct inputs from DRDO/ADA. Private players can pull the performers out of these PSUs. Leave the PSUs alone and slowly silently kill them.
HAL was not always a PSU, just like Air India.
kumarn
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by kumarn »

yensoy wrote:
kumarn wrote:A 25k crore order to HAL will increase its market capitalisation by 25k crore. Someone in GOI needs to be a bit smarter than they are.
I see where you are going. So GoI orders from HAL, drives up the market price and sells some part of its ownership to recoup the cost of the order? Brilliant strategy.
Recouping only a part of it this way should be good enough. The budgetary stress is right now and it's not like all the order amount is going to be paid upfront.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

shyamd wrote:
shyamd wrote:x post

Latest SitRep 9 Sept 21

- GOI is implementing a strategy & plan on Afghanistan that was created earlier this year. Plan was in process of being updated during collapse.
....
- Intel assessment is that TSPA will turn up temperature in LoC and J&K very soon... There is a gradual redeployment of terror groups towards LoC (with Afghans being spotted).
- Meet held between PM, Def min, Home min yesterday. Number of options have been proposed by the Nat Sec (Defence is an element of Nat Sec) team with dealing with Afghan situation... Range of issues are being managed including how GOI will secure it's interest (i.e. make sure Afghan soil is not used for terrorism which is the top priority).

- My view: Armed forces (IA/IAF) will be making preparations for deployment to somewhere in central asia in coalition with regional powers (if green light provided). I suspect Brigade level operation with some air cover. Primary task will be border security.
Update:
The diplomatic position of Russia, India and others is that if Afghan soil is used to launch terror attacks - ISI/TSPA will be held responsible as they now own the problem of Afghanistan. This has been communicated to TSPA via multiple emissaries.
Military operations is still on the cards.
shyamd wrote:Update on 22nd Sept
In Uri, search operation for militants who slipped in through LoC enters 3rd day
- With the infiltration attempts (like above) and intel of increased number of terrorists at launchpads GOI nat sec establishment will green light some major action very soon (probably after PM US visit).
- Recon spotting some PLA officers at some TSPA positions interacting with local guides
- PLA conducting night drills across LAC
I had warned some time ago of GOI major action on LoC noted above in response to Intel/recon re: build up at launchpads in PoK.

GOI Nat Sec establishment was very close to authorising but stopped in last moment, now I can reveal why....

India invites regional powers, including Pakistan, to NSAs meet on Afghanistan
Two months after the Taliban takeover of Kabul, New Delhi is planning to engage regional powers on the future of Afghanistan. It is sending an official team to attend the Moscow process of talks on October 20 that will include the Taliban government’s Deputy Prime Minister. New Delhi has also invited regional National Security Advisers to Delhi for a meeting in November, including Pakistan's NSA Moeed Yusuf, in a rare departure from otherwise bitter bilateral ties.

According to sources, New Delhi has reached out to countries that participated in the Iran-plus six-nation “Regional Security Dialogue” in Tehran- Iran, Russia, China, Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan for the meeting to be chaired by National Security Advisor Ajit Doval. A Pakistani official confirmed receiving the invitation, but said a decision on participation was yet to be taken.

SCO-RATS meeting
The invitation to Pakistan for a multilateral format meeting follows weeks after a three-member Indian delegation participated in the Regional Anti-Terror Mechanism meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO-RATS) in Pakistan’s Pabbi in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

In another development, Lok Sabha Speaker Om Birla included Pakistan’s Senate Chairperson in an invitation to parliamentary leaders of Commonwealth nations for the centennial celebration of the creation of the Public Accounts Committee of Parliament in early December. According to a number of verified reports, which the government has not denied, Mr. Doval has led a series of back-channel consultations with Pakistani military and security officials over the past year.

A senior official told The Hindu that the invite to Pakistan comes amidst pressing need for discussions on terrorism and trans-national security emanating from the developments in Afghanistan and a surge in violent attacks inside that country, including two suicide bombings of mosques in Kunduz and Kandahar.

In addition, India wants to ensure that the issue of recognition of the Taliban government, which Pakistan has been pressing for, is only decided after the Taliban government gives assurances on terrorism, inclusivity in government and rights of women and minorities.

The Indian initiative, which comes after close consultations with Moscow, is significant given that thus far, the government has not announced any monetary or food aid for Afghanistan. Nor has it opened the door for Afghan refugees to India since the Taliban takeover.

