India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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williams
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by williams »

nam wrote:We had ONE golden opportunity to hammer every terror infra in Pak during Feb 2019. What did we do? We left 3 holes on a roof and till this day nobody is really sure what happened.

I am now fairly confident, there was back channel Track 2 going on in 2019 and GoI wanted to protect it by restricting our response. Pak has perfected the game of terror & track 2.
We'll terror infra is the Paki Army. We could've have done more to destroy their assets. Dismantling them is ideal, but can we do it without any impact on our economy and growth rate. So probably that is the calculation our folks are making and toning down the retaliation.
ChanakyaM
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ChanakyaM »

arshyam wrote:
great points
Last edited by Rakesh on 13 Sep 2021 04:06, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Don’t reply to long posts with one liners. Post Edited.
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Notice to all ex/servicemen and their family members - please turn your instagram account to private. Please pass the message on if you know any.

Threat perception has been raised. Some incident/intel has come in the last 24 hours.
Prem Kumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

Cyrano wrote: If and when India acts, Pakis will start waving the (dirty) bum bogey. India must have a RAW plan to deal with that (may be we already do) instead of A. imagining US has already nook-nuded Pak therefore its an empty threat (they could have refined more material) or B. hoping that US will step in to save the day by preventing material from falling into wrong hands or weapons mated with WHs
One thing that Balakot did was to strengthen our N-deterrence. It demonstrated enough political/military resolve & a touch of craziness, which is essential for deterrence.

Pakis know that if they try any dirty-nuke or nuke-accident in India, we will launch a full nuclear response. That is no longer a bluff they can call (which they could under all previous governments).

In fact, it is this very fear that we must exploit. To take back POK, if necessary by salami-slicing. Or as Gen Bakshi says, bomb the terror camps in POK pre-emptively, which seem to house 1000s of yahoos.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by sajaym »

Prem Kumar wrote: In fact, it is this very fear that we must exploit. To take back POK, if necessary by salami-slicing. Or as Gen Bakshi says, bomb the terror camps in POK pre-emptively, which seem to house 1000s of yahoos.
https://www.deccanherald.com/video/inte ... 30411.html

The perfect opportunity for this seems to be brewing up. Apparently, same kind of sentiment in POK as was in Bangladesh in '71. This is the right time for us to meddle there...

But just watch, there won't be a peep about this development from our government. Meanwhile, the pukis seem to be preparing a 'Khoon ki Diwali' for all of us. While our morons seem hell bent on saving cows & buffaloes!
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Rumor mill in corridors of power is that a GOI cyber offense operation resulted in lots of data on PRC 5th Gen a/c and other classified programs including those with TSP

———————

TTP rejected TSP amnesty offer. Looks like TSPA is taking some heavy beatings..
vijayk
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by vijayk »

shyamd wrote:Rumor mill in corridors of power is that a GOI cyber offense operation resulted in lots of data on PRC 5th Gen a/c and other classified programs including those with TSP..
8)
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by srin »

All-weather border outposts: Ministries in blame game as Ladakh project fails
At a time when Indian troops are still in a faceoff with the Chinese along the Line of Actual Control in eastern Ladakh, an infrastructure project for troops guarding the region has turned out to be a non-starter after five years of work and investment of crores of rupees.

And the failure of the project has also pitted two key ministries of the government — Ministry of Home Affairs and Ministry of Jal Shakti — against each other.
The project involved construction of over 40 integrated Border Outposts (BOPs) announced by the government in 2015. These BOPs were supposed to be the first of their kind in the region with freeze-proof toilets, running water and temperature maintained above 22 degree Celsius at all times.
The project was awarded to National Projects Construction Corporation (NPCC), a PSU under the Ministry of Jal Shakti. Five years later, and after spending about Rs 20 crore, the project has, for all practical purposes, been declared a failure by the ITBP.

Sources in the ITBP and the MHA said the BOP is unable to maintain temperatures of over 10-11 degree Celsius and the quality of construction is so poor that the 40-odd jawans staying in the BOP have begun to miss the insulated pre-fabricated huts where they lived earlier.
The MHA, sources said, is so unhappy that it has not only stopped part payment to the NPCC for the project, but is also thinking of dumping the project altogether.

