India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Paul
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Paul »

Have our planners accounted for the possibility of PLA launching an out flanking attack on Chicken's neck through Bhutan. Like what the Germans did in WWI(attacking France through neutral countries) or WWII (outflanking Maginot line). XXXIII (3 Divisions) corps in Sikkim may not be enough to forestall a determined thrust through Bhutan.

Per SJha PLA already enjoys advantage in Eastern Arunachal.
Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

With 2 separate corps being available in the neighborhood sufficient forces exist in order to deal with such an eventuality.

Besides, a flanking move from Bhutan will allow India to nicely setup a welcoming committee through the mountain passes and roads the PLA will have to take in order to cutoff the chickens neck.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Armed forces have strong ISR capability. Objective is to be able to pre-empt PLA with larger numbers if needed.

GOI has Larger number of acclimatized troops at very short notice to move in rear. PLA not happy and asking for things like NFZ and pull back from rear.

PLA has deployed S400 at Hotan, which resulted in GOI replanning
—————————————

On TSP front reconnaissance reporting that some terror launch pads have been moved further away from border.
Larry Walker
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Larry Walker »

Cutting chicken's neck makes sense when PLA can sustain logistics to keep the blockade on and PLA has another route mapped and dominated to enter NE for physical capture. If PLA just sits on that thin slice of land - then what is stopping IA from occupying the mountain passes and cutoff their logistics ? If situation is so desperate and boundaries of smaller countries are all meaningless - then remember even Bangladesh has a so-called chicken's neck just south-east of ours and IA can go down that route to outflank PLA.
Prem Kumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

I hope, on the TSP front, just because there's a ceasefire, we don't stop covert activities across the border. Bot intel gathering and mini strikes.

TSP hasn't stopped sending jihadis just because there's a ceasefire
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Nothing has stopped from covert front. No major infiltration activity reported. But some hinterland strikes which GOI adequately responded to.

TSPA are busy with AfPak. They have kept some jihadis at launch pads just to keep pressure on IA.

GOI are continue to implement covert agreement with TSPA
Paul
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Paul »

Pratyush wrote:^^^

With 2 separate corps being available in the neighborhood sufficient forces exist in order to deal with such an eventuality.

Besides, a flanking move from Bhutan will allow India to nicely setup a welcoming committee through the mountain passes and roads the PLA will have to take in order to cutoff the chickens neck.
Agreed, however a division sized Para drop (in which PLA has the capability) will help them leapfrog the ambushing Indian army detachments. These are not unsurmountable problems.

The Germans were able to prevent the Dutch from flooding the dykes thru Para drops on Dutch fortresses, however at the same time a much larger para drop in Operation Market Garden failed in achieving its objective due to strong armoured units on the ground. Both of these drops took place in uncontested airspace.

To achieve this, the chinese will need complete air dominance over the Siliguri corridor to prevent a Turkey shoot. The IAF will have a critical role to play to prevent this scenario from unfolding in Chicken's neck.
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

The Jammu attack by TSPA is a message to GOI to stop certain activities - possibly a response for Hafiz Saeed attack.

Hafiz Saeed is useful alive to GOI. If they wanted him dead they would have killed him already…

TSPA chose not to break the ceasefire at LoC.

—————————-
GOI planning to release pictures of launch pads from recon and the commander of that particular jurisdiction to FATF, showing integration across Govt.
Deans
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Deans »

Paul wrote:
Pratyush wrote:^^^

With 2 separate corps being available in the neighborhood sufficient forces exist in order to deal with such an eventuality.

Besides, a flanking move from Bhutan will allow India to nicely setup a welcoming committee through the mountain passes and roads the PLA will have to take in order to cutoff the chickens neck.
Agreed, however a division sized Para drop (in which PLA has the capability) will help them leapfrog the ambushing Indian army detachments. These are not unsurmountable problems.
IA has the equivalent of a Corps surrpunding the chickens neck:
- 21 Mountain Div (IV corps) in Rangia, to the East.
- 20 Mountain Div (XXXIII corps) Binaguri
- 27 Mountain Div (XXXIII corps) Kalimpong

In addition there is 17 mountain Div (XXXIII corps) in Gangtok, for North Sikkim.