Modi for global aid
However, speaking at the G-20 extraordinary conference on October 12, Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a strong pitch for international assistance for Afghanistan.

“The Prime Minister conveyed that every Indian feels the pain of Afghan people facing hunger and malnutrition. He emphasised the need for the international community to ensure that Afghanistan has immediate and unhindered access to humanitarian assistance,” an Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) statement said.

The MEA has confirmed that India will send a senior official to the Moscow format conference on Wednesday, which includes delegations from Afghanistan, India, Iran, China and Pakistan. Taliban officials announced that a delegation led by its Deputy Prime Minister Abdul Salam Hanafi would attend the meeting.

The Moscow meet will be the first time India is sending an official to attend a conference that includes the Taliban, after the fall of Kabul on August 15. The acceptance is significant because the SAARC Foreign Minister’s conference, due to be held in September on the sidelines of the UNGA this year, was put off, reportedly due to India’s objections to Pakistan’s demand to allow a Taliban representative attend the meeting on Afghanistan’s behalf.

Although no foreign government has recognised the Taliban as the official government, several, including India are in talks with them, mainly through their political office in Doha, while at least six nations, including Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey and Qatar maintain embassies in Kabul.

Mr. Hanafi will travel to Moscow next week, and went on a one-day trip to Uzbekistan on Saturday to “discuss trade and transit relations”, Taliban’s Deputy Minister for Information and Broadcasting Zabihullah Mujahid said in tweets.
GOI moves in Tajikistan/possible brigade deployment have forced TSPA to the table and I think some positive exchanges between TSPA and GOI have taken place via emissaries. Next emissary is Iran FM due in Delhi soon.

Now coming to present events on LoC (particularly today - I believe TSPA are trying to negotiate from point of strength and show that they are capable of changing security situation in J&K.
nam
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

This is typical of GoI. Get sucked in to Pak aman asha cycle and when a terror attack happens, Pak blames it on "non-state" actor, which it doesn't have control on :roll:

Then some nation acts as a go between and the aman asha cycle repeats. Now I am convinced there was a track 2 going on before the Pulwama attack. And the response was dialed down to prevent stopping the track 2.
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

TSPA and Afghan Taleb are bracing for new wave of attacks by ISIS-K and TTP targeting them. Both parties on alert looking for those cells. Complaints being made to international intel community saying RAW is the one responsible
Paul
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Paul »

This is typical of GoI. Get sucked in to Pak aman asha cycle and when a terror attack happens, Pak blames it on "non-state" actor, which it doesn't have control on :roll:

Then some nation acts as a go between and the aman asha cycle repeats. Now I am convinced there was a track 2 going on before the Pulwama attack. And the response was dialed down to prevent stopping the track 2.
Is this post of any value to this thread?
Cyrano
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cyrano »

Two months after the Taliban takeover of Kabul, New Delhi is planning to engage regional powers on the future of Afghanistan.
We are at least six months late on this, lulled into the comfort of inaction by US distracting us with Quad and LOC ceasefire. What a country's leader says publicly shows intent, shapes perceptions and becomes a factor to consider.

But if its just repeating "we are concerned by terrorism etc..." it accomplishes none of the above. Just "charvita charvanam". Emboldens adversaries and makes allies, if any, nervous. Sigh!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Barath »

Cyrano wrote:
Two months after the Taliban takeover of Kabul, New Delhi is planning to engage regional powers on the future of Afghanistan.
We are at least six months late on this,
It's not that there were no thoughts of reaching out before. eg https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 44063.html https://www.dw.com/en/what-can-india-ga ... a-57903138 https://theprint.in/opinion/indian-expe ... hy/701004/ https://www.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 142883.ece

It is that the future of Afghanistan then was the Taliban, as evinced by US negotiation under Trump, there was little clarity among others or even in India as to timeline, purpose etc . And later, India was kept out of some of discussions. When the Taliban and other regional powers are not very interested in India having a say in Afghanistan, it is difficult to be relevant. And as you rightly point out, what you have to say matters even today Just muttering terrorism might find little traction. And India definitely doesn't have the appetite for the degree of nation building Afghanistan needs,
Last edited by Barath on 19 Oct 2021 08:38, edited 2 times in total.
Barath
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Barath »

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 047037.cms

Bhutan, China sign bilateral pact on 3 step roadmap for border talks, India takes cautious note. Sources say this does not include trijunction which would require consultation with India, Bhutan and China.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by NRao »

