India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Anujan
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Anujan »

ramana wrote:Still not a good idea to discuss US politics in this thread.

BTW Pak releasing the video of Abhinandan shows some resistance to the ceasefire in the Pak military.

For all, we know they will be like that scorpion and the duck and break the agreement.

YashG, Please use the strat forum where there are a couple of threads.

Already the usual suspects (Ezaj Hidehere etc) are crowing about how India capitulated because of a two front situation and signed a peace agreement. I wouldnt wipe my musharraf with the paper their opinions are printed on, because usually it goes along the lines of

"POLITICAL INSTABILITY IN AL-BAKISTAN, ECONOMY IS IN SHAMBLES, FOREIGN POLICY IS A DISASTER BECAUSE SOMEHOW WE PISSED OFF SAUDIS, US, *AND* CHINA ...... IS INDIA GOING TO SURRENDER CASHMERE BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID HOW TFTA WE ARE?!!!!"

They cannot stomach the cognitive dissonance of being all TFTA and regularly getting their musharraf handed to them by SDREs next door. I think celebrating the Abhinandan episode is an attempt to use a fig leaf to cover up the fact that Pakistan realized permanent enmity at this juncture does not suit their national interest.

When has Pakistan every come out and said "We didnt have a choice, this is the best deal we could get". Even after "with us or against us" speech and brown-panting followed by a swift GUBO, Pakistanis called themselves "Front line Al-lie against terror that even massa depends on".

SDREs shouldn't take the bait and dhoti shiver about Pakistan's bravado. AD was involved in this ceasefire and he is the SDRE of all SDREs. And I suspect he knows a thing or two about pakistan, being a Pakistani and having lived there for a long time :mrgreen:

5-10 years of economic growth and domestic defense industry complex -- and Pakistan will cease to be a major issue. I think that is inevitable and has been the case for the past 15 years. Pakistan as an emotional issue is just being sustained by the old fogies who have fond memories of growing up in Lahore.

I am not exaggerating, but even simple statistics about Pakistan amaze me. Suraj posted in the other thread about how the budgets of 4 Indian states each were bigger than Pakistan's budget. Remember that significant percentage of taxes collected in the state goes to the center, so going by actual GDP, 6 Indian states are probably bigger economies than all of Bakistan. In ten years, Kerala will have a bigger GDP than Bakistan, so Bangalore in Kerala will be as important city as Karachi. They do not have a single company capable of manufacturing vaccines! I am not even talking about inventing them, I am talking about manufacturing them! So much so that Pakistan's actual strategy (read TFT) is not to import vaccines, but to petition the UN for donations!

If the old fogies with fond memories of growing up in lahore were around, we'd be sending our first batches to Pakistan as a "good will gesture". But they are dying off now....
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

Eijaz Haider and other RAPE are great at self-delusion.

It's instructive that Moeed Youssef disassociated himself from the CFA. Shows his fear of lamp post.

As I said on Twitter it's just a coincidence that the Chinese retreat and Pak CFA were around the same time.

Also, negotiations with China for the rest of the areas are still going on.
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

I tweeted:
PRC dilemma in Pangong Tso was getting caught in the position of a boxer up against an opponent with both a good left hook and a good right cross. The IA force deployment left them staring at certain defeat every which way.

Xi JinPing decided to teach a lesson after Modi- Abe summit in late 2016 declaring Indo-Pacific collaboration. Lots of moves, wolf warrior group, cold-weather training in Canada. The 2020 year of Pandemic was picked. They did spring war games, told Russia just games, and diverted troops to Ladakh as they could justify. Leh was the objective. The timing was low water runoff from snowmelt allowing fording Galwan river. The 16 Bihar and 3rd Punjab action disrupted the plan and India was alerted. And quickly reinforced. The big game-changer was redeploying 1st Corps to Northern Command for now suddenly the PA was facing 300K.

This is what I mean by boxer with a left hook and a right cross. So the opponent gets hammered with either hand.