All PLA forces currently in East and South Tibet are smaller than this force. All Chinese units have to move along the S204 highway, which can be interdicted quite easily in the area between Sikkim and Bhutan and is unlikely to logistically support more than a division.
How does a PLA parachute force, which is hypothetically airdropped across the mountains into the Chickens neck, get supplied ?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by mody »

Some reports suggest IA has deployed additional large number of troops, upto an additional 50K across the China border. This is to send a very strong message to PLA and CPC after PLA exercises and activities in the deeper areas raised concerns, along with acts like deploying S400 systems at Hotan and all the other military infrastructure upgrades.
IA now possibly enjoys numerical superiority over the PLA at many of the points.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/wi ... d=msedgntp
Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

I have read with interest the news regarding the deployment of S400 in the Tibetan theatre of operations.

My conclusion is that the PRC is worried about the IAF taking the initiative and clobbering the PLAF.

It is a defensive measure which signals weakness in the TTO from PRC.

The question I am going to ask, is the IAF capable of feeding the S400 more target's then it can kill?

If yes, then it's deployment will not really matter to the out come of a determined offensive from the IAF.

If not, then we have to acquire such a capacity in order to get the job done. SAAW fitted with a sustainer motor or a micro gas turbine will be a step in the right direction.
Paul
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Paul »


All PLA forces currently in East and South Tibet are smaller than this force. All Chinese units have to move along the S204 highway, which can be interdicted quite easily in the area between Sikkim and Bhutan and is unlikely to logistically support more than a division.
How does a PLA parachute force, which is hypothetically airdropped across the mountains into the Chickens neck, get supplied ?
They have significant reserves in Chengdu and as (SJha said they enjoy an advantage in Eastern Arunachal, why he said that when we have more boots on the ground than they do I do not know). Eastern Command has a max of 9 divisions in the NE. Should PLA get serious about breaking thru the Chicken's neck, we will be left scrounging for additional units. As I said earlier, IA will be well served in raising another 4-5 divisions for the NE which will also act as an insurance against BD's 10 Divisions should they start getting ideas.

Looking at the bigger picture, I do not think India should make the mistake of downsizing the Army and go for more Tech heavy playtoys as suggested by several fanboys. We are surrounded by countries which have hundreds of thousands of troops and intentions can change any time. Even BD has almost 200K in army uniform. Should BD change their intentions we will be short of men in NE.
srai
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by srai »

^^^
There is no budget to increase the IA manpower. As is, the Mountain Strike corps has been sidelined due to lack of funds. With manpower and salaries, you also have to equip them with good gear and the entire logistical tail.

The IA already spends 80-90% of its budget on revenue expenditure (running costs like salaries, pensions, maintenance and operations).

Closure of military farms was a good cost saving move. There are probably quite a few more where efficiency could be gained by reducing legacy stuff.

Added later: 'non-essential' manpower reduction
Why Indian Army plans a reduction of 1,00,000 men?


To achieve that objective within limited budgets, the following steps are essential: Maintaining a healthy Teeth-to-Tail - or combat vs non-combat ratio The 'teeth-to-tail ratio', in military parlance, is the amount of military personnel it takes to supply and support each combat soldier.

Last edited by srai on 28 Jun 2021 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
ArjunPandit
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

Paul wrote:

All PLA forces currently in East and South Tibet are smaller than this force. All Chinese units have to move along the S204 highway, which can be interdicted quite easily in the area between Sikkim and Bhutan and is unlikely to logistically support more than a division.
How does a PLA parachute force, which is hypothetically airdropped across the mountains into the Chickens neck, get supplied ?
They have significant reserves in Chengdu and as (SJha said they enjoy an advantage in Eastern Arunachal, why he said that when we have more boots on the ground than they do I do not know). Eastern Command has a max of 9 divisions in the NE. Should PLA get serious about breaking thru the Chicken's neck, we will be left scrounging for additional units. As I said earlier, IA will be well served in raising another 4-5 divisions for the NE which will also act as an insurance against BD's 10 Divisions should they start getting ideas.