First glove being taken off?

https://mobile.twitter.com/neeraj_rajpu ... 1286262784 ----->
India wants peace and thus has defensive policy but if #China continue to keep LAC active we can have 'aggresive posture' too: Lt Gen Manoj Pande,
@easterncomd Commander
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/satelli ... -in-ladakh

Mig-29s deployed at Thoise airbase. Good to see hardened air shelters. Thoise also hosts the 116 Rudra unit. Read the words in the citation below, given to this heli unit in May 2020. Very, very interesting!
In the citation, the IAF said that in May 2020, “after the Galwan skirmish, the unit was deployed for offensive operations at a high-altitude airfield in the Ladakh area” and “quickly established the first-ever high-altitude Attack Helicopter Detachment in the region and executed day and night operations, including air-to-ground weapons delivery at high altitudes”.
Barath
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Barath »

https://theprint.in/defence/army-bets-o ... ioNews&amp

Technology over asking for more boots on ground. Just the start, if they have the mind and the will to do it
Prem Kumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

While its good news that the Army Aviation Corps has taken over the integrated surveillance function, they lack anti-tank missiles for their Rudras & are moving glacially on LCH induction.

God alone knows when the Rudras @ the LAC will be armed with Helinas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_P »

Non-lethal weapons project by/for the Army.

Love the symbolic Trishul :D

shravanp
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shravanp »

Manish_P wrote:Non-lethal weapons project by/for the Army.

Love the symbolic Trishul :D

removed youtube

I think we need these weapons on 0.5 front as well. In fact, we may need them in thousands.
Manish_P
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_P »

I concur.. in the hundreds of thousands

Am waiting for the libtards to wail on MSM and SM about the hinduvta-isation of the forces :lol:
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Larry Walker »

These non-lethals can be given to CPF's and RAF's - LAC is now even more heavily militarized as compared to LOC. Not sure on what our jurnos smoke to publish this meme as some worthy news.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vivek K »

Prem Kumar wrote:While its good news that the Army Aviation Corps has taken over the integrated surveillance function, they lack anti-tank missiles for their Rudras & are moving glacially on LCH induction.

God alone knows when the Rudras @ the LAC will be armed with Helinas
Once all money is spent on ordering imports, we will order some Helinas - enough to give the manufacturer a loss and then pay them a year after delivery!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

Army has called the journos for a visit to tawang. I feel PLA must have mobilised to carry out a similar adventure like last year in tawang.

The media display is to let the chini ambassador know that we r watching.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Ashokk »

Army ‘well-poised to hold the line’ against China in Arunachal
Image

TAWANG: The big guns are ready to boom if required in this high-altitude region. Ahead of the artillery and air defence gun positions, companies of acclimatised and well-armed soldiers guard the forbidding terrain along the frontier, where temperatures have already dipped to minus 3 to 5 degree Celsius.
Tawang is one of the most heavily defended regions along the 3,488-km LAC with China, which claims it as ‘South Tibet’ and could well be its next target after eastern Ladakh if things go south along the border. Senior officers say the Army is “well-poised to hold the line” with “a very high density of troops”, a robust surveillance mechanism and high-volume firepower ranging from the old but reliable 105mm field guns and 155mm Bofors to the spanking new M-777 ultra-light howitzers. There is a lot of ‘jugaad’ as well. The first regiment of the upgraded version of L-70 air defence guns of the 1960s vintage, backed by Flycatcher radars, have been deployed in Tawang forward locations.
“The legacy L-70 guns have been converted into potent weapons against low-level aerial threats like UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles), combat UAVs and attack helicopters,” said Captain Sariya Abbasi of the Army Air Defence at a forward location.
The range of the L-70 guns is restricted to just about 3.5-km but they could also be an effective counter against drone swarms in the future with their “predictive” firing. The long-range firepower comes from the Bofors (strike range of 24-30 km) and M-777 (30-35 km) howitzers.