Hope it makes sense to our guests also
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

krishna_krishna wrote:
ramana wrote:Still not a good idea to discuss US politics in this thread.

BTW Pak releasing the video of Abhinandan shows some resistance to the ceasefire in the Pak military.

For all, we know they will be like that scorpion and the duck and break the agreement.
+200 to both the points, I can estimate the timing when this would occur, summer when there is campaign season in cashmere when tango's and porki army have high BP.

I also believe porkies want to behave as nice kids temporarily since Afghanistan is also under evaluation where the final call of recalling those 2K troops that are leftover today. Porkies really want their western front to be secure and want massa out of there and they can sense the finish line.

Run a poll to get the wisdom of the crowds. Put a few choices. Say 5.

My guess is their chain is held by the US now and until their FP objectives are met, they won't release the chain.
yensoy
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by yensoy »

"Civilized" discussions in English speaking media hides the reality that lamp-posts are being readied in the Urdu media:


This is going to be fun to watch as it unfolds. Let's get Cdr Jadhav back.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

I wonder if the CT that Pak's Aim120 are GPS locked to Pak areas is correct.

It should not be difficult for US to lock the Aim120 to hit target, only if IAF gets cross LC. Even if this is not the case, Paks will very suspicious that the 5 Aim120 fired on to our side, didn't hit any target.

Only WC Abhi, who crossed the LC got hit.
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

nam wrote:I wonder if the CT that Pak's Aim120 are GPS locked to Pak areas is correct.

It should not be difficult for US to lock the Aim120 to hit target, only if IAF gets cross LC. Even if this is not the case, Paks will very suspicious that the 5 Aim120 fired on to our side, didn't hit any target.

Only WC Abhi, who crossed the LC got hit.
I don't think AAMs use GPS updates.
Besides radar guidance primary mode.
The aircraft might have GPS updates and won't have military code for a foreign INS.

Also
The AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM (pronounced AM-ram), is an American beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) capable of all-weather day-and-night operations. Designed with a 7-inch (180mm) diameter form-and-fit factor, and employing active transmit-receive radar guidance instead of semi-active receive-only radar guidance, it has the advantage of being a fire-and-forget weapon when compared to the previous generation Sparrow missiles...

After launch, if the firing aircraft or surrogate continues to track the target, periodic updates—such as changes in the target's direction and speed—are sent from the launch aircraft to the missile, allowing the missile to adjust its course, via actuation of the rear fins, so that it is able to close to a self-homing distance where it will be close enough to "catch" the target aircraft in the basket (the missile's radar field of view in which it will be able to lock onto the target aircraft, unassisted by the launch aircraft).

Not all armed services using the AMRAAM have elected to purchase the mid-course update option, which limits AMRAAM's effectiveness in some scenarios. The RAF initially opted not to use mid-course update for its Tornado F3 force, only to discover that without it, testing proved the AMRAAM was less effective in beyond visual range (BVR) engagements than the older semi-active radar homing BAE Skyflash weapon—the AIM-120's own radar is necessarily of limited range and power compared to that of the launch aircraft.
Most likely the Paki AMAbduls did not have this feature and could not guide it into the target basket area.

So let us not overthink it.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

Per Joe Sameer's analysis, the F16s broke lock when the avengers charged at them. The Amraams at max range, without guidance from the launch aircraft are practically useless. The avengers would've deployed counter-measures as well. That's the reason all the Amraams ended up being duds
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

I am not sure if the ceasefire agreement was a good idea. Some reasons below:

1) We were almost never the ones to initiate CFVs. So, there isn't much to be gained by agreeing to a ceasefire.
2) It limits our response options. Even when a ceasefire is on, the Pukes can & will send terrorists across. So, we bump off a few @ LOC or the hinterland. How do we punish the Paki post that enabled this infiltration?
3) It can be argued that we can strengthen our defenses during a ceasefire. I think we are already doing a lot of that even when CFVs are ongoing. Not sure what kind of quantum jump we are thinking about
4) The reason Pukes wanted the ceasefire is because they're getting hammered, running low on ammo stocks, bleeding economically while they're in the FATF Grey list and have lost a significant # of jihadis in strikes like Balakot. They want breathing room to rest & regroup. Come June, when they may get out of the grey list & once unkil continues to re-arm them & give them more IMF loans, they'll be back to their usual behavior

We need to kick them when they're down, demolish their posts, gain territory now, conduct more surgical strikes etc to completely degrade their military.