Looking at the bigger picture, I do not think India should make the mistake of downsizing the Army and go for more Tech heavy playtoys as suggested by several fanboys. We are surrounded by countries which have hundreds of thousands of troops and intentions can change any time. Even BD has almost 200K in army uniform. Should BD change their intentions we will be short of men in NE.
I listenned to a space by a paxi shahid raza, while he's an idiot dreaming of buying F35, SU35, J20, FC31 and S400 on Twitter. However, he pointed out that after the current PM of BD is gone, BDs will be rabidly anti indian and then an axis against india could be created. This sabka sath business has to end. We need to inflict another wound on paxtan for sure..cant fight 2 fronts. BDs will be better resourced, in the coming years than paxtan.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

India shifts 50,000 troops to China border in historic move.

India has redirected at least 50,000 additional troops to its border with China in a historic shift toward an offensive military posture against the world’s secondbiggest economy.

Although the two countries battled in the Himalayas in 1962, India’s strategic focus has primarily been Pakistan since the British left the subcontinent, with the long-time rivals fighting three wars over the disputed region of Kashmir. Yet since the deadliest India-China fighting in decades last year, PM Narendra Modi’s administration has sought to ease tensions with Islamabad and concentrate primarily on countering Beijing.

Over the past few months, India has moved troops and fighter jet squadrons to three distinct areas along its border with China, according to four people familiar with the matter. All in all, India now has roughly 200,000 troops focused on the border, two of them said, which is an increase of more than 40% from last year.

Both the Indian Army and a spokesman for the Prime Minister’s Office in New Delhi didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Whereas previously India’s military presence was aimed at blocking Chinese moves, the redeployment will allow Indian commanders more options to attack and seize territory in China if necessary in a strategy known as “offensive defence,” one of the people said. That includes a lighter footprint involving more helicopters to airlift soldiers from valley to valley along with artillery pieces like the M777 howitzer built by BAE Systems.

While it’s unclear how many troops China has on the border, India detected that the People’s Liberation Army recently moved additional forces from Tibet to the Xinjiang Military Command, which is responsible for patrolling disputed areas along the Himalayas. China is adding fresh runway buildings, bomb-proof bunkers to house fighter jets and new airfields along the disputed border in Tibet, two of the people said. Beijing also adding long-range artillery, tanks, rocket regiments and twin-engine fighters in the last few months, they said.

China’s Foreign Ministry “will not comment on unsubstantiated information,” a spokesperson said in response to questions.

The fear now is that a miscalculation could lead to an even deadlier conflict. Several recent rounds of military-diplomatic talks with China have made minimal progress toward a return to the quiet status quo that had prevailed along the border for decades.

“Having so many soldiers on either side is risky when border management protocols have broken down,” said D. S. Hooda, a lieutenant general and former Northern Army commander in India. “Both sides are likely to patrol the disputed border aggressively. A small local incident could spiral out of control with unintended consequences.”

The northern region of Ladakh — where India and China clashed several times last year — has seen the largest increase in troop levels, three of the people said, with an estimated 20,000 soldiers including those once engaged in antiterrorism operations against Pakistan now deployed in the area. The reorientation means India at all times will have more troops acclimatised to fight in the high-altitude Himalayans, while the number of troops solely earmarked for the western border with Pakistan will be reduced.

India has also obtained an offensive capability along the southern Tibetan plateau near the center of the border. In that more populated area, regular soldiers outfitted with machine guns have joined lightly armed paramilitary officers, the people said.

In the far eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh, where most of India’s border forces had been located and where much of the 1962 India-China war played out, newly acquired French-made Rafale fighter jets armed with long-range missiles are being deployed to support the boots on the ground, the people said.

The Indian Navy is also taking action, putting more warships along key sea lanes for longer durations. Its efforts include studying energy and trade flows in and out of China, according to an Indian Navy official who asked not to be identified, citing rules for speaking to the media.