Image
(Captain Sariya Abbasi briefs media personnel on the upgraded L-70 air defence guns deployed at forward location along the LAC in Tawang on Wednesday. The guns can take on drone swarms)

“The Bofors, which proved their worth in the 1999 Kargil conflict, have very good utility in high-altitude areas. The new M-777s are a big shot in arm because they can be swiftly transported by Chinook helicopters from one valley to another in Arunachal,” said an artillery officer, at a gun position located at an altitude of 13,500 feet in the Tawang sector.
As one gets closer to the LAC, the Army has established “integrated defended localities”, with a maze of fortified bunkers for infantry soldiers and artillery observation posts to direct fire on enemy tanks and other mechanised formations from the rear positions.
At one such locality on Assam Hill, barely 2.5-km from the frontier, Tawang Brigade commander Brigadier Vijay Jagtap said, “This is where battles take place and access is denied to enemies.”
An officer deployed there, Major Rufus Johnson, in turn, said, “Our defences are constructed in such a manner that from wherever the enemy attacks, it will be thwarted. This feature dominates access routes to the Tawang town, which is 35 km away by road. We will not allow anyone to progress ahead from here.” Tawang and Walong, incidentally, bore the brunt of the Chinese attack during the 1962 war in the eastern sector.
As the rickety road reaches up to the Bum La at an altitude of 14,980 feet, the border meeting point on the Chinese side is clearly visible, with a well-constructed road leading right up to it. China’s highways and metal roads lead right up to its forward posts. Though India has made a lot of progress in developing border infrastructure, it still has some way to go to catch up.
But the confidence is high. “Our aim is not to show aggression, handle situations in a mature manner, and maintain peace and tranquillity. Having said that, we are ensuring that our preparedness, our ability to react to any contingency remains very high,” said Eastern Army Command chief Lt-General Manoj Pande on Tuesday.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

https://theprint.in/defence/india-adds- ... gy/753957/

Lots of good details in this report. Example: in Ladakh, M777s range is 40 Km
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by wig »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... lac-327713

China’s unrelenting posture on the LAC, by Maj Gen Ashok K Mehta ( Retd)

excerpts

In plain language, Beijing is telling New Delhi to be content with what it has achieved. China is belittling India.

Statements from the Chinese foreign ministry have accused India of following a forward policy in an explicit invocation of 1962. The fresh face-offs in Barahoti, Uttarakhand, and Tawang, Arunachal Pradesh, in August-September reflect China’s unrelenting posture on the LAC, corresponding with India’s determination to strengthening its partnerships with Quad, Malabar exercises and other Indo-Pacific strategies.

The Army Chief, Gen Manoj Naravane, has confirmed Chinese troop, training and infrastructure build-up from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh and, strangely, he wondered why this was happening, adding, “I wish I knew.”

The military escalation is on despite two face-to-face meetings between Foreign Minister S Jaishankar and his counterpart Wang Yi during the SCO meetings in Dushanbe in July and September. Jaishankar described the India-China relations at the “lowest ebb.”


Clearly, China has closed the door on a full and complete return to peace and tranquility — a euphemism for the restoration of status quo ante, April 2020 — in clear violation of the five-point agreement reached between the two ministers at Moscow last September.

The PLA has succeeded in creating buffer zones in Galwan, Gogra and Pangong Tso on the Indian territory and blocked patrolling in Depsang between traditional Patrolling Points 10 to 13. Several grazing grounds in Gogra and Chushul have been lost to the Chinese. Some reports suggest that they are denying access to Indian patrols from PP 4 to PP 9 in the shadow of the Karakoram Pass.


China has continued to develop infrastructure at a hectic pace. In August, the G6 — the Beijing-to-Lhasa Expressway — was completed. In addition, the 295-km road from Lhasa to Nagque at 4,500-m height will connect the Central and Western Theatre Commands responsible for operations against India. In June, the railway between Lhasa and Nyinchi on the Arunachal Pradesh border was completed. President Xi Jinping, on his first visit to Tibet in July, travelled on it. Two live fire exercises were held in the Xinjiang military district in September. China has deployed its S400 air defence missile system in Demchok. These missiles will be effective against Indian aircraft, covering all of J&K, including Ladakh.

Xi is out to prove that the PLA is not allergic to high-altitude deployment, as Indian writers have indicated. However, it is true that the PLA was never deployed earlier along the LAC as the PLA and border guards used to patrol the LAC on horseback or vehicles. It is also true that at some places, troops were rotated every 10 days till their acclimatisation state improved.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by V_Raman »

If India cannot change what is ground position now - then another 62 has been done on India again without any fight. That is the sad reality.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by sankum »

Every body knows what is happening. It is for the government to decide were to hold the line and the response. No need for chest beating. India will never initiate conflict.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

What cannot be accomplished on the battlefield is never achieved at the negotiating table.