The NPCC, on the other hand, has blamed the ITBP and the MHA for the failure of the project, claiming that withholding the payment has resulted in the sub-contractor concerned not maintaining the heating system and thereby negatively impacting the efficiency of the BOP.
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

IAF will be conducting a major show of force/demonstration over Dal lake to send message to Neighbors.
————————
Indian navy exercised with Egypt and Sudanese navy. Keeping eye on PLAN base in Djibouti.

UAE is building naval bases off coast of Yemen. Taiwan working with UAE on those bases and collaborating on PLAN.

——————————
IAF conducted first ever exercises with JASDF while all attention was on Afghan evacuation
sanjayc
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by sanjayc »

shyamd wrote:Rumor mill in corridors of power is that a GOI cyber offense operation resulted in lots of data on PRC 5th Gen a/c and other classified programs including those with TSP

———————

TTP rejected TSP amnesty offer. Looks like TSPA is taking some heavy beatings..

Here is the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew ... 4fd2e07009
Cyrano
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cyrano »

Can't make head or tail of that Forbes story:
Exodus, when asked by Five Eyes countries (an alliance of intelligence-sharing countries that includes the U.S., U.K., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) or their allies, will provide both information on a zero-day vulnerability and the software required to exploit it. But its main product is akin to a Facebook news feed of software vulnerabilities, sans exploits, for up to $250,000 a year. It’s marketed primarily as a tool for defenders, but customers can do what they want with the information on those Exodus zero days—ones that typically cover the most popular operating systems, from Windows to Google’s Android and Apple’s iOS.

That feed is what India bought and likely weaponized, says 37-year-old Exodus CEO and cofounder Logan Brown. He tells Forbes that, after an investigation, he believes India handpicked one of the Windows vulnerabilities from the feed—allowing deep access to Microsoft’s operating system—and Indian government personnel or a contractor adapted it for malicious means. India was subsequently cut off from buying new zero-day research from his company in April, says Brown, and it has worked with Microsoft to patch the vulnerabilities. The Indian use of his company’s research was beyond the pale, though Exodus doesn’t limit what customers do with its findings, Brown says, adding, “You can use it offensively if you want, but not if you’re going to be . . . shotgun blasting Pakistan and China. I don't want any part of that.” (The Indian embassy in London hadn’t responded to requests for comment.)

The company also looked at a second vulnerability Kaspersky had attributed to Moses, another flaw that allowed a hacker to get higher privileges on a Windows computer. It was not linked to any particular espionage campaign, but Brown confirms it was one of his company’s, adding that it would “make sense” that India or one of its contractors had weaponized that vulnerability, too.

But Exodus was right to cut off India, says Moussouris, and more onus should be on the buyers when it comes to preventing abuse. Brown says he’s only ever had to cut off one other customer, a French police agency, after an Exodus hack it used to target dark web child predators was exposed.
So FiveEyes using their feed to do whatever is OK, India using it against communist aggressor China or French police against pedophiles is not OK !?? :roll: :roll:
Prasad
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prasad »

The Chinese banned reporting zero day vulnerabilities to MS and other companies. Instead they are to be reported to Chinese authorities to be used as they see fit. India needs to do something similar. But babus need to pay an equal or more amount to finders. Will they? :)
Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

Oh yeah, India with its technical surveillance capacity needs to pay some western company to buy access to vulnerability of windows operating system.

This as likely as a finding still virgin retired practitioner of the world's oldest profession. After 30 years of her professional life.
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Update
In Uri, search operation for militants who slipped in through LoC enters 3rd day
- With the infiltration attempts (like above) and intel of increased number of terrorists at launchpads GOI nat sec establishment will green light some major action very soon (probably after PM US visit).
- Recon spotting some PLA officers at some TSPA positions interacting with local guides
- PLA conducting night drills across LAC
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

So inspite of a high alert of the troops and increased surveillance of the known gap areas (where there is no effective border fence) we still have successful infiltration into India by the Porkis. This is very disheartening. Cant we at least mine those areas where it is difficult to patrol or put up a fence?
ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ks_sachin »

Vips wrote:So inspite of a high alert of the troops and increased surveillance of the known gap areas (where there is no effective border fence) we still have successful infiltration into India by the Porkis. This is very disheartening. Cant we at least mine those areas where it is difficult to patrol or put up a fence?
It is also extremely difficult to mine....
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_Sharma »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 47947?s=19

TWITTER

@Sjha1618:
The great dikgajes do not realize that Gogra is not really the problem anymore. Chicom has already gone behind the LAC there & joint patrols are taking place. Apart from Depsang, it is Galwan which continues to be a problem where Chicom is still due west of a particular line.