The manoeuvring follows a period of relative calm after a summer of fighting last year that saw India lose control over about 300 square kilometers of land along the disputed mountainous terrain, Bloomberg reported. The worst clash in June left 20 Indian and four Chinese soldiers dead.

For Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the shift comes as the pandemic ravages India’s hinterland and the economy contracts by the worst in four decades, leaving less money for defence. At the same time, India is stepping up security cooperation with fellow Quad partners — the U.S., Japan and Australia — to gain leverage against China.

“The crisis over the last year has brought home the reality to India’s decision makers that China presents the biggest strategic challenge in the future, and it has led to shifting the attention away from Pakistan,” Sushant Singh, a senior fellow at the Centre for Policy Research and visiting lecturer at Yale University said. “As this plays out fully, it will alter the geopolitics of the region significantly.”

Still, despite India’s strategic shift and the troop movements, China retains an advantage along the border, said Sana Hashmi, a visiting fellow at the Taipei-based Taiwan-Asia Exchange Foundation.

“The economic and military asymmetry will remain in place,” she said. “And there is a long way to go for India to bridge this asymmetry.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Looks like there will be a response to drone strikes by GOI. Some sort of action due soon.
ArjunPandit
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

this seems to be a move to block any chinese designs..50k troops can't be moved just like that..must have been in works for some time..the roads must be buzzing with convoys...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cyrano »

The window for PLA to make come mischief and create some situation is for the next 6-8 weeks before weather turns worse. India either has reliable intelligence that something is being planned or is acting pre-emptively.

In either case this is an excellent move. The cost and risk of doing mischief has been increased manyfold for PLA, which they can neither respond to nor ignore easily.

If they want to attempt any incursion or offensive (to avenge Galwan for ex) they need to bring more acclimatised men and needed materials and despite doing so, it will be more risky against a reinforced IA.

Even if they simply want to match IA's mobilisation in a defensive posture, they still need to do the above. In any case, their supply lines will be stretched and strained. Their supply of "one child little princes" isn't inexhaustible.

If PLA matches IA's mobilisation by bringing 50k more troops, which it more or less has to over the next few weeks, then they may also have to support them through winter - much more arduous for them than for it is for IA.

They cannot ignore IA's mobilisation because they know India has enough and more elements on its side to take back what is rightfully hers, and any such territorial loss after last year's botched operations will threaten Xitler directly.

The fun part is, the PLA monkey is being compelled to reach for the banana in a jar to use a favourite BRF analogy. Like Pakis have dug themselves into an inextricable hole with their Kashmir obsession, it seems it will be China's turn now to get sucked into a costly and risky posture on its border with India from which it cant extricate itself.

IA can just repeat the "+50K troops" a couple of more times to squeeze PLA nuts again and again without firing a shot ! Fantastic !!!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by VinodTK »



Gravitas: India now has close to 200,000 soldiers on the China border
ChanakyaM
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ChanakyaM »

LakshmanPST wrote:I think China will actually fight a war with India...

For a country to be taken seriously, it needs to fight an actual war...
If Xi really wants to prove that China is a military power that means business, they need to fight a war and win it... Fancy parades, polished equipment or propaganda videos are not enough... The only way to earn respect in a jungle is to fight and win...

China can not fight Japan, SoKo or Taiwan for now, as that will involve USA... There are no issues with other countries which would really require a full scale war... Also, other countries, barring Russia and India, do not really have a sizeable army...
They do not want to spoil their relations with Russia for now... That leaves India...

India has a sizeable & experienced army, shares a land border and at the sametime located far away from their population centres, has an unresolved dispute involving signifiant land area and a country that has the potential to rival China in future...

Winning against India in a war will give China immense respect and the reputation of a military superpower that can truly rival USA...
At the sametime, defeat against India or even a stalemate would be huge loss of face... It has the potential of triggering a new Civil war in China...

The thing is, if China truly wants to be taken seriously as a military power, they need to win a war against India... Though a loss would be devastating to them, they need to take that risk... They have no other option...