We should also not let them divert troops to their Western borders to confront the Talibs & Balochs. If anything, now is the time to cultivate more assets within Pakistan and hammer them from both sides till they implode.

We still haven't punished them for pushing drugs into Punjab, stoking the Khalistani fire etc

Frankly baffled by this decision. Betrays a lack of "endgame mindset" vis-a-vis Pakistan. We seem happy with some "temporary calm".
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by sanjaykumar »

They are not forcing the ones in Punjab into taking those drugs.

There is a problem with the culture. It is counterproductive to remain in denial.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

DRDO's 'Sindhu Netra' surveillance satellite deployed in space, will help to monitor Indian Ocean Region.

In a boost for the country's surveillance capabilities to monitor activities of both military warships and merchant shipping in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR), the 'Sindhu Netra' satellite developed by a team of young scientists from Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was successfully deployed in space on Sunday.

The satellite was launched using the Indian Space Research Organisation's (ISRO) PSLV-C51 which took off from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh.

The Sindhu Netra satellite has been developed by the young scientists of the DRDO and is capable of automatically identifying the warships and merchant ships operating in the IOR. The satellite has also started communicating with the ground systems, government sources told ANI.

The satellite, if required, can also help in carrying out surveillance in specific areas such as the South China Sea or the pirate-infested areas near the Gulf of Aden and the African coast, the sources said.

They added that the Sindhu Netra is one of the first in the series of satellites that would help the nation in enhancing its surveillance capabilities on land in areas such as the Ladakh region with China and the border areas with Pakistan.

Seeking to keep a closer eye on the activities of the Chinese military both near the Indian territory as well as in its depth areas all along the 4,000 kilometre Line of Actual Control (LAC), the Indian security agencies feel there is a requirement of four to six dedicated satellites which can help them keep a check on the adversary's moves.

Along with the setting up of the Defence Space Agency, the government also created a defence space research organisation to look after the ability to protect space assets from being attacked by adversaries there. The space arm of the defence forces would also be bolstered significantly in near future.
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

ramana wrote:
YashG wrote:
The central theme of the article is India could do it because of defense cooperation. That premise seems right and wise. In his pathbreaking mega epic - 'Guns, Germs & Steel', Jared Diamond argues that east-west axis of knowledge allowed eurasian civilizations to stay ahead in military tech. Knowledge transfer axis are far more powerful over time than we realise - same might be happening for India. Babones often writes insightfully.

Historically we were always powerful economically but our miltech always lagged. When first wave of islamic invaders came to India they had better warfare tech than natives. In the next wave very same rulers, the Lodis got dislodged by a new eurasian invade babur. Because he had better artillery! Next the very same mughals got defeated by a new eurasian invader - Nader Shah. Why? Cz he had better artillery. Then finally the natives lost to British again. Why? Again artillery tech. East-West axis always kept eurasian miltech state of art.

Finally!!! Indian miltech is now state of art cz now the internet axis does what the geographical axis did back then. So I could safely say our miltech has for first time in many millenniums, broken free of the limitations of east-west axis and we're now state of art.
Very good observation that what India has now is best available arms.

And also usage is innovative. Services are not hung with usual need new formations for every challenge.
Eg. Using SFF to occupy the peaks, the redeployment 1st Corps which is historically for strike across IB into Pakjab, and many other things.
Yes new formations will be raised but it won't be wring hands till that time.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Suraj »

Anujan wrote:5-10 years of economic growth and domestic defense industry complex -- and Pakistan will cease to be a major issue. I think that is inevitable and has been the case for the past 15 years. Pakistan as an emotional issue is just being sustained by the old fogies who have fond memories of growing up in Lahore.