PP-16 is firmly in Indian hands and that gives us some observation capability over PP-17 & 17A.
_________________
@Thedominar replies:
Galwan is mostly defensive for them & India holds the heights, which is probably why we don't hear much in the news about it. Depsang is the other way around.
______________

@Sjha1618:

India holds the heights west of the confluence. That is no advantage if you want the nallah. The situation is currently not good. Chicom can't come further forward, but that's about it. In Depsang, Chicom is threatening the bottle neck.
bharathp
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by bharathp »

Vips wrote:So inspite of a high alert of the troops and increased surveillance of the known gap areas (where there is no effective border fence) we still have successful infiltration into India by the Porkis. This is very disheartening. Cant we at least mine those areas where it is difficult to patrol or put up a fence?
cant mine there.. the snow, ice , rain + terrain moves the mines to unkwon locations and creates a headache
NRao
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by NRao »

Interesting investigative narrative on Doklam

A 3-D deep dive into India-China border
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Dexter »

bharathp wrote: cant mine there.. the snow, ice , rain + terrain moves the mines to unkwon locations and creates a headache
Can't we have a 2nd line of defence. A fence probably deeper inside Indian territory but in a feasible position to ensure that terrorists even if they can come in may be a few km but not more
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by S_Madhukar »

Makes me wonder if Eleven is emboldened now that Afpak is clear for Baki backside depth and this will be the start of slowly turning up the heat from the west and then as it boils launch from the east for a tadka claiming freedom fighters only - Almost 1999++ meaning 2 front but just under the temperature causing us to accommodate and adjust some more for a decisive advantage and settlement for the Sugars. They will not want to come out in the open aggressively but will let loose on the west and extract their pound of flesh
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vayutuvan »

Dexter wrote:Can't we have a 2nd line of defence. A fence probably deeper inside Indian territory but in a feasible position to ensure that terrorists even if they can come in may be a few km but not more
What about Indian citizens moving around freely? They have to carry papers to travel within India itself. Maybe entry/exit points between the outer and inner areas of the 2nd fence can be regulated. Military and COIN logistics will become a little more complicated.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cain Marko »

We want to set up mines and extra fences on Indian territory? :shock: This should be done on territory regained from PoK. Even if it is little at a time.

Gloves need to come off and it should be open season on all targets in PoK, and bordering AFPAK. They cannot be allowed to consolidate and feel safe Slowly, that airspace should be totally brought into Indian control. With time the land will follow.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

Vayutuvan wrote:
Dexter wrote:Can't we have a 2nd line of defence. A fence probably deeper inside Indian territory but in a feasible position to ensure that terrorists even if they can come in may be a few km but not more
What about Indian citizens moving around freely? They have to carry papers to travel within India itself. Maybe entry/exit points between the outer and inner areas of the 2nd fence can be regulated. Military and COIN logistics will become a little more complicated.
IMHO, this is already happening in some places where the fence is inside Indian territory the farmers need special pass to pass this fence to work on their land which is in between the fence and the Pakistani border.

Setting up a second line of defence is a good idea as the Porki's will not be able to think that just crossing the fence LOC or Border is enough to service the 72 sex starved mullahs in jannat. Their back side's can still be rendered useless for applying vaseline by the forces at the second line of defence.

Building an underground tunnel at the LOC/Border can defeat any security measure implemented by us and hence setting up a 2nd line of defence should be given a serious thought.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Dexter »

Vips wrote: Building an underground tunnel at the LOC/Border can defeat any security measure implemented by us and hence setting up a 2nd line of defence should be given a serious thought.
As per my understanding technology is now available to map underground tunnels via probably sonar and is also currently used for that purpose so does look like a threat that can be handled

The 2nd line will ensure that any area which cannot be fenced is not an opportunity for the adversary. As much as Jingos like yours truly prefer, putting a fence in PoK is not an immediate option
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by vijayk »



Is this reality or just ego boosting?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Sonugn »

Around 100 Chinese with with 50 horses intrude 5KM in Barahoti district in Uttaranchal & damage a bridge.