I personally believe this will be the reason why China will indeed fight India... Unlike popular opinion, the Chinese will take the risk to cement their position in the New World Order...
Do we still have the agreement with Russia that they will intervene/help in case of external aggression ?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

LakshmanPST wrote:
The thing is, if China truly wants to be taken seriously as a military power, they need to win a war against India... Though a loss would be devastating to them, they need to take that risk... They have no other option...

I personally believe this will be the reason why China will indeed fight India... Unlike popular opinion, the Chinese will take the risk to cement their position in the New World Order...
Forget wining a war against India, even a drawn out war with no clear result where China and India would have possession of each others land (bound to happen) would be a major lose of face for China.

China will not take that risk and will not fight a war with India unless it has planned something really really big with surprise attacks in all three sectors or if it has planned to make a stretched India fight a 2 front war.
Vips
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

ChanakyaM wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:I think China will actually fight a war with India...

For a country to be taken seriously, it needs to fight an actual war...
If Xi really wants to prove that China is a military power that means business, they need to fight a war and win it... Fancy parades, polished equipment or propaganda videos are not enough... The only way to earn respect in a jungle is to fight and win...

China can not fight Japan, SoKo or Taiwan for now, as that will involve USA... There are no issues with other countries which would really require a full scale war... Also, other countries, barring Russia and India, do not really have a sizeable army...
They do not want to spoil their relations with Russia for now... That leaves India...

India has a sizeable & experienced army, shares a land border and at the sametime located far away from their population centres, has an unresolved dispute involving signifiant land area and a country that has the potential to rival China in future...

Winning against India in a war will give China immense respect and the reputation of a military superpower that can truly rival USA...
At the sametime, defeat against India or even a stalemate would be huge loss of face... It has the potential of triggering a new Civil war in China...

The thing is, if China truly wants to be taken seriously as a military power, they need to win a war against India... Though a loss would be devastating to them, they need to take that risk... They have no other option...

I personally believe this will be the reason why China will indeed fight India... Unlike popular opinion, the Chinese will take the risk to cement their position in the New World Order...
Do we still have the agreement with Russia that they will intervene/help in case of external aggression ?
Chankya saar you serious? Russia helping India in case of external aggression by China. No way.

-India will be lucky if Russia continues supplying us spares/stores in case of a war with China.

-Under the pretext of Friendship and neutral observer Russia will be angling to again play the duplicitous role for a 1965 Tashkent redux.

-Inspite of an agreement/undestanding, Russia took the flimsiest excuse not to help Armenia in its war with Azerbaijan/Turkey.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by srai »

Why take the risk and go to war when propaganda is enough?
Vips wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:
The thing is, if China truly wants to be taken seriously as a military power, they need to win a war against India... Though a loss would be devastating to them, they need to take that risk... They have no other option...

I personally believe this will be the reason why China will indeed fight India... Unlike popular opinion, the Chinese will take the risk to cement their position in the New World Order...
Forget wining a war against India, even a drawn out war with no clear result where China and India would have possession of each others land (bound to happen) would be a major lose of face for China.

China will not take that risk and will not fight a war with India unless it has planned something really really big with surprise attacks in all three sectors or if it has planned to make a stretched India fight a 2 front war.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cain Marko »

Paul wrote:We need to inflict another wound on paxtan for sure..cant fight 2 fronts. BDs will be better resourced, in the coming years than paxtan.
THe Pakis just provided an opportunity with the Jammu Airport fiasco. Use it to devastating effect imho.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cain Marko »

shyamd wrote:Looks like there will be a response to drone strikes by GOI. Some sort of action due soon.
High time. "Maukey pey Chauka"...such opportunities don't come everyday.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Paul »

@AdityaRajKaul
Since last night several drones apparently spotted between 1am and 4am in Jammu. First drone was spotted in Kaluchak cantonment. Second drone spotted in Ratnuchak cantonment. Third drone spotted near Kunjwani.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

Paul wrote:
@AdityaRajKaul
Since last night several drones apparently spotted between 1am and 4am in Jammu. First drone was spotted in Kaluchak cantonment. Second drone spotted in Ratnuchak cantonment. Third drone spotted near Kunjwani.