I am not exaggerating, but even simple statistics about Pakistan amaze me. Suraj posted in the other thread about how the budgets of 4 Indian states each were bigger than Pakistan's budget.
:) Not all states have announced their latest budgets but I'll use estimates where they've been quoted. As of this year, UP ($75 billion), Maharashtra ($62 billion est) and Tamil Nadu ($46 billion est) have budgets exceeding the Pakistan federal budget ($45 billion). West Bengal ($38 billion est) and Karnataka ($36 billion) are just behind. In five years, all of these states and potentially Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan will have overtaken Pakistan. The federal budget of India will be approx $1 trillion then.

The difference in resources can be seen in the metros in operation. Even though India doesn't invest much in cities due to rural vote demands, 13 cities have metros, another 8 have active metro construction and another 10 have approved metros under planning. India has more ~750km of metro systems and 1100kms under active construction right now. Delhi Metro (390km operational + 70km under construction) has a mileage almost as much as London Underground and New York Subway (both 400km) though DMRC is 18 years old and the other two are from 19th century. India has more metro systems than Japan, US and Germany, second only to China.

Only Lahore has a metro, since last year and it's smaller than Kochi and Nagpur metros. Karachi, Multan, Isloo/Pindi have bus rapid transit system being built. The entire Pakistan Railway operates fewer locomotives than Southern Railway. They can't afford anything more; 250 million people and a budget less than Tamil Nadu's.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by krishna_krishna »

ramana wrote:[

Run a poll to get the wisdom of the crowds. Put a few choices. Say 5.

My guess is their chain is held by the US now and until their FP objectives are met, they won't release the chain.
Porkies will never be in black list and will never be out of grey list i.e till their economy improves/dependent upon foreign aid.

Please see below and add one more choice or edit. Not sure how to create poll here or I have access to do it :

"The reason for Terroristan to have agreed to hold a ceasefire at LOC with India on anniversary of balakot strikes by India, including mention of all “Core issues” in the joint statement:

1) American new administration pressure on both countries for peace.
2) American review of Afghanistan policy to have remainder 2K troops recalled. If Pakistan agrees to have peace with India on Kashmir, then will get quid pro quo on afghan front?
3) Pakistan not at all economically sound to have any active campaign with both India and Baluchistan, i.e financially weaker and waiting to get better financially?
4) India’s recent victory against Chinese in skirmishes caused Pakistan to force reconciliation temporarily

5)"
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

From Koo:

As of this year, UP ($75 billion), Maharashtra ($62 billion est) and Tamil Nadu ($46 billion est) have budgets exceeding the Pakistan federal budget ($45 billion). West Bengal ($38 billion est) and Karnataka ($36 billion) are just behind.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by LakshmanPST »

All these days I wondered what the red line on Google Earth meant... Most of us thought that it is the LAC, but it is clearly not...
Based on H S Panag's article shared in Neutering China Thread, we can now conclude that the red line on Google Earth is infact the 1959 claim line of China (or a slightly modified version)...
Actual LAC and actual ground positions are not marked on Google Earth...

It makes sense because Google Earth generally marks disputed territories and claims in Red , but never indicates control lines unless there is clear demarcation agreed by both sides (like LOC which is indicated in Orange)...

Also, based on the recent videos of Galwan River clash and further geo-location done by some ppl on Twitter, the LAC and probably PP14 is further upstream of the bend in Galwan river (the bend which most of us originally thought is PP14 and location of the clash)...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

LakshmanPST wrote:All these days I wondered what the red line on Google Earth meant... Most of us thought that it is the LAC, but it is clearly not...
Based on H S Panag's article shared in Neutering China Thread, we can now conclude that the red line on Google Earth is infact the 1959 claim line of China (or a slightly modified version)...
Actual LAC and actual ground positions are not marked on Google Earth...

It makes sense because Google Earth generally marks disputed territories and claims in Red , but never indicates control lines unless there is clear demarcation agreed by both sides (like LOC which is indicated in Orange)...