It's as if the PRC is challenging India to secure what we want at the battlefield.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by S_Madhukar »

Well the problem is this was the time to actually have a conflict with the world against Chinese, seeing that they are the ones who knocked down our door. IA is still in old tactics. All PLA is doing is creeping close enough to restrict our operations in a future conflict methodically. It is not like they will occupy Leh but inch close enough and build rear bases so that in case there is an open conflict we don't have time to react and we will essentially fight on our soil. Meanwhile their MIC will carry on improving and build enough for area denial. When will we get to use our gold plated equipment? :)
To be fair to the govt all we could do is hold the line in the current Covid situation but I hope MoD and IA have learnt enough to revisit their strategies and tactics specially now with NE in focus.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Larry Walker »

wig wrote:https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... lac-327713

China’s unrelenting posture on the LAC, by Maj Gen Ashok K Mehta ( Retd)

excerpts
The PLA has succeeded in creating buffer zones in Galwan, Gogra and Pangong Tso on the Indian territory and blocked patrolling in Depsang between traditional Patrolling Points 10 to 13. Several grazing grounds in Gogra and Chushul have been lost to the Chinese. Some reports suggest that they are denying access to Indian patrols from PP 4 to PP 9 in the shadow of the Karakoram Pass.
Is this true and factually correct ??
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

We can never know unless the government of India makes a statement. But any statement of denial will be disputed by people making claim of India losing ground to PRC.

In the absence of settlement of the boundary. Such psy-ops will be conducted routinely against Indian government.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Larry Walker »

The statement is from a retired Major General. If he is making false accusation - then he is actually denigrating the naam-namak-nishaan ethos. But anyways - I have been wondering what if PLA does a standoff attack across sectors once the mountain passes are un-passable ? This will deny IA the option of going kinetic where PLA will find it tough to counter - but PLA can very well afford throwing a huge quantum of fire on us from standoff distances and our response would not be that robust due to our shortcomings in WWR stocks and only handful of gold-plated shiny weapons.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

A former Colenel also made claims of clashes when there were none.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

If this article by Maj Gen Ashok K Mehta is true, we made a mistake by vacating the Kailash heights
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ritesh »

Aditya_V wrote:A former Colenel also made claims of clashes when there were none.
His brother was Vinod Mehta from India Today group... Hardly unbiased and trustworthy.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Lisa »

Aditya_V wrote:A former Colenel also made claims of clashes when there were none.
Also,

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/r ... 2019-08-17

"Six petitioners, including former Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak and Retired Major General Ashok Mehta, have moved the Supreme Court challenging the J&K Reorganisation Bill & the abrogation of Article 370."
fanne
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by fanne »

thanks for the find
Cain Marko
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cain Marko »

Larry Walker wrote:The statement is from a retired Major General. If he is making false accusation - then he is actually denigrating the naam-namak-nishaan ethos. But anyways - I have been wondering what if PLA does a standoff attack across sectors once the mountain passes are un-passable ? This will deny IA the option of going kinetic where PLA will find it tough to counter - but PLA can very well afford throwing a huge quantum of fire on us from standoff distances and our response would not be that robust due to our shortcomings in WWR stocks and only handful of gold-plated shiny weapons.
What do you mean stand off distances? Artillery fire or h6 launched cruise missiles. Both can be responded to..
suryag
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by suryag »

This Maj.Gen has an interesting past.
Aditya_V
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Just like some humans are considered superior and others as sub humans with terms such as intellectuals, civil society ( so rest of society is implied as " uncivil ") some veterans are superior humans to other veterans with other view points. When someone has posted fake news in the past some media houses have published false news, it's time thier news is projected as false till proven correct.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Deans »

suryag wrote:This Maj.Gen has an interesting past.
It's the same bunch of ex officers, with a political agenda, who trash India and the army at every opportunity.
Col. Ajai Shukla, Maj Gen Ashok Mehta, Lt Gen Panag, Adm Ramdas & Adm Arun Prakash.

The background of the army officers has been discussed earlier. The wife of Adm. Ramdas was `human rights campaigner' & head of Greenpeace
India. His daughter married a Pakistani and she is in a senior position in the Ford foundation. I think it was the Admiral himself who arranged for a carrier battle group to escort Rajiv Gandhi's Italian family, when holidaying in a restricted island. Adm. Arun Prakash's relative was indicted in the Navy war room spy case. Even in a liberal democracy, he would probably have faced a court martial.
Last edited by Deans on 23 Oct 2021 10:00, edited 1 time in total.
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