If these are RC drones then the point of origin of controlling signals can easily be identified and counter measures taken by ESM measures from both the Indian army and the IAF.

If these are not radio controlled, then we have a different problem at hand.

Let's see what happens.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

The Pakis being Pakis have again shown their hand too early, allowing us to develop countermeasures. Solutions will be found, if GPS signals can be jammed these can be Jammed, first we need to learn more about them, then atleast in critical areas like Jammu airbase have IR/ UV(MAWS) based Cameras which should be able to passively detect these from 5Km, and depending on the type of drone can be brought down by 12.7 mm, Bofors AAA or Short range SAM, but we can't defend every Bunker, fuel depo etc. For that we need to take the punishment to the enemy where out Motor/Artillery or our own drones take out Paki Assets- i.e miltary equipment. through Satellite, ISTAR, UAV we should have better information on enemy rear areas and be able to take Miltary vehicles, Paki stock of Ammo, Missiles, Fuel should all be destroyed. Their local production is negligible, so imagine having to import 200-300 Hino trucks, Artillery shells, steel and other material for motors. Similarly destroy any Paki army aviation Assets, helicopters, along with casualties.

The attrition on troops, morale equipment, another 5 Billion USD will go into Paki defence, which will reduce education, Highways, Paki railways will go into deeper shit.

Paki economy will go into full time stress, 20Km on their side of border should have no electricity telecom equipment, road infra etc. their Population will automatically start moving westwards.

But keep the pressure, so Pakis export wood, Food and slowly put themselves in further stress.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Lisa »

Punishment is cheaper than countermeasures. Why is everyone so fixated in spending tax payers monies to deal with these terrorists? Just punish them. Let them be reactive. Terrorists send fire bombing balloons to Israel, Israel bombs them for 2 days running. No more balloons. You have to change your outlook for being on the defence to being on the offence. India can afford this strategy, the pukis cannot. Why are so many people willing to give these terrorist the benefit of doubt?

Same strategy for 40 years and no relief and it appears that there no wish to change from this failed idea. Why?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

Finally news trickling out from the WMCC with PRC last week. Looks like GOI pressured PRC to discuss the East Ladakh issue despite PRC refusing to discuss it. Some progress has been made and looks like both parties have decided to push the issue down to local military level (AGAIN!) this time to focus on Gogra and Hot Springs. Therefore mil to mil talks to take place soon. GOI had decided to stop mil to mil talks after the last one ended up with PLA telling IA opposite number "be happy with what you got".

Looking forward to some chai biskoot session with similar result....

Meanwhile in Beijing 100 year CPC anniversary celebrations have kicked off. Can't see PLA taking any steps with this back drop.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

This is a dangerous time, perfect for them to gin up patriotic fervor by getting into an armed clash with India.

They can easily sell it as teaching a lesson to an insolent neighbor. That's has decided to disrespect the auspicious occasion of the parties centenary celebrations.
Deans
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Deans »

Paul wrote:

All PLA forces currently in East and South Tibet are smaller than this force. All Chinese units have to move along the S204 highway, which can be interdicted quite easily in the area between Sikkim and Bhutan and is unlikely to logistically support more than a division.
How does a PLA parachute force, which is hypothetically airdropped across the mountains into the Chickens neck, get supplied ?
They have significant reserves in Chengdu and as (SJha said they enjoy an advantage in Eastern Arunachal, why he said that when we have more boots on the ground than they do I do not know). Eastern Command has a max of 9 divisions in the NE.
PLA does not have numerical superiority at any point along the LAC - in terms of deployable forces.
The TOTAL number of infantry brigades in the entire PLA is 37 (2 each in their 13 group armies + 8 in Xinjiang and 3 in Tibet). The number of
tanks and mechanised brigades are less relevant, as they cannot be deployed in strength except in the 2 places in east Ladakh where they (and our tank regiments) are already present.