Also, based on the recent videos of Galwan River clash and further geo-location done by some ppl on Twitter, the LAC and probably PP14 is further upstream of the bend in Galwan river (the bend which most of us originally thought is PP14 and location of the clash)...
Where are the Red lines or Orange, this is available only for NRI accessing internet fron a serveroutside of India, resident Indians cannot see this.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by LakshmanPST »

Aditya_V wrote:
Where are the Red lines or Orange, this is available only for NRI accessing internet fron a serveroutside of India, resident Indians cannot see this.
No... Only Google Maps are country specufic...
Google Earth generally shows disputed areas in Red irrespective of the country...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Just checked Google earth, LOC and LAC/Claim line are not marked.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by LakshmanPST »

Aditya_V wrote:Just checked Google earth, LOC and LAC/Claim line are not marked.
I'm talking about Google Earth Desktop app for Windows... I guess you're talking about Mobile app...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Nope desktop/ laptop, only this post is from mobile. Posting again from Laptop, LOC/LAC/Claim lines not visible from India only International borders.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by LakshmanPST »

Aditya_V wrote:Nope desktop/ laptop, only this post is from mobile. Posting again from Laptop, LOC/LAC/Claim lines not visible from India only International borders.
Don't know...
I have always observed red lines for disputed territories and orange line for LAC on GE Desktop app (not google earth web site, but app)...
Infact, most ppl see that Red line and think it is on the ground LAC... Some ppl think it is Indian perception of LAC... It is neither...
It is Chinese claim line, which is more or less their 1959 claim...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Where are you located?
LakshmanPST
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by LakshmanPST »

Delhi...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Funny not visible when logging from Chennai, unless it is rerouting through a foreign server. Can anyone else see LAC/LOC when logging in from India? I have the same experience with Google earth

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by YashG »

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/28/us/p ... icity.html

This article is a big deal. In an event of war India could be crippled internally. Maharastra political leader Raut has also acknowledged the same.

Someone in the forum has said this wayback but I thought it was some conspiracy theory but I have now seen this being spoken by several reputed sources. It is quite concerning.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by williams »

YashG wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/28/us/p ... icity.html

This article is a big deal. In an event of war India could be crippled internally. Maharastra political leader Raut has also acknowledged the same.

Someone in the forum has said this wayback but I thought it was some conspiracy theory but I have now seen this being spoken by several reputed sources. It is quite concerning.
In war both the countries' grid can be destabilized. In fact the more developed you are the more you will suffer the damage. There were multiple grid stabilization exercises carried out last year to be prepared for this. This article want to paint China as some superior power. This is the age old trick to show yourself as a much bigger power when confronted with an enemy equal to your size :) The part that is interesting is how compromised is US media playing to the tune of Chinese propaganda. We need to give it to the Chinese on that front. But SDREs in the helm of our security is not going to dance to this tune. Ultimately propaganda needs to be backed by hard power and the will to fight. In those fronts the simple truth is the so called middle kingdom failed miserably. No amount of propaganda can hide that fact.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Anoop »

I wonder if the first deployment of Kalyani M4 is going to be in Burtse to negate the PLA's vehicular advantage in arriving at Y- junction. The speed, gradient, slide slope, approach angle etc all seem to fit in with the terrain requirement. And in contrast to the Tata Kestrel, it does not have a cannon which makes it suitable for policing/patrolling action along the LAC.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by YashG »

williams wrote:
YashG wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/28/us/p ... icity.html

This article is a big deal. In an event of war India could be crippled internally. Maharastra political leader Raut has also acknowledged the same.

Someone in the forum has said this wayback but I thought it was some conspiracy theory but I have now seen this being spoken by several reputed sources. It is quite concerning.
In war both the countries' grid can be destabilized. In fact the more developed you are the more you will suffer the damage. There were multiple grid stabilization exercises carried out last year to be prepared for this. This article want to paint China as some superior power. This is the age old trick to show yourself as a much bigger power when confronted with an enemy equal to your size :) The part that is interesting is how compromised is US media playing to the tune of Chinese propaganda. We need to give it to the Chinese on that front. But SDREs in the helm of our security is not going to dance to this tune. Ultimately propaganda needs to be backed by hard power and the will to fight. In those fronts the simple truth is the so called middle kingdom failed miserably. No amount of propaganda can hide that fact.
I would wish to believe this to be untrue. Like I did On this issue severalonths ago. But I will not want to make my wishes, my compass of analysis.