Chinese PLA in Uttarakhand's Barahoti, returns after damaging bridge

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/chinese-pla-in-uttarakhands-barahoti-returns-after-damaging-bridge/articleshow/86573930.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The incident on August 30 did not result in a face-off as PLA soldiers returned before they could be confronted. Over 100 soldiers and 55 horses transgressed over 5 km of Indian territory by crossing the Tun Jun La Pass, security establishment insiders told ET.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

Now that we've withdrawn from the Kailash range, the Chinese are back to their old tricks, with some new lessons learnt

1) Probing movements like the one above
2) Digging their heels in with more shelters for their troops
3) Overcoming their Air Force disadvantage by constructing new air-strips & hardened shelters
4) Reducing our Air Force advantage by inducting S-400s

We need to amp up our offensive game as well. Induct more Brahmos (especially the S-400 killer variety), induct SAAWs & penetrators to take out aircraft inside hardened shelters, Rudram series (SEAD), LCH, Helina & Akash induction. Must have an accelerated test+induction process. The next Galwan is around the corner - as soon as the Chinese believe that they have nullified our advantages.

Infra work is going great on our side. Weapons induction is good in patches.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Mort Walker »

Sonugn wrote:Around 100 Chinese with with 50 horses intrude 5KM in Barahoti district in Uttaranchal & damage a bridge.

Chinese PLA in Uttarakhand's Barahoti, returns after damaging bridge

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/chinese-pla-in-uttarakhands-barahoti-returns-after-damaging-bridge/articleshow/86573930.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The incident on August 30 did not result in a face-off as PLA soldiers returned before they could be confronted. Over 100 soldiers and 55 horses transgressed over 5 km of Indian territory by crossing the Tun Jun La Pass, security establishment insiders told ET.
This isn't one of the areas of mutual disengagement. No reason why PLA troops can't be shot dead in such locations.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Sonugn »

Mort Walker wrote:
This isn't one of the areas of mutual disengagement. No reason why PLA troops can't be shot dead in such locations.
This transgression was first reported by locals.

CCP thugs stayed for 3 hours & then went back.

They were gone by the time our troops got there. Timed pin prick operation.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by AshishA »

Sonugn wrote:Around 100 Chinese with with 50 horses intrude 5KM in Barahoti district in Uttaranchal & damage a bridge.

Chinese PLA in Uttarakhand's Barahoti, returns after damaging bridge

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/chinese-pla-in-uttarakhands-barahoti-returns-after-damaging-bridge/articleshow/86573930.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The incident on August 30 did not result in a face-off as PLA soldiers returned before they could be confronted. Over 100 soldiers and 55 horses transgressed over 5 km of Indian territory by crossing the Tun Jun La Pass, security establishment insiders told ET.
I understand 100 soldiers. But 50 horses? They were using horses to come up to the bridge? Can someone post main parts of the article? It's behind a pay wall.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

You think that princelings can walk for 5 kms in such altitude?

They would have been sharing horses.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by yensoy »

Sonugn wrote:
Mort Walker wrote: This isn't one of the areas of mutual disengagement. No reason why PLA troops can't be shot dead in such locations.
This transgression was first reported by locals.

CCP thugs stayed for 3 hours & then went back.
They were gone by the time our troops got there. Timed pin prick operation.
No point all our soldiers going to the same place as the thugs. We should have pin pricked somewhere else knowing that the intruders were in one place.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Sonugn »

CCP walking over to our land marking it with cans, wrappers, writing on rocks etc. is not new.

But i believe, a damage to a bridge is new tactic.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by parshuram »

—-self deleted —-
Last edited by parshuram on 28 Sep 2021 13:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by parshuram »

Mort Walker wrote:
This isn't one of the areas of mutual disengagement. No reason why PLA troops can't be shot dead in such locations.
It is and Chinese lay claim over it since 1954. Has been conveyed to us in past over maps exchange

Any intruder should be shot on sight irrespective of the fact land is disputed or not .

Nearest fauji chowki is a tad far from area of transgression . Area has been apparently quite since long .
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cyrano »

Only a disproportionate response in this and several other sectors will be the right response.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by KL Dubey »

AshishA wrote:I understand 100 soldiers. But 50 horses? They were using horses to come up to the bridge? Can someone post main parts of the article? It's behind a pay wall.
They'd already eaten the donkeys.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Maria »

Isn't damaging a bridge an act of war?
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