We have 12 infantry/mountain divisions tasked almost exclusively for the LAC. They comprise 36 infantry/mountain brigades. We are not inferior
in numbers even if the entire PLA is thrown against us. Keep in mind that when defending in the mountains PLA needs far more than the generally assumed 3:1 ratio to dislodge us.
We are worse off in terms of artillery, missiles & modern tech, which we are bridging.
Specifically on Sikkim/Chicken's neck and Arunachal, Rohit Vats and Shiv provide the best analysis I've seen.

The second part of any analysis is logistics. All possible axis (there are 6 of them across the LAC) for the PLA to advance against us,
cannot sustain more than 2 divisions - assuming there is no interdiction of the single highway and rail line for which all possible axis of advance have to depend on.
S_Madhukar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by S_Madhukar »

Our retribution should be such every time that such tactical ingenuity and courage to try anything new - drones or otherwise should be forever discouraged in the Baki ranks and folks who think such would have to be weeded out internally to save H&D… This should also give us the impetus to deploy our own drones and let them to do the targeting since we always believe in “proportional” responses :P
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vadivel »

Pak defence installations edging closer to International Border with India

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... dia/777395
Shankas
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Shankas »

Pakis are running out of funds and the shelf life of their terrorist is now 4-weeks.
They are buying and using Chinese toy drones on Alibaba to drop firecrackers.
This is akin to what my school mate did way back, that is piss into a Nirodh and fling it from the second floor on to Mr. Mishra our bully of a Hindi teacher.

These types of actions are not what IA should be paying attention to or wasting their time on.

Instead I propose we create a competition for the Indian youths titled "Target Pakhanastan"

Project Title: Target Pakhanastan
Project Scope:
Design and develop a drone delivery system that will be able to do the following
1) Autonomously fly at an altitude of 1000+ meter for a round trip distance of 20+ Km
2) Drone must have flying and loitering endurance ability of 1+ hour
3) Drone must be equipped with a HD camera that can capture high Resolution Images (Infrared camera is bonus)
4) Dorne must be able to carry a 500g payload that must be releasable remotely onto target

Project Task:
1) Autonomously fly with 500g of fresh feces of your choice (Pig, Cow, human, etc.) across the western border.
2) Identify target terrorist, pak army man, pak politician, etc.
3) Drop the load, live stream or film dropping of the load
4) Bonus points for capturing sounds including the choicest of galis and
5) Post successful operations video on social media

Benefits:
1) We will have some of the brightest young minds horning their tech skills on Autonomous Drones, Targeting, GPS, AI, Video and Audio Editing, etc.
2) When war starts, these trained drone army youths, within 30 min, will deliver hot breakfast of choice to our soldiers parked in the outskirts of Lahore.


(Pakhana) पाख़ाना meaning in hindi
1. मल त्याग के लिए बना स्थल; शौचालय; (लेटरिन) 2. टट्टी; विष्ठा; मल​।

Any takers and funders?
yensoy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by yensoy »

Vadivel wrote:Pak defence installations edging closer to International Border with India
https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... dia/777395
In related news, Pakis constructing targets closer to India.
ArjunPandit
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

yensoy wrote:
Vadivel wrote:Pak defence installations edging closer to International Border with India
https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... dia/777395
In related news, Pakis constructing targets closer to India.
this is a trend going on since the days cold start was announced. Even if we dont have a start hot or cold. We can inflict heavy damage on them. But that is something they have to live to save their hinds
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

Guys I notice a lot of noise and time pass posts in this thread. Please don't do that here.
Try to scan the media for news reports and bring them here so they can be analyzed.
Lots of people see this thread and what we get is drivel.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by vera_k »

How British imperial history does (and doesn't) shape the Sino-Indian border dispute
Then in 2019, the Indian government did what Moorcroft had suggested two centuries earlier — it took Ladakh under direct control, separating it from neighboring Kashmir after effectively annulling the autonomy of Jammu and Kashmir state. Gardner writes that imperial Britain regularly considered taking Ladakh under direct control because of its anomalous status, given its traditional links to both Tibet and Kashmir. In the end, it left well alone. The Indian move elicited sharp criticism from Beijing and likely shaped China’s approach last year to the disputed frontier.
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