If anything, hacking prowess is not whatonly superior countries can do. North Korea does it successfully too at times. Openand democratic countries are more vulnerable to hacks due to the open nature - like India and we should go extra mile in safeguarding us.

Quad should fingerprint digital traffic packets arising from China and put it under surveillance. We can do more too. Even if fake, we should use this opportunity to overhaul.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by chetonzz »

off topic: maharashtra govt/ ministers are opposition to centre govt. thus 'gawar' ppl like Raut and Anil Deshmukh who doesnt know difference between computer virus and Bio virus - slinging mud on center saying they allowed china attack us
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Prithviraj CHauhan syndrome

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... r-7210214/
Speaking to a group of journalists at the 15 Corps Headquarters in Srinagar, Lt General Raju said, “We will definitely give it (the ceasefire) our best shot… to make it successful. If something is happening, we will not be trigger happy. I’m sure the good officers across the border will also make it a success.”

He said that in case of incidents along the Line of Control, as part of the agreement, both sides have established mechanisms where they can speak to each other — ‘hotline messages, both here locally as well as in Delhi”.
I hope this not true and some Chankyan nithi is followed here, if PA personal are frustrated they can take it out on civilians on thier side of the LOC, IA should give no quarter, we must use this time to learn more to quickly target them even if 1 bullet is fired , Cell phone towers, troop carrying trucks, parked helicopters, light plains, artillery guns, fuel dumps , ammo dumps, AtGM launching jeeps, radar sites, key bridges etc must be mapped out. Pakis must be made to pay.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by S_Madhukar »

I just hope we are expending our WW2 era ammo or Soviet ammo etc as well that is nearing expiry date and testing all our new Nag and other weapons once the ceasefire is over :rotfl: no point in just stocking up as we are only going to play this ludicrous game of Ceasefire no-ceasefire... come to think of it some old Mig21 frames packed with maal can also be thrown over ...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by RajeevK »

YashG wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/28/us/p ... icity.html

This article is a big deal. In an event of war India could be crippled internally. Maharastra political leader Raut has also acknowledged the same.

Someone in the forum has said this wayback but I thought it was some conspiracy theory but I have now seen this being spoken by several reputed sources. It is quite concerning.
It was more of a cascading effect.
As per Blame game begins between MSETCL, Tata Power over Mumbai power outage
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Waghmare termed it as an "unprecedented" event, where two of the four lines getting power to Kalwa sub-station got physically snapped -- one was under maintenance and the last one from Kharghar was manually shut on the day as there were sparks observed due to the extra load on Monday.
The islanding system would have saved the day for Mumbai, Waghmare said, adding that the system was specifically created to avoid a total breakdown in services and relies on Tata and Adani''s power generation.

However, two "major units" of Tata were not functional on the given day, Waghmare said, adding that Tata''s power stations are not in grid many a time or may have been under maintenance which delayed their coming on-board.

A 250-MW thermal unit of Adani also stopped generating power the same day at 1300 hrs, aggravating matters, he said.
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I guess if someone wants to, Adani can be blamed as well. Thankfully Ambani was not involved.
darshan
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by darshan »

Cyber threat is bit overblown if not more. Certainly utilities can be under threat and they may not even be that secured or using chinese components. However, in case of India, there are many other options at the disposal with 0.5 insider threat if one wanted things to stop working.

India certainly needs cyber chowkidars and plumbers to keep systems hardened but I'm not sure if the sky is falling here. There are tons of young people in India that can be turned into cyber tradesmen in trade school like education centers. Automated tools and even amateur hackers raid utilities all the time.

NYT probably should focus on chinese and Solarwind debacle.

For example in US,
What’s most interesting about the Florida water system hack? That we heard about it at all.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/02/wha ... it-at-all/
Stories about computer security tend to go viral when they bridge the vast divide between geeks and luddites, and this week’s news about a hacker who tried to poison a Florida town’s water supply was understandably front-page material. But for security nerds who’ve been warning about this sort of thing for ages, the most surprising aspect of the incident seems to be that we learned about it at all.
....
darshan
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by darshan »

Power Ministry Confirms Chinese State Sponsored Hackers Targeted Indian Power Centres, All Attacks Thwarted
https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/powe ... s-thwarted
...
However, the Indian government cyber agencies had already flagged warnings regarding this issue and hence the Chinese miscreants were thwarted successfully.

The government has refused to confirm or deny a New York Times report about a US cyber firm’s claim that Mumbai’s power outage in October 2020 was a result of a coordinated cyber-attack by China. However, the firm also states that this threat hadn’t resulted in any data breach as such.
...
Cain Marko
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cain Marko »

Aditya_V wrote:Prithviraj CHauhan syndrome

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... r-7210214/
Speaking to a group of journalists at the 15 Corps Headquarters in Srinagar, Lt General Raju said, “We will definitely give it (the ceasefire) our best shot… to make it successful. If something is happening, we will not be trigger happy. I’m sure the good officers across the border will also make it a success.”

He said that in case of incidents along the Line of Control, as part of the agreement, both sides have established mechanisms where they can speak to each other — ‘hotline messages, both here locally as well as in Delhi”.
I hope this not true and some Chankyan nithi is followed here, if PA personal are frustrated they can take it out on civilians on thier side of the LOC, IA should give no quarter, we must use this time to learn more to quickly target them even if 1 bullet is fired , Cell phone towers, troop carrying trucks, parked helicopters, light plains, artillery guns, fuel dumps , ammo dumps, AtGM launching jeeps, radar sites, key bridges etc must be mapped out. Pakis must be made to pay.
Exactly! I hope those in the corridors of decisions and power are on RED ALERT beneath the veneer of olive branch to ChiPak. Everytime such gestures are extended towards them, they respond with some treachery. I have never been more concerned about hot war than I am now! Next 3-6 months could be decisive.

Chipak know that Indian defences will only get stronger from here on...weakness is mostly till September. By then more Tejas and Rafale sqds should be ready and probly 1 battery of S400 as well. They will not get a better chance after that.
Last edited by Cain Marko on 02 Mar 2021 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
Y I Patel
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Y I Patel »

There’s a significance to the ceasefire being announced by the DGMOs instead of by the FS or some diplomat. This is in line with the negotiations on the East Ladakh standoff being conducted by Corps commanders. The big signal this gives is that the army will now drive the peace process, not some retired track thoo personality whose power derives from an unending series of peace talks.
Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

I was in talks with a power producer for the requirement for cyber insurance policy in India to deal with such an issue.

They responded that they don't have a any requirements for such an insurance. As the system's they are using don't have any connection with an external network and the USB devices are disabled by the it department before any system is plugged into the network.

The other concern was about software that came pre-installed on the computer. The response to that was that the monitoring program was a customised application devloped exclusively for the plant and that any OS updating was rolled out after testing by the IT department.

They seemed quite confident that they could not be hacked by anyone. Because they had no external network connection.

Take it for what it's worth.
arshyam
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by arshyam »

Yes, I was similarly informed by a guy in the know (works in power systems implementation) that the power grid management is air-gapped. He also told me that the Indian grid is very stable and resilient, and can handle some serious oscillations. The Modi-inspired 5 minutes lights out campaign during the lockdown was cited as an example of this resiliency.
shyamd
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shyamd »

The focus of IA and Special Forces is continued reconnaissance via physical and technical means on both borders.

On the Tibet border
Focus is now demonstrating presence on all areas of the border - through civilians/nomads, trekking, expeditions, routes charting by special forces (entry/exit). ARMEX-21 is an example